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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2018, at 9:30:43
Can anyone say wether the amphetamins (dexadrine, Adderal etc) have a cross tolerance with Ritalin (methylphenidate)?
Posted by Christ_empowered on December 7, 2018, at 10:43:18
In reply to Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2018, at 9:30:43
to a point, i think so. i was started on Ritalin. it was OK and all, but the psych i had back then insisted on prescribing $$$ new versions that were expen$ive on my insurance, whereas the adderall was in a much lower copay tier. i asked for a switch, he grudgingly obliged, and...
he started me out at a dose that was roughly equivalent to the mgs of ritalin I'd been prescribed, so it was a 2x dosing thing.
i think there are conversion guess-timates available, but...people react differently to the different uppers. i had an acquaintance back in the day who was on a good bit of Ritalin, but adderall caused panic attacks, even at low doses.
hope this helps a bit.
Posted by MightyKondrian on December 12, 2018, at 9:00:53
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by Christ_empowered on December 7, 2018, at 10:43:18
> to a point, i think so. i was started on Ritalin. it was OK and all, but the psych i had back then insisted on prescribing $$$ new versions that were expen$ive on my insurance, whereas the adderall was in a much lower copay tier. i asked for a switch, he grudgingly obliged, and...
>
> he started me out at a dose that was roughly equivalent to the mgs of ritalin I'd been prescribed, so it was a 2x dosing thing.
>
> i think there are conversion guess-timates available, but...people react differently to the different uppers. i had an acquaintance back in the day who was on a good bit of Ritalin, but adderall caused panic attacks, even at low doses.
>
> hope this helps a bit.Am I right in saying both are phenethylamines? I know there are alot of different PEAs. Just have a read of PIHKAL (Alexander Shulgin). Many of them have no cross tolerance. For exple MDMA & it's cousins MDEA & MDA all have no cross tolerance. i.e. If you took MDMA one day, you need double that on the 2nd day. But if you had MDMA one day then MDA or MDEA the second you get the full effect of the other the following day. No cross tolerance. Unfortunitely they are the only other PEAs I can remember. Oh, 2CB is another. But these of course aren't really much good to use as they aren't exactly 'medicinal'. I have tried PEA itself with MAOIs and it becomes pretty strong but I wouldn't recomend it! Too much on the heart. Phenylpiracetam is another one made much stronger with an MAOI but I think that would be classed as a piracetam, tho it does contain a phenyl ring. Piracetam with a pheyl ring. Classed as a psychostim. Oops went of tract there
Posted by MightyKondrian on December 12, 2018, at 22:00:54
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance » Christ_empowered, posted by MightyKondrian on December 12, 2018, at 9:00:53
"Classed as a psychostim."
I should say 'some sources' describe it as a psychostim.
Posted by bleauberry on December 17, 2018, at 14:37:11
In reply to Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by MightyKondrian on December 7, 2018, at 9:30:43
I don't really know if cross tolerance happens but common sense suggests that there is probably some. The meds are different enough that I don't see total cross tolerance. Maybe a little.
You also have to keep in mind that things are constantly in motion, changing, and dynamic. Not static. In other words, let's say you were on Adderall two years ago and now you want to do Ritalin because you did it 4 years ago and liked it then. Well, a lot changed in those 2-4 years. Your brain is not the same as it was. Especially if you've been under constant stress and/or psychiatric symptoms, then you can be sure that whatever the actual underlying cause of your troubles are they have progressed with time.
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2018, at 11:10:52
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by bleauberry on December 17, 2018, at 14:37:11
> I don't really know if cross tolerance happens but common sense suggests that there is probably some. The meds are different enough that I don't see total cross tolerance. Maybe a little.
>
> You also have to keep in mind that things are constantly in motion, changing, and dynamic. Not static. In other words, let's say you were on Adderall two years ago and now you want to do Ritalin because you did it 4 years ago and liked it then. Well, a lot changed in those 2-4 years. Your brain is not the same as it was. Especially if you've been under constant stress and/or psychiatric symptoms, then you can be sure that whatever the actual underlying cause of your troubles are they have progressed with time.I agree.
- Scott
Posted by pedr on January 31, 2019, at 11:35:24
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by SLS on December 18, 2018, at 11:10:52
All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
Pete
Posted by SLS on January 31, 2019, at 16:02:31
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by pedr on January 31, 2019, at 11:35:24
> All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> PeteNice to see you again.
I'm glad you are feeling better.
- Scott
Posted by pedr on February 1, 2019, at 21:39:02
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance » pedr, posted by SLS on January 31, 2019, at 16:02:31
> > All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> > Pete
>
> Nice to see you again.
>
> I'm glad you are feeling better.
>
>
> - ScottCheers Scott, it's good to see you're kicking around :) "Better" is relative but I'll take what I can get.
Pete
Posted by SLS on February 3, 2019, at 17:52:32
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance » SLS, posted by pedr on February 1, 2019, at 21:39:02
> > > All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> > > Pete
> >
> > Nice to see you again.
> >
> > I'm glad you are feeling better.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Cheers Scott, it's good to see you're kicking around :) "Better" is relative but I'll take what I can get.
> PeteI know how that goes.
- Scott
Posted by Ruuudy on March 27, 2019, at 22:56:58
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance » pedr, posted by SLS on February 3, 2019, at 17:52:32
Pete,
You are/were taking a stimulant to treat your depression? And they sometimes have poop-out?> > > > All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> > > > Pete
Posted by pedr on April 16, 2019, at 9:10:12
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance, posted by Ruuudy on March 27, 2019, at 22:56:58
> Pete,
> You are/were taking a stimulant to treat your depression? And they sometimes have poop-out?
>
> > > > > All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> > > > > PeteGah, sorry, I only just saw your reply Rudy. For some reason I *never* get notified of replies.
Yes - stimulant + AD is the only thing Ive found out of countless medications and treatments (including dTMS, ECT, hypnosis) that has any kind of efficacy against my severe TRD. Its a living nightmare.
My situation now is that I can take 15mg Adderall 4x a day and each dose lets me feel human for 1.5 - 2h. I spread the doses out as much as I can bear it.
Wanting to be dead 50+ % of the time is not much of a life but it sure beats wanting to be dead 100% of the time.W.r.t. poop-out, Ive been getting this approximate duration of response for many months now. If it lowers or poops out completely I am truly hosed.
Pete
Posted by pedr on April 16, 2019, at 9:14:29
In reply to Re: Stimulant cross-tolerance » pedr, posted by SLS on January 31, 2019, at 16:02:31
> > All I can add is my own experience, which is that Ritalin almost completely "pooped-out" for my depression after a month, I switched to Adderall and got a very good response. So for me, there was no problematic cross tolerance.
> > Pete
>
> Nice to see you again.
>
> I'm glad you are feeling better.
>
>
> - Scottthanks Scott, whilst Id obviously rather be undepressed and not need to be here, its good to be back on trusty ol dr-bobs. Its a bit quieter these days but its still the best forum for reasoned, experienced, helpful Q&A I think. And thats in no small part down to people like you SLS who are willing to help others off your own bat <doffs cap lin your direction>.
Pete
This is the end of the thread.
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