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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
The Salvation Army provides a powerful witness through effective service and citizenship. If anyone got help from me, thank God instead for his wise provision to you. Here are some of the 100's of thank-you notes I got this year:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010424/msgs/61053.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010424/msgs/60976.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20001231/msgs/50906.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010708/msgs/69439.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/74002.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010507/msgs/62908.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60506.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/74191.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010804/msgs/74227.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010731/msgs/73145.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010618/msgs/67220.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010515/msgs/63277.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010612/msgs/66660.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010708/msgs/69672.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010618/msgs/67190.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010828/msgs/76796.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010417/msgs/60249.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010507/msgs/62541.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010507/msgs/62970.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010822/msgs/76139.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010424/msgs/61745.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010822/msgs/76559.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010701/msgs/68881.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010725/msgs/72539.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010828/msgs/76730.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010515/msgs/63101.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010424/msgs/61502.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010612/msgs/66775.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010625/msgs/68000.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010424/msgs/61468.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010828/msgs/76844.html--J.T., Soldier: USA West Territory, Sierra Del Mar and Southern California Divisions
Posted by Cam W. on August 29, 2001, at 18:55:24
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20001231/msgs/50906.html
This link is 3rd from the top in yours.
ROTFLMAO - Cam
Posted by stjames on August 29, 2001, at 21:21:42
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
GO TO HELL SAL
Posted by Mair on August 29, 2001, at 21:43:17
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
> What's the point of all this. I haven't heard anyone suggest that you haven't been helpful, but please note, that from my check anyway, the posts which triggered all of those thank yous contained no mention of your religious ardor. You might want to consider that it can be a real turn off for some people and may have the unfortunate effect of discouraging some from asking for your assistance or causing some to give less credence to what you say. If you want to engage in religious discourse with particular posters that's fine, but I do think you're hurting yourself when all of the attention is directed to the secondary messages of your posts.
I'm beyond curious about the fact that from my observation anyway, you rarely if ever respond directly to any criticism. You do not defend yourself. I read these threads where complaints are made about your proseletyzing or your tendency to refer people to other sites or to quote lengthy sections of technical reports and by and large, you are the absent party. It's like all of these discussions occur about you as if you weren't around. It would be nice to hear you respond to some of this stuff directly. Otherwise it just seems like you're hiding behind the veneer of your religion so you don't really need to engage. What Gives??
Mair
Posted by Willow on August 29, 2001, at 22:00:08
In reply to Soldier Sal, posted by Mair on August 29, 2001, at 21:43:17
I hope you are content on seeing where this has lead. Hopefully you have the good grace not to jump on anyone!
Weeping Willow
Posted by Zo on August 30, 2001, at 1:06:20
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
Jason,
Are you okay?
Zo
Posted by Cam W. on August 30, 2001, at 1:33:19
In reply to Re: SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOL » SalArmy4me, posted by Zo on August 30, 2001, at 1:06:20
Zo - If he took the tryptophan (2g) with the moclobemide (1600mg or so), he could be in serious trouble (ie. there is a risk of serotonin syndrome).
His post where he recommends Ludiomil (maprotiline) was a badly designed study. It is funny that he missed that; because under the abstract he recopied a letter to the editor that, point by point, showed the glaring errors in the study design that, an in essence, invalidated the study. It was as if he didn't read what he had pasted.
He then came back saying that there was much evidence of maprotiline efficacy. Clinically, the drug really on works in only a small subgroup of depressed people. Caution must also be used in those who have heart disease and diabetes. Jason never mentioned any of this.
I have noticed a change in him ever since he started the moclobemide. Ordinarily, moclobemide does not cause many CNS side effects (ie. mania, mood disturbance) unless taken with sympathomimetic drugs (esp. cocaine or amphetamines). He may be wise to have his blood pressure checked.
The minor delusions of grandeur (if that's what they are, possibly, hypomania?) are reminiscent of the onset of psychotic episode (as could be the religious component of his latest posts). I cannot be sure of this, though; as these symptoms can be from a drug-drug interaction, as well.
Jason should see a doctor, and since he doesn't listen to any of us, perhaps using the Sally Ann (a group he trusts) may be the way to get him the help he needs.
Sincerely, Cam
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 30, 2001, at 14:02:06
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
Sal,
I class myself as Buddhist these days... The basis if Buddhism is about understanding and acceptance in a very chilled way. But it seems, your "religion" is based on non-exceptance and a need to confirm to some entity's wishes.
You are being offensive by blasting your beliefs around.
I could sit here and list peoples email addresses who think highly of me, or indeed post many m nay more posts than you of people thanking Cam, who is a genuine, true, loving person.
I rarely dislike people, I am one of natures loving people, but you Sal disgust me with your antiquated views and beliefs.
Yours, not sincerely
Nikki
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2001, at 11:20:22
In reply to Re: SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER » SalArmy4me, posted by NikkiT2 on August 30, 2001, at 14:02:06
> You are being offensive by blasting your beliefs around.
> I rarely dislike people, I am one of natures loving people, but you Sal disgust me with your antiquated views and beliefs.
Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if they hurt yours. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place. Please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put others down. Usually it's more productive to talk about how you feel than what someone else has done, for example, to use an "I-statement" like "I feel put down by what you said" instead of a "you statement" like "you're so arrogant".
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 31, 2001, at 16:40:43
In reply to Re: please be civil » NikkiT2, posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2001, at 11:20:22
Posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 17:27:58
In reply to SalArmy4me Present 4 Duty: Servant, citizenSOLDIER, posted by SalArmy4me on August 29, 2001, at 18:39:20
> The Salvation Army provides a powerful witness through effective service and citizenship. If anyone got help from me, thank God instead for his wise provision to you. Here are some of the 100's of thank-you notes I got this year:
< snip >
I just looked at this thread today. I know it's old, but it really struck me, and I felt like it would be worthwhile to post my thoughts.
Sal:
Can you explain why you made this post (http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20010718/msgs/1835.html)? That is, what goal did you seek to achieve by enumerating all these posts in which someone thanked you? (Well, a couple of them weren't, but that's not especially relevant.)
Didn't you say at some point in the past (perhaps on Usenet) that you're bipolar or that you have a history of AD-induced mania or hypomania? Forgive me if I'm mistaken; the recollection is a vague one. Have you unequivocally ruled out the possibility of bipolar? I'd like to know if you are taking a mood stabiliser of any sort along with the moclobemide. If not, I suggest that you talk to your psychiatrist (if you're seeing one) about the possibility of adding something to your current regimen to smooth things out a little. Just the fact that you compiled this list of posts (which, regardless of your intent, appears to have come across as odd and/or self-aggrandising to a number of readers) suggests to me that you might be a little bit too revved up. Psychomotor agitation seems to be a common problem with moclobemide, and of course there is always the possibility of mania, even in unipolar patients.
This is just my interpretation based on my observations. Comments are welcome. I'm trying to be supportive of and helpful to Sal as a person even though I think that his behaviour is peculiar and may be a sign of distorted perceptions (which could result from dramatic mood swings).
-elizabeth
Posted by shelliR on September 15, 2001, at 21:51:31
In reply to antidepressant-induced hypomania and/or agitation » SalArmy4me, posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 17:27:58
This is just my interpretation based on my observations. Comments are welcome. I'm trying to be supportive of and helpful to Sal as a person even though I think that his behaviour is peculiar and may be a sign of distorted perceptions (which could result from dramatic mood swings).
>
> -elizabeth
Elizabeth,I'm a little bit thrown off. Sal made this list two weeks ago. This issue was during a very fractious time on the board; Sal felt the need to defend himself, and the conflict has mostly been resolved. I don't think it is in anyone's interest to revisit it. I also don't believe that one should overstep boundaries on the board in suggesting what someone's diagnosis is or how to medicate it-unless one is directly asked-even if the motives are out of a self of "helpfulness". One might also call this "self-aggrandising". I'm sure you recall an episode when people began to analyze you and make assumptions about you because of the frequency of your posts. So, I would remind you, "do unto other, etc."
Lots of people are always calling upon you for help (including me) , so it's not like there's nowhere to put your smarts and energy. :-)Shelli
p.s., I'm probably being a bit harsh. I do think because you have so much knowledge, you have to focus on when and how to use it.
Posted by stjames on September 17, 2001, at 22:34:28
In reply to antidepressant-induced hypomania and/or agitation » SalArmy4me, posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 17:27:58
> This is just my interpretation based on my observations. Comments are welcome. I'm trying to be supportive of and helpful to Sal as a person even though I think that his behaviour is peculiar and may be a sign of distorted perceptions (which could result from dramatic mood swings).
>
> -elizabethJames here...
Elizabeth, I agree with you totally. Jason has mentioned BP before. In the past his posts would come in spirts. I have asked him about BP and if he is OK in the past and others have. He will not
discuss this with us and always seems to post at arms length. It conserns me that someone with BP is going thru all the meds a-z. Or anyone for that matter.James
Posted by shelliR on September 17, 2001, at 23:03:40
In reply to Re: antidepressant-induced hypomania and/or agitation, posted by stjames on September 17, 2001, at 22:34:28
> > This is just my interpretation based on my observations. Comments are welcome. I'm trying to be supportive of and helpful to Sal as a person even though I think that his behaviour is peculiar and may be a sign of distorted perceptions (which could result from dramatic mood swings).
> >
> > -elizabeth
>
> James here...
>
> Elizabeth, I agree with you totally. Jason has mentioned BP before. In the past his posts would come in spirts. I have asked him about BP and if he is OK in the past and others have. He will not
> discuss this with us and always seems to post at arms length. It conserns me that someone with BP is going thru all the meds a-z. Or anyone for that matter.
>
> JamesThis is exactly what I anticipated when I read Eliz's post and and that's why it bothered me so. It was an invitation to bring up the same arguments, even by the same people. And the bait was taken. It is amazing to me that some people feel that Sal has an obligation to discuss his diagnosis with the members of the board. Wrong now, and it was wrong the other dozen times it's been brought up. At what point could this be considered harrassment?
Dr. Bob, at what point does taking about another board member's possible diagnosis without that person's participation turn into a lack of civility issue?
Shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 8:51:08
In reply to Re: A civility issue, Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on September 17, 2001, at 23:03:40
> This is exactly what I anticipated when I read Eliz's post and and that's why it bothered me so. It was an invitation to bring up the same arguments, even by the same people. And the bait was taken.
I'm not sure I'd see these last couple posts in these terms, but in general, with so many fish here, I'm afraid it's unlikely that bait will go untouched...
> It is amazing to me that some people feel that Sal has an obligation to discuss his diagnosis with the members of the board. Wrong now, and it was wrong the other dozen times it's been brought up. At what point could this be considered harrassment?
It's complicated. I agree that no one has any obligation to discuss their diagnosis, though of course they're free to do so if they wish. As far as people discussing someone else's diagnosis -- or possible diagnosis -- I think while sometimes it's accusatory, sometimes it does come from concern.
These last couple posts seemed OK to me, but I agree we need to watch where this leads. How does that sound?
Bob
Posted by shelliR on September 18, 2001, at 9:32:57
In reply to Re: talking about another board member, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2001, at 8:51:08
> > This is exactly what I anticipated when I read Eliz's post and and that's why it bothered me so. It was an invitation to bring up the same arguments, even by the same people. And the bait was taken.
>
> I'm not sure I'd see these last couple posts in these terms, but in general, with so many fish here, I'm afraid it's unlikely that bait will go untouched...
>
> > It is amazing to me that some people feel that Sal has an obligation to discuss his diagnosis with the members of the board. Wrong now, and it was wrong the other dozen times it's been brought up. At what point could this be considered harrassment?
>
> It's complicated. I agree that no one has any obligation to discuss their diagnosis, though of course they're free to do so if they wish. As far as people discussing someone else's diagnosis -- or possible diagnosis -- I think while sometimes it's accusatory, sometimes it does come from concern.
>
> These last couple posts seemed OK to me, but I agree we need to watch where this leads. How does that sound?
>
> BobTaken out of context perhaps the last posts could sound okay, but the last poster is the same one who told Sal "to go to hell" earlier in the thread. So as far as coming from a place of concern, I don't think so.
But okay, as long as you are aware.Shelli
Posted by Kristi on September 21, 2001, at 11:23:07
In reply to Re: antidepressant-induced hypomania and/or agitation » Elizabeth, posted by shelliR on September 15, 2001, at 21:51:31
>
> This is just my interpretation based on my observations. Comments are welcome. I'm trying to be supportive of and helpful to Sal as a person even though I think that his behaviour is peculiar and may be a sign of distorted perceptions (which could result from dramatic mood swings).
> >
> > -elizabeth
>
>
> Elizabeth,
>
> I'm a little bit thrown off. Sal made this list two weeks ago. This issue was during a very fractious time on the board; Sal felt the need to defend himself, and the conflict has mostly been resolved. I don't think it is in anyone's interest to revisit it. I also don't believe that one should overstep boundaries on the board in suggesting what someone's diagnosis is or how to medicate it-unless one is directly asked-even if the motives are out of a self of "helpfulness". One might also call this "self-aggrandising". I'm sure you recall an episode when people began to analyze you and make assumptions about you because of the frequency of your posts. So, I would remind you, "do unto other, etc."
>
> Lots of people are always calling upon you for help (including me) , so it's not like there's nowhere to put your smarts and energy. :-)
>
> Shelli
>
> p.s., I'm probably being a bit harsh. I do think because you have so much knowledge, you have to focus on when and how to use it.
This is the end of the thread.
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