![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Girlnterrupted on October 29, 2006, at 14:34:13
In reply to Please be civil » Girlnterrupted, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 13:23:49
Is being honest the same as being uncivil? I don't understand. I have freedom of speech. Am I being silenced?
Posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:34:13
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Girlnterrupted on October 29, 2006, at 14:16:23
Willee you can be a sweetie when you want to. Love Phillipa
The above comment was a post from phillipa.I was offended by this,basicaly what she is saying is that im usualy a mean person,this honestly troubled me,and i felt it was uncivil,come on are we playing favorites here,can you explain if not how this is not uncivil,and could not be taken as a insult,a unprovoked one?
Posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:38:11
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Girlnterrupted on October 29, 2006, at 14:16:23
From the FAQ:
"Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but your freedom of speech is limited here. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place."
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob.
Posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:44:31
In reply to Re: Please be civilDinah, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:26:29
You might not be aware of the new policy in effect at Babble. And since I'm not sure how widely Dr. Bob has announced it, I'll give you a link the FAQ
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help-enforce
If you wish to request that a post be reviewed for civility, you can report it to Administration from a link at the bottom of each post. But Dr. Bob asks that you not report a post on the board itself.
If you have any questions about the policies that aren't answered by the FAQ, it's ok to ask for clarification, but please don't use specific posts as examples in asking for clarification on the board.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:50:01
In reply to Re: Please be civilDinah » willyee, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:44:31
> You might not be aware of the new policy in effect at Babble. And since I'm not sure how widely Dr. Bob has announced it, I'll give you a link the FAQ
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help-enforce
>
> If you wish to request that a post be reviewed for civility, you can report it to Administration from a link at the bottom of each post. But Dr. Bob asks that you not report a post on the board itself.
>
> If you have any questions about the policies that aren't answered by the FAQ, it's ok to ask for clarification, but please don't use specific posts as examples in asking for clarification on the board.
>
> Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. BobSo in essecense the policy is you dont have to answer?
Also,
Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt.
This comment greatly confuses me,i ask if it can be explained more.I do so because this is adminstration,if we are here are only directed to email dr.bob,and yet not have any queries addressed,then a third question would be what does this board serve as if nothing is addressed but only told to contact dr.bob anyway.
Posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:54:08
In reply to Re: Please be civilDinah, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:50:01
The Admin board is to discuss administrative issues in general, not to discuss individual posts that you believe are uncivil.
Contacting Dr. Bob through the link provided at the bottom of each post will get the request sent to all deputies and Dr. Bob, and it *will* be answered one way or another.
Just keep scrolling down as you read a post, and you'll see the link.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 29, 2006, at 18:16:25
In reply to Re: Please be civilDinah, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:50:01
> Is being honest the same as being uncivil? I don't understand. I have freedom of speech. Am I being silenced?
>
> GirlnterruptedThanks for trying to understand. As Dinah said, your freedom of speech is limited here. Being honest isn't the same as being uncivil, but it's possible for being honest to be uncivil. It depends on what you have to say.
--
> > Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt.
>
> This comment greatly confuses me,i ask if it can be explained more.
>
> willyeeI'm glad you asked, too. The idea is that I'd like people here not to retaliate when they feel hurt. Wanting to do so is perfectly understandable, but actually doing so I think makes it less supportive here. It's kind of a cliché, but two wrongs don't make a right. That doesn't, however, mean people can't say they feel hurt, that kind of honesty is fine. Using "I-statements" can help a lot:
http://www.crnhq.org/windskill4.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.htmlI know it can take some time to get the hang of it, but it's not a bad skill to develop.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2006, at 18:37:21
In reply to Reporting incivility » willyee, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:54:08
Dinah,
In regards to requesting from the deputies to examine posts that could be considered uncivil,(reporting incivility, you wrote,
[...it *will* be answered {one way or another}...]
Now assuming that the {one way} is an email returned to the requester {answering} the request, then what are you saying could be the {other} ways?
In a reply from you to me here, could you then answer the following?
A. Will the FAQ be changed to say that now the deputies [...*will* reply with an answer to a request...], from writing that [...the deputies do not have to...]?
B. Will the many requets that I have sent to the administration that I have not received an answer from them be answered now?
C. Will the posts that IMO have the potential to foster defamation toward Jews and me as a Jew on this forum that I have requested that a determination be made as to if they are civil or not, and there has not been an answere to me, now be answered to me as to if they are considered by the administrsation here to be civil or not?
D. If you are saying that in the FAQ where it says that [...you can always ask Dr. (Hsiung) or a deputy...], that that means that what you wrote,[...*will* reply to a request...]is not something new here? If so, then are there two standards here,for I have not received answers to many, many requests?
E. If I can not request about incivility if the post is from one of those that I am not permitted to request about, then in your statement,[...*will* be answered one way or another...], how *will* it be answered ifI can not make the request?
Lou
Posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 18:52:20
In reply to Phillipa (and others), posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 13:37:47
> Such a positive and gracious response. I hope that I can learn from it.
I *feel* this is inapproiate being a moderator to actualy post in the middle of a confliction to one side of it,isnt this a major major conflict of interest,isnt a moderator supposed to stay nuetral?
MY goodness im gonna go now whoo
Posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 18:52:21
In reply to Re: Phillipa (and others), posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 15:01:54
It didn't occur to me that appreciating people following the civility guidelines and letting them know that was a particularly un-administrative thing to do. Dr. Bob himself frequently says thanks to people for doing that.
However, I'm sure Dr. Bob will note your input and let me know if he thinks otherwise.
Posted by Crazy Horse on October 29, 2006, at 18:52:22
In reply to Re: Philipa is a lovely person!! :o) » Meri-Tuuli, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 9:32:53
> The poster did not comment on her as a person.He did not insult her as a person.What he did was notice how she posts to every single thread,even with not productive input.
>
> Im glad at least someone sees that,as im thinking im crazy.
>
>
> If you were real friends you would speak to her about an obviously obsessive need to be part of every thread.Its not heatlhy,and i would tell a friend that.I spend too much time on myspace,and a family member pointed this out to me,i did not get mad,or insulted,but agreed to the obvious i was and know its a problem i need to overcome.
>
> Many of her posts to threads are just random comments.
>
> Again take this as mean,but a friend would be concerned of this.
>Hey, Willyee take a look in the mirror. And fu*ckin back off of Jan!!
-Monte
> As far as your comment to me phillipa,i dident really appreciate it,i understand ill have no symptahy as im sure im not liked,but i know for a fact the comment :nice when i want to be" is rather uncalled for.
>
>
> I post when i believe,or hope i can actualy offer input to the poster,im always kind in my posts,and almost always end with well wishes.
>
> Where you got that comment im not sure,perhaps because im am not afraid to post comments like these,and im not afraid of being banned for speaking my mind.
>
> Anyway the poster dident comment on phillipa as a person,just on a noticable trend which if you looked now you would see she is in every single thread.A friend to her,and yet you dont see this as a concern for someone,ok well then flame me,but i told her as a friend in email in a kind way perhaps thats why.
>
>
> And ill ask that you phillipa please refrain from personal emails to me,keep it on this group,thank you.
>
>
> I know my heart,and i know im not mean,and i will speak if i see a friend or person i like doing something that is possably harmmful to them.She is still a friend as well as i understand this is just a message board,i dont know her as a person,but as a person i know she is caring and shows great concern,but that is not the issue at hand.
>
> Anyway ill refrain from posting here since i seem to be to rough on the edges i suppose.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 18:52:22
In reply to Re: Philipa is a lovely person!! :o) » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on October 29, 2006, at 16:48:13
> Hey, Willyee take a look in the mirror. ...
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions. Thus, you can always appeal this decision to him, and he may choose a different action.
Regards,
deputy gg
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2006, at 18:56:27
In reply to Reporting incivility » willyee, posted by Dinah on October 29, 2006, at 14:54:08
Dinah,
Could you include the following in a reply to me?
A. It is unclear to me as to if Dr. Hsiung is saying that he has retracted his writing to me to {have someone else read my request for a determination concerning my wanting to post a link from the Anti-Defamation League as a response to posts here that have not been sanctioned as being uncivil that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings.Could you write here if it is clear to you one way or the other?
B. It is unclear to me here as to if I can request someone here >in my behalf< to use the report uncivility posts for those that I am not permitted to ask about. Could you tell me if it is it claer to you about that? If that is the case, then if I was allowed to do so, could that not negate the prohibition and could I just then ask you as a poster and not as a deputy tp make the request in my behalf?
Lou
Posted by lymom3 on October 29, 2006, at 19:02:29
In reply to Not a follow up, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:38:53
I certainly think that she was as polite as can be considering you implied that her posts were useless and a waste of everyone's time. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have hurt feelings about that and I don't know how much nicer she could have been about it.
If you don't want to read her posts and feel they are a waste, then don't read them. I don't think that she has been banned for any posts that she has made. Consider that when you call her uncivil and insulting.
You do post supportive comments and you do help where you can when the meds or situations are ones that you have experience with. I don't want to take anything away from you on that. All of us here are looking for something and we all have a variety of issues. We are all bound to do things that others consider odd, impolite or out of line. As much as you want people to be tolerant of you, so should you be tolerant of others.
Now I'm probably in trouble too. I don't mean to step on any toes or hurt anyone's feelings but life is too short to sweat the small stuff.
Posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 19:02:30
In reply to Re: Not a follow up, posted by lymom3 on October 29, 2006, at 17:01:07
> I certainly think that she was as polite as can be considering you implied that her posts were useless and a waste of everyone's time. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have hurt feelings about that and I don't know how much nicer she could have been about it.
>
That post was before any others,as i said it was unprovoked.It was in a previous thread.
Posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 19:05:22
In reply to Re: Philipa is a lovely person!! :o) » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on October 29, 2006, at 16:48:13
> > The poster did not comment on her as a person.He did not insult her as a person.What he did was notice how she posts to every single thread,even with not productive input.
> >
> > Im glad at least someone sees that,as im thinking im crazy.
> >
> >
> > If you were real friends you would speak to her about an obviously obsessive need to be part of every thread.Its not heatlhy,and i would tell a friend that.I spend too much time on myspace,and a family member pointed this out to me,i did not get mad,or insulted,but agreed to the obvious i was and know its a problem i need to overcome.
> >
> > Many of her posts to threads are just random comments.
> >
> > Again take this as mean,but a friend would be concerned of this.
> >
>
> Hey, Willyee take a look in the mirror. And fu*ckin back off of Jan!!
>
> -MonteNow is this civil,come on you cant be so simple minded as to post toughness on the internet.Are we five now,lets not forget who has there information available and out there and who doesent,im not a hard person to get too,but again is this what were resorting to lol.Mabye if she backed off me with her hundred emails i did not ask for it would not be an issue,speak out the mouth what you know please.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > As far as your comment to me phillipa,i dident really appreciate it,i understand ill have no symptahy as im sure im not liked,but i know for a fact the comment :nice when i want to be" is rather uncalled for.
> >
> >
> > I post when i believe,or hope i can actualy offer input to the poster,im always kind in my posts,and almost always end with well wishes.
> >
> > Where you got that comment im not sure,perhaps because im am not afraid to post comments like these,and im not afraid of being banned for speaking my mind.
> >
> > Anyway the poster dident comment on phillipa as a person,just on a noticable trend which if you looked now you would see she is in every single thread.A friend to her,and yet you dont see this as a concern for someone,ok well then flame me,but i told her as a friend in email in a kind way perhaps thats why.
> >
> >
> > And ill ask that you phillipa please refrain from personal emails to me,keep it on this group,thank you.
> >
> >
> > I know my heart,and i know im not mean,and i will speak if i see a friend or person i like doing something that is possably harmmful to them.She is still a friend as well as i understand this is just a message board,i dont know her as a person,but as a person i know she is caring and shows great concern,but that is not the issue at hand.
> >
> > Anyway ill refrain from posting here since i seem to be to rough on the edges i suppose.
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 20:04:58
In reply to Re: Philipa is a lovely person!! :o), posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 19:05:22
> Now is this civil,come on you cant be so simple minded as to post toughness on the internet.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. You've been asked to be civil, so now I am blocking you from posting. I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions. Thus, you can always appeal this decision to him, and he may choose a different action.
Regards,
deputy gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 29, 2006, at 20:57:20
In reply to Blocked » willyee, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 20:04:58
> I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
According to the current system:
previous block: 1 week
period of time since previous block: 4 weeks
uncivil toward a particular individual or group: yes
particularly uncivil: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: noIf we take 4 weeks, divide by 10, and round, that's a reduction of 0 weeks. If we apply that to his previous block, that's 1 - 0 = 1 week. And if we triple that, that's 3 weeks.
Bob
Posted by Crazy Horse on October 29, 2006, at 20:59:46
In reply to Not a follow up, posted by willyee on October 29, 2006, at 14:38:53
> Willee you can be a sweetie when you want to. Love Phillipa
>
> The above comment was a post from phillipa.I was offended by this,basicaly what she is saying is that im usualy a mean person,this honestly troubled me,and i felt it was uncivil,come on are we playing favorites here,can you explain if not how this is not uncivil,and could not be taken as a insult,a unprovoked one?
>
> <This is a new question,not a follow up,please address>Get a flippin life Willyee!
-Monte
Posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 20:59:47
In reply to Re: Not a follow up » willyee, posted by Crazy Horse on October 29, 2006, at 20:06:43
> Get a flippin life Willyee!Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. You've been asked to be civil, so now I am blocking you from posting. I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions. Thus, you can always appeal this decision to him, and he may choose a different action.
Regards,
deputy gg
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2006, at 20:59:47
In reply to Blocked » Crazy Horse, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 20:18:42
GG Monte was just supporting me. Monte I'm so sorry. Love Jan
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 29, 2006, at 21:07:42
In reply to Blocked » Crazy Horse, posted by gardenergirl on October 29, 2006, at 20:18:42
> I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
According to the current system:
previous block: 1 week
period of time since previous block: 16 weeks
uncivil toward a particular individual or group: yes
particularly uncivil: no
different type of incivility: no
clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no
provoked: no
uncivil in multiple posts at same time: no
already archived: noIf we take 16 weeks, divide by 10, and round, that's a reduction of 2 weeks. If we apply that to his previous block, that takes him back to 0. And if we go from there, that's 1 week.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2006, at 8:49:31
In reply to Lou's request to Dinah- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 29, 2006, at 18:56:27
I'm afraid I don't understand Lou. I don't see how what I said changes anything as it currently stands. And I certainly wouldn't assume that it did.
I didn't say the poster would be answered by me or by any particular deputy, or any deputy at all. It could well be that in any particular instance, we might not be sure of the answer, and feel it's a call best made by Dr. Bob, and leave it to him.
As to why you haven't received any answer at all from Dr. Bob, I'm afraid you'd have to ask him.
Are you asking if you can ask me as a poster to review posts once you have reached your limit of three? I had made the offer to one and all, if you remember. However, at your request, I withdrew it.
I hope I have answered your question, as I wasn't quite certain what you meant. I was just explaining the new rule, not making any. You know I don't have the ability to make new rules.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2006, at 9:13:57
In reply to Re: Lou's request to Dinah- » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2006, at 8:49:31
Dinah,
You wrote,[...don't see..what I said changes...].
You wrote that members can use the feature made recently to alert Dr. Hsiung and all the deputies about uncivility and that it *will* be answered..]
The use of the stars in [...{*will*} be answered...], is generally meant that there is emphaticness associated with the word used with the stars.
The FAQ writes that the deputies do not have to intervene.
I am asking if what you write as {*will*} be answered changes the FAQ where it writes that deputies {do not} have to intervene. In the case where all the deputies do not know the answer, and Dr. Hsiung does not reply to me, then there is not an answer to me from the administration. So when you wrote, [...*will* be answered one way or {the other}...], I have requested to know what {the other} ways could be if all the deputies and Dr. Hsiung do not reply to me with an answer.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2006, at 9:29:50
In reply to Lou's reply to Dinah's reply to Lou » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 30, 2006, at 9:13:57
Deputies do not have to intervene. In those instances where deputies do not feel that they could or should intervene, it is up to Dr. Bob to answer. As long as the request is within the rules, as in the three request rule, I assume that he will answer. It doesn't of course mean he'll agree.
I don't quite understand why you are so upset about deputies not having to intervene. While sometimes we might have real life concerns that take our time, a frequent reason we don't is that we don't know the answer. If it's something we're not sure about, or we don't think is uncivil but of course can't make a ruling that it is because we wish Dr. Bob to make certain because clearly if someone asks someone is offended, or in cases where the rules are complex, we often defer to Dr. Bob. It doesn't mean things aren't addressed. It means they're addressed by Dr. Bob in whatever way he sees fit. And since he's the ultimate authority anyway, it ends up making no difference. And in my humble opinion, is a far better state of affairs than deputies ruling on things they aren't sure about. Dr. Bob is the judicial branch of this system, so to speak, and it's up to him to define laws by making rulings, again, so to speak.
Again, if you are making requests to him and they aren't answered, you'll have to ask him about that. I can't answer for him.
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