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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 159. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 9:34:46
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway. » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 9:21:30
Answer:
Someone who makes everyone on all sides angry. :)
I was just trying to think the best of everyone, and try to encourage a constructive conversation.
I tried. Carry on with what you were doing everyone.
The Dinah contingent has officially removed itself from the PB peace accord. Attempts at diplomacy will only be re-established at the request of both parties.
Henry Kissinger, where are you?
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
In reply to Re: Besides Lou...., posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:38:03
I feel like part of this does involve admin, because we (well I am, and I think Kiddo is too) that we are just telling of our experiences and beliefs and we should be allowed to do that just as Lou has been allowed to tell his "experiences". I never, EVER said he didn't have these experiences, nor that his beliefs are wrong. I never said "Jews are bad" or anything like that. All I'm saying (and I think Kiddo is as well) is that we believe in the Bible. Old and New Testament, through and through. I won't go into all my beliefs here, for the sake of keeping this administrative. I have not rocked the boat by reading and responding to Lou. I just feel that if he's able to talk about his story/beliefs, anyone else can talk about theirs.
Furthermore, I am not against gays (I have a gay friend in-fact), alcoholics (I have many of those friends) and my list goes on. I do not shut people out because they are Jewish, gay or alcoholic. I sort of "shut my eyes" to Lou because I get frustrated conversing with him, so for ME that was the best thing to do. I'm not saying that is for everyone to do. I'm not on a "Block Lou forever" bandwagon. I'm just saying what seems to be working for me.
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:45:47
In reply to What is the definition of a diplomat?, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 9:34:46
Keep the peace :) You are a great person, and I appreciate you.
Posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
In reply to Maybe on Faith and Admin. » Dinah, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
Hiya SD-
Nothing was said by Lou until Dr Bob said something, then it became a free-for-all.
I'd like to know where Dr. Bob is now...I feel ganged upon, unsupported, accused, put-down. Where is he when I'd like/need a little support? I don't think it matters, I won't get any support.
Now Lou won't respond to my questions, which I feel are valid, even though I'm *supposed* to be anti-semitic...which I feel is exactly what his comments to me have become.
Would you kindly email me at leeandra@_DELETE_survivorscorner.com Just take out the underscore and delete....
Thanks-Kiddo
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 10:57:46
In reply to Maybe on Faith and Admin. » Dinah, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
Naw, Sandra.
The part I was trying to move to Faith was a discussion of the various categories of Jewish leaders, the Pharisees, Saducees, and scribes, and the historical context in which Jesus made remarks about them. And speculating on what he meant by those remarks.
I felt that discussion belonged on the Faith Board. Not the Admin board. But probably it belongs no where, because probably no one but me finds it fascinating. :)
And thanks. I grew up as the designated peacemaker in a warring family, and I tend to carry that with me.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 11:02:46
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » SandraDee, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
Kiddo,
Now I posted several responses to your posts on the faith board recently , and they were before Dr. Bob admonished you for the "wrong road" post.
Now my responses to your post were to clarify what you meant by "saved", water and spirit" and such. You have not responded to those posts. Now since I was in the process of responding to you, I believe that I was showing that I was going to continue to respond to your posts. And I still will. You understand that responing to an internet post is optionable. It is not mandatory.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 11:08:55
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » SandraDee, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
Sorry you feel unsupported kiddo.
By my count you were supported on this thread alone by shar, greg, oddipus rex, and sandra. And whether you believe it or not, by me. I don't think for a moment that you are anti-semitic.
I have always valued our friendship and think very highly of you. And I always will.
Posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 11:11:02
In reply to Lou's response to Kiddo's post » kiddo, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 11:02:46
You understand that responing to an internet post is optionable. It is not mandatory.
> LouReally? I wasn't talking about those posts, I'm talking about the ones I responded to where you accuse me of being anti-semitic. Which I believe your comments are the same but against Christians instead.
Why didn't you have a problem with it before Dr. Bob said something?
Kiddo
Posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 11:12:08
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » kiddo, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 11:08:55
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 11:22:42
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » SandraDee, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
And check your email :)
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 11:22:56
In reply to Re:Kiddos response to Lous response to Kiddos post » Lou Pilder, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 11:11:02
Kiddo,
I did have a "problem with it" before Dr. Bob flagged your post. You see, I am not through responding to your posts. I only have a limited time to answer posts here like evryone else.
Now your posts demand that I answer them comprehensivly. And those answers are being prepared. I will address your post on the Crown of Life, in referrence to your way of seeing it and how many other people see it differantly. I will address your post on being saved by water and spirit. I will address your post that Dr. Bob flagged in such comprehensive detail that it will take me a week!
Lou
Posted by Phil on July 20, 2002, at 11:39:02
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » kiddo, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 11:08:55
Posted by OddipusRex on July 20, 2002, at 12:22:37
In reply to I support you. » kiddo, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 11:22:42
> Me too in case I didn't make that clear. I don't know how to offer support really except I was so shocked last night and I think you are clearly not anti-semitic. I don't understand the rules here that's for sure but I thought you stated your beliefs clearly and without offense to any one. I like you. I hope your not too upset or hurt still. Maybe administrative support will arrive but even if it doesn't it's possible to accept someone else's rules and live with them without believing he is right. I hope you won't leave. As soon as I delurked a bunch of my favorite posters left. I haven't read a lot of religous posts I know you mostly as the book club lady. Well I offer you support again as much as possible this side of those parenthetical hugs-I'm on the shy side. Hope you have a good day.
Posted by mair on July 20, 2002, at 12:44:21
In reply to Re: I support you., posted by OddipusRex on July 20, 2002, at 12:22:37
I support kiddo. She's right, Lou never said a word about her post being accusatory until Bob cautioned her. More importantly, there was nothing inherently accusatory in kiddo's post, and if Lou really found it so he could have stated this so much more gently. However, I would be very offended and feel very "accused" if someone baldly called me an anti-semite.
Why such a double standard?
Mair
Posted by Phil on July 20, 2002, at 13:01:35
In reply to He shouldn't get away with this, posted by mair on July 20, 2002, at 12:44:21
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 13:03:48
In reply to He shouldn't get away with this, posted by mair on July 20, 2002, at 12:44:21
As he usually is on weekends (and everyone always seems to know this, because.... well never mind).
Perhaps there could be a cease fire until he returns. Or at least a cease fire at accusing Dr. Bob of things he hasn't yet done.
I'm enjoying all the standard verbiage quite a bit and finding it all very informative. And I'm crediting Dr. Bob with the ego strength to get through it. But it doesn't feel quite sporting to start its use before he even returns. I'm sure everyone will get a chance to hand him the party line later.
By the way to be clear, I am only adding my comment to this post because it is the last one on the thread. I am not accusing Mair of anything and hold her in the highest regard.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 13:06:20
In reply to He shouldn't get away with this, posted by mair on July 20, 2002, at 12:44:21
mair,
The rhetoric that Kiddo is posting has been used for 100s of years to arouse anti-Semitic feelings toward the jewish people. The thought that Kiddo posted about the pharisees being hypocrites is defaming to jewish people. The accusation that the pharisees attributed the casting out of devils by Beelzabub by the jesus that Kiddo is talking about has been used for 100s of years to foster the idea that the jews did not accept the claim that the jesus that Kiddo was referring to was sent by God. When all of Kiddos posts are tied together, it is inescapable that the conclusion is the the jews "are on the wrong road". Now Dr. Bob flaggd that post , and I think rightfully so. Now I am interested in your thought as to why Kiddo should be supported . No one is calling Kiddo an anti-Semite. I am just saying that the posts cross the line into he area of anti-Semitic rhetoric because they defame the jewish people by saying that the jews that do not attribute the casting out of devils ,by the jesus that Kiddo is referring to, to God , but to Beelzabub and that the calling of the pharisees as hypocrites is defaming to the jewish people.
Lou
Posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 13:37:08
In reply to Re: I believe Dr. Bob is away, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 13:03:48
> As he usually is on weekends (and everyone always seems to know this, because.... well never mind).
>Don't know, just know he isn't *here.*
> Perhaps there could be a cease fire until he returns. Or at least a cease fire at accusing Dr. Bob of things he hasn't yet done.
Nothing I would love more, perhaps if someone could apologize for calling me anti-semitic and my posts as rhetoric...there was no need for that. I have a different belief, which I should be able to express without being accused of things. I don't know who's accusing Dr. Bob of what.>
> I'm enjoying all the standard verbiage quite a bit and finding it all very informative. And I'm crediting Dr. Bob with the ego strength to get through it. But it doesn't feel quite sporting to start its use before he even returns. I'm sure everyone will get a chance to hand him the party line later.
>I'm glad someone is enjoying themselves. Perhaps Dr. Bob will have the ego strength, but he isn't here at the moment. I apologize for this not being sporting enough for you, but I don't consider this a game. Better believe I'll inform him-I look at it as "take a number".
> By the way to be clear, I am only adding my comment to this post because it is the last one on the thread. I am not accusing Mair of anything and hold her in the highest regard.
I'm replying to your post...If you didn't mean it that way, I apologize in advance, but that's how I took it...
Kiddo
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 13:50:45
In reply to Re: I believe Dr. Bob is away » Dinah, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 13:37:08
>
> I'm replying to your post...
>
> If you didn't mean it that way, I apologize in advance, but that's how I took it...
>
>
>
> KiddoNo I meant it that way. So no need to apologize. That is if you think I mean that Dr. Bob is away and hasn't yet responded to this thread. There have been a few sentiments expressed on this thread that would seem to be best expressed after Dr. Bob has had a chance to respond. And since Dr. Bob usually doesn't respond on weekends, no matter what holy heck is breaking loose here, I always assume he's out of town, or enjoying a well earned rest with his family.
However, I might be being a bit paranoid. Various posts lately have sounded like people have been sitting around at some location or other working themselves up into a frenzy of self righteous Bob-bashing. And using the same words over and over, as if they'd just attended a meeting of Recovery, Inc. and memorized the handbook. And if anyone mentions patriarchal male domination, I swear I'll scream. Now I fully admit to that possibly being incorrect. I do have problems with extrapolation sometimes. And if so I apologize.
I don't really see this as a game. I see it as a rotten shame. With the biggest casualties coming from those of us who detest conflict.
Perhaps you are angry with me over this. That is your right. Just as it is my right to always remember you with fondness.
Dinah Rose
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 13:57:23
In reply to Re: please be supportive » Dr. Bob, posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 17:42:46
Friends,
Click on the web site below of the decree to expell the jews from Spain by Queen Isabel in 1492
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/ALHAMBRA_DECREE.htmI would like to share this with you as history and, perhaps, we can discuss it.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by IsoM on July 20, 2002, at 14:04:24
In reply to Lou's response to Mair's post » mair, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 13:06:20
If someone were to say “My Jewish neighbour burned their store down to collect fire insurance” would that be construed as anti-Semitic? Or if someone said “My Christian neighbour committed adultery with his co-worker” would that be anti-Christian? How about when news reports state that Islamic fundamentalists bomb a market place? Or when Muslim & Orthodox Catholics murder each other in another hot spot? Was it anti-Sikh when it was said that Indira Gandhi’s assassins were her Sikh bodyguards?
Get real! It’s reporting all the facts, rather the bare bones, of what happened. When the news state that a murderer was a 45 year old male postal employee, it’s not discriminating against men, postal employees, or 45 year olds & no on in their right mind thinks that.
“What book depicts Jews as hypocrites, apostates, liars, and sinners? What book denounces Jewish leaders and the Jewish nation? What book scolds its priests, claims its Temple services are corrupt, and spews forth warnings that God's judgments will fall upon the Jews? What book - accusing the Jews of murder, corruption, greed, and robbery - declares that they have forsaken God?
“Yet the book described in the opening paragraph is not the New Testament - it is the Old! Indeed, if the criteria for determining anti-Judaism in the New Testament were applied to the Old, it would be declared the more anti-Jewish of the two.”
(quoted from Is the New Testament Anti-Semitic? by Clifford Goldstein, Liberty, March/April 1992 - http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/newtest.html )In fact, some of the strongest rhetoric comes from the book of Ezekiel (Yehezkel or Yichezq'el of the Hebrew Tanach). In Ezekiel 3:7, it says “But the house of Israel will not consent to hearken unto thee; for they consent not to hearken unto Me; for all the house of Israel are of a hard forehead and of a stiff heart.” A Jewish prophet writing in the Jewish Tanach for the Jewish people… hmm. Was he anti-Semitic?
Posted by beardedlady on July 20, 2002, at 14:30:10
In reply to Re: I believe Dr. Bob is away » kiddo, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 13:50:45
> I don't really see this as a game. I see it as a rotten shame. With the biggest casualties coming from those of us who detest conflict.
How much could you detest it, Dinah, when you seem to put yourself right in the middle of it every time? Someone says something about Lou, and you post how bad you feel about it. Someone says something about Dr. Bob, and you post how bad you feel about it. Peace is not made by racing back and forth to support every side of an argument. Peace is made through compromise and hard work.
> Various posts lately have sounded like people have been sitting around at some location or other working themselves up into a frenzy of self righteous Bob-bashing. And using the same words over and over, as if they'd just attended a meeting of Recovery, Inc. and memorized the handbook.
I think this is a horrible thing to say. I really do.
I have marched on Washington in protest over nuclear weapons, and I have been part of candlelight vigils for peace--as long ago as 1982 and as recently as last spring. I have heard the "America: Love it or Leave it" slogan so many times from people who don't understand how much we treasure our American identities. But just because you live in the best place in the world doesn't mean you shouldn't always strive to make it better. Everything, everyone, can improve.
And just because Psycho Babble happens to be the best board with some super people here, it doesn't mean that some of those people can't or shouldn't work to make it better.
Yes, sometimes that means conflict. Rather than making peace with everyone, you contribute to that conflict. And that's okay! It's perfectly okay to be involved in a debate! But it's not okay to claim yourself a casualty of that debate, while disregarding the feelings of those who would like to improve this site.
Iso, Zo, Wendy, KK, and I are not sitting around by the campfire with our laptops, toasting marshmallows and waiting to pounce on Dr. Bob or Lou or you or anyone else. But we do lurk, as is our right. And we do pop in now and again when we have something to say or to support those who seem to be treated unfairly here.
The conflicts are happening in our absence, not because of us.
beardy
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 14:42:21
In reply to PB: Love it or Leave it? » Dinah, posted by beardedlady on July 20, 2002, at 14:30:10
Nope. I'm not going to apologize this time. I can hate conflict and be horrendously hurt by it and still think that it is important to do what I think is right. You aren't going to make me feel guilty this time. I have worked my patootie off to make this a pleasant place. And I have always tried to be more than civil to everyone. And I have grovelled when I thought I might have offended. But no more.
Did I mention anyone by name? I don't think so, nor was I thinking of the names you mentioned particularly. What was that you said to me once about my being so self absorbed that I thought everything posted was about me? I believe the example was given on PPB if you would like me to provide a link.
Dr. Bob has a right to give me a please be civil. No one else does. If he thinks I'm being uncivil, I'll take it like a man.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 14:49:40
In reply to PB: Love it or Leave it? » Dinah, posted by beardedlady on July 20, 2002, at 14:30:10
And we do pop in now and again when we have something to say or to support those who seem to be treated unfairly here.
> .
>
> beardyBy the way, why is it right to do that when you do it and wrong to do it when I do it.
Posted by beardedlady on July 20, 2002, at 14:57:13
In reply to Re: PB: Love it or Leave it? » beardedlady, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 14:49:40
Dinah:
I wasn't assuming you meant anyone in particular. I put those names in myself, not because I thought you were talking about me, but because it didn't matter to whom you were referring. I thought you had made a rude statement in general, not in specific.
And it's not right when I do it and wrong when others do. I believe my whole post said it was right when people protest to make a place better. What's wrong is to complain that you're a casualty of the very conflict you help to create.
And no one is asking for an apology. Good for you. It's about time.
beardy
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