![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 154. Go back in thread:
Posted by SatinDoll on November 24, 2006, at 12:45:56
In reply to Re: Eating Board Causing Harm to Posters? » Deneb, posted by muffled on November 23, 2006, at 23:20:35
sorry
Posted by Dinah on November 25, 2006, at 9:53:08
In reply to Never mind, posted by zazenducky on November 22, 2006, at 14:15:17
I respect your decision to self block, and hope you do what's best for you as a person.
But I just wanted to reiterate again that I admire many of your contributions to the board very much, and think that Babble is lucky to have you return when you wish to.
I hope that isn't too creepy of me. :)
Posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 13:02:03
In reply to Never mind, posted by zazenducky on November 22, 2006, at 14:15:17
> I was frankly shocked at the tone Racer took with Deneb.
>I'm not sure what tone you think I should have taken with Deneb on that post. She asked a question, I answered it as honestly as I could within the civility guidelines as I understand them. I know you're self-blocked, so I don't expect a reply. I would like to state, for the record, that I felt rather accused by this statement.
My reaction to that statement, though, is mine to deal with. If my communication style is not seen as supportive enough by others, that's their view. When I answered Deneb, I was trying to offer useful feedback to her, which I consider supportive. Perhaps my style is the verbal equivalent of a "flat affect," which is an unfortunate effect of depression for me.
>
> I don't belong here thank God.
>I'm not sure what this means? My interpretation, which I very much hope is inaccurate, is that you are thankful that you are not so severely mentally ill as to belong here with those of us who are.
That interpretation does offend me, because so many people here strike me as working so hard -- and so successfully -- to reach a state of optimal mental health and balance. Putting myself aside -- I can make a pretty accurate assessment of my own mental health, so it's not a big deal to me if others have different views on the subject -- it bothers me to think that someone devalues the posters here based on issues relating to mental health. There are many people here on these boards who show great insight into themselves, enormous capacity for hard work to optimize their functioning, and seemingly limitless compassion for others. That has a great deal of value, in my eyes.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas
>Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. And a happy holiday season, as well.
While I have felt hurt by your posts about me -- and some of your posts about other deputies -- I have also seen you contribute a lot of value to these boards. I do hope you come back, when you choose to. Until then, I wish you only the best.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2006, at 15:45:31
In reply to Never mind, posted by zazenducky on November 22, 2006, at 14:15:17
> I was upset about amie sans vie dying. I don't think these boards are healthy for anyone especially anyone young and vulnerable. I was frankly shocked at the tone Racer took with Deneb.
>
>
> I don't belong here thank God.
>
>
> I'm self blocking.
>
>
> Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas
>
Friends,
The grammatical structure of zazenducky's post leads me to look first at:
[...I was upset at am(i)e sans vie dying...].
The author then goes on to write,[...I don't think that these boards are healthy for anyone especially anyone young and vulneralble...].
In using modern exegesis, one could think,IMO, that the author,zazenducky, is expressing a connection that she/he thinks there is in relation to the two statements. There are possible interpretations from the two statements that could be made. Could one be that zazenducky is saying that [these boards] were in some way connected to the possible mental health of the subject person, {ame sans vie},since ame sans vie could be considered to be a young person? As far as the person being {vulnerable}, there is some speculation to that, but there is a post by ame sans vie giving details of his life that could have the potential, IMO, to lead some to think that he was a vulnerable person, if {vulnerable} means that he was a person of the type that could be emotionally wounded easily by statments made to him by others here. I can not be sure of if zazenducky intended that interpretation.
This leads to the author's statement,[...I was shocked...tone Racer..Deneb...]. I ask: Is there a relation to that statement to the author's previous two statements? I am unsure about that. And she/he writes also that she/he was {shocked} at the tone that Racer took with Deneb. Are the two words, {shocked} and {upset} of the same type of expression? If so, is there a relationship to Zazenducky's two stetemnts? I can not be sure of what is the intended interpretation of the author.
The zazenducky writes,[...I don't belong here thank God..]. This brings up as to what the reasons could be as to what the author has to write that she/he does >not belong< here thank God. I ask:
Does zazenducky mean that this forum is one that contributes to the wounding emotionally of others here and that she/he is saying that she/he is not of that mentality and is leaving so that she/he could not be considered a contributor to that? I am unsure as to the intention of the author here.
But I am also shocked and saddened by the death of ame sans vie. I am also self-blocking.
Lou
>
>
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2006, at 21:19:31
In reply to Re: Never mind » zazenducky, posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 13:02:03
> > I was frankly shocked at the tone Racer took with Deneb.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what tone you think I should have taken with Deneb on that post. She asked a question, I answered it as honestly as I could within the civility guidelines as I understand them. I know you're self-blocked, so I don't expect a reply. I would like to state, for the record, that I felt rather accused by this statement.
>
> My reaction to that statement, though, is mine to deal with. If my communication style is not seen as supportive enough by others, that's their view. When I answered Deneb, I was trying to offer useful feedback to her, which I consider supportive. Perhaps my style is the verbal equivalent of a "flat affect," which is an unfortunate effect of depression for me.
>
> >
> > I don't belong here thank God.
> >
>
> I'm not sure what this means? My interpretation, which I very much hope is inaccurate, is that you are thankful that you are not so severely mentally ill as to belong here with those of us who are.
>
> That interpretation does offend me, because so many people here strike me as working so hard -- and so successfully -- to reach a state of optimal mental health and balance. Putting myself aside -- I can make a pretty accurate assessment of my own mental health, so it's not a big deal to me if others have different views on the subject -- it bothers me to think that someone devalues the posters here based on issues relating to mental health. There are many people here on these boards who show great insight into themselves, enormous capacity for hard work to optimize their functioning, and seemingly limitless compassion for others. That has a great deal of value, in my eyes.
>
> >
> > Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas
> >
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. And a happy holiday season, as well.
>
> While I have felt hurt by your posts about me -- and some of your posts about other deputies -- I have also seen you contribute a lot of value to these boards. I do hope you come back, when you choose to. Until then, I wish you only the best.Friends,
It is written here,[I don't belong here...]and,[...it bothers me to think that someone >devalues< the posters here based on issues relating to mental health...].
In my reading of zazenducky's post, I do not see that she/he is writing anything that {devalues}another here.
In my seeing of the whole post by zazenducky, she/he writes that she/he was |upset| about ame sans vie dying. Zazenducky showed grief in respect that she/he was {upset}. When I see the rest of her/his post in context, I think that there is the potential for her/his whole post to mean to some that young people {are} vulnerable to what others post on these boards to them.I cannot conclude that zazenducky means that others should not be members of these boards, for I do not see anything written that could substantually conclude that.
In zazenducky writing,[..I don't belong here..] I see that that could have the potential for some others to think that she/he means that she is so upset that to keep posting could have the potential to devalue the death of this young man. I feel that I can not post here durring this time for that reason, except to bring this out here in defense of zazenducky, for I think that if all of the community could close for one day, that that could show the value of a departed member.
I just read the exchanges with Deneb and Racer in question here. I think that there is the potential for zazenducky to mean that at this time, let us give more value to a young man's life here and eschew the usual dialogs for a time to honor the value of the departed poster's contributions here, which are many that I have been reading on the main forum.
Zazenducky writes that she/he is self-blocking. I think that she/he wants to show the value of the departed member and so do I.
Lou
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2006, at 8:48:40
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of zazenducky's post » zazenducky, posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2006, at 15:45:31
> But I am also shocked...
Why shocked?
> I am also self-blocking.
Why?
Do you feel that Psycho-Babble played a causative role in the suicide of Ame Sans Vie?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 26, 2006, at 9:05:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response to aspects of zazenducky's post » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on November 26, 2006, at 8:48:40
Friends,
It is written here,[...the suicide of Ame Sans Vie...]
This is the first that I have heard that the death of Ame Sans Vie was a suicide.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2006, at 10:35:58
In reply to Never mind, posted by zazenducky on November 22, 2006, at 14:15:17
> I don't think these boards are healthy for anyone
Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2006, at 11:12:04
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of scott's post, posted by Lou Pilder on November 26, 2006, at 9:05:15
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...the suicide of Ame Sans Vie...]
> This is the first that I have heard that the death of Ame Sans Vie was a suicide.
I am profoundly sorry.I became confused.
From what I understand, there is no evidence that the death of Ame Sans Vie was a suicide.
Thanks for making that clear, Lou.
So, what is it about his death and the dynamics of Psycho-Babble that you should find it necessary to self-block?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 26, 2006, at 18:41:17
In reply to Re: Lou's response to aspects of zazenducky's post » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on November 26, 2006, at 8:48:40
According to his Mom it was not a suicide. I've been e-mailing with her. Waiting for toxicology reports. Love Phillipa
Posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 16:59:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response to aspects of zazenducky's post » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on November 26, 2006, at 8:48:40
>
> Do you feel that Psycho-Babble played a causative role in the suicide of Ame Sans Vie?
>No, not causative. But I think someone should take a careful look at whether ASV's relationship with Babble was good either for himself or for others who read the years of archived posts Dr Bob keeps available to the public. I hope someone lets us know what the cause of death was and whether the years of extreme medication and other substance use he described here contributed.
The last post (or one of the last) that he made before his reported death was a recipe for making poppy tea.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061013/msgs/697253.html
Another thread concerns his unusual drug regimen. I think the reaction of the other posters is also notable.
One of the most pognant lines from ASV's replies to one of his admirers is as follows
.....................
> How does your doctor let you have two barbiturates and two benzodiazepines, and Desoxyn? my goodness you sound like elvis presley and all his prescriptions.
>
> MWAH!lmfao, I love the Elvis analogy, lmao. It was painfree in my case to get all these things prescribed. For one thing, my psychiatrist, therapist, and GP all know I'm quite savvy when it comes to psychopharmacology. And of course, my pdoc had all my medical records from prior doctors that I personally requested be released to him so he could see the extent and debilitating nature of my dillema.
.........................Like Elvis Presley indeed but so much younger.
I don't know if his drug taking had anything to do with his death. If it did I hope someone holds his doctors accountable.
As for Babble I don't know. For me it was troubling to read those posts. Dr Bob is always saying your freedom of speech is limited here and I wonder if he has ever considered what impact this kind of speech and information sharing may have. I wish someone would think seriously about this. No point in sending in an adverse incident report...they just go to Dr Bob. Is there any accountability at all anywhere for internet medical forums? I don't think there is but I think maybe there should be.
I've read all the disclaimers etc etc. I think Dr Bob is responsible for everything that is posted here in the same way a publisher is responsible for what is printed in his newspaper. His use of his professional title while disclaiming all responsibility troubles me.
At the same time I am aware that many people say Babble helps them.
Posted by Dinah on November 27, 2006, at 17:02:09
In reply to Ame Sans Vie and Babble, posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 16:59:15
Thanks for explaining your thinking.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 17:07:35
In reply to Re: Never mind » zazenducky, posted by Racer on November 25, 2006, at 13:02:03
> I'm not sure what this means? My interpretation, which I very much hope is inaccurate,Totally inaccurate.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 17:10:51
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of zazenducky's post » zazenducky, posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2006, at 15:45:31
Posted by madeline on November 27, 2006, at 17:15:53
In reply to Ame Sans Vie and Babble, posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 16:59:15
I like the new spelling.
I don't want to sound too forward, but would you mind turning your babblemail on?
I have some thoughts on this subject as well.
Posted by Phillipa on November 27, 2006, at 20:01:31
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble » zazenduckie, posted by madeline on November 27, 2006, at 17:15:53
Wow slow down. I'm in contact with his Mother and she is grateful to babble and fellow babblers. And babble in no way had anything to do with his death.I will let you all know when his Mother let's me know the toxicology report. But he had cut way back on his meds and was very happy cause he felt better getting back to work with his band music that is. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on November 27, 2006, at 22:01:47
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble, posted by Phillipa on November 27, 2006, at 20:01:31
I agree with Phillipa. Speculating before the fact
just does not seem right. Plenty of time later for other issues if the facts support it.
Posted by Declan on November 27, 2006, at 23:26:14
In reply to Re: Ame Sans and Babble, posted by notfred on November 27, 2006, at 22:01:47
It is a particularly hazardous time of life for young men.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 8:06:31
In reply to Ame Sans Vie and Babble, posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 16:59:15
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have brought that quote down. I was responding to the question as I have rephrased it below. notfred is right that it would be premature to speculate about a specific cause of death. But I think it is reasonable to ask about the role of his unusual drug taking which he described on Babble.
I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to the dead. I'm sorry if I upset you Phillipa. I am sure this has been a difficult time for you.
> >
> > Do you feel that Psycho-Babble played a causative role in the (death) of Ame Sans Vie?
> >
>
> No, not causative. But I think someone should take a careful look at whether ASV's relationship with Babble was good either for himself or for others who read the years of archived posts Dr Bob keeps available to the public. I hope someone lets us know what the cause of death was and whether the years of extreme medication and other substance use he described here contributed.
>
> The last post (or one of the last) that he made before his reported death was a recipe for making poppy tea.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061013/msgs/697253.html
>
> Another thread concerns his unusual drug regimen. I think the reaction of the other posters is also notable.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/usr/local/apache/htdocs/babble/20051106/msgs/576091.html#576091
>
> One of the most pognant lines from ASV's replies to one of his admirers is as follows
> .....................
> > How does your doctor let you have two barbiturates and two benzodiazepines, and Desoxyn? my goodness you sound like elvis presley and all his prescriptions.
> >
> > MWAH!
>
> lmfao, I love the Elvis analogy, lmao. It was painfree in my case to get all these things prescribed. For one thing, my psychiatrist, therapist, and GP all know I'm quite savvy when it comes to psychopharmacology. And of course, my pdoc had all my medical records from prior doctors that I personally requested be released to him so he could see the extent and debilitating nature of my dillema.
> .........................
>
> Like Elvis Presley indeed but so much younger.
>
> I don't know if his drug taking had anything to do with his death. If it did I hope someone holds his doctors accountable.
>
> As for Babble I don't know. For me it was troubling to read those posts. Dr Bob is always saying your freedom of speech is limited here and I wonder if he has ever considered what impact this kind of speech and information sharing may have. I wish someone would think seriously about this. No point in sending in an adverse incident report...they just go to Dr Bob. Is there any accountability at all anywhere for internet medical forums? I don't think there is but I think maybe there should be.
>
> I've read all the disclaimers etc etc. I think Dr Bob is responsible for everything that is posted here in the same way a publisher is responsible for what is printed in his newspaper. His use of his professional title while disclaiming all responsibility troubles me.
>
> At the same time I am aware that many people say Babble helps them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 8:19:30
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble » zazenduckie, posted by madeline on November 27, 2006, at 17:15:53
> I like the new spelling
O thank you. I keep doing the change your password and forget it routine to self block and then have to reregister with a new name each time. I only lasted 5 days this time. I'm pitiful! Maybe I should freeze the password in a gallon of water and then defrost it when I change my mind instead of reregistering like SI people do with razor blades. Then maybe the impulse would pass.
>
> I don't want to sound too forward, but would you mind turning your babblemail on?I'm sorry I don't babblemail. But thanks for asking :)
>
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 11:36:11
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble Correction, posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 8:06:31
I do understand how you feel. I didn't know him personally cyberspace know and I was involved cause he wrote his first e-mail to me that day and his Mother found it on the computer which is how I became involved. Aplogy accepted. No problem at all But could we let him rest? Love Phillipa
Posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 12:21:06
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble Correction » zazenduckie, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 11:36:11
>> But could we let him rest?
Phillipa with all due respect, I am not disturbing his rest.
I was talking about administrative issues and have said about all I have to say at this time. I don't think anything will ever come of it. But I thought it needed to be said.
It's hugely horribly sad when somebody that young dies. I think it's natural to wonder if anything could have made a difference for him or for someone else here.
But as a favour to you I'll try to shut up for awhile.
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 20:21:42
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble Correction » Phillipa, posted by zazenduckie on November 28, 2006, at 12:21:06
I don't want you to feel badly. I think there is merit in what your goals are. I in my opinion only think the internet is not that safe for young people. Not this site as a duputy or Bob usually steps in and helps with the issue. What bothers me is the internet sites with things like mixing med combos that could hurt you and things like that. I think here that the eating board as you brought it up could help a lot of people. There will always be those who use the internet shall we say wrong or misguided? Love Phillipa ps no news yet on the other.
Posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 20:34:01
In reply to Ame Sans Vie and Babble, posted by zazenduckie on November 27, 2006, at 16:59:15
> > Do you feel that Psycho-Babble played a causative role in the suicide of Ame Sans Vie?
(Not determined to be a suicide)
> No, not causative.Then what?
> But I think someone should take a careful look at whether ASV's relationship with Babble was good either for himself or for others who read the years of archived posts Dr Bob keeps available to the public.
Do you feel that the extent to which free speech is allowed on Psycho-Babble provides information by which the majority of readers hurt themselves?
> I hope someone lets us know what the cause of death was and whether the years of extreme medication and other substance use he described here contributed.
What would be the importance of having this information? Do you suppose that his intent to post on Psycho-Babble his experiences with medication influenced his behavior? Did his posting through the years influence the behavior of others? Is there any evidence that such influence was harmful to a single person? And what if it was? What is the threshold that one should use to judge the benefits versus dangers of Psycho-Babble?
- Scott
Posted by zazenduckie on November 29, 2006, at 12:07:04
In reply to Re: Ame Sans Vie and Babble » zazenduckie, posted by SLS on November 28, 2006, at 20:34:01
> > > Do you feel that Psycho-Babble played a causative role in the suicide of Ame Sans Vie?
>
> (Not determined to be a suicideI was actually posting under the assumption that the unusual drug consumption might be implicated in an accidental poisoning rather than an outright suicide. Or that years of the drug regimen he described might have compromised his health in other ways that led to his death. I thought Phillipa had posted that it wasn't a suicide.
>
> > No, not causative.
>
> Then what?I think if a poster posted about taking a combination of narcotics amphetamines and barbituates and various herbal mixtures and stated his opinion that he was something of an expert on pharmacology and the board gave him a forum and reinforced that opinion and gave him positive feedback that perhaps they colluded to some extent.
>
> > But I think someone should take a careful look at whether ASV's relationship with Babble was good either for himself or for others who read the years of archived posts Dr Bob keeps available to the public.
>
> Do you feel that the extent to which free speech is allowed on Psycho-Babble provides information by which the majority of readers hurt themselves?I don't know. I wouldn't think so.
>
> > I hope someone lets us know what the cause of death was and whether the years of extreme medication and other substance use he described here contributed.
>
>> What would be the importance of having this information?Because his opinions and advice are still in the archives as well as his medication history and it would put that
in perspective.
>>Do you suppose that his intent to post on Psycho-Babble his experiences with medication influenced his behavior?I don't know. Sometimes people have said they are going to try a certain medicine and report back to Babble. I don't know if ASV did. I wouldn't think that was a very big influence, but I don't know. People will sometimes do things for an audience they wouldn't otherwise do.
>>Did his posting through the years influence the behavior of others?Possibly.
>>Is there any evidence that such influence was harmful to a single person?
I don't know. I think it would be good if someone impartial went through the archives and tried to find out. But I don't think that is very likely to happen.
>> And what if it was?
If it was I think it would be prudent to remove whatever posts were leading to harm even for a single person. And to reconsider the posting guidelines.
>>What is the threshold that one should use to judge the benefits versus dangers of Psycho-Babble?I don't know. I think I'd go with Hippocrates. First of all do no harm.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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