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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2022, at 10:54:40
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11339972/
I researched it because I was thinking of short acting beta blockers that may or may not get me to sleep easier after intense exercise.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 8, 2022, at 14:25:01
In reply to Pindolol may improve antidepressant action, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2022, at 10:54:40
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11339972/
>
> I researched it because I was thinking of short acting beta blockers that may or may not get me to sleep easier after intense exercise.
>Pindolol have come up here before:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pindolol&sitesearch=dr-bob.org-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:35:01
In reply to Pindolol may improve antidepressant action, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2022, at 10:54:40
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11339972/
>
> I researched it because I was thinking of short acting beta blockers that may or may not get me to sleep easier after intense exercise.In the 1990s, pindolol was reported to "hasten" the response to standard antidepressants (not increase the statistical response rate). The explanation at the time was that in addition to blocking adrenergic beta receptors, it also agonized (stimulated) 5-HT(1A) receptors, which I believe act as an inhibitory autoreceptor along serotonin axons. Pindolol tends to "mute" and interrupt the signal (action potential) carried down the axons of these neurons. Using pindolol as an augmenter of antidepressants didn't catch on back then.
However...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10727715/
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2022, at 2:17:36
In reply to Re: Pindolol may improve antidepressant action » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:35:01
Do you think it would help for the purpose of calming down the fight or flight mode after exercise in order to sleep?
Posted by undopaminergic on March 9, 2022, at 6:20:01
In reply to Re: Pindolol may improve antidepressant action, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2022, at 2:17:36
> Do you think it would help for the purpose of calming down the fight or flight mode after exercise in order to sleep?
>Yes, to the extent that the syndrome is due to excessive beta-adrenergic stimulation. But to know if it works for you, you have to try.
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 10, 2022, at 22:41:14
In reply to Re: Pindolol may improve antidepressant action » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on March 8, 2022, at 20:35:01
> > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11339972/
> >
> > I researched it because I was thinking of short acting beta blockers that may or may not get me to sleep easier after intense exercise.
>
> In the 1990s, pindolol was reported to "hasten" the response to standard antidepressants (not increase the statistical response rate). The explanation at the time was that in addition to blocking adrenergic beta receptors, it also
* Error: agonized (stimulated)] 5-HT(1A) receptors,* Should be: antagonized (blocked) 5-HT(1A) receptors,
which I believe act as an inhibitory autoreceptor along serotonin axons. Pindolol tends to "mute" and interrupt the signal (action potential) carried down the axons of these neurons. Using pindolol as an augmenter of antidepressants didn't catch on back then.
>
> However...
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10727715/
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Posted by linkadge on March 11, 2022, at 17:25:27
In reply to Oops. Pindolol is an ANTAGONIST of 5-HT1a, posted by SLS on March 10, 2022, at 22:41:14
I hear a lot about the promise of pindolol a few decades ago, but haven't heard much since.
Linkadge
Posted by Jay2112 on March 13, 2022, at 14:13:14
In reply to Re: Pindolol may improve antidepressant action, posted by undopaminergic on March 9, 2022, at 6:20:01
5ht1a receptor. What sort of mental/physical process/emotions is that associated with?
Jay
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 21, 2022, at 12:10:03
In reply to Re: Pindolol may improve antidepressant action, posted by Jay2112 on March 13, 2022, at 14:13:14
ugh. "augmentation strategies..." what to make of the (often not so stellar) quality data?
amphetamines, for instance. benzedrine and the other uppers have been used since the 30s for various forms of low mood, ranging from fits of melancholy to deep, dark depression. sometimes it was just the occasional upper...other times, it was an amphetamine + -something- mix, as in Dexamyl or ThoraDex or...on and on. and yet...
data? not so much. thanks, psychiatry.
"california rocket fuel" was the -it- recommendation for...maybe 2 years? lol. data is (not surprisingly) limited and not terribly convincing. remeron+effexor might result in Parnate-ish results in a select group of people/patients...or not. lol.
blah blah blah...my overall -point- is that psych treatment can and usually should be guided by loose diagnoses (for example: those prone to psychosis should probably not be given amphetamines, even ritalin may be a no go...), but these are not "illnesses" in the same sense that one can go to a competent, licensed MD or DO and get treatment for hay fever or strep throat.
ideally, those who need psych drugs should be assessed and provided treatment that meets their/our needs and with informed consent, so the "patient" can steer treatment towards drugs with an acceptable risks vs benefits ratio. and yet...
I think -especially- in psych land, "treatment" is a sort of Pharma-cracy (to steal from Szasz, as always). Basically, we get the "pills we -deserve- ," just as voters supposedly get the "gov't we deserve." Clever one, that Szasz.
honestly, I think letting experienced talking treatment providers and nurse practitioners take over psych prescribing would do everyone a world of good.
oh, and...pindolol is sometimes regarded as potentially helpful, except when it's not. sort of like...low(ish) dose lithium augmentation, buspirone augmentation, ritalin, amphetamines, adding a TCA, switching to a TCA, adding a newer anticonvulsant...
on and on and on. in a better world, it'd be problems that can be dealt with thru the meds + personal preferences + adverse effects + informed consent = a less authoritarian, less dogmatic, less -frightening- approach to handling chronic mental illness (or...any intense distress that could respond to available treatments...).
probably...not a viable option, ever. -sigh-
oh well. :-(
This is the end of the thread.
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