![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Zo on October 30, 2002, at 16:36:13
In reply to Suggestion-Psycho-Babble Artist, posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2002, at 0:42:26
This was the most exciting post I've read in a long time! Made me realize how much I'd love a board such as you suggest. There is *so* much to hash out, amongst artists and anyone whose creativity is important to them. . .adding drugs to the artist's life in the way we do. .. is ripe for discussion. I think we could learn so much from each other.And I wonder if it shouldn't be on a site of its own. Or perhaps Bob wants to make "burbs." Having a board for artists using psych meds moderated by a non-artist - no offense, Bob, but that makes about as much sense as an artist admin monitoring doctor-speak.
I say, sidestep the hassle and heartbreak, and think of a whole 'nother way. Any ideas?
Amazing, amazing list of talents and accomplishments, Gracie! I'd love to see your work. Hmmm, a place for uploaded files/pics. .. . .
Warmly,
Zo
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
In reply to copyright, posted by oracle on October 30, 2002, at 10:57:14
> Those new board topics are interesting, but do you think having new non-med boards would inspire more people to post on them? All those topics are allowable on Social, yet there are times when Social has only a few new posts per day. Wouldn't adding more boards mean fewer posts on all of them? I'm afraid all the non-med boards might start to feel like sad little parties where there just aren't quite enough guests to get any momentum going.
Hmm, yes, that would be a risk. But someone might be more drawn to a party that's smaller if they're more sure that they'll find the conversation interesting, right?
> The med board has the most posts by far, so if any board needs splitting up, isn't it that one?
>
> TabßithaThe idea wouldn't be to split up PSB, but to try to stimulate, by setting aside room for, more discussion of those specific types.
----
> If people on these boards have been banned for quoting from literature that is well known and taught at a majority of universities then I fail to see how original works by these wonderfully creative types will fall inside your ever changing rules of civility.
>
> --AliiWell, sonnets can be original and creative, can't they? Even though they have to follow certain rules? Granted, those rules don't ever change...
Support would still be a higher priority than freedom of speech. So, unfortunately, those with a particular style or "voice" might be excluded.
----
> I see a big problem with the way copyrights are handled here. I would have a problem with "unrestricted use" of my original creative works.
>
> oracleGood point... What if that didn't apply to that board? So I'd ask for permission to reproduce those posts. Like anyone else would. Or at least should...
Bob
Posted by judy1 on October 30, 2002, at 22:33:44
In reply to Re: more new boards?, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 1:24:12
I would like to voice another vote for a substance abuse board- there seems (to me) to be more posts lately in that category. I also think by seperating them they would draw the attention of recovered abusers who might not pay attention to PSB, etc. thanks, judy
Posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 0:20:32
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2002, at 2:42:44
In reply to Re: more new boards? » Dr. Bob, posted by Tabßitha on October 30, 2002, at 2:03:58
I can see arguments both ways. In theory, the new boards should attract new people. And the more the merrier.
In practice I feel guilty every time I look at the book board. It looks so lonely.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 5:50:07
In reply to So not all mental illness is welcome here? (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 0:20:32
I don't under stand your comment Alli... why do you think not all mental illnesses are excepted here??
Nikki
Posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 6:17:25
In reply to Re: So not all mental illness is welcome here? » ~Alii~, posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 5:50:07
Because of this statement from an above post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/8023.html>>>If people on these boards have been banned for quoting from literature that is well known and taught at a majority of universities then I fail to see how original works by these wonderfully creative types will fall inside your ever changing rules of civility.<<< --Alii
>>>Well, sonnets can be original and creative, can't they? Even though they have to follow certain rules? Granted, those rules don't ever change...
Support would still be a higher priority than freedom of speech. So, unfortunately, those with a particular style or "voice" might be excluded.<<<--Dr. Bob
Nikki--
It's the particular style or "voice" Dr. Bob is alluding to excluding which leads me to believe that the entire spectrum of mental illnesses are no longer welcome in this community of cookie cutter support and civility.
Acceptance does not seem to be synonymous with mutual education and support---the beacons of this site according to the fearless leader.
--Alii
>>>>>I don't under stand your comment Alli... why do you think not all mental illnesses are excepted here??
Nikki<<<<<
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 6:31:05
In reply to Re: So not all mental illness is welcome here? » NikkiT2, posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 6:17:25
Sorry - I don't see that at all... All i see him saying is that posters would still have to stick to the civility guidelines.. thats all..
Nikki
Posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 6:54:04
In reply to Re: So not all mental illness is welcome here? » ~Alii~, posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 6:31:05
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 7:22:58
In reply to We see only what we want to see I guess.... (nm), posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 6:54:04
Pardon??? Are you saying that I am looking at this with a closed mind??
I could say the same to you, as you are constantly posting negative things about this board and Dr Bob... maybe you are reading into Dr Bobs message things that aren't really there.
I'm really quite offended by your implication that my mind is not open enough to "see what you see".
Nikki
Posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 10:19:36
In reply to Re: We see only what we want to see I guess...., posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 7:22:58
And I madam, am amazed that you interpret all that from my one line answer in the subject line.
We see what we want to. That is all.
As for implications? You are the one to put yours out there. I commend you for expressing yourself but imply away. I wrote one line that can be taken many ways *or* just taken as it was written.
You are free to be offended as you wish. My intent on this board has never been to set out with intent to offend.
I appreciate you took the time to respond since my posts seem to strike a nerve with you.
--Alii> Pardon??? Are you saying that I am looking at this with a closed mind??
>
> I could say the same to you, as you are constantly posting negative things about this board and Dr Bob... maybe you are reading into Dr Bobs message things that aren't really there.
>
> I'm really quite offended by your implication that my mind is not open enough to "see what you see".
>
> Nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 16:46:16
In reply to Re: We see only what we want to see I guess.... » NikkiT2, posted by ~Alii~ on October 31, 2002, at 10:19:36
Its not your posts per se that strike a nerve with me, but I really hate seeing Dr Bob critised all the time for trying to help.
I don't agree with everything he does, but i try to mould to it, as i enjoy being here, and i want my visits to this site to continue to be enjoyable.
Nikki
Posted by IsoM on October 31, 2002, at 16:52:02
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
Bob, while I was at first enthusiastic about having a PB Fiction, I'm not sure if it's going to work now.
-------"> If people on these boards have been banned for quoting from literature that is well known and taught at a majority of universities then I fail to see how original works by these wonderfully creative types will fall inside your ever changing rules of civility.
>
> --AliiWell, sonnets can be original and creative, can't they? Even though they have to follow certain rules? Granted, those rules don't ever change...
Support would still be a higher priority than freedom of speech. So, unfortunately, those with a particular style or "voice" might be excluded."
---------I think it's nice to have sweet, flowery prose if someone wishes to post it & yes, I also think you might want to have 'some' sort of limits (but not restraints) on what can be posted, but if all sorts of rules are going to be made about this board too, it would only cause more problems & curb creativity. And then, in the end, what would the purpose of this new board be? No more than spoon-fed Pablum.
Let's take something that we can all agree isn't vulgar & repugnant to anyone - Hemmingway's works. His writings are used in schools & not banned anywhere that I know of, but would you consider that his works are "supportive"? I can't see how anyone could think so. His pain is tangible, & I can't imagine how anyone could see support in his writings. So according to your post about support, he wouldn't be allowed to post, right?
The idea of a PB Fiction board is to allow people tormented & angst-ridden (I hate using that term, it sounds so cliche) to post as well as those who just wish a venue to release their creative writings. Can't we agree that not all writings may be suitable for everyone to read? Can't we have a new icon (perhaps a red warning icon) that would alert anyone who wouldn't wish to read such works? I was hoping that such a board would serve to help & heal those who need to express their pain somewhere & to share with others. It's not an unreasonable compromise to use a red warning icon. Please, Bob, consider that not everyone can look at life through rose coloured glasses, & those that can't, aren't out to hurt others. All they're doing is trying to reach someone who understands. There is a real need for an outlet to their pain.
Have you ever seen the pictures that child psychologists encourage traumatized kids to draw or paint? Some of them can be pretty horrific, but their purpose is to help a child express the pain & release bottled up memories to lead them to healing. Why can't PB Fiction be such a site for us? It may not be a flowered lined pathway to mental health but I doubt that it's going to be as harmful as you may imagine.
Posted by oracle on October 31, 2002, at 17:44:33
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
> > I see a big problem with the way copyrights are handled here. I would have a problem with "unrestricted use" of my original creative works.
> >
> > oracle
>
> Good point... What if that didn't apply to that board? So I'd ask for permission to reproduce those posts. Like anyone else would. Or at least should...
>
> BobThat would work for me.
Posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 23:09:15
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by oracle on October 31, 2002, at 17:44:33
How about some kind of shared goal support board, or topics? Kind of like a book club, but instead of agreeing to read a book, we agree to try some new healthy behavior. We'd offer each other support in carrying it out, and trade info on the results. For instance, a bunch of people agree to start taking fish oil supplements for a month and see what happens. Or somebody writes a guided visualization, and we make a tape of it and use it daily for a month. Or some kind of goal like doing one unusually assertive or unusually kind act per day.
If we couldn't get everyone to agree on one habit per month, we could have different threads going. Maybe only 3 people would be in the fish oil club/thread, for instance, and other threads would do other things.
The more I ramble on about this idea the more I like it.
Posted by IsoM on November 1, 2002, at 0:04:41
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
...from this link http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/8039.html
You may be busy & not had a chance to answer yet, but I would really like it if ideas could be bounced back & forth. That way when the board is initiated, both you & potential posters will be reasonably happy with a balanced, sound compromise.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2002, at 0:18:35
In reply to Re: We see only what we want to see I guess.... » ~Alii~, posted by NikkiT2 on October 31, 2002, at 16:46:16
> Its not your posts per se that strike a nerve with me, but I really hate seeing Dr Bob critised all the time for trying to help.
Thanks for your support, but I'd like to separate out this discussion. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/8051.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2002, at 11:28:30
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2002, at 19:41:04
Thanks, everybody, for great feedback.
The reason I suggested a separate thread for artists rather than posting "artistic-type" threads on PSB was not to exclude anyone, certainly. I'm just not sure that many posters would be terribly interested in reading about our creative accomplishments and problems, although I could be wrong about this! In my experience,
artist "chatrooms" are quite disappointing because, like other chatrooms, there's just too much bickering and flirting going on. I would love a chance to communicate with other artists,
celebrate their "high points", and discuss how to handle the "lows". This would include depression,
medication, "self-medicating", artist's block, social anxiety, warning signs (before my suicide attempt in February, I threw away 6 canvases that were in various stages of completion-at the time I just thought of it as "cleaning up", but in hindsight it appears to have been a huge red flag)
and other mental health issues WHEN they have an effect on our creativity. These problems are complex and, again, I'm not sure they would be welcome on PSB. As for posting original works, I think it would be best to keep the guidelines as simple as possible. Original works posted on PB remain the property of the writer and should not be used by other posters without specific consent of the writer. There MUST be guidelines of civility - i.e. no racial epithets, gay-bashing,
pornography, etc. The potential destructiveness
of such writing far outweighs any concern for infringement on freedom-of-speech rights.
-Gracie
PS. Thanks for the kind words, Zo.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2002, at 19:55:51
In reply to Re: more new boards » Dr. Bob, posted by IsoM on October 31, 2002, at 16:52:02
> I think it's nice to have sweet, flowery prose if someone wishes to post it & yes, I also think you might want to have 'some' sort of limits (but not restraints) on what can be posted, but if all sorts of rules are going to be made about this board too, it would only cause more problems & curb creativity.
Sorry about not replying sooner...
"Limits", but not "restraints"? Sorry, I should've been more clear, I was just thinking of the same old civility rules.
> Can't we agree that not all writings may be suitable for everyone to read? Can't we have a new icon (perhaps a red warning icon) that would alert anyone who wouldn't wish to read such works? I was hoping that such a board would serve to help & heal those who need to express their pain somewhere & to share with others...
The issue here, IMO, is balancing the needs of posters and readers. Expressing their pain in an uncivil way may help the poster and some readers, but may hurt other readers. And in general, I'd rather have fewer people helped than more people hurt.
> > It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilMaybe Gracie said it better above...
And if people need to be warned about a post, I'd rather it just be posted elsewhere and linked to here...
Bob
Posted by ~Alii~ on November 1, 2002, at 20:33:56
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2002, at 19:55:51
>>>The issue here, IMO, is balancing the needs of posters and readers. Expressing their pain in an uncivil way may help the poster and some readers, but may hurt other readers. And in general, I'd rather have fewer people helped than more people hurt.<<<
So we're (the posters on these boards) only as strong as our weakest link?
Posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2002, at 22:33:27
In reply to climbers go as slow as the slowest member? hmm.... » Dr. Bob, posted by ~Alii~ on November 1, 2002, at 20:33:56
I obviously have an interest in this, as I suggested the PB-Artist site.
I consider myself to be an artist and I understand the artistic mentality. I know how it feels to want to convey a new idea, a new way of looking at things, to the general public. I understand your apprehension at being edited.
However, PB is not an underground newspaper. It's a site that was developed for those that wish to discuss their mental problems, their psychiatric treatments and medications.
In the years that I've been posting on PB, Dr. Bob has operated mostly as a host. He does not comment on the different therapies and medications employed by other doctors. He doesn't tolerate rudeness, which I agree with, as PB sites
were always meant to operate as a means of understanding and support for other posters. He doesn't allow discussion of overseas pharmaceuticals, which I disagree with for various reasons, but this is a website that was created by and would not be in existance except for him, so I respect his ban on discussion of this subject.
I've read some very interesting comments on this thread. One was that Dr. Bob would not be qualified to comment on artistic matters any more than an artist would be qualified to comment on medicine. This is rather unfair. In the first place, I don't think that Dr. Bob would offer opinions on art any more than he advises on psychiatric treatment, something he is surely qualified to do but does not. He has obviously defined his role as mediator and keeps his personal opinions in check. Second, Dr. Bob has a creative streak of his own. If that wasn't apparent by the creation of the website and it's constant updating and refinement (I particularly
admired the fact that a poster stopped recieved
notice of his own posting), the different pictures of Dr. Bob in the heading are pretty good evidence.
If you have climbed above the rest, prehaps you will blaze a trail that others can follow. If we didn't need help, we wouldn't be here. Still, you're kind of underestimating the rest of us,
positive that we could never understand your message unless you have unlimited freedom of speech. You're also underestimating yourself,
sure that you could never translate your message on this site unless it's couched in "flowery prose". Not true.
-gracie
Posted by Alii on November 2, 2002, at 1:29:45
In reply to Re: climbers go as slow as the slowest member? hmm...., posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2002, at 22:33:27
Or is to me specifically? (I'm seriously asking as I don't understand if you are speaking out to the world as I often do in my posts or to me as a singular person) I'm confused with your usage of:
Still, you're kind of underestimating the rest of us,positive that we could never understand your message unless you have unlimited freedom of speech. You're also underestimating yourself,sure that you could never translate your message on this site unless it's couched in "flowery prose". Not true.Are you writing your post addressed to the population at PB or to any specific poster?
Confusedly asking,
Alii
Posted by shar on November 2, 2002, at 10:30:15
In reply to Re: more new boards, posted by Gracie2 on November 1, 2002, at 11:28:30
> warning signs (before my suicide attempt in February, I threw away 6 canvases that were in various stages of completion-at the time I just thought of it as "cleaning up", but in hindsight it appears to have been a huge red flag)
........G, this is such an excellent point, and good information for anyone with an artist in their life. Whew. It is the type of thing that wouldn't have flagged my attention before you said it.
Shar
Posted by Gracie2 on November 3, 2002, at 16:13:57
In reply to Gracie2 is your above post to the public at large?, posted by Alii on November 2, 2002, at 1:29:45
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2002, at 4:39:38
In reply to Re: healthy habits club board, posted by Ç®ëëþý Tabitha on October 31, 2002, at 23:09:15
> How about some kind of shared goal support board, or topics? Kind of like a book club, but instead of agreeing to read a book, we agree to try some new healthy behavior. We'd offer each other support in carrying it out, and trade info on the results. For instance, a bunch of people agree to start taking fish oil supplements for a month and see what happens. Or somebody writes a guided visualization, and we make a tape of it and use it daily for a month. Or some kind of goal like doing one unusually assertive or unusually kind act per day.
>
> If we couldn't get everyone to agree on one habit per month, we could have different threads going. Maybe only 3 people would be in the fish oil club/thread, for instance, and other threads would do other things.
>
> The more I ramble on about this idea the more I like it.I've been thinking about it, and I like it, too. Would it necessarily be preferable to agree on a different healthy behavior each month? What about ongoing support for multiple healthy behaviors? They could have different threads on the same board -- or different boards. What do others think?
Bob
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.