![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2015, at 21:01:23
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by baseball55 on June 3, 2015, at 20:13:03
Baseball so in your opinion medications do work? Thanks for responding. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 4, 2015, at 18:55:31
In reply to Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2015, at 19:51:15
I kinda see the point. I mean, if 1% of the population has schizo-something and another 1% severe bipolar, maybe 1% psychotic depression or whatever...why are so many people on meds?Also...related point...if psychiatry is really about helping the mentally ill, why have so many shrinks given up on the severely mentally ill and also on people who use insurance?
I do think antidepressants often cause more problems for the more moderately, mildly ill than no treatment at all would...which translates into lost $$$ for the economy.
Posted by baseball55 on June 4, 2015, at 19:08:50
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm. » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2015, at 21:01:23
Posted by baseball55 on June 4, 2015, at 19:11:45
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm. » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2015, at 21:01:23
> Baseball so in your opinion medications do work? Thanks for responding. Phillipa
My opinion regarding the efficacy of ADs is not the issue. The issue is that the article you posted presented numbers that are patently and demonstrably false. Information on suicide rates can be found easily at WHO and OECD, both reliable public sources.
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2015, at 20:45:46
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by baseball55 on June 4, 2015, at 19:11:45
Thanks says a lot to discount this. At the end of the articles are replies from those in medical field and they also don't agree
Posted by rose45 on June 12, 2015, at 8:21:57
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm. » baseball55, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2015, at 20:45:46
I can only speak for myself, but MAOIs have saved my life. I become totally suicidal when I am off drugs. MAOIs give me the chance to lead a more or less normal life. I become a totally different person.
I have no idea whether they are causing some form of harm that I am not aware of. They are not a cure, because I have to be on them for the rest of my life. But I have severe depression, and they make a 100% difference.
Without them I would have committed suicide years ago, because the pain of my depression is unbearable.It is possible that many people are put on anti depressants when they dont really need them, and it may be the medication doesnt really help them.
You cant lump everyone into the same box. People should find out for themselves.
Posted by SLS on June 12, 2015, at 11:47:54
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by rose45 on June 12, 2015, at 8:21:57
> I can only speak for myself, but MAOIs have saved my life. I become totally suicidal when I am off drugs. MAOIs give me the chance to lead a more or less normal life. I become a totally different person.
>
> I have no idea whether they are causing some form of harm that I am not aware of. They are not a cure, because I have to be on them for the rest of my life. But I have severe depression, and they make a 100% difference.
> Without them I would have committed suicide years ago, because the pain of my depression is unbearable.
>
> It is possible that many people are put on anti depressants when they dont really need them, and it may be the medication doesnt really help them.
>
> You cant lump everyone into the same box. People should find out for themselves.Very well said.
It is unfortunate that there is a sizable proportion of severely depressed people who have yet to find an effective treatment. Most of the people posting on this forum are members of this treatment-resistant group. Treatment failures here outnumber treatment successes by such a large margin, that it would seem that psychotropic drugs don't work at all.
I envy you. I wish for you continued health.
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 12, 2015, at 15:12:17
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by baseball55 on June 4, 2015, at 19:11:45
I think the severely mentally ill aren't well served by the "helping professions" or Big Pharma. The atypicals are an improvement, the newer ADs are OK, etc., but...I don't think there's been a whole lot of progress since Marplan, Thorazine, Tofranil, Miltown, Librium, etc.
Posted by rose45 on June 12, 2015, at 16:26:21
In reply to Re: Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm. » rose45, posted by SLS on June 12, 2015, at 11:47:54
> > I can only speak for myself, but MAOIs have saved my life. I become totally suicidal when I am off drugs. MAOIs give me the chance to lead a more or less normal life. I become a totally different person.
> >
> > I have no idea whether they are causing some form of harm that I am not aware of. They are not a cure, because I have to be on them for the rest of my life. But I have severe depression, and they make a 100% difference.
> > Without them I would have committed suicide years ago, because the pain of my depression is unbearable.
> >
> > It is possible that many people are put on anti depressants when they dont really need them, and it may be the medication doesnt really help them.
> >
> > You cant lump everyone into the same box. People should find out for themselves.
>
> Very well said.
>
> It is unfortunate that there is a sizable proportion of severely depressed people who have yet to find an effective treatment. Most of the people posting on this forum are members of this treatment-resistant group. Treatment failures here outnumber treatment successes by such a large margin, that it would seem that psychotropic drugs don't work at all.
>
> I envy you. I wish for you continued health.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
I feel so bad for people who cannot be helped. I know what a living hell depression is and I truly wish I could do something to help others. I often think I was extremely lucky to have been put on nardil as a first choice in hospital when I became severely ill. I had suffered depression all my life until then, but was very anti- medication, so I just suffered and refused to take anything, even for sleep. But then, it became so bad, that I didnt recognise it as depression any more. It became something entirely different, and I had no choice but to take medication.
I dont know whether I was saved by the fact that I only started taking meds late in life, and resisted taking anything for many years. I really dont understand much about it, except that I do feel lucky that at least the maois work for me. Its not a 100% cure, but at least I dont have to be in constant mental pain.
I pray that researchers will come up with something soon. They seem to be beating cancer and so many other illnesses, its time they got to the root of mental illness.
Posted by Meltingpot on July 8, 2015, at 10:26:46
In reply to Stop Almost All Psych Meds to Prevent Harm., posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2015, at 19:51:15
I find the thoughts of Gotzsche really scarey and it makes me very angry. Especially this:-
"exclusively be used in acute situations and always with a firm plan for tapering off, which can be difficult for many patients," Dr Gøtzsche argues"
Would Dr Gotzsche argue that pain killers should only be used in acute situation and there should always be a firm plan for coming off them??? Would this Doctor expect people in Pain just to continue to suffer and manage their pain. What does he suggest that people do instead of taking their psychiatric medication, sit in a room meditating for hours, surrounded by bonsai trees and alpha wave music in the background??? or spend endless years in therapy going over and over the same ground???
What makes Dr Gotzsche think everyone should come off all their medication? What makes him an expert. What reason would there be for doing this? Admittedly, some people do come off antidepressants and are ok, I did (mainly because of all the scaremongering) and was ok for three years but I could NEVER come off them now. I'd rather be DEAD than not on medication. For this Doctor to imply that all people should come off their psyciatric medication is downright reckless. We had a lady in the UK with schizophrenia who came off her meds when she was pregnant because she didn't want to harm her new born child. A couple of days after the baby was born the woman walked out of the hospital with her baby (unnoticed by any of the hospital staff) and threw herself and her new born baby off a bridge.
I think that Dr Gotzsche could have said "people should be encouraged to come off medication if they want to and feel that they can" What does this Dr Gotzsche consider as "Acute" exactly? A person having their stomach pumped from an overdose? Being in hospital having your wrists bandaged??
I think we should all petitition against this man.
Also, I've never understood how the placebo effect is supposed to work in a very depressed person. When I have been at my lowest point I have had no expectations of anything working. I've never had a placebo response to anything. It either works or it doesn't. I know how a placebo feels, it's a very vague feeling, where you can't be sure. I think only people who are very suggestible have placebo response. I have a friend who has a very vivid imagination, she only has to take a handful of vitamin B tablets for her to feel full of energy (I kind of question this and am sure it is her imagination)
Anyway, sorry to go on but how I feel off meds haunts me. I've had two so called specialists (I've seen many over the years, some very good and sympathetic) imply that I should come off medication. One refused to help me and told me to go away and practice "Mindfulness" after I had told him that I had been pacing up and down, wretching and was feeling like I just wanted to kill myself. He had a lovely grey sports car parked outside his surgery, I wanted to scratch my car keys down the side of it and then just tell HIM to be "mindful" about the damage.
Denise
Posted by rose45 on July 9, 2015, at 8:12:33
In reply to Doesn't anyone else find this scarey?, posted by Meltingpot on July 8, 2015, at 10:26:46
> I find the thoughts of Gotzsche really scarey and it makes me very angry. Especially this:-
>
> "exclusively be used in acute situations and always with a firm plan for tapering off, which can be difficult for many patients," Dr Gøtzsche argues"
>
> Would Dr Gotzsche argue that pain killers should only be used in acute situation and there should always be a firm plan for coming off them??? Would this Doctor expect people in Pain just to continue to suffer and manage their pain. What does he suggest that people do instead of taking their psychiatric medication, sit in a room meditating for hours, surrounded by bonsai trees and alpha wave music in the background??? or spend endless years in therapy going over and over the same ground???
>
> What makes Dr Gotzsche think everyone should come off all their medication? What makes him an expert. What reason would there be for doing this? Admittedly, some people do come off antidepressants and are ok, I did (mainly because of all the scaremongering) and was ok for three years but I could NEVER come off them now. I'd rather be DEAD than not on medication. For this Doctor to imply that all people should come off their psyciatric medication is downright reckless. We had a lady in the UK with schizophrenia who came off her meds when she was pregnant because she didn't want to harm her new born child. A couple of days after the baby was born the woman walked out of the hospital with her baby (unnoticed by any of the hospital staff) and threw herself and her new born baby off a bridge.
>
> I think that Dr Gotzsche could have said "people should be encouraged to come off medication if they want to and feel that they can" What does this Dr Gotzsche consider as "Acute" exactly? A person having their stomach pumped from an overdose? Being in hospital having your wrists bandaged??
>
> I think we should all petitition against this man.
>
> Also, I've never understood how the placebo effect is supposed to work in a very depressed person. When I have been at my lowest point I have had no expectations of anything working. I've never had a placebo response to anything. It either works or it doesn't. I know how a placebo feels, it's a very vague feeling, where you can't be sure. I think only people who are very suggestible have placebo response. I have a friend who has a very vivid imagination, she only has to take a handful of vitamin B tablets for her to feel full of energy (I kind of question this and am sure it is her imagination)
>
> Anyway, sorry to go on but how I feel off meds haunts me. I've had two so called specialists (I've seen many over the years, some very good and sympathetic) imply that I should come off medication. One refused to help me and told me to go away and practice "Mindfulness" after I had told him that I had been pacing up and down, wretching and was feeling like I just wanted to kill myself. He had a lovely grey sports car parked outside his surgery, I wanted to scratch my car keys down the side of it and then just tell HIM to be "mindful" about the damage.
>
>
> Denise
>Which country do you live in, Denise ?
I live in England, and all the psychiatrists I have seen, on the NHS have told me that I will likely have to stay on meds for my entire life. Noone has ever suggested I wean myself off them. Quite the contrary.
>
>
Posted by Meltingpot on July 10, 2015, at 4:09:03
In reply to Re: Doesn't anyone else find this scarey? » Meltingpot, posted by rose45 on July 9, 2015, at 8:12:33
Hi Rose,
I live in the UK and most of the psychiatrists (I've seen quite a few, privately and on the NHS for various reasons, in many cases they have left and I've been referred to someone else. Most of the pscychiatrists I've seen have been really understanding, one private one did tell me that I would probably have to take medication for the rest of my life. There have just been two who have had a totally difference stance and I have hated their attitude to this day (and them too :-))!
What have you been diagnosed with?
Denise
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 6:37:00
In reply to Rose, posted by Meltingpot on July 10, 2015, at 4:09:03
> one private one did tell me that I would probably have to take medication for the rest of my life. There have just been two who have had a totally difference stance and I have hated their attitude to this day (and them too :-))!
What is the downside of continuing to take medication?
What is the downside of not taking medication?Taking medication now might turn out to be a temporary bridge to the development of other types of treatments. For me, I am looking at brain stimulation techniques.
ECT = electroconvulsive therapy
rTMS = repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation
dTMS = deep transcranial magnetic stimulation
sTMS = synchronized transcranial magnetic stimulation
tDCS = trancranial direct current stmulation
DBS = deep brain stimulation
VNS = vagus nerve stimulation
MST = magnetic seizure therapyI wish sTMS were available. I also like the initial results of tDCS. Unfortunately, these treatments are not ready for prime time.
The best US FDA approved non-invasive treatment might be dTMS. One study reported Its efficacy to lie closer to ECT than to rTMS. The FDA approved dTMS rather quickly, and surprised the manufacturer (Brainsway). Brainsway was not ready to ship more than 100 devices to the US.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3280107/
The problem that emerged in this study was that the dTMS treatment was reported to be less tolerable than rTMS, although dTMS works better. dTMS is also reported to work faster than ECT at 2 weeks. However, dTMS was less effective after 4 weeks. These results need to be verified with additional studies. Perhaps, with time, the settings of the dTMS device can be optimized to address tolerability issues.
It is important to understand that whether it be drug therapy, ECT or TMS, TRD patients usually need maintenance treatment to prevent relapse. One person on Psycho-Babble who did not respond to medication alone went on to respond to rTMS. She undergoes maintenance treatments every 6 months.
- Scott
Posted by stan_the_man70 on July 10, 2015, at 10:53:34
In reply to ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST, posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 6:37:00
Thanks for all the info
Apparently you can buy your own PEMF product rather inexpensively $429
http://www.micro-pulse.com/collections/all
This one is by Dr Robert Dennis and he also has youtube videos
http://www.micro-pulse.com/There are other PEMF products
You can even build your own rather inexpensivelyDr Pawluk has reviewed various products
http://drpawluk.com/products/Video reviews
http://pemfproducts.com/Some more explanation about PEMF (pulsed electromagnetic fields)
http://www.pemf.com/en/You can even buy PEMF helmets and so on and download programs to run.
Many other companies sell these products and have video testimonials/explanations/youtube. For example:
http://masmagnetics.com/product/mas-special-multi/I am new to this. I have not tried this. But its similar to taking NADH for the cell energy mitochondrial cycle.
Please no flames.
Regards.-----------------------------------------------
> > one private one did tell me that I would probably have to take medication for the rest of my life. There have just been two who have had a totally difference stance and I have hated their attitude to this day (and them too :-))!
>
> What is the downside of continuing to take medication?
> What is the downside of not taking medication?
>
> Taking medication now might turn out to be a temporary bridge to the development of other types of treatments. For me, I am looking at brain stimulation techniques.
>
> ECT = electroconvulsive therapy
> rTMS = repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation
> dTMS = deep transcranial magnetic stimulation
> sTMS = synchronized transcranial magnetic stimulation
> tDCS = trancranial direct current stmulation
> DBS = deep brain stimulation
> VNS = vagus nerve stimulation
> MST = magnetic seizure therapy
>
> I wish sTMS were available. I also like the initial results of tDCS. Unfortunately, these treatments are not ready for prime time.
>
> The best US FDA approved non-invasive treatment might be dTMS. One study reported Its efficacy to lie closer to ECT than to rTMS. The FDA approved dTMS rather quickly, and surprised the manufacturer (Brainsway). Brainsway was not ready to ship more than 100 devices to the US.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3280107/
>
> The problem that emerged in this study was that the dTMS treatment was reported to be less tolerable than rTMS, although dTMS works better. dTMS is also reported to work faster than ECT at 2 weeks. However, dTMS was less effective after 4 weeks. These results need to be verified with additional studies. Perhaps, with time, the settings of the dTMS device can be optimized to address tolerability issues.
>
> It is important to understand that whether it be drug therapy, ECT or TMS, TRD patients usually need maintenance treatment to prevent relapse. One person on Psycho-Babble who did not respond to medication alone went on to respond to rTMS. She undergoes maintenance treatments every 6 months.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 13:46:53
In reply to Re: ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST » SLS, posted by stan_the_man70 on July 10, 2015, at 10:53:34
Thanks, Stan the Man.
My doctor was loaned some sort of "poor-man's" TMS machine to evaluuate for the manufacturer. I was to come in daily for a few weeks, depending on my reaction. I placed the coil over the left side of my forehead. I reacted to two treatments by feeling much worse, and aborted the trial. It took a few days to recover. I was stupid. After feeling worse from left-side placement, I didn't think to try right side placement. I had already known about the reciprocal relationship between frequency and lateral positioning. I don't know why I didn't make the connection.
10-20 Hz / left = antidepressant
10-20 Hz / right = depressant / antimanic1-5 Hz / left = depressant / antimanic
1-5 Hz / right = antidepressantI should have tried right side positioning, just in case the frequency generated by the machine was in the lower range. It was not adjustable. My doctor was unaware of this lateralization. However, that magnetic stimulation could have such a profound negative effect on my mood gives me hope that I would respond positively to properly applied tissue stimulation treatments. A few people are applying 1 Hz / right for depression with success rather than the original 10 Hz / left.
- Scott
Posted by rose45 on July 10, 2015, at 14:21:15
In reply to Re: ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST » stan_the_man70, posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 13:46:53
> Thanks, Stan the Man.
>
> My doctor was loaned some sort of "poor-man's" TMS machine to evaluuate for the manufacturer. I was to come in daily for a few weeks, depending on my reaction. I placed the coil over the left side of my forehead. I reacted to two treatments by feeling much worse, and aborted the trial. It took a few days to recover. I was stupid. After feeling worse from left-side placement, I didn't think to try right side placement. I had already known about the reciprocal relationship between frequency and lateral positioning. I don't know why I didn't make the connection.
>
> 10-20 Hz / left = antidepressant
> 10-20 Hz / right = depressant / antimanic
>
> 1-5 Hz / left = depressant / antimanic
> 1-5 Hz / right = antidepressant
>
> I should have tried right side positioning, just in case the frequency generated by the machine was in the lower range. It was not adjustable. My doctor was unaware of this lateralization. However, that magnetic stimulation could have such a profound negative effect on my mood gives me hope that I would respond positively to properly applied tissue stimulation treatments. A few people are applying 1 Hz / right for depression with success rather than the original 10 Hz / left.
>
>
> - ScottI wonder what percentage of people are helped by this procedure. There are trials currently going on in the Uk, but I dont know whether I should volunteer, or not.
Posted by rose45 on July 10, 2015, at 14:25:00
In reply to Rose, posted by Meltingpot on July 10, 2015, at 4:09:03
> Hi Rose,
>
> I live in the UK and most of the psychiatrists (I've seen quite a few, privately and on the NHS for various reasons, in many cases they have left and I've been referred to someone else. Most of the pscychiatrists I've seen have been really understanding, one private one did tell me that I would probably have to take medication for the rest of my life. There have just been two who have had a totally difference stance and I have hated their attitude to this day (and them too :-))!
>
> What have you been diagnosed with?
>
>
> DeniseDenise, I have clinical depression, which is really helped only by MAOIs. None of the other medications work for me. But I cannot cope at all without medication. MAOIs have been a real miracle drug for me, but there are side effects and I dread to think what damage they may be doing that I am unaware of.
How about you?
Posted by Meltingpot on July 16, 2015, at 15:02:32
In reply to ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST, posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 6:37:00
Hi Scott,
It's nice to see you on the board still as I've always found your posts really encouraging, helpful and informative.
I agree with you, I am taking my medication in the hope that one day something better (even a cure) will come along. The state of being feels unbearable without medication.
I have tried rTMS years ago in Vancouver and it didn't seem to do anything and I tried 8 treatments of ECT (4 bilateral) which didn't seem to do anything either. But one thing I would say is that when I came round after each treatment I felt particularly horrible, like I'd been somewhere not very nice in my own head.
I seem to remember you saying that you had tried ECT and felt quite good for about half an hour and then nothing after that so I'm surprised you are optimistic about Deep rTMS but then like you say you did respond to TMS (be it in a negative way) so it must have done something.
I have been following the DBS trials quite closely as it is something I might consider when they know more about who it works for and which areas to target. Afterall, if you had the operation which area would you want them to target the anterior cingulate, the nucleous accumbens, or any of the other areas that they are experimenting with? I'm sure I primarily suffer from some kind of existential anxiety rather than depression as I don't tend to cry a lot and feel sad with it, mainly agitated and anxious(II really hope that the trials that the military will be doing with DBS prove to be fruitful.
I have been considering VNS but you hear so few positive reports from it, I'm not sure it is worth the bother.
Denise
Posted by SLS on July 17, 2015, at 9:01:38
In reply to Scott, posted by Meltingpot on July 16, 2015, at 15:02:32
> Hi Scott,
Hi. :-)
Long time, no see.
> It's nice to see you on the board still as I've always found your posts really encouraging, helpful and informative.
Thanks. I sometimes wonder if others feel the same way. I kinda don't think so. I generally don't get responsess to the threads I start, even when it is a request for help. Perhaps I come off as being a megalomaniac.
Oh, well.
> I am taking my medication in the hope that one day something better (even a cure) will come along. The state of being feels unbearable without medication.
What features of your depression do medications mitigate?
I feel that I have gone as far as I can with pharmacotherapy. I might add NAC in a few weeks. It is likely to take several months to work if it is going to work at all.
> I have tried rTMS years ago in Vancouver and it didn't seem to do anything and I tried 8 treatments of ECT (4 bilateral) which didn't seem to do anything either.
Supposedly a full trial of ECT comprises 12 - 15 treatments.
> But one thing I would say is that when I came round after each treatment I felt particularly horrible, like I'd been somewhere not very nice in my own head.
Was the core depression worse, or was this something different present in addition to depression?
> I seem to remember you saying that you had tried ECT and felt quite good for about half an hour and then nothing after that so I'm surprised you are optimistic about Deep rTMS.
I never tried any type of TMS. However, if I am going to give it a try, I want to use the best available. I'm not going through two courses of treatments. dTMS makes more sense for me if the presentation of comparative data showing its superiority is accurate and repeatable.
> I have been following the DBS trials quite closely as it is something I might consider when they know more about who it works for and which areas to target. Afterall, if you had the operation which area would you want them to target the anterior cingulate, the nucleous accumbens, or any of the other areas that they are experimenting with?
I agree with everything you said here.
> I'm sure I primarily suffer from some kind of existential anxiety rather than depression
You would be surprised just how much severe biogenic depression can feel like an existential crisis, especially when there is some anxiety present. Depression can change the content and perception of one's own thoughts.
> as I don't tend to cry a lot
Neither do I. My affect is too flat and there is psychomotor retardation. I usually don't have the energy to cry.
> and feel sad with it
The qualifiers for depressive disorder can include:
1. Sadness or depressed mood
and/or
2. Lack of interest or pleasure
For the most part, #2 qualifies me for a depressive mood disorder. However, earlier in my history melancholy, agitation, and anxiety were present.
> mainly agitated and anxious
Do you respond at all to tricyclics or SNRIs?
What has been your history of reactions to Nardil and Parnate?
> I have been considering VNS but you hear so few positive reports from it, I'm not sure it is worth the bother.
One of my doctors likes it. Perhaps they have refined the protocol.
Do you think there might be any bipolarity involved in your case?
> Denise
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on July 18, 2015, at 11:56:43
In reply to ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST, posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 6:37:00
tPCS appears to be more effective than tDCS.
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-non-invasive-brain-technique.html
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131779
In addition to doing tDCS, foc.us can do tPCS. It can also do tACS.
Posted by Hugh on July 18, 2015, at 12:08:37
In reply to ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST, posted by SLS on July 10, 2015, at 6:37:00
Some other brain stimulation techniques you could add to the list:
LENS: http://www.site.ochslabs.com/
NeuroField: http://www.neurofield.org/
Nexalin: http://www.nexalin.com/
An interesting book about LENS:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Healing-Power-Neurofeedback-Revolutionary/dp/1594770840
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2015, at 16:08:34
In reply to Re: ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST, posted by Hugh on July 18, 2015, at 11:56:43
Hugh, thank you very much for your time and efforts. They are greatlly appreciated. I'll have to copy this stuff down and look at it later.
- Scott> tPCS appears to be more effective than tDCS.
>
> http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-07-non-invasive-brain-technique.html
>
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131779
>
> In addition to doing tDCS, foc.us can do tPCS. It can also do tACS.
>
> http://www.foc.us/tdcs-devices
>
> http://www.diytdcs.com/tag/tpcs/
Posted by Hugh on July 19, 2015, at 0:54:12
In reply to Re: ECT / rTMS / dTMS / sTMS / tDCS / DBS / VNS / MST » Hugh, posted by SLS on July 18, 2015, at 16:08:34
You're welcome, Scott. Have you considered trying neurofeedback? I did this in 2000-01. It improved my depression somewhat. It also reduced my irritability. Its biggest impact, by far, was on the extreme self-consciousness I used to feel whenever I was out around people, like at the mall or supermarket. Neurofeedback has eliminated this form anxiety for me -- though I'm still a fairly depressed, anxious, irritable guy.
Great strides have been made in the field of neurofeedback since I first tried it. Better equipment and better protocols. I'd like to do more of it, using one or more of these new protocols.
This is a good book about neurofeedback:
Neurofeedback can be pricey -- generally between $50 and $125 per session, depending on where in the country you live. People usually need 20-40 sessions. Self-training can be a cheaper option. Someone as studious as you should be able to master it. Peter Van Deusen is a highly regarded neurofeedback clinician. He sells equipment and online training for self-trainers. He recently developed a protocol -- Whole-Brain Training Circuit -- that has been getting better results than anything he's seen in his 25 years in the field. Here's his site:
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 19, 2015, at 12:59:56
In reply to Doesn't anyone else find this scarey?, posted by Meltingpot on July 8, 2015, at 10:26:46
> I find the thoughts of Gotzsche really scarey and it makes me very angry. Especially this:-
>
> "exclusively be used in acute situations and always with a firm plan for tapering off, which can be difficult for many patients," Dr Gøtzsche argues"
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> Would Dr Gotzsche argue that pain killers should only be used in acute situation and there should always be a firm plan for coming off them??? Would this Doctor expect people in Pain just to continue to suffer and manage their pain. What does he suggest that people do instead of taking their psychiatric medication, sit in a room meditating for hours, surrounded by bonsai trees and alpha wave music in the background??? or spend endless years in therapy going over and over the same ground???
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> What makes Dr Gotzsche think everyone should come off all their medication? What makes him an expert. What reason would there be for doing this? Admittedly, some people do come off antidepressants and are ok, I did (mainly because of all the scaremongering) and was ok for three years but I could NEVER come off them now. I'd rather be DEAD than not on medication. For this Doctor to imply that all people should come off their psyciatric medication is downright reckless. We had a lady in the UK with schizophrenia who came off her meds when she was pregnant because she didn't want to harm her new born child. A couple of days after the baby was born the woman walked out of the hospital with her baby (unnoticed by any of the hospital staff) and threw herself and her new born baby off a bridge.
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> I think that Dr Gotzsche could have said "people should be encouraged to come off medication if they want to and feel that they can" What does this Dr Gotzsche consider as "Acute" exactly? A person having their stomach pumped from an overdose? Being in hospital having your wrists bandaged??
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> I think we should all petitition against this man.
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> Also, I've never understood how the placebo effect is supposed to work in a very depressed person. When I have been at my lowest point I have had no expectations of anything working. I've never had a placebo response to anything. It either works or it doesn't. I know how a placebo feels, it's a very vague feeling, where you can't be sure. I think only people who are very suggestible have placebo response. I have a friend who has a very vivid imagination, she only has to take a handful of vitamin B tablets for her to feel full of energy (I kind of question this and am sure it is her imagination)
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> Anyway, sorry to go on but how I feel off meds haunts me. I've had two so called specialists (I've seen many over the years, some very good and sympathetic) imply that I should come off medication. One refused to help me and told me to go away and practice "Mindfulness" after I had told him that I had been pacing up and down, wretching and was feeling like I just wanted to kill myself. He had a lovely grey sports car parked outside his surgery, I wanted to scratch my car keys down the side of it and then just tell HIM to be "mindful" about the damage.
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> Denise
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Hello Denise. You make some very compelling points.I wonder, however, if the conclusion to which Gotzsche has come in relation to antidepressants was intended only to apply to the administration of such medications to patients with mild and situational syndromes? My (admittedly hazy) understanding of his project is that he is concerned to examine whether antidepressants (especially the SSRIs and their variations) are *over*-prescribed. I don't think it is absolutely clear that his conclusion applies to cases where antidepressants have been properly prescribed in light of evidence of serious and entrenched neuro-psychiatric conditions.
To the extent that his project can be so characterised, I think his sceptical mind and investigations are valuable and illuminating.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 7, 2015, at 12:58:55
In reply to Re: Scott » Meltingpot, posted by SLS on July 17, 2015, at 9:01:38
Be advised that MAOI can kick off psychosis big time.
This is the end of the thread.
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