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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 95. Go back in thread:
Posted by Justherself54 on March 10, 2008, at 22:14:13
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
Dinah, you said he hasn't had time to read admin in any detail..it doesn't take but one glance to know there's trouble..and not to respond to everyone is downright rude..
Posted by twinleaf on March 10, 2008, at 22:20:54
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight » Phoenix1, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:55:17
has become serious for me. I am very glad to hear that you have worked out your differences with Bob, Dinah. At the same time, there remain some important unaddressed questions for the rest of us, or at least for me. What caused the problem you had? I gather that it was new posting procedures which most of us don't know about. It seems strange to me that many of us on this site have been kept completely in the dark about these new procedures, about why you felt you had to leave, and, now, about why it is possible for you to return.
This has now gone far beyond you, Dinah. Because Bob has not responded to repeated requests for information, there has been a huge lost of trust and confidence in Babble on the part of many long-time posters. If there is never going to be an informative, mutually respectful clearing of the air, it could easily happen that, even as you are feeling able to return safely, many of the rest of us will never be able to feel that way, and will disappear permanently. You have probably noticed that very little posting is going on now: people just don't have the heart to do it any longer.
Posted by Phoenix1 on March 10, 2008, at 22:24:58
In reply to Our situation here....., posted by twinleaf on March 10, 2008, at 22:20:54
> has become serious for me. I am very glad to hear that you have worked out your differences with Bob, Dinah. At the same time, there remain some important unaddressed questions for the rest of us, or at least for me. What caused the problem you had? I gather that it was new posting procedures which most of us don't know about. It seems strange to me that many of us on this site have been kept completely in the dark about these new procedures, about why you felt you had to leave, and, now, about why it is possible for you to return.
>
> This has now gone far beyond you, Dinah. Because Bob has not responded to repeated requests for information, there has been a huge lost of trust and confidence in Babble on the part of many long-time posters. If there is never going to be an informative, mutually respectful clearing of the air, it could easily happen that, even as you are feeling able to return safely, many of the rest of us will never be able to feel that way, and will disappear permanently. You have probably noticed that very little posting is going on now: people just don't have the heart to do it any longer.Wow, twinleaf, well put. How do you stay so calm? I admire your response, and hope Bob answers these questions, but I doubt anyone will be satisfied with his answer. It will probably smug and 2 or 3 sentences long. I wish you the best.
Posted by muffled on March 10, 2008, at 22:26:43
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight » Toph, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 22:03:31
> I realize this is no longer about me. I still can't believe my leaving was that all that important. But I'd have to be an idiot not to see that it's taken on a life of its own. And a lot of reasons to be mad at Dr. Bob and Admin are in it.
>
> But you know, he surprised me tonight. Maybe he can surprise others too? Maybe he's more flexible than we give him credit for?* Dinah, as you know, this is not the first time we have had a go-round with Bob and his lack of communication.
I understand some lack of communication,but this is , as usu, over the top, again. I like babble better when Bobs not around much. However I do find his seeming lack of effective communication skills disheartening when I can see what an important place he holds here to many people. I fortunately seem to, for the most part, have been able to step back from him and not get caught up in his web. But not all are that fortunate, and like it or not, meaning to or not, Bob hurts those people. I think he needs to take some time to consider this phenomenon...or mebbe he is studying it???
But this keeps happening...over and over.
There is a recurring theme here...
If Bob truly DOES give a sh*t, maybe he will try to figger it out...or, more Boblike, wait for someone else to figger it and tell him perhaps.
Yes, he is a busy man, but like I have said before, he should not be running a website unless he is willing to care for it. If we were his kids, he would be considered to be abusing us with lack of care.
No, I do not think we need Bob all the time, if fact, the less Bob the better. But we need Bob too, cuz he is the only one who can actually change things here.
But then Bob won't change, but then Bob dissappears...
But then Bob never seems to come up with full answers.
He ignores direct questions.
Maybe he cares, but maybe he needs to give his baby to someone else, cuz he not got enuf time to properly care for it :-(
I dunno.
Maybe all will go back to 'normal' again...
But alot of people were hurt/triggered, yet again by Bobs lack of action.
Granted, if he were to post something....what might he post w/o further riling others...I'm not sure, but saying nothing doesn't seem to work, thats for sure.
Sad.
Just protect yourself from caring too much Dinah. Keep you eyes wide open round Bob, protect your heart.
M
Posted by muffled on March 10, 2008, at 22:28:49
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
if Bob ever showed some real humaness and vulnerability we'd proly forgive him in a heartbeat.
We a soft hearted lot here.
We just don't like getting hurt.
M
Posted by muffled on March 10, 2008, at 22:32:03
In reply to Our situation here....., posted by twinleaf on March 10, 2008, at 22:20:54
Posted by Toph on March 10, 2008, at 22:38:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight » Toph, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 22:03:31
Dinah I was a child protection worker for seven years, and for the life of me, I never could understand how people neglected and abused things they created.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 10, 2008, at 22:39:11
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
That's wonderful news, Dinah. I'm so glad you remained open to talking to him about this and that he was able to as well. We're all the better for it.
Yeah!
gg
Posted by Phoenix1 on March 10, 2008, at 22:43:50
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by Toph on March 10, 2008, at 22:38:25
> Dinah I was a child protection worker for seven years, and for the life of me, I never could understand how people neglected and abused things they created.
Toph, that's a perfect analogy. People get tired of things. Instead of giving them up when the time comes, some can't give up "ownership" and turn to outright neglect instead.
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 23:07:49
In reply to Our situation here....., posted by twinleaf on March 10, 2008, at 22:20:54
Well, I'm sorry for my part in setting this off.
I don't know what I can do further than that.
Posted by I need a hug on March 11, 2008, at 4:04:08
In reply to Re: Our situation here..... » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 23:07:49
How many people here have sent Dr.Bob e-mails voicing their concerns about what's going on here? He doesn't read the board or just glances at it. I guess he doesn't read his e-mails either!!!!!
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:30:46
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
I don't flip-flop!
I'm afraid my opinion of you remains...
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqc5oj
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as long as it agrees with mine.
Welcome back.
Welcome away.
Welcome always.
- Scot
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:31:36
In reply to Flip-Flopper! » Dinah, posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:30:46
t
Posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:41:41
In reply to Flip-Flopper! » Dinah, posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:30:46
Damned URLs.
Try this one.
http://www.slschofield.com/people/dinah/dinah_rose.html
Spoiled the surprise.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 7:53:04
In reply to Re: Flip-Flopper! - Oops. Damned URLs., posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:41:41
Awwww, that's so sweet, Scott. I really do appreciate it. It was a hard thing to do, to admit after all this that we worked it out.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 8:40:40
In reply to Our situation here....., posted by twinleaf on March 10, 2008, at 22:20:54
I don't know that it will help, since it's Dr. Bob people want. But he's given his permission to explain what happened.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080221/msgs/815885.html
Dr. Bob wants to encourage posters to take more responsibility for the administration of Babble, and to encourage them to use the notify Administration button.
I don't think anyone has any problems with that, since neither Dr. Bob nor deputies read every post, and this would provide for more uniform administrating as well as a safer and more civil environment. As well as giving nondeputy posters a greater feel of ownership and responsibility with regard to Babble.
I do have some issues with implementation, and the possible repercussions. But ordinarily I'd be willing to try to influence those while still being a deputy.
What I wasn't ok with, at least in part for issues that I own as my mine, is that in order to encourage more posters to report and to give them time to do this, Dr. Bob wanted us not act on reports from deputies until a non-deputy poster had reported something. With the possible exception of incivility directed at ourselves. And he said that if I quit, I'd still be considered a deputy in this respect.
When it didn't seem a negotiable point, I felt I needed to protect myself, because of my own issues, by leaving. It was not in an attempt to influence Dr. Bob's plans. I'd already tried and failed to do that.
But Dr. Bob was more willing to be flexible than I had believed, and he was able to give me assurances that allowed me to stay without feeling unsafe.
I tried to make it clear during all of this that many posters would actually like Dr. Bob's stance. And at least that there would be both positives and negatives involved. And that the reason I couldn't stay had more to do with my experiences and history than it did per se with the policy. Since whatever I thought of the policy, I'd have greater chances to influence it if I stayed.
I realize everyone would have preferred to hear it from Dr. Bob. I'd prefer that he explained himself since I'm sure I may have missed something important, or allowed my own beliefs to color the impression I'm giving. But my understanding is that he'll be here as soon as he's available.
There have been in the past, and hopefully won't be very often in the future, times when he just isn't available. I guess that's why the deputies now play more of a role than they did when first conceived, and when I first agreed to do it.
Posted by Kath on March 11, 2008, at 9:41:58
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
HUNEE - I hereby decree that you are NOT allowed to beat yourself up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Repeat - Not Allowed.
Guess what............I think that this has all happened for a reason. Now, I am not sure what the reason IS. LOL But I still think it happened for a reason.
There are various things that have happened:
- People have had a chance to say what they think & how they feel about something that existed. (the situation that caused you to feel unsafe in the first place). To my knowledge, everybody who spoke got a chance to speak out & be 'heard' & nobody got silenced. This is a positive thing.
- You have had a chance to take a stand that was very difficult for you to take, since, for one thing - as you said, you hate change.
- Dr. Bob was able to see how upset people were (even if he skimmed only, that was VERY apparent) & perhaps as a result of seeing that, he was in a place to allow the 'working out' of things that happened for you!
Who knows, Dinah, if all this hadn't happened, whether he would have been willing to work it out?- Dr. Bob was given a chance to realize (hopefully) that it's the people who post here who make up this whole place. Let's face it, without US there'd be NO PsychoBabble at ALL. Zip.
I think this whole 'situation' is a gift to Dr. Bob, if he chooses to use it. I think that he has come very close to loosing MANY, MANY wonderful members, who add to the amazing support that happens here. I also think that the way things were going, things could have ended up in a way that could have professionally reflected badly on Dr. Bob.So, Dinah, please try not to feel badly.
All you need to do, in my opinion, is take some deep breaths, know that you didn't do ANYthing wrong, know that SO many people around the world love & care about you & want you to be a part of their lives.
Please repeat after me: "I didn't do anything wrong!!"
If you're in touch with your 'little girl', & it feels safe, please let me hold her hand & tell both of you this:
You are wonderful. :-) I am so proud of you for stepping forward & speaking up to take care of yourselves! You guys ROCK!!! :-)
much love, Kath
Posted by Toph on March 11, 2008, at 9:50:18
In reply to In a nutshell, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 8:40:40
I will reread your post when I get home from work when it is safe to study it. It appears that you were forced to make your announcement when you could no longer work with Bob surrounding your objection.
What remains is that since March 3 countless posts have be submitted upset with the administrator's hands-off approach to this event. Several people made personal appeals to him as instructed in FAQs imploring him to make some kind of response. Somewhere I heard that he is busy. Yet he had time to discuss this with you and has ignored all those pleas and left you to speak for him. This is utterly unacceptable, irresponsible and patronizing to posters so invested in his website. He obviously dosn't give a sh*t how I feel about this.
Toph
Posted by Kath on March 11, 2008, at 9:53:35
In reply to And the funny thing is..., posted by muffled on March 10, 2008, at 22:28:49
> if Bob ever showed some real humaness and vulnerability we'd proly forgive him in a heartbeat.
> We a soft hearted lot here.
> We just don't like getting hurt.
********** ya just might!! ***********
Posted by muffled on March 11, 2008, at 9:54:41
In reply to In a nutshell, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 8:40:40
> I don't know that it will help, since it's Dr. Bob people want. But he's given his permission to explain what happened.
*LOL, Bob I do NOT want.....(sorry Bob)
> Dr. Bob wants to encourage posters to take more responsibility for the administration of Babble, and to encourage them to use the notify Administration button.
*I am OK with that.
> I don't think anyone has any problems with that, since neither Dr. Bob nor deputies read every post, and this would provide for more uniform administrating as well as a safer and more civil environment. As well as giving nondeputy posters a greater feel of ownership and responsibility with regard to Babble.*hmmmm, good point, but I can see it initially being a challenge.....y'know, the rat thing and all, and then posters feeling ganged up on etc
> I do have some issues with implementation, and the possible repercussions. But ordinarily I'd be willing to try to influence those while still being a deputy.*your a thinker dinah, Bob is lucky and so is babble, to have you aboard.
> What I wasn't ok with, at least in part for issues that I own as my mine, is that in order to encourage more posters to report and to give them time to do this, Dr. Bob wanted us not act on reports from deputies until a non-deputy poster had reported something. With the possible exception of incivility directed at ourselves. And he said that if I quit, I'd still be considered a deputy in this respect.*OK so now WHO is being manipulative???I say BOB......
Now that would SERIOUSLY piss me off if he said that to me. ESP saying that to you dinah who has been faithful. Methinks Bob has an apology to make, but that twixt you two.
So.....I can see this change being a challenge......> When it didn't seem a negotiable point, I felt I needed to protect myself, because of my own issues, by leaving. It was not in an attempt to influence Dr. Bob's plans. I'd already tried and failed to do that.
*(((Dinah)))You must have the patience of a saint.
> But Dr. Bob was more willing to be flexible than I had believed, and he was able to give me assurances that allowed me to stay without feeling unsafe.*Dr, Bob was flexible??????? Wow. (though KK would know all about Bob being *flexible*!!!)
> I tried to make it clear during all of this that many posters would actually like Dr. Bob's stance. And at least that there would be both positives and negatives involved. And that the reason I couldn't stay had more to do with my experiences and history than it did per se with the policy. Since whatever I thought of the policy, I'd have greater chances to influence it if I stayed.
>
> I realize everyone would have preferred to hear it from Dr. Bob. I'd prefer that he explained himself since I'm sure I may have missed something important, or allowed my own beliefs to color the impression I'm giving. But my understanding is that he'll be here as soon as he's available.*Well, I dunno if I care who it comes from, and to be honest I bet it comes 100% better from you than from Bob.
What I am completely unimpressed with is that Bob lets this sort of thing go on so long. THATS when I start to think 'lab rat'.
I think the less Bob is around, the calmer it is. I think Bob either needs to be here, or NOT. But not this disrupting in and out w/out a word business...> There have been in the past, and hopefully won't be very often in the future, times when he just isn't available. I guess that's why the deputies now play more of a role than they did when first conceived, and when I first agreed to do it.
*Hmmmm, you guys did kinda get sucked in, and maybe this administrative change is supposed to or even will eventually help with this.
I just sorta think if Bob is going to take a backseat then he needs to take a BACKSEAT. Not have his picture here, and everything be DR BOB, cuz its NOT. Then it might be calmer.
Thats my opinion.
I have more thots, but goto go.
Posted by Kath on March 11, 2008, at 9:57:30
In reply to Flip-Flopper! » Dinah, posted by SLS on March 11, 2008, at 5:30:46
It worked when i clicked on the first post & Oh My Gawd - You Are So Sweet - but hey, I knew that, didn't I!!
luv & hugs, Kath
Posted by I need a hug on March 11, 2008, at 10:03:49
In reply to In a nutshell, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 8:40:40
Dinah,
You're great!!!! Have you ever thought about starting your own site? It's O.K. You can block me for that comment if you want. LOL I'm so relieved we didn't lose you. You are like the one t.v. commercial says, "Priceless." HUGS
Posted by Kath on March 11, 2008, at 10:07:50
In reply to In a nutshell, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 8:40:40
Thanks Dinah,
I'm glad you were given the OK to go ahead & explain.
I suspect that a lot of people ARE waiting for him to say SOMEthing about all this.
I think it's good that now at least we KNOW what the issue was. I think that's important & thx for giving us the 'nutshell'.
My hope is this:
- when he gets a chance to give full focus to the posts about this situation, he will realize how much chaos has been caused by him NOT responding to our concerns in a timely manner.
My 2nd hope is this:
- having (hopefully) realized the above, he will ensure that this doesn't happen again.
:-) Kath
Posted by twinleaf on March 11, 2008, at 10:38:28
In reply to Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2008, at 21:19:45
For me, the fact that Dinah was able to work out her own personal concerns in regard to procedural changes (apparently by means of e-mails or a phone call) doesn't change the basic facts. They are:
1. I supported Dinah as much as possible, saying how extremely important she was to Babble, and how upset I was that rules were taking precedence over her presence here. I was upset even more when I did not receive any personal acknowledgement from Dinah for what I had done in her brief, laconic message to me.
2. Dinah and Bob have ways of communicating which are not available to the rest of us. There is apparently no communication channel for us, despite our sincere and respectful efforts to open one, and our clear need to have had one during the past week.3. We hear about proposed changes in procedures and rules , not because they are being offered for our consideration, but because a particular deputy finds them unacceptable. No organization would survive very long using indirect tactics like this. They are extremely insulting to the rest of us.
For me, participating here is not exactly a matter of remaining safe. It is more a matter of feeling respected and valued as one among many people who share the joys, sorrows, victories and setbacks of their personal journeys. I feel so let down to discover how cold, heartless and impersonal this site actually is. Even if I wanted to share something of my own life and experience in the future, I couldn't do it. That requires a kind of trust which I can never feel again here.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2008, at 10:58:00
In reply to Loss of trust, posted by twinleaf on March 11, 2008, at 10:38:28
> For me, the fact that Dinah was able to work out her own personal concerns in regard to procedural changes (apparently by means of e-mails or a phone call) doesn't change the basic facts. They are:
>
> 1. I supported Dinah as much as possible, saying how extremely important she was to Babble, and how upset I was that rules were taking precedence over her presence here. I was upset even more when I did not receive any personal acknowledgement from Dinah for what I had done in her brief, laconic message to me.
> 2. Dinah and Bob have ways of communicating which are not available to the rest of us. There is apparently no communication channel for us, despite our sincere and respectful efforts to open one, and our clear need to have had one during the past week.
>
> 3. We hear about proposed changes in procedures and rules , not because they are being offered for our consideration, but because a particular deputy finds them unacceptable. No organization would survive very long using indirect tactics like this. They are extremely insulting to the rest of us.
>
> For me, participating here is not exactly a matter of remaining safe. It is more a matter of feeling respected and valued as one among many people who share the joys, sorrows, victories and setbacks of their personal journeys. I feel so let down to discover how cold, heartless and impersonal this site actually is. Even if I wanted to share something of my own life and experience in the future, I couldn't do it. That requires a kind of trust which I can never feel again here.twinleaf,
You wrote,[...doesn't change...laconic message...no communication channel...not..offered for our consideration...indirect tactics...extremly insulting to..us...a matter of feeling respected and valued...feel so let down...heartless...a trust which I could never feel again here...]
There is a science of seeing the words of someone and being able to paint an overall profile of the psychological/emotional state that was induced into a person as a result of that person's perception from what the person wrote of. I am not an expert at that, but in some cases, would one have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows?
Lou
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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