![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
yep, pretty much any chemical that alters brain function in such a profound way can have permanent negative effects in certain people.
and in some cases psychiatric meds can even have positive permanent effects.what/who makes anyone think the effects psych meds have on the brain cant possibly, especially the negative ones, be permanent? are these sources anywhere near as trustworthy as someone you know personally that you can put your full trust in?
Posted by scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 17:39:44
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
I don't know where we got off target here, but I'm never asked whether or not this feeling is permanent. I just wanted to get opinions on what the feelings might be - Akathisia, RLS, Anxiety, etc - so I could start trying to address the cause.
If Lou the Idiot would stop trolling and hijacking my thread, I might get some sound answers. This place used to be where incredibly smart and well educated people hung out and helped each other.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-death by Zoloft » Lou Pilder, posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2015, at 16:33:38
> It's not all about you.
>
> I don't see the evidence of humility. (HHHH)
>
> Are you the Christ/Messiah/Savior? Or, do you know Him? If not, who has come back from the dead that you refer to?10,
It was years ago. And I was in The Garden when death came into the world. And in the midst of The Garden was the Rider on a white horse. And I saw death come into Adam and Eve. Gone were the green fields that they used to know.
And then the Rider and Adam were talking and I could understand their words. Adam said, "Look what we have done. Death has come into the world because of us. What must we do to be saved?"
The rider said, "Let not your heart be troubled. If you believe in God, believe in me also. For you are the first Adam that has brought death to come into the world and The Garden you have to leave. But I am the Last Adam, where death will be cast into The Lake of Fire and cause the return to The Garden. For I must die first and then I will live again to overcome death and bring you back to where you once belonged."
Lou
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 19:54:15
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on June 30, 2015, at 16:53:09
Hi.
> yep, pretty much any chemical that alters brain function in such a profound way can have permanent negative effects in certain people.
Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 20:41:38
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
> It is certainly not b*llsh*t that akathisia can be permanent after discontinuation of your meds.
Yes. This is called TARDIVE akathisia (as opposed to acute akathisia). It is sometimes irreversible. It emerges only after taking an antipsychotic for an extended period of time. It occurs infrequently with the use of older antipsychotics and rarely with the newer ones. I don't think there are any statistics regarding this. Of the newer drugs, my guess is that Abilify has the greatest potential to produce acute (immediate) reversible akathisia, although Clozaril might also be liable. A lot of people experience mild akathisia-like symptoms when beginnng treatment with Abilify. By contrast, I found only two cases of what is described as tardive akathisia with Abilify on Medline.
--------------------------------------
I think the term "akathisia" is overused. It is often mistaken for anxiety and agitation. The symptoms that best discriminated akathisia from non-akathisia are:
- rapid shifting weight from foot to foot while standing
- walking in place
- inability to keep legs still
- feelings of inner restlessness
- shifting of body position in a chair.
- rocking forwards and backwords in a chair--------------------------------------
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 21:32:50
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 20:41:38
That's a lot of zoloft. Maybe its akathisia? I would think at that dose you'd see some antipsychoitc-ish side effects. RLS is, I think, related to akathisia in a lot of psych patients...don't they treat it with sedatives and dopamine agonists?
Not an expert, but...maybe gabepentin, or the new one...lyrica...a benzo, high dose b6 might help...add wellbutrin (?).
Hope you and your doc figure something out.
Posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2015, at 23:58:32
In reply to Lou's response-The Garden » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
Ok, Lou.
Some of my favorite Jews are Messianic. But...whatever.
I will stop contributing to the hijack of scleme1's thread now.
Will you?
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 2:30:56
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Christ_empowered on June 30, 2015, at 21:32:50
> That's a lot of zoloft. Maybe its akathisia? I would think at that dose you'd see some antipsychoitc-ish side effects. RLS is, I think, related to akathisia in a lot of psych patients...don't they treat it with sedatives and dopamine agonists?
>
> Not an expert, but...maybe gabepentin, or the new one...lyrica...a benzo, high dose b6 might help...add wellbutrin (?).
>
> Hope you and your doc figure something out.Lyrica is a good choice for akathisia, from what I've read. However, I wouldn't want to take a drug that produces chronic akathisia unless there were no other choice. I don't know what percentage of cases of acute or chronic, or tardive akathisia go on to become irreversible. I have been taking Abilify for over 10 years. Right now, I have no concerns. If I were to develop akathisia - which would be tardive - I would stop it immediately. I don't know what I would use as a substitute. It is unique among available antipsychotics as it is a dopamine receptor partial agonist.
- Scott
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » scleme1, posted by SLS on June 29, 2015, at 22:21:55
> Akathisia with Zoloft (sertraline) is not unusual. This might be because it is an antagonist of sigma-1 receptors; something unique among the SSRIs. Luvox (fluvoxamine) does just the opposite. Still, you might not be experiencing akathisia per se. In akathisia, there are no focal sensations in the limbs. Also, akathisia presents all day long, not just at bedtime.
>
> Have you tried Luvox?> Your experience might very well be behavioral and psychosomatic. CBT could be your answer.
>
>
> - ScottI agree with Scott (not that I'm nearly as knowledgeable) about zoloft - and some other SSRIs - being capable of causing akathisia as well as his observation that what you report experiencing solely at night time is unlikely to be akathisia.
As regards RLS, SSRIs can also cause this, but in your recount you don't mention symptoms concentrated initially and primarily in the legs, and neither do you state that the urge to move worsens with rest or immobility. RLS is usually worse in the evening but is definitely not restricted to that period. Do you get heavy, irritable limbs during the day when you relax, like when you watch the TV? With RLS, movement usually brings immediate relief - do you get *relief* through moving?
Apart from medication, low iron levels can cause RLS. Have you had these checked?
If your mental health can sustain it, I wonder whether it might be prudent to lower your zoloft a bit and see whether the symptoms improve? I experienced exactly what you describe when I was taking more than 300mg of effexor; the symptoms disappeared when I reduced to 225mg.
As for medications to treat RLS (and also I think akathisia), a dopamine agonist may be helpful. For RLS, pramipexole is usually prescribed.
Good luck.
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Scleme1, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 8:14:38
> > Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
>
> Hi, Aaron.
>
> I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
>
> I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
>
> I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
>
> Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> - ScottHi also Aaron.
Scott's advice is, on the relevant subject, salutory. I regrettably left psychobabble for months because of the persistent, mostly unconstructive, mostly poorly-informed, mostly inapposite, and sometimes highly offensive and accusatory interventions by Mr Pilder to threads initiated by members with conscientious questions who are suffering often intractable conditions and symptoms. I left at a time when I first started on parnate and needed all the well-informed advice and support I could get. Since leaving, I have had two hypertensive crises, one very dangerous, but felt disinclined to resume my participation here because of the apprehension that Mr. Pilder would seek irrelevantly to monopolise any thread I might compose. Reading his interventions - even seeing them listed in the thread - became a source of anxiety and deep disappointment. Responding to them even more so: nothing can be gained from doing so, and much can be compromised, including one's mental health and the confidence one has in pyschobabble as a forum worth remaining associated with and contributing to.
I commend the substance of your response to Mr Pilder but, in your best interests, it would be best to make it your last.
Best.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 5:59:15
In reply to Why are we talking about permanent effects??, posted by scleme1 on June 30, 2015, at 17:39:44
> I don't know where we got off target here, but I'm never asked whether or not this feeling is permanent. I just wanted to get opinions on what the feelings might be - Akathisia, RLS, Anxiety, etc - so I could start trying to address the cause.
>
> If Lou the Idiot would stop trolling and hijacking my thread, I might get some sound answers. This place used to be where incredibly smart and well educated people hung out and helped each other.Friends,
Be advised that the slander against me here is just another tactic allowed here to defame me and then reduce the regard and respect and confidence in which I am held which could induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. The false charges against me here could sway you to disregard what I write here that IMHHHO what I write could save your life, prevent life-ruining conditions, addictions and death.
This is not a new tactic but an old tactic to arouse ill-will toward a member of a community that posts from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. The fact that it is allowed by the governing body here to post disparaging epithets about me with impunity, could stigmatize me and lead readers to think that it will be good for this community as a whole for the hate to be seen as being supportive, for being supportive takes precedence according to Mr. Hsiung here.
It is this fostering of anti-Semitic hate here that I think could cost you your life or your child's life as you or your child being a victim of anti-Semitic propaganda being allowed to be seen as being supportive here by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record. Because it is being allowed to be seen as supportive, you could disregard my warnings about that thousands of people are killed each and every month from these drugs and you may not believe that because I said it and I am being made a target person here to be the recipient of defamation to be seen as supportive by Mr. Hsiung.
The children that are killed by these drugs can not speak here to warn you that your child could be killed by these drugs also. But is to call me an idiot and be allowed for it to stand something that this site could be held to promoting death? And if so, I do not want the readers that have been killed or will be killed by these drugs being promoted here to have their blood be upon me. That is not trolling, but trying to save lives for I do not want children to suffer a horrible death by them. For when those that take these drugs get a movement disorder from the drugs, that is a time where many kill themselves and commit mass-murder, for they know not what to do and could not even know that it comes from the drugs that they are taking in collaboration with a psychiatrist. This is one way that the drugs kill innocent people. In the state of akathisia, they don't know what to do and can go off in a shooting rampage. This thread is where the poster asks for advise. With that request, there can be a response to it. So don't tell me what to say and don't tell me what to do. You can promote drugs here that can cause death, so could I not respond to your promotion of these drugs to warn readers of the tragic consequences that these drugs can induce? If not, why not?
Lou
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2015, at 6:21:40
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:35:12
Correction:
I characterized Zoloft (sertraline) as being a sigma-1 antagonist. It is a sigma-1 agonist.
My apologies.
- Scott
Posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:32:04
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
Thank you both for your input. Very insightful and helpful. After speaking with a Dr. friend of mine last night, I am also starting to believe this is not Akathisia or RLS. I believe this is either a case of simple anxiety and poor bedtime/bedroom practices (laying in bed on my phone for hours before bedtime, playing games on my phone until I can't keep my eyes open, etc.), nicotine overdose or withdrawal, or possibly a nutritional problem. I'm getting full labs done early next week to see if there's anything going on with my nutrition. I'll report back if anything surprising comes back next week.
Thanks again for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. Have a great day!
Posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:35:20
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by Lamdage22 on June 30, 2015, at 15:00:16
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 9:26:50
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 5:49:06
> > > Lou What's the matter with you? Thankfully, I know myself and the medications that I take well enough to understand that everything you are saying is bullsh*t. Why would you try and scare people with your lies and fearmongering? I do not appreciate your convoluted insight or help. Please do not post a response or any further comments in my thread. I would like to hear from honest, intellectual people. I think you might need to switch mess yourself!
> >
> > Hi, Aaron.
> >
> > I avoid reading and replying to the posts of Mr. Pilder. I have found that to reply to them is without effect and only tempts me to say uncivil things out of frustration. I would recommend to anyone who feels similarly frustrated and is habitually upset by what Mr. Pilder writes that they avoid interacting with him entirely.
> >
> > I hope that I was careful enough not to disparage or otherwise qualify the statements of Mr. Pilder. I have, however, tried to qualify my reactions to and subsequent avoidance of them.
> >
> > I will check from time to time to see if posts are better redirected and placed on the Administration board in so that the Medication board remains on topic for treatment issues. Of course, this is open to subjective judgement.
> >
> > Civil communication as suggested by Psycho-Babble:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi also Aaron.
>
> Scott's advice is, on the relevant subject, salutory. I regrettably left psychobabble for months because of the persistent, mostly unconstructive, mostly poorly-informed, mostly inapposite, and sometimes highly offensive and accusatory interventions by Mr Pilder to threads initiated by members with conscientious questions who are suffering often intractable conditions and symptoms. I left at a time when I first started on parnate and needed all the well-informed advice and support I could get. Since leaving, I have had two hypertensive crises, one very dangerous, but felt disinclined to resume my participation here because of the apprehension that Mr. Pilder would seek irrelevantly to monopolise any thread I might compose. Reading his interventions - even seeing them listed in the thread - became a source of anxiety and deep disappointment. Responding to them even more so: nothing can be gained from doing so, and much can be compromised, including one's mental health and the confidence one has in pyschobabble as a forum worth remaining associated with and contributing to.
>
> I commend the substance of your response to Mr Pilder but, in your best interests, it would be best to make it your last.
>
> Best.
>
Friends,
Be not deceived. Just because they use me as a scapegoat, and just because what they say is allowed to be seen as civil, the Plain Truth is what I write here is to save lives and to prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. That is supportive in any mental-health forum unless the forum is a community of death, looking to bring you down into a whirlpool of lies, drawn into a cesspool of hate that could not only lead you to your death, but to the deaths of innocent people.
Look at the advocating to isolate me here. That is not a new tactic, but an old anti-Semitic tactic to keep the Jewish perspective from you. For I have come here to reveal how you could be delivered from the darkness of death into a marvelous light of life, free from the shackles of addiction and depression having dominion over you. The use of scapegoating saying that a Jew is the cause of someone's real or imagined ills, is nothing new and goes back centuries used in the dark ages by those ignorant of the light of truth so they blame their real or imagined ills on the Jews or a Jew in the community. And this is allowed here by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record and those members in concert with him. That could lead you to believe that anti-Semitism is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole. And with Mr. Hsiung posting the swastika and refusing to delete it or open the post and type in a disclaimer to it, readers could be reinforced into thinking that this is an anti-Semitic site just as if a city erected a billboard with a swastika on it and signed by the mayor.
The allowing of the humiliation of me here by Mr. Hsiung allowing anti-Semitic propaganda and scapegoating and stigmatization of me here to be seen as supportive and by design, shows the devaluation of humanity itself. Hopefully, someone greater than me will rob this site of its victory and take the swastika down.
Lou
Posted by 10derheart on July 1, 2015, at 13:19:55
In reply to Lou's response-skehypgauxt » Robert_Burton_1621, posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2015, at 9:26:50
You're saying Scott writes posts referencing you and (at least part of) his motivation is....
anti-semitism???
That's rich.
Lou, you may be a very silly rabbit.
Posted by Robert_Burton_1621 on July 1, 2015, at 18:20:34
In reply to Robert + Scott - Thank you!, posted by Scleme1 on July 1, 2015, at 8:32:04
> Thank you both for your input. Very insightful and helpful. After speaking with a Dr. friend of mine last night, I am also starting to believe this is not Akathisia or RLS. I believe this is either a case of simple anxiety and poor bedtime/bedroom practices (laying in bed on my phone for hours before bedtime, playing games on my phone until I can't keep my eyes open, etc.), nicotine overdose or withdrawal, or possibly a nutritional problem. I'm getting full labs done early next week to see if there's anything going on with my nutrition. I'll report back if anything surprising comes back next week.
>
> Thanks again for your thoughtful and intelligent replies. Have a great day!Yes, blue light inhibits the secretion of melatonin, therefore if you expose yourself to excessive blue light before or at bedtime, you will likely suffer from insomnia and restlessness.
Good luck.
Posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on June 30, 2015, at 19:54:15
> Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
>
>
> - Scott
im not sure what you mean. but there are anecdotal reports all over the internet about people experiencing permanent side effects. or at the least, extremely long lasting, possibly permanent. i think the people who experience this are seen as misguided by many online others online. at least thats how my experience has been.but heres one report i found after searching for a few seconds:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/anti-depressants-and-permanent-side-effects-after-quitting-97420/#/forumsite/20507/topics/97420?page=1and then then theres myself. my experience with has been absolute hell. i could write my whole experience, but it might be kinda confusing and would beca LOT of writing. but
in my experience, often when i take a psych med chronically, it seems the end effect of all the compensating brain changes is permanent.
in a bit over a month after starting my 1st round of psych meds i went from a pretty normal teen with what i see now, to a huge change in everything about my mood, my world, everything. and it was terrible. ive been battling this ever since.i dont see why situations like this is hard to believe for people. its chemicals and we're not sure what they do, that we're altering the brains of millions of people with. anyone who is mildly educated on psych treatments shouldnt even question this.
while most peoples brains may react just fine to these foreign chemicals, there are those who suffer longterm from taking them. it is the same as how many are just fine with drinking milk with no bad reactions, yet there are those who cant tolerate it.
our emotions are often talked about as having permanent effects on our brains. with chronic depression rewiring certain brain areas, and even causing brain shrinkage.
why couldnt a foreign chemical like paxil also do something like this in susceptible individuals after chronic use?we acknowledge we are lacking in our understanding of the brain. we acknowledge we dont understand how psych meds effect the brain. yet some of say with confidence that these treatments cannot leave someone suffering from permanent effects on their brain. why? you can bet everything you have to your name that the people at Eli Lilly know these people who criticize others for mentioning permanent dangers of these chemicals, that Eli Lilly sees these people as sheep. but are laughing all the way to the bank.
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2015, at 7:53:06
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
> > Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
> im not sure what you mean.I know that there are persistent effects that many psychotropics produce. They can change the "terrain" of the brain - for better or worse.
Perhaps you could list a few specific adverse effects that have remained with you after you discontinued specific drugs.
You might also list a few of the irreversible adverse effects in others that you feel are most prominent. Using a search engine will not reproduce your cumulative knowledge.
Thank you.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2015, at 8:43:58
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 1, 2015, at 22:53:33
Hello123,
Where did you run off to?
I was serious. I think listing specifics would be very helpful.
- Scott-------------------------
> > > Could you be more specific? It would be helpful to certain people.
> > im not sure what you mean.
> I know that there are persistent effects that many psychotropics produce. They can change the "terrain" of the brain - for better or worse.
>
> Perhaps you could list a few specific adverse effects that have remained with you after you discontinued specific drugs.
>
> You might also list a few of the irreversible adverse effects in others that you feel are most prominent. Using a search engine will not reproduce your cumulative knowledge.
>
> Thank you.
Posted by hello123 on July 3, 2015, at 21:05:04
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on July 2, 2015, at 7:53:06
ive not even felt like typing on babble the past few days. my stomach has been feeling ptetty bad.
but, for myself, ive experienced a severe decrease in my ability to experience the emotions that make up life. since taking effexor in 2006 my hair has fallen out faster. its not really noticeable but i do miss my hair looking fuller. also, because of effexor, some of my facial muscles tense up on their own. of i straim my muscles even a tiny bit, i feel shaky and more emotionally disconnected afterwards. what bit of emotions i have are very sensititive to foods. as soon as i swallow something like chocolate, meat, bread etc... it has its effect. ive never, ever heard of something like this, but this is what im experiencing. i could even yell you the difference between white bread thats been fortified with B Vitamins, and white bread that hasnt been. i have very low energy. i vget irritable about some things easily. and my mood is very low. music sounds
pretty empty. i no longer get "closed eye visuals". my imagination and ability to laugh are very weak. and just anything that is pleasurable is often too much for me to handle. leaving me feeling completely drained, mentally and physically in a way that i couldnt imagine before my experience with medications.the worst meds for me were adderall, mirapex and effexor.
i had encephalitis in 2001 that resulted in a 5 day coma, so that could have something to do with why i react so badly to meds with permanent effects on me. but i dont know the criteria for one to react to mefs like i do. but one example of psych meds permanently altering the brain is when they stop working for someone, and never work again.
a couple of weeks ago i was reading revirws on buspar, on askapatient.com i think. and came across a guys revirw describing how buspar worked great for a certain amount of time. and then one day during the time he was on buspar, out of nowhere his anxiety became much worse than he had ever experienced. and buspar was no longer of any benefit. the situation he described seemed much like my experience with adderall and mirapex. theyd benefit me for some weeks by increasing pleasurable feelings. but it seems my brain adjusts its dopamine "thermostat", and no longer works to produce pleasurable feelings on its own. this isnt an addiction response, because these medications also completely stop working at the same time as well. even after taking a break from them for a couple of years and then trying them again, tbey still have no effect. i know adderall depends on vertain processes in the braim to take place before it can even be of any use. and it seems these processes were turned off.
Posted by SLS on July 4, 2015, at 7:58:38
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 3, 2015, at 21:05:04
> ive not even felt like typing on babble the past few days. my stomach has been feeling ptetty bad.
Sorry to hear that.
> but, for myself, ive experienced a severe decrease in my ability to experience the emotions that make up life.
Unfortunately, that doesn't sound unreasonable. Did the drug produce these things while you were taking it? For how long did you take a SRI before these persistent effects emerged?
> since taking effexor in 2006 my hair has fallen out faster. its not really noticeable but i do miss my hair looking fuller.
Had your hair been falling out prior to Effexor? I don't think you can do much for male-pattern baldness. However, zinc and small amounts of selenium can help in other situations.
> also, because of effexor, some of my facial muscles tense up on their own.
Any bruxism?
> of i straim my muscles even a tiny bit, i feel shaky and more emotionally disconnected afterwards.
This, I've never heard of. It must be scary and frustrating.
> what bit of emotions i have are very sensititive to foods. as soon as i swallow something like chocolate, meat, bread etc... it has its effect.
For me, carbohydrates produce exaggerated fatigue, heart palpitations, and perhaps somewhat flatter affect. This began in the mid-1980s after being on Parnate + desipramine. It hasn't dissipated, regardless of what drugs I am taking. I can't comment on the persistence of these phenomena, though, since I haven't been drug-free but for a few weeks here and there.
> ive never, ever heard of something like this, but this is what im experiencing. i could even yell you the difference between white bread thats been fortified with B Vitamins, and white bread that hasnt been.
> i have very low energy. i vget irritable about some things easily.and my mood is very low. music sounds pretty empty. i no longer get "closed eye visuals". my imagination and ability to laugh are very weak. and just anything that is pleasurable is often too much for me to handle. leaving me feeling completely drained, mentally and physically in a way that i couldnt imagine before my experience with medications.
These sound like common symptoms of depression. Depression itself tends to get worse with time. It would be hard to parse the symptoms of the illness versus persistent drug adverse effects.What about apathy? Sexual function / sensation? I have heard of these things persisting after SRI discontinuation.
> the worst meds for me were adderall, mirapex and effexor.
I don't like the idea of using Mirapex for depression. It must wreak havoc dopamine receptors.
> i had encephalitis in 2001 that resulted in a 5 day coma, so that could have something to do with why i react so badly to meds with permanent effects on me.
I have no knowledge to share in this area.
> but i dont know the criteria for one to react to mefs like i do. but one example of psych meds permanently altering the brain is when they stop working for someone, and never work again.
Yup.
> a couple of weeks ago i was reading revirws on buspar, on askapatient.com i think. and came across a guys revirw describing how buspar worked great for a certain amount of time. and then one day during the time he was on buspar, out of nowhere his anxiety became much worse than he had ever experienced.It is often overlooked that Buspar has a major metabolite called 1-PP. This substance is a NE alpha-2 receptor antagonist. As such, it can worsen anxiety in some people. However, I don't know if this effect can be latent or have a tendency to persist beyond drug discontinuation.
Medical treatments for many ailments are not without risks. Unfortunately, the phenomena you list are not well-established in the medical community as risks for taking antidepressants. Hopefully, these things will be mitigated for you once you find an effective treatment for your depression.
It would be interesting to see how you would do with a regimen of Abilify, Lamictal, and possibly Wellbutrin. It would be nice to avoid a SRI if possible.
- Scott
Posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 15:53:55
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice » hello123, posted by SLS on July 4, 2015, at 7:58:38
everything i described occurred while taking psychiatric meds.
my food/emotion sensitivity began while taking effexor. and when this first began, my hair loss wa very sensitive to foods i ate. this was probably the most odd reaction i had to efexor. i could eat a certain food, like meat, and almost immediately afte swallowing a bite, it was like my full range of emotions were turned on anfd it was great, but at the same time my hair wpuld fall out at a very rapid pace. but if i took a bite of a different kind of food the hair loss would immediately stop. the foods and drinks that caused this would change occasionally. this effect lasted for some months after i quit effexor. i did my best through this time and succeeded in keeping my hair looking thick. this was in 2007. but like i said, since then my hair still does fall out faster. but today, the better i feel emotionally,the faster my hair falls out.
i dont think i grind my teeth with bruxism. its muscles on my forehead and between that tense on their own, and they get pretty sore at times.
with my muscles, its not exactly the straining of them that messes me up. its really just using them any at all. along with most of my other symptoms, cyproheptadine benefitted this greatly, i slowly progressed from simply opening my eyes when i wake up being too much for me (along with any other mpvement) to being able to move just fine in 90% of situations.
>These sound like common symptoms of depression. Depression itself tends to get worse with time. It would be hard to parse the symptoms of the illness versus persistent drug adverse effects.
the story of my experience with these chemicals is pretty long. and ot isnt difficult at all to parse through what are persistent effects of these chemicals. the terrible effects i describe only began while on these chemicals. at no other point in my life have i ever experienced such profound changes in emotional functioning. and the experience has felt completelt abnormal. during my first round of prescribed chemicals, i went from having emotional problems that were just w little booboo to
what would be like being hit with a sedgehammer some weeks into taking them. but i didnt attribute this to being caused by the chemicals at the time, sice i was still messed up months after stopping them. only after trying more chemicals did i realize what the problem was.my experience may not be well established in the medical community. but i have litle doubt that researchers, those who thoroughly study the effects of these chemicals on the brain, are fully aware of their chemicals being able to cause situations like mine.
Posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 16:23:22
In reply to Re: Akathisia? Restless Leg Syndrome? Need Some Advice, posted by hello123 on July 4, 2015, at 15:53:55
oh and yes, my libido is terrible. and if i do attempt to feel anything in that department, even the slightest bit, this also drains me mentally and physically.
but... as ive mentioned in the past, the only med to benefit me longterm was cyprobeptadine. it seemed to get to the root of the side effects away and slowly do away with them. but i had to raise the dose every few days over time after lower doses stopped working, until i got to a much too high dose. hat was in 2010. since then ive even more slowly regtesed back to the state i was in before taking it. here soon i will likelt be trying a somewhat high dose of ig again, about the dose i was on during this point of progress i was in 2010 while taking it, and hopefully ot will work again.
if not, ive been trying to find an herb thst functions like cyproheptadine with no antihistamine effect. i think it was either cyproheltadines 5ht2a or 5ht2c inverse agonism that benefitted me. my thougts are partial to its 5ht2c effect. ive found the herbs Kudzu and Bacopa that are normal antagonists at that receptor, and migt help. but still, inverse agonistscan have very different effects that might help when an antagonist doesnt.
basically im wanting an herb that works like cyproheptadine, that i can take like candy. if you or anyone has any knowledge about one..... thatd be awesome.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 6, 2015, at 5:54:31
In reply to Lou's response-The Garden » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2015, at 19:23:15
omg
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.