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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by herpills on September 17, 2013, at 10:28:36
In reply to Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 19:09:35
Lou Pilder said
> Here is a link to the statistics concerning this. I see the number is huge, statistically that is. Would you take an airplane if the probability of the plane exploding at 10,000 feet be the same as the stats here of getting TD from Geodon? >People decide for themselves if they want to accept that risk when taking a psychiatric medication. Since many mental health disorders also have a risk of death, sometimes the risk is worth taking. It depends on the situation.
Should I take the risk of flying even if the risk was hypothetically as high as you mention? Well if I lived in Syria, you bet I'd get on that plane and try to get the hell out of there.
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 13:01:08
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » Sheilac, posted by doxogenic boy on September 16, 2013, at 14:37:27
Thanks for the valuable information!
- Scott
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » doxogenic boy, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 13:01:08
> Thanks for the valuable information!
You're welcome! I think it should be done much more research into interactions with psychotropic drugs.
I find interesting points about interactions in the article "Potentially hazardous drug interactions with psychotropics":
http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/6/440.fullSome quotes from the article:
Most interactions are harmless and of only theoretical interest.
[...]The evidence for many potential interactions is based only on in vitro or animal research, single case reports or small-scale uncontrolled studies
[...]For example, enzyme induction by carbamazepine decreases the effectiveness of tricyclic antidepressants and antipsychotics.
[...]Much research has been carried out into potentially hazardous interactions with psychotropic drugs, yet there is much that remains unknown. The evidence for some potential interactions is based on animal experiments, isolated case reports in which there is doubt about the cause-and-effect relationships, or small-scale volunteer studies that may not reflect the action of, and interaction between, drugs in patients.
End of quotes.
I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
- doxogenic
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 14:42:48
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by herpills on September 17, 2013, at 10:28:36
> Lou Pilder said
> > Here is a link to the statistics concerning this. I see the number is huge, statistically that is. Would you take an airplane if the probability of the plane exploding at 10,000 feet be the same as the stats here of getting TD from Geodon? >
>
> People decide for themselves if they want to accept that risk when taking a psychiatric medication. Since many mental health disorders also have a risk of death, sometimes the risk is worth taking. It depends on the situation.
>
> Should I take the risk of flying even if the risk was hypothetically as high as you mention? Well if I lived in Syria, you bet I'd get on that plane and try to get the hell out of there.
>
> hp,
You wrote, [...People decide for themselves if they want to accept the risk when taking psychiatric medication....].
Friends, If you are trying to make a more informed decision as to drug yourself or a child or someone else in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, I urge that you follow this thread and parallel threads.
Do people who take these drugs actually know all of the risks involved when they start to take them? If a child is given the drugs, the parent tells the child to take it. I doubt that the child is given a choice based on the child being told all of the risks involved in taking the drug including that the drug could compel them to kill themselves and or others and even go on a shooting spree and commit mass-murder. I doubt that the parent was explained that to them also.
And then there is the condition that the person could be in when they go to the psychiatrist/doctor with depression and suicidal thinking. Many of the drugs have been determined by the FDA to increase suicidal thinking. And the P.I. in many say that the drug will worsen depression. Does the prescriber tell the depressed person that? And then the prescriber could tell the person that they have to take the drug for weeks or months before it will "work", whatever that could mean and they could kill themselves and/or others along the way.
My friends, look back when you were first given these mind-altering drugs and ask yourself how long of a meeting you had and if you walked out with samples or a prescription for the drug that the psychiatrist/doctor gave you.
I am here to reveal to you what could have happened to you and how you could get your life back if you want a new life. I am prevented from doing that due to the prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung here that come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. But I can still try, and some light may penetrate even though I am abiding by the prohibitions that keep me from posting what I think could save your life. You see, I am interested in your health. I know what these drugs are composed of and as to if they are new drugs or just knock-offs of old drugs with new names. I know a lot that I am prohibited from posting here and I am so sorry, my friend. But here is a poster that appreciates my efforts here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120316/msgs/1014248.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 15:54:44
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » SLS, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
> > Thanks for the valuable information!
>
> You're welcome! I think it should be done much more research into interactions with psychotropic drugs.
>
> I find interesting points about interactions in the article "Potentially hazardous drug interactions with psychotropics":
> http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/6/440.full
>
> Some quotes from the article:
> Most interactions are harmless and of only theoretical interest.
> [...]
>
> The evidence for many potential interactions is based only on in vitro or animal research, single case reports or small-scale uncontrolled studies
> [...]
>
> For example, enzyme induction by carbamazepine decreases the effectiveness of tricyclic antidepressants and antipsychotics.
> [...]
>
> Much research has been carried out into potentially hazardous interactions with psychotropic drugs, yet there is much that remains unknown. The evidence for some potential interactions is based on animal experiments, isolated case reports in which there is doubt about the cause-and-effect relationships, or small-scale volunteer studies that may not reflect the action of, and interaction between, drugs in patients.
>
> End of quotes.
>
> I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
>
> - doxogenicFriends,
It is written here, [...most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowledge of (some of)the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence...].
Now I think that you are all the right kind of people and I want to be perfectly frank. You've got one, two three, four, five, six drugs on the table. Drugs that could mark the difference between a live person or a corpse. Did you ever try and sit down as ask if Elvis would be alive if he did not take all those drugs? And how about Anna Nicole Smith and Michael Jackson too?
You see, the citation posted here is from 2005. That is 8 years ago, years when many of these drugs did not have time to be explored for their adverse effects in combination with other drugs.
Now there is a website called ehealthme that cataloged reaction back to 1977 and up to today using millions of reports. The adverse reaction with drug combinations now take on a different perspective than from 2005.
Here is a link to two parts to the site.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com
http://www.ehealthme.com/askus
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by Phil on September 17, 2013, at 0:40:22
> I don't think that the song writer wrote a (hideous) song about a pill, assuming you were serious but hoping you weren't.
P,
YOu wrote,[...a {hideous} song...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Here is a link..
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8R521ah2k
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
In reply to Lou's reply-debbi » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:59:23
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please... (nm), posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
I thought it might be important to restore the original subject line in order to keep it relevant.
- Scott
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » SLS, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
> I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
- doxogenic
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
For me, I find the idea of taking an AAP long term to be unappealing. However, I would gladly take one if it were it to work for me. I have been taking Abilify 10 mg/day for over 10 years. I do better on it than off it. My guess is that I will continue taking it as long as it continues to help me, or until a selective DA D3 partial agonist becomes available.
Have you ever tried taking valproate (Depakote)? It can work well for mixed-state bipolar disorder, and may be combined with oxcarbazepine (Trileptal). You might consider talking to your doctor about switching from oxcarbazepine to valproate rather than taking both at the same time.
- Scott
Posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » Sheilac, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me. In low doses they are great to get me through a bad hypomanic patch, but full time I would totally have to have some sort of med that helps with depression. Which rules out typical ADs - since I have such bad side effects.
However, I have learned a lot recently on this board (it only took years!). I have learned from all the conversations with everyone that my irritability & agitation is a form of hypomania (which I knew), but more importantly, a form of a mixed state. Cycling I guess.
I have been in denial about having mixed states and cycling. I just always thought of myself as constantly irritated, depressed or too high. NOW, I understand those are hallmarks of a mixed BP, even though my primary diagnosis is BPII.
Can you be BPII with mixed?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 21:33:16
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
> > I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
>
> Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
>
> - doxogenicdox,
You wrote the above. There are drug interactions that could lead to death. Last year alone, it is generally accepted that psychiatric drugs caused 42000 deaths. It is generally accepted that taking drugs together can increase the harmful event exponentially. In your case, the drugs listed here that you take could cause serotonin syndrome that could lead to death. And there also could be irregular heart beats that could lead to death. I have the following questions:
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 22:17:58
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs -Scott, posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
> Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me.
I would then consider Topamax or Keppra. I have seen Topamax effectively and completely treat BPII mixed states at a dosage of 100 mg/day. With Topamax, it is important to start low and titrate slowly. If you do this, it will help you to avoid cognitive impairments.
Which AAPs work best for you?
- Scott
Posted by 10derheart on September 17, 2013, at 22:24:30
In reply to Lou's reply-debbi » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
>> P,
YOu wrote,[...a {hideous} song...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here.Phil means that he doesn't like the song?
A love song, per songwriter.
Ms. Boone (not original artist) always said she thinking about/singing to God when she performed it.
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 14:21:54
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-debbi » Lou Pilder, posted by 10derheart on September 17, 2013, at 22:24:30
The song was/is awful and every station had it on heavy rotation. I put that song in the same category as Muskrat Love, Feelings, and Afternoon Delight. Actually Afternoon Delight beats the others.
We used to get requests to play Feelings and the singer would say, sorry never heard of it. Have you noticed that we're a rock band and not a schlock band? :))
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2013, at 19:39:11
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-debbi » 10derheart, posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 14:21:54
> The song was/is awful and every station had it on heavy rotation. I put that song in the same category as Muskrat Love, Feelings, and Afternoon Delight. Actually Afternoon Delight beats the others.
> We used to get requests to play Feelings and the singer would say, sorry never heard of it. Have you noticed that we're a rock band and not a schlock band? :))Phil,
Then how does this song rate? Let's welcome the Bangles
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhOKkwrOLk
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 21:21:25
In reply to Lou's response-eturnul » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2013, at 19:39:11
Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
In reply to Re: Lou's response-eturnul » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 21:21:25
> Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
Phil,
HOw does this one rate?
Lou
Let's welcome Linda Ronstadt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxod1M
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:13:04
In reply to Lou's reply-ag+au, posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
> > Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
>
> Phil,
> HOw does this one rate?
> Lou
> Let's welcome Linda Ronstadt
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxod1Mcorrection:
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxodlM
Posted by Phil on September 19, 2013, at 22:34:25
In reply to Lou's reply-ag+au, posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
I like your musical side Lou.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:15:50
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ag+au » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on September 19, 2013, at 22:34:25
> Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> I like your musical side Lou.
>
Phil,
Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
and then, him that was in the beginning.
http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:22:22
In reply to Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:15:50
> > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > I like your musical side Lou.
> >
> Phil,
> Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> Lou
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> and then, him that was in the beginning.
> http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80ccorrection to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoI
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:27:51
In reply to correction:- Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:22:22
> > > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > > I like your musical side Lou.
> > >
> > Phil,
> > Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> > Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> > Lou
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> > and then, him that was in the beginning.
> > http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
>
> correction to him:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoIcorrection to correction to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBTTHLQS8UM
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 20:00:05
In reply to correction to correction:- Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:27:51
> > > > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > > > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > > > I like your musical side Lou.
> > > >
> > > Phil,
> > > Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> > > Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> > > and then, him that was in the beginning.
> > > http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
> >
> > correction to him:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoI
>
> correction to correction to him:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBTTHLQS8UMPhil,
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiB0e-ufkPE
then,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMb_7HDWjZo
Posted by phidippus on September 23, 2013, at 12:33:54
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
Using AAPs long term stunts brain growth. I don't think you have to be schizophrenic to warrant taking these drugs. They can be useful in controlling dopamine issues in many disorders, such as OCD.
Eric
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