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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 11:45:43
Hi,
I'm just wondering if people can relate to this. Medication does help me but nowhere near as much as it did in my 20s when I felt as though I was completed cured and that depression was just a thing associated with my youth and not having a purpose etc.
Since 35 I've had horrible experiences with depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety etc and the drugs that took me to heaven in my 20s seemed to take me to hell instead.
I am grateful for the medication I take, the Seroxat and the Zyprexa but I've never really felt cured this time. I'm still aware that this thing is still lurking underneath.
I want to get hold of Nembutal as I want it there as an option should I ever feel that low and nothing was helping. It may sound ungrateful but I want the reassurance of knowing that if ever things got that bad again I have the option of a quick and peaceful death.
I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to this.
Denise
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:31:21
In reply to Can people relate to this?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 11:45:43
Hi Denise.
> I want to get hold of Nembutal as I want it there as an option should I ever feel that low and nothing was helping. It may sound ungrateful but I want the reassurance of knowing that if ever things got that bad again I have the option of a quick and peaceful death.
>
> I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to this.Yes. I can relate.
Do NOT acquire those pills.
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 16:08:11
In reply to Can people relate to this?, posted by Meltingpot on February 21, 2016, at 11:45:43
> Hi,
>
> I'm just wondering if people can relate to this. Medication does help me but nowhere near as much as it did in my 20s when I felt as though I was completed cured and that depression was just a thing associated with my youth and not having a purpose etc.
>
> Since 35 I've had horrible experiences with depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety etc and the drugs that took me to heaven in my 20s seemed to take me to hell instead.
>
> I am grateful for the medication I take, the Seroxat and the Zyprexa but I've never really felt cured this time. I'm still aware that this thing is still lurking underneath.Hi. I can relate to not feeling cured. I tend to get a huge improvement on new meds, then slowly relapse. I feel really hopeless when it happens, particularly if I didn't notice it creeping up. I have never tried going back to meds that used to work, instead I keep getting switched to new ones. I really fear running out of options!
>
> I want to get hold of Nembutal as I want it there as an option should I ever feel that low and nothing was helping. It may sound ungrateful but I want the reassurance of knowing that if ever things got that bad again I have the option of a quick and peaceful death.
>
> I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to this.
>I can relate to having the impulse, but please understand that what's happening is you have gone past "suicidal ideation" to the next step, which is "making a plan", and you should inform your doctor. Please don't get the pills before telling your doctor what's happening.
Posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 1:06:12
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this?, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 12:31:21
Scott,
Why not acquire those pills? I would have them but wouldn't necessarily use them and lots of older people with physical illnesses or not with physical illnesses purchase them to have as an option for when they get older.
I don't want to end up in a care home and God forbid I ever get dementia with my depression. If I had the pills then I could rest assured that I did have an exit plan.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 1:08:58
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? » Meltingpot, posted by Tabitha on February 21, 2016, at 16:08:11
Hi Tabitha,
I really sympathise with your situation. Hopefully you won't run out of options. There is always ketamine and ALKS5461 and other drugs in development. Also, there is always the possibility that a drug you've taken in the past will work again.
I'm not planning on killing myself (not yet as I'm ok now), I just want the option there and I don't understand what is wrong with that.
Denise
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 6:55:57
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 1:06:12
> Scott,
>
> Why not acquire those pills?Because I believe that you are currently in a bad place from which you will emerge.
You will be taking a giant leap towards ending your life prematurely if you acquire those pills. I know "prematurely" is a judgment call, but isn't judgment one of those features of healthy humans that is most affected by a mental illness? I am afraid that you might take those pills if they are readily available during a time when you are most vulnerable to act on impulse. Feelings of extreme despair, hopelessness, and helplessness can be transient. Why would you want to act on a moment in time?
I believe in AUTOEUTHENASIA. Obviously, you do too. I just don't think it is logical to choose death yet. Maybe it is logical, but I would like the opportunity to see this for myself. I admit to being extremely selfish. I want you alive.
Q: What is your number ONE reason for opting for autoeuthanasia?
I can TOTALLY relate to the terror to be found in the idea that one would grow old in a state of intolerable pain having never had a chance for relief.
Let us continue this conversation step by step; perhaps dealing with one question at a time.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 7:03:17
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this?, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 1:08:58
Denise,
> I'm not planning on killing myself (not yet as I'm ok now),
I apologize for assuming that you were in a bad place.
What does "ok" mean to you? Are you in remission? If not, in what ways are you ok now?
> I just want the option there
You will always have the option to acquire a means of performing autoeuthanasia.
> and I don't understand what is wrong with that.
Nobody can stop you from making a plan and providing the means to execute it.
Q: How will you know when it is the right time to perform an act of autoeuthanasia rather than acting on suicidal feelings?
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 10:06:39
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this?, posted by Meltingpot on February 22, 2016, at 1:08:58
> Hi Tabitha,
>
> I really sympathise with your situation. Hopefully you won't run out of options. There is always ketamine and ALKS5461 and other drugs in development. Also, there is always the possibility that a drug you've taken in the past will work again.Thank you. I'm doing well right now since adding lithium.
>
> I'm not planning on killing myself (not yet as I'm ok now), I just want the option there and I don't understand what is wrong with that.
>
>I don't think there's anything wrong with the option of suicide. I don't judge people who choose to end intolerable suffering. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have a means of suicide readily available. Having it there may seem comforting, but it also increases the risk that you will choose suicide to relieve immediate pain when there are still other options.
One of the symptoms of depression is literally not being able to see options for improvement. Ask yourself, if you knew there was a med combo (or something) out there that would give you several years of remission, would it still make sense to kill yourself before having those years?
The possibility to end your life is always there. You don't need to gather the means of doing it now.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2016, at 10:44:27
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? » Meltingpot, posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 10:06:39
> > Hi Tabitha,
> >
> > I really sympathise with your situation. Hopefully you won't run out of options. There is always ketamine and ALKS5461 and other drugs in development. Also, there is always the possibility that a drug you've taken in the past will work again.
>
> Thank you. I'm doing well right now since adding lithium.
>
> >
> > I'm not planning on killing myself (not yet as I'm ok now), I just want the option there and I don't understand what is wrong with that.
> >
> >
>
> I don't think there's anything wrong with the option of suicide. I don't judge people who choose to end intolerable suffering. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have a means of suicide readily available. Having it there may seem comforting, but it also increases the risk that you will choose suicide to relieve immediate pain when there are still other options.
>
> One of the symptoms of depression is literally not being able to see options for improvement. Ask yourself, if you knew there was a med combo (or something) out there that would give you several years of remission, would it still make sense to kill yourself before having those years?
>
> The possibility to end your life is always there. You don't need to gather the means of doing it now.
>
> Friends,
Be not deceived. The poster here advocates that there could be a med combo that could prevent suicide. This is against the FDA rules for advocating these drugs without stating the risks for such. And worse, these drugs can precipitate suicidal thoughts. That contradicts the poster's claim that a med combo could stop suicidal thoughts. Be not deceived by this being allowed by Mr. Hsiung to be posted here with him not interceding to show the fallacy of the statement that could lead to your death by thinking that it is supportive for the poster to post such.
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 13:09:10
In reply to Lou's warning-death by suicide » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on February 22, 2016, at 10:44:27
> This is against the FDA rules for advocating these drugs without stating the risks for such. And worse, these drugs can precipitate suicidal thoughts.
You are correct that some psychiatric medications carry a black-box warning that they can precipitate suicidal thoughts in some people. The topic is not well-understood, but the best information suggests it's a rare occurrence and is more likely to happen in young people than adults. People can learn more about the risks by talking to their doctor or pharmacist. I think it's important to consider the relative risk versus the benefit, and to understand that many of the risks can be monitored by your doctor and mitigated with changes to your dosage or medication choices.
> That contradicts the poster's claim that a med combo could stop suicidal thoughts.
No it doesn't. The fact that *some* medications *may* cause suicidal thoughts in *some* people does not contradict my claim that medications can stop suicidal thoughts.
Posted by Meltingpot on February 23, 2016, at 12:21:14
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott » Meltingpot, posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 6:55:57
Hi Scott,
I'm ok, in that life is bearable but I've never felt really well over the last 15 years or anything like the sense of well being I experienced when I took antidepressants in my 20s. The improvement I had was dramatic, more than I could wish for and that was just one the lowest dose.
Now when I take a low dose I feel worse. Since getting depressed again at 35 (15 years ago approx.) I've experienced horrendous symptoms on antidepressants. The drugs that used to take me to heaven seemed to take me to hell. I thank God for Zyprexa over the years as it has got me out of some really tough times.
I'm ok at the moment in that my life is bearable and I am able to get on and do things but I often feel uncomfortable in myself, I never feel completely relaxed and I wouldn't say I ever experience joy and don't laugh nearly as much as I used to.
I've tried all sorts of augmentation stratgegies, I've tried ketamine and I plan on trying magic mushrooms and would consider DBS when they know more about it.
The thing is the worse I feel the less capable I feel of carrying out suicide. When I got very bad at 35 on holiday all I could think about was how to kill myself and I just couldn't imagine doing any of the available options, I don't know how to tie a noose and can't imagine doing that, I couldn't bring myself to slash my wrists, I can't imagine drowning myself but I could imagine taking a load of pills to put myself to sleep. When I am very bad I don't have the energy or inclination, the calmness (or even the will) to work out what tablets to take and how to take them so I kind of think whilst I am calm and in control I should set about having some sort of plan in place.
This might sound ungrateful as I'm not doing too badly but I would just like to know that I have a plan and a method. I would never carry out the plan, when I'm desperate I will always keep trying something else but it would just be reassuring to know that I have something there.
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on February 23, 2016, at 12:28:19
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? » Meltingpot, posted by Tabitha on February 22, 2016, at 10:06:39
Hi Tabitha,
I agree, I would never take my own life whilst there are things that I can take for relief. Zyprexa has been a God Send.
But I don't agree that the option for suicide is always there. I can't imagine hanging myself, as I don't even know how to tie a noose, it seems to violent, I couldn't bring myself to slash my wrists or lie down on a train track, I can't imagine being able to drown myself or sitting in my car with a hose pipe but I could imagine taking a load of pills.
If I decided to take my own life then I would want to make sure that I did the job properly and that my death would be as peaceful as possible so I was thinking if I could get hold of something that was a sure thing whilst I am not feeling too bad.
Sorry, I know that you are not feeling very good at I the moment and probably don't want to hear me going on about stuff like this but I was just curious to know if other people felt the same way.
Denise
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2016, at 13:44:44
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott, posted by Meltingpot on February 23, 2016, at 12:21:14
Denise,
People who do not respond at all to ketamine may need a tricyclic or SNRI rather than a SSRI. There is some rationale for this that involves genetics.
I did not respond at all to intranasal ketamine, even at higher dosages. SSRIs are worthless to me. I respond best to a combination of MAOI + TCA (desipramine or nortriptyline). I have also responded partially to Effexor and Cymbalta. I had an interesting response to a combination of Effexor + nortriptyline, but it turns out I was underdosed with nortriptyline. I would actually think about revisiting this treatment if my current regime doesn't achieve remission.
How do you react to Parnate and Nardil?
How do your react to Lamictal and lithium?
Are vilazodone or vortioxetine available?
I'm sorry, but I can't support your acquiring drugs for committing suicide, regardless of how convinced you are that you would not use them. I understand your inclinations. However, if you cannot resist the impulse to procure such drugs, how can you be sure that you could resist the impulse to use them when you are in a severely suicidal state?
Often, people enter a severely suicidal state without a cognitive impetus to produce it. You have described this happening to quite often. There is clearly a neurobiolgical phenomenon that induces this kind of sucidality. In other words, suicidality is as much a part of depressive disorders as is any of the other symptoms described.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%28suicidality+OR+suicide%29+AND+neurobiology
Q: What is preventing you from committing suicide now, despite the intensity of your suicidal feelings?
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on February 23, 2016, at 16:01:57
In reply to Tabitha, posted by Meltingpot on February 23, 2016, at 12:28:19
> I agree, I would never take my own life whilst there are things that I can take for relief. Zyprexa has been a God Send.
Good, I'm glad you've found something that helps.
>
> But I don't agree that the option for suicide is always there. [...]OK, I think I understand what you're saying, that it's more comfortable to figure out a fool-proof means now than to leave it for another time when you might not be thinking as clearly. Thank you for clarifying what you meant.
> Sorry, I know that you are not feeling very good at I the moment and probably don't want to hear me going on about stuff like this but I was just curious to know if other people felt the same way.
>
>
>Thanks for your concern. I really don't mind the discussion. My brain has produced a whole lot of thoughts about suicide, too. But I have to second Scott's thoughts on your situation. It's just not a good idea to prepare the means now while assuming you still won't act on it.
One thing I notice about my own recent episode was that my thoughts were sort of removing the obstacles to suicide one by one. When I could get some perspective, I realized it was like I was being led toward suicide even while I didn't think I was actually in danger. When I hear you talking about deciding on a method (overdose on pills) then getting the pills together, it seems similar and I am scared for you. I hope you will tell your doctor about your impulse to get pills before acting on it.
Posted by B2chica on March 13, 2016, at 5:07:13
In reply to Can people relate to this? * SPOILER * = suicide » Meltingpot, posted by SLS on February 22, 2016, at 7:03:17
sorry to interrupt but scotts comment:
Q: How will you know when it is the right time to perform an act of autoeuthanasia rather than acting on suicidal feelings?this is my main logic issue... its a constant battle.
i know from past experience that the lure of them being that close mixed with the impulse of devistation may be too much to over come and result in a quick decision that you (i) cant take back.i am currently in that dark place and VERY often wanted to acquire Nembutal for exact reason. but i can honestly say that i'm thankful for the last few years (despite sucking greatly at times) as im thankful for some of the little things. things like sunsets and sunrises that i never would have seen had i acted...
but i do...very much understand where you're at.
-b2
Posted by B2chica on March 13, 2016, at 5:18:11
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott, posted by Meltingpot on February 23, 2016, at 12:21:14
Hello Denise.
i just have a small 'logical' comment about taking the pills.**TRIGGER**
this may be graphic and trigger those in a dark place.im afraid after working in a short and long-term care facility i have seen many failed suicides. Medically speaking your mind may want to die, but your body will always....always react for survival. Typically when overdosing on pills you do not just fall asleep as we all would like. there could be convulsions/siezures, bleeding of organs including eyes, fevers, uncontrollable vomiting, and worst of all you are very likely to survive, ending up in a vegetative or semi-vegetative state or a severe brain injury that will alter life as you know it completely, for you and those around you, and death will not have occurred.
So please. Please remember this, when you do get to a place where you are thinking of suicide, remember that your body will not agree with your mind...the human body...your beautiful human body was created to live, to survive against odds. it will fight, even if you wont.
peace to you Denise.
b2
Posted by SLS on March 13, 2016, at 6:23:25
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? * SPOILER * = suicide, posted by B2chica on March 13, 2016, at 5:07:13
> Q: How will you know when it is the right time to perform an act of autoeuthanasia rather than acting on suicidal feelings?
I know. It is quite a conundrum - a catch 22. I really don't want to delve too deeply. I think it would take too long and be too morbid.
I like your post regarding failed attempts.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 13, 2016, at 6:24:54
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott **TRIGGER*, posted by B2chica on March 13, 2016, at 5:18:11
> peace to you Denise.
I think I upset her. I hope she comes back.
- Scott
Posted by B2chica on March 14, 2016, at 14:09:18
In reply to Re: Can people relate to this? To Scott **TRIGGER* » B2chica, posted by SLS on March 13, 2016, at 6:24:54
i hope it wasnt my post.
i am truly sorry if it did. :(
This is the end of the thread.
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