![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 8:29:41
i have now realised that. I have become addicted to the benzos I was taking with parnate.
I took them very sparingly before, but when parnate began to stop working,when I was in Inida, I increased the parnate dose from 30 mg to 40mg and was still anxious and so took the benzos more often just in order to be able to function and now if I dont take them, I get unbearably anxious and suicidal. I now realise that I have become dependent on them, which I do believe happens more quickly to people who tend to suffer from depression.
I Will have to try to taper them slowly and I know it will be hell. Has this ever happened to anyone ? Im in the UK and gps dont know anything about maois and no psychiatrist is available on the NHS.
Would anyone know whether Parnate is a gaba receptor down regulator, as it seems that affects the tapering process - acc. to a video ive been listening to on you tube re coming off benzos.... what a nightmare.... Any help much appreciated re. being on parnate and having to come off benzos. This isnt a subject ive seen discussed. I have asked Dr. Gillman, but he just said he doesnt know. I think he is fed up with my questions. I cant find any info on the subject of tapering off benzos while still being on parnate anywhere.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 16, 2019, at 9:36:37
In reply to Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 8:29:41
Hey,
I am sorry you are in this predicament! these people have a lot of experience with withdrawing psychiatric drugs. www.survivingantidepressants.org
Posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 12:37:36
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by Lamdage22 on April 16, 2019, at 9:36:37
Thanks Lamdage,
Its the benzos I need to get off, not the antidepressants.
Posted by TH on April 16, 2019, at 15:42:41
In reply to Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 8:29:41
While Nardil does appear to appear to cause an increase in GABA, Parnate does not. Nardil's effects on GABA appear not to come directly from its role as an MAOI, but rather from one of its metabolites further downstream.
Unless there is some other mechanism for GABA down-regulation that I have neglected, it seems to me that as Parnate does not release or potentiate GABA, it should neither promote nor prevent down regulation.
Have a look at the following paper:
Insights into the Mechanisms of Action of the MAO
Inhibitors Phenelzine and Tranylcypromine: A Reviewhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188458/pdf/jpn00047-0037.pdf
Posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 16:33:56
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by TH on April 16, 2019, at 15:42:41
Thanks TH. You are a star. I must say, that is a very technical article, and my mind isnt working that well because of all this jumble of meds, but I trust your interpretation, as I really dont understand the technical side of all this very well, but am very worried and anxious (result of the benzos already not working) and having gone through one horrific time coming of sleeping pills in 1990 , Im dreading having to do it again,and this time with maybe the added complication of also being on parnate.
I dont know how so many people on this board seem to be on benzos and not have problems with them.In my case, it has not taken long at all to have severe suicidal symptoms of addiction and the drug no longer working.
Posted by TH on April 16, 2019, at 19:40:04
In reply to Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by rose45 on April 16, 2019, at 8:29:41
It certainly does worry me how commonly benzos are used given the all too real dependence and withdrawal. They have always struck me as a band-aid solution, nothing more than an acute crisis management tool.
The most effective treatment for benzodiazapine withdrawal that I'm aware of is low dose flumazenil infusion. I'm not sure if there would be much chance of getting it through the NHS as it does not seem to be mainstream practice yet, however some addiction treatment facilities do use it. If you have the means to access such a facility I would think it well worth considering.
You're not in uncharted territory if you've been through it before and will have a much better appreciation of what to expect than I have. I wish you the best of luck with what is truly an unenviable task ahead.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 16, 2019, at 23:36:18
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by TH on April 16, 2019, at 19:40:04
Hey Rose,
it's just the name they have chosen. It's also about benzo and neuroleptic withdrawal! Let us know how it goes.
Posted by ed nieg on April 19, 2019, at 2:41:51
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by Lamdage22 on April 16, 2019, at 23:36:18
Rose, i am going through something very similar. I lowered my parnate dosage from 40 to 30 mg as well, started taking gabaergics to combat the chronic insomnia from parnate, stopped them recently and have been feeling totally abject -- like I'm on no meds at all and feeling suicidal, anxiety ridden and nonfunctional. i'm also planning on going back on 40 mg to see if it helps me ride this out, but it's hard to say if the relapse came from stopping the sleep drugs or reducing the parnate dosage. i was actually thinking about stopping the parnate altogether but this isn't a good idea considering my life circumstances at the moment. if 40 mg doesn't work i'm calling it and starting a taper off because i'm sick of this ever-chugging med train from hell.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 19, 2019, at 2:56:57
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by ed nieg on April 19, 2019, at 2:41:51
It is best not to do two med changes at the same time
Posted by ed nieg on April 19, 2019, at 3:02:55
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by Lamdage22 on April 19, 2019, at 2:56:57
I wasn't even taking the sleep drugs every day, just every other day or a few times a week for maybe a month. so you're saying I should stay on my dose of parnate? eh...
Posted by rose45 on April 19, 2019, at 6:19:03
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by ed nieg on April 19, 2019, at 2:41:51
> Rose, i am going through something very similar. I lowered my parnate dosage from 40 to 30 mg as well, started taking gabaergics to combat the chronic insomnia from parnate, stopped them recently and have been feeling totally abject -- like I'm on no meds at all and feeling suicidal, anxiety ridden and nonfunctional. i'm also planning on going back on 40 mg to see if it helps me ride this out, but it's hard to say if the relapse came from stopping the sleep drugs or reducing the parnate dosage. i was actually thinking about stopping the parnate altogether but this isn't a good idea considering my life circumstances at the moment. if 40 mg doesn't work i'm calling it and starting a taper off because i'm sick of this ever-chugging med train from hell.
Ed, thank you for posting. I finally was able to see my gp yesterday. Im in such a state of anxiety, she said stay on the benzos till I see her again, and she is trying to speed up an appointment with a psychiatrist.
Do you have a psychiatrist? I dont have one, living here in the uk, they are very expensive, and I realised that my mistake was to lower the parnate dose all on my own. If possible, seek professional advice before making changes. Where do you live and do you have access to a psychiatrist.?Like you Im sick of the med train from hell, but am only on it, because unfortunately I dont seem to manage without it. I dont have the support of a family or close group of friends, for various reasons, and being on ones own makes things so much more difficult.. I have been practicing meditation all my life, and yet am still now dependent on meds. Life is so unpredictable.
Please do keep us informed. We can all learn from one another, but I am realising that most of the mistakes I have made involved taking meds or changing doses , off my own volition. Re. Parnate and Nardil, in my experience, they make you 'high' and sometimes when you are on them, you dont make rational decisions. At least that was my experience.
Posted by rose45 on April 19, 2019, at 6:23:57
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by rose45 on April 19, 2019, at 6:19:03
PS I have been up on 40 mg of parnate for 6 weeks now and it doesnt seem to be having any effect. Im scared of going to the psychiatrist, because goodness knows what he will suggest that I take instead of the parnate. Only nardil and parnate have ever worked. Thats why I have been wondering whether stopping the parnate and then starting from scratch might work...
Why did you stop the gabaergics ? Were they not helping?
Posted by ed nieg on April 19, 2019, at 11:09:03
In reply to Re: Trancyclopromine and addiction to benzos, posted by rose45 on April 19, 2019, at 6:23:57
Rose I stopped them because they seemed to be adversely affecting my mood, and I read online that benzos (which fall under that class) have one of the worst withdrawal syndromes of any drug; so I got freaked out. I understand what its like not to have any friends or SOs to help you through your issues. My parents have good intentions but theyve mishandled me my whole life. Im an extremely solitary person, but I simply dont know what to do with myself. Ive always felt shackled to medication in the respect that they make life more tolerable but not actually any better.
I had some luck with ECT for a little bit, unfortunately its extremely expensive. It can restore your response to medications. If you can eventually afford a psychiatrist I would recommend augmenting parnate with a stimulant or tricyclic, it can be very powerful. Pramipexole is also good if you suffer symptoms like anhedonia/no emotions but it comes with a risk of a withdrawal syndrome. Lastly, psychedelics like psilocybin are a very promising avenue for mental illness, and I feel like they did gave me back some feeling in life (not all of it).
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.