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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 40 to 64 of 73. Go back in thread:
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 9:05:32
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2003, at 8:36:39
Bob,I really think you're splitting hairs. What do the civility rules say? "could lead others to feel accused or put down," right? that's very broad. and dinah DID feel put down, I reckon. and MANY of us had alarm bells going off, so why aren't yours?
You should just admit you were wrong. This is ridiculous.
crushed
> > > > he attacked dinah directly, accusing her of "grumbling and obligatory thinking," whatever that means.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031123/msgs/284894.html
>
> Yes, there he says:
>
> > Your grumbling and obligatory thinking cloud your vision from seeing this truth about yourself...
>
> I think I see what you mean about the phrase you quoted, and maybe it was a mistake to let it go, but FWIW, he did qualify what he said:
>
> > your story sounds much like this... This is my experienced guess...
>
> And also I'm not sure the gist of it was really an "attack", since the "truth" he was referring to was:
>
> > You will be whole when you know you are "enough" to handle tomorrow better than you handled yesterday... What you are reluctant to accept is that you've always been "enough"...
>
> Which I think was pretty supportive...
>
> Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 9:06:50
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2003, at 8:36:39
Supportive? Well, this is why I stayed out of this, and why I wish you had too, Dr. Bob. Now I have to deal with my feelings of intense anger and betrayal and hurt again, Dr. Bob. And I don't have time for that right now.
That you found that post not unsupportive was quite bad enough, Dr. Bob. That you find it supportive is well nigh unbearable.
I was accused of being delusional:
"Memories acquired in a delusional or dissociated state will be a mixture of real and imagined... Sad to say that your story sounds much like this... You witnessed part of it, delusions filled in some,"
I was told I had an undisciplined and impulsive mind. (And yes, I know he didn't say "you have a" but why would it be included if that wasn't the implication.
"Sometimes the quest for knowing "why" serves as a distraction for the undisciplined impulsive mind"
And the fact that he says I am "enough" does not in any way make up for "Your grumbling and obligatory thinking cloud your vision".
The only way I feel I can even continue to post here is because you are enforcing the do not post rule. I feel sorry for those you refuse to enforce that rule for because they have to be be the recipient of such a "supportive" post before they can invoke the rule.
I am halfway inclined to ask *you* never to post to me again, so I'd better get away from the computer for a while.
Geez, Dr. Bob. Do you think you can hurt me worse?
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 9:11:43
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 9:06:50
if it helps any, as i'm sure you've gathered, i share your rage, dinah. and not just because i feel like i was punished unfairly.
> Supportive? Well, this is why I stayed out of this, and why I wish you had too, Dr. Bob. Now I have to deal with my feelings of intense anger and betrayal and hurt again, Dr. Bob. And I don't have time for that right now.
>
> That you found that post not unsupportive was quite bad enough, Dr. Bob. That you find it supportive is well nigh unbearable.
>
> I was accused of being delusional:
>
> "Memories acquired in a delusional or dissociated state will be a mixture of real and imagined... Sad to say that your story sounds much like this... You witnessed part of it, delusions filled in some,"
>
> I was told I had an undisciplined and impulsive mind. (And yes, I know he didn't say "you have a" but why would it be included if that wasn't the implication.
>
> "Sometimes the quest for knowing "why" serves as a distraction for the undisciplined impulsive mind"
>
> And the fact that he says I am "enough" does not in any way make up for "Your grumbling and obligatory thinking cloud your vision".
>
> The only way I feel I can even continue to post here is because you are enforcing the do not post rule. I feel sorry for those you refuse to enforce that rule for because they have to be be the recipient of such a "supportive" post before they can invoke the rule.
>
> I am halfway inclined to ask *you* never to post to me again, so I'd better get away from the computer for a while.
>
> Geez, Dr. Bob. Do you think you can hurt me worse?
Posted by stjames on December 15, 2003, at 12:19:53
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2003, at 8:36:39
How did this help, Dr Bob ?
Posted by stjames on December 15, 2003, at 12:44:03
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by stjames on December 15, 2003, at 12:19:53
Posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2003, at 15:19:53
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 9:06:50
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:40:20
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 9:11:43
I guess my response this morning was a bit of an overreaction. Of course Dr. Bob could hurt me worse.
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 17:43:02
In reply to Re: Thanks Kara Lynne and » crushedout, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:40:20
> I guess my response this morning was a bit of an overreaction. Of course Dr. Bob could hurt me worse.
>there goes that (half-joking) dry wit again!
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2003, at 17:45:38
In reply to Re: Thanks Kara Lynne and » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 17:43:02
Posted by gabbix2 on December 15, 2003, at 19:00:40
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » Dinah, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 9:11:43
The only thing that surprises me is the new ways Bob manages to surprise me.. It used to be the
ways he found to block people on technicalities in well meaning posts and now its the reverse.
Its crazy making.I believe its unethical.
I believe St James just said it best.
Change just isn't going to happenGod got lost in the religion
Posted by tabitha on December 15, 2003, at 19:06:12
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2003, at 8:36:39
For goodness sake, Bob, at the very very best it was a tough love post. He listed about a dozen of Dinah's supposed flaws, then at the end said this 'What you are reluctant to accept is that you've always been "enough"... ' which I read as a sort of back-handed compliment. Where did he get the idea that Dinah doesn't think she's enough, or that she's relucant to accept it? It had nothing to do with her original post. Pure speculation and does not sound supportive to me.
You've PBC'd tough love posts before that contained much less naming of the other person's supposed problems, but you let this one by. Look at the context, Dinah was trying to fill in some missing bits of memory of a traumatic experience, and that post suggested her memory was delusional. Delusional. What could be more unsupportive than that?
Posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2003, at 19:33:32
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » Dr. Bob, posted by tabitha on December 15, 2003, at 19:06:12
Why do I feel like this is a patriarchal bias?
Posted by gabbix2 on December 15, 2003, at 19:52:53
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2003, at 19:33:32
Posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:53:22
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by kara lynne on December 15, 2003, at 19:33:32
> Why do I feel like this is a patriarchal bias?
At the risk of sounding paranoid (to Bob) along with you, I had the EXACT same inkling. It really smells awful.
Posted by gabbix2 on December 16, 2003, at 0:47:35
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » kara lynne, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:53:22
Its not the first time the sexism issue has been raised. When I first started posting here I really didn't pay much attention. I see the pattern now.
Unfortunately in both the time I've been here and after looking into the archives I've seen many intelligent articulate caring people drive themselves crazy trying to find reason where there is none to be had.
Posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 0:50:36
In reply to Because you're an intelligent woman (nm) » kara lynne, posted by gabbix2 on December 15, 2003, at 19:52:53
Posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 0:51:37
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking » kara lynne, posted by crushedout on December 15, 2003, at 23:53:22
It is kind of stinky around here.
Posted by crushedout on December 16, 2003, at 1:00:07
In reply to Vote with your feet, folks, and leave. (nm), posted by stjames on December 15, 2003, at 12:44:03
like dr. bob cares if we leave. we'd just be shooting ourselves in the feet. i wish there was something productive we could do for OURSELVES since trying to reason with that man or getting him to acknowledge his own mistakes is like banging your head against one of the hardest brick walls i've ever tried to bang my head against (and that's saying a lot).
Posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 2:03:23
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 0:51:37
I think it's Calvin Klein's: 'Contradiction', for men.
Posted by fallsfall on December 16, 2003, at 7:18:37
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 2:03:23
We could post on our favorite boards about the problems we have. We could post supportive responses to other people. I find things that I can do that are helpful and productive.
Signed,
Pollyanna
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 16, 2003, at 8:30:16
In reply to Re: grumbling and obligatory thinking, posted by kara lynne on December 16, 2003, at 2:03:23
have to leave that one alone so i dont get banned
kara ..
happy thoughts happy thoughts happy thoughts
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:50:30
In reply to not touching that... » kara lynne, posted by justyourlaugh on December 16, 2003, at 8:30:16
Obviously I was hurt by Dr. Bob calling a post that referred to my delusions, grumbling, and disorganized mind supportive. But on the other hand, I don't see it as a patriarchal thing. Just an insensitive thing.
I have enough esteem for myself to think that I am even more than "enough". I have enough esteem for myself that I have no wish to be addressed like that. I had hoped that Dr. Bob would have enough esteem for me, and for all of us, not to want that either. I am disappointed to discover that is untrue.
I actually no longer think the original poster meant anything personal by it. He seems to tell the same sort of things to everyone.
But that doesn't make it acceptable under the current civility guidelines in my eyes.
And so I refuse to be shackled by the imperatives of others telling me what I should do in order to be cured in an instant. I refused to accept the blaming (grumbling, delusional, disorganized) words of others. I refuse to accept overgeneralizations and people who don't know me jumping to conclusions about me.
The past is past. Dr. Bob never gives retroactive PBC's. But I hope that in the future, Dr. Bob joins me in not accepting the above, many of which are, after all, embodied in the civility guidelines.
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 10:12:34
In reply to Re: Well......, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:50:30
When I said (grumbling, delusional, disorganized), I meant them as examples, not further adjectives.
Posted by judy1 on December 16, 2003, at 10:52:46
In reply to Re: Well......, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 9:50:30
Dinah,
I didn't want to get involved in this thread simply because I felt my voice would not help. What I do want to post is how much I admire your grace in your last post, and I hope if I'm ever exposed (again, it has happened to me in the past also), I'll be able to respond as well as you just did.
take care of yourself, judy
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2003, at 11:21:14
In reply to Re: Well...... » Dinah, posted by judy1 on December 16, 2003, at 10:52:46
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