![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by b2chica on September 16, 2013, at 14:03:12
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » Sheilac, posted by doxogenic boy on September 16, 2013, at 13:28:10
have been off and on zyprexa forever.
when i need something in a fix and Nothing else works i can go to zyprexa. it has literally been a life saver for me.
as to what others think about it...i've learned i dont care.
most good pdocs know there are a lot of 'off-label' uses of all sorts of meds. if a pharmacist is good, they should too. if people are telling you to get off them because you are not XYZ. i would tend to wonder why they are so upset about the drug...IF its working for you? they might have issues with the dx, not the drug.after all the meds i've been on. i've Truly learned that if i could take a blood pressure med given to chickens and have it work for my illnes...i'd be the first one in line at the vet's office!
you need to find a doc you trust. and use your instincts. you know your body and what you can tolerate.
Best wishes!
b2c
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 16, 2013, at 14:37:27
In reply to Re- doxogenic, posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 13:53:07
> Interesting you mention that. No one ever told me that anti seizure meds can lessen antipsychotics.
Here is an article about antiepileptic drug interations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001218/And an abstract - "Interactions between antiepileptic and antipsychotic drugs":
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16454538In the abstract above, oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) and ziprasidone (Geodon) are mentioned.
> I used to take 40mg of Geodon, but it wasn't enough, so Trileptal was added. Between the two, my eyesight was awful! I could barely read anything.
Did it work better against irritability when you added Trileptal to Geodon?
> As an experiment, I tried 80mg of Geodon last night. Haven't used any Trileptal in several days. So far today has been great. Even my vision is still good. No hypomania, irritability or depression.
Trileptal has short half life, so it probably doesn't work against the Geodon after several days with no Trileptal.
> Tonight I'm going to see if I can get by on just 60mg. I don't know if it will work, but I'll know pretty early in the morning. If I wake up hyper, I'll know I need the higher dose.
>
> I do worry about long term side effects of AAPs, but being a nice person is very important for my loved ones.It is a difficult choice, but if Geodon works and you get long term side effects, maybe some good years are better than only bad years. This is how
I think about my meds.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:21:30
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
> I have a serious problem with irritability. I don't know if its considered more of a mixed state or just part of the hypomania of BPII. Then, I have the cycles of depression & anxiety.
>
> 25 years ago I started with ADs & over years of ups and downs on antidepressants I developed a painful bladder issue so that now I can't even take Prozac, Zoloft or Effexor, without it burning my bladder.
>
> Plus, all the ups and downs and crappy side effects with antidepressants, weight gain, sexual side effects, etc.
>
> Finally, a pdoc recognized the instability antidepressants were causing in my life and tried other meds. All the mood stabilizers made me depressed (which I was told is their job!), but used in combination with other meds for depression, they helped. I had to stop low dose lithium after I grew thyroid nodules. Trileptal is good, but I have to wear glasses, it ruins my vision.
>
> Now, I'm back to trying Geodon, an atypical antipsychotic, even though I'm not (and my doc says I do not exhibit signs of) psychosis. At the low end of 20mg, it can help me sleep, but makes me hypomanic the next day. If I try and take it twice a day I sleep or have to take serious stimulants (Adderall & coffee) to stay awake.
>
> I can take a higher dose at night and it seems to keep me normal (no irritability, nice to my husband, no rages, and no daytime hangover). No great bliss that I used to get from ADs, but oh well. Last night was my trial of 80mg and today I feel good. No hypomania. Tonight I'll see if I can drop it to 60mg. I know the lowest effective dose is best. I report back to my shrink in a few weeks.
>
> Here's the thing: I'm worried. People are real freaky about the use of atypical antipsychotics if you're not really schizophrenic.
>
> Should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me? Someone suggested trying a super low dose of Abilify instead. Is one AAP REALLY better than another? I took 50mg of Seroquel for years for sleep.
>
> I'm sure my shrink would prefer a plain old antidepressant and low dose mood stabilized. But I can't seem to find anything that helps.
>
> I question my "label". My old doc that retired said I was "mixed state". Maybe that's where the severe irritability and anger come in, followed by depression & anxiety.
>
> So, what are your thoughts on using an AAP for maintenance? Bad plan long term?
>
> I wonder about maybe visiting with my husbands neurologist and getting his opinion. I'm sure he'd yank me off AAPs too.S,
You wrote,[...should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me?...].
I think that if you knew what the drug was, that you could make your own determination as to take this drug or not.(Geodon).
The drug is composed of chemicals brought together chemically. One of the chemicals is Benzene. Another is a chemical used in insecticides and to kill fungus and to make chemical dyes. Another is a chemical found in organisms that emit light, like the firefly or squid and other animals such as snails and shrimp. I do not know of any studies to see if people taking this drug for years have light being emitted from them, but I always wondered if Debbie Boone was referring to this drug in her song, "You Light up My Life"
When these drugs get approval, the long-term effects on people are not known until later, after
many years of thousands of people using and reporting adverse responses that could be caused by the drug, including death.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:35:11
In reply to Lou's response- » Sheilac, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:21:30
> > I have a serious problem with irritability. I don't know if its considered more of a mixed state or just part of the hypomania of BPII. Then, I have the cycles of depression & anxiety.
> >
> > 25 years ago I started with ADs & over years of ups and downs on antidepressants I developed a painful bladder issue so that now I can't even take Prozac, Zoloft or Effexor, without it burning my bladder.
> >
> > Plus, all the ups and downs and crappy side effects with antidepressants, weight gain, sexual side effects, etc.
> >
> > Finally, a pdoc recognized the instability antidepressants were causing in my life and tried other meds. All the mood stabilizers made me depressed (which I was told is their job!), but used in combination with other meds for depression, they helped. I had to stop low dose lithium after I grew thyroid nodules. Trileptal is good, but I have to wear glasses, it ruins my vision.
> >
> > Now, I'm back to trying Geodon, an atypical antipsychotic, even though I'm not (and my doc says I do not exhibit signs of) psychosis. At the low end of 20mg, it can help me sleep, but makes me hypomanic the next day. If I try and take it twice a day I sleep or have to take serious stimulants (Adderall & coffee) to stay awake.
> >
> > I can take a higher dose at night and it seems to keep me normal (no irritability, nice to my husband, no rages, and no daytime hangover). No great bliss that I used to get from ADs, but oh well. Last night was my trial of 80mg and today I feel good. No hypomania. Tonight I'll see if I can drop it to 60mg. I know the lowest effective dose is best. I report back to my shrink in a few weeks.
> >
> > Here's the thing: I'm worried. People are real freaky about the use of atypical antipsychotics if you're not really schizophrenic.
> >
> > Should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me? Someone suggested trying a super low dose of Abilify instead. Is one AAP REALLY better than another? I took 50mg of Seroquel for years for sleep.
> >
> > I'm sure my shrink would prefer a plain old antidepressant and low dose mood stabilized. But I can't seem to find anything that helps.
> >
> > I question my "label". My old doc that retired said I was "mixed state". Maybe that's where the severe irritability and anger come in, followed by depression & anxiety.
> >
> > So, what are your thoughts on using an AAP for maintenance? Bad plan long term?
> >
> > I wonder about maybe visiting with my husbands neurologist and getting his opinion. I'm sure he'd yank me off AAPs too.
>
> S,
> You wrote,[...should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me?...].
> I think that if you knew what the drug was, that you could make your own determination as to take this drug or not.(Geodon).
> The drug is composed of chemicals brought together chemically. One of the chemicals is Benzene. Another is a chemical used in insecticides and to kill fungus and to make chemical dyes. Another is a chemical found in organisms that emit light, like the firefly or squid and other animals such as snails and shrimp. I do not know of any studies to see if people taking this drug for years have light being emitted from them, but I always wondered if Debbie Boone was referring to this drug in her song, "You Light up My Life"
> When these drugs get approval, the long-term effects on people are not known until later, after
> many years of thousands of people using and reporting adverse responses that could be caused by the drug, including death.
>
So looking at the long-term effects from Geodon, we find death being reported. The numbers disturb me because of the statistical aspect . Here it is:
Lou
http://www.eheathme.com/ds/geodon/death
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:36:44
In reply to : Lou's response-geodon/death, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:35:11
> > > I have a serious problem with irritability. I don't know if its considered more of a mixed state or just part of the hypomania of BPII. Then, I have the cycles of depression & anxiety.
> > >
> > > 25 years ago I started with ADs & over years of ups and downs on antidepressants I developed a painful bladder issue so that now I can't even take Prozac, Zoloft or Effexor, without it burning my bladder.
> > >
> > > Plus, all the ups and downs and crappy side effects with antidepressants, weight gain, sexual side effects, etc.
> > >
> > > Finally, a pdoc recognized the instability antidepressants were causing in my life and tried other meds. All the mood stabilizers made me depressed (which I was told is their job!), but used in combination with other meds for depression, they helped. I had to stop low dose lithium after I grew thyroid nodules. Trileptal is good, but I have to wear glasses, it ruins my vision.
> > >
> > > Now, I'm back to trying Geodon, an atypical antipsychotic, even though I'm not (and my doc says I do not exhibit signs of) psychosis. At the low end of 20mg, it can help me sleep, but makes me hypomanic the next day. If I try and take it twice a day I sleep or have to take serious stimulants (Adderall & coffee) to stay awake.
> > >
> > > I can take a higher dose at night and it seems to keep me normal (no irritability, nice to my husband, no rages, and no daytime hangover). No great bliss that I used to get from ADs, but oh well. Last night was my trial of 80mg and today I feel good. No hypomania. Tonight I'll see if I can drop it to 60mg. I know the lowest effective dose is best. I report back to my shrink in a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Here's the thing: I'm worried. People are real freaky about the use of atypical antipsychotics if you're not really schizophrenic.
> > >
> > > Should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me? Someone suggested trying a super low dose of Abilify instead. Is one AAP REALLY better than another? I took 50mg of Seroquel for years for sleep.
> > >
> > > I'm sure my shrink would prefer a plain old antidepressant and low dose mood stabilized. But I can't seem to find anything that helps.
> > >
> > > I question my "label". My old doc that retired said I was "mixed state". Maybe that's where the severe irritability and anger come in, followed by depression & anxiety.
> > >
> > > So, what are your thoughts on using an AAP for maintenance? Bad plan long term?
> > >
> > > I wonder about maybe visiting with my husbands neurologist and getting his opinion. I'm sure he'd yank me off AAPs too.
> >
> > S,
> > You wrote,[...should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me?...].
> > I think that if you knew what the drug was, that you could make your own determination as to take this drug or not.(Geodon).
> > The drug is composed of chemicals brought together chemically. One of the chemicals is Benzene. Another is a chemical used in insecticides and to kill fungus and to make chemical dyes. Another is a chemical found in organisms that emit light, like the firefly or squid and other animals such as snails and shrimp. I do not know of any studies to see if people taking this drug for years have light being emitted from them, but I always wondered if Debbie Boone was referring to this drug in her song, "You Light up My Life"
> > When these drugs get approval, the long-term effects on people are not known until later, after
> > many years of thousands of people using and reporting adverse responses that could be caused by the drug, including death.
> >
> So looking at the long-term effects from Geodon, we find death being reported. The numbers disturb me because of the statistical aspect . Here it is:
> Lou
> http://www.eheathme.com/ds/geodon/deathcorrection:
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/geodon/death
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:44:26
In reply to correction: Lou's response-geodon/death, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:36:44
> > > > I have a serious problem with irritability. I don't know if its considered more of a mixed state or just part of the hypomania of BPII. Then, I have the cycles of depression & anxiety.
> > > >
> > > > 25 years ago I started with ADs & over years of ups and downs on antidepressants I developed a painful bladder issue so that now I can't even take Prozac, Zoloft or Effexor, without it burning my bladder.
> > > >
> > > > Plus, all the ups and downs and crappy side effects with antidepressants, weight gain, sexual side effects, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, a pdoc recognized the instability antidepressants were causing in my life and tried other meds. All the mood stabilizers made me depressed (which I was told is their job!), but used in combination with other meds for depression, they helped. I had to stop low dose lithium after I grew thyroid nodules. Trileptal is good, but I have to wear glasses, it ruins my vision.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I'm back to trying Geodon, an atypical antipsychotic, even though I'm not (and my doc says I do not exhibit signs of) psychosis. At the low end of 20mg, it can help me sleep, but makes me hypomanic the next day. If I try and take it twice a day I sleep or have to take serious stimulants (Adderall & coffee) to stay awake.
> > > >
> > > > I can take a higher dose at night and it seems to keep me normal (no irritability, nice to my husband, no rages, and no daytime hangover). No great bliss that I used to get from ADs, but oh well. Last night was my trial of 80mg and today I feel good. No hypomania. Tonight I'll see if I can drop it to 60mg. I know the lowest effective dose is best. I report back to my shrink in a few weeks.
> > > >
> > > > Here's the thing: I'm worried. People are real freaky about the use of atypical antipsychotics if you're not really schizophrenic.
> > > >
> > > > Should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me? Someone suggested trying a super low dose of Abilify instead. Is one AAP REALLY better than another? I took 50mg of Seroquel for years for sleep.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure my shrink would prefer a plain old antidepressant and low dose mood stabilized. But I can't seem to find anything that helps.
> > > >
> > > > I question my "label". My old doc that retired said I was "mixed state". Maybe that's where the severe irritability and anger come in, followed by depression & anxiety.
> > > >
> > > > So, what are your thoughts on using an AAP for maintenance? Bad plan long term?
> > > >
> > > > I wonder about maybe visiting with my husbands neurologist and getting his opinion. I'm sure he'd yank me off AAPs too.
> > >
> > > S,
> > > You wrote,[...should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me?...].
> > > I think that if you knew what the drug was, that you could make your own determination as to take this drug or not.(Geodon).
> > > The drug is composed of chemicals brought together chemically. One of the chemicals is Benzene. Another is a chemical used in insecticides and to kill fungus and to make chemical dyes. Another is a chemical found in organisms that emit light, like the firefly or squid and other animals such as snails and shrimp. I do not know of any studies to see if people taking this drug for years have light being emitted from them, but I always wondered if Debbie Boone was referring to this drug in her song, "You Light up My Life"
> > > When these drugs get approval, the long-term effects on people are not known until later, after
> > > many years of thousands of people using and reporting adverse responses that could be caused by the drug, including death.
> > >
> > So looking at the long-term effects from Geodon, we find death being reported. The numbers disturb me because of the statistical aspect . Here it is:
> > Lou
> > http://www.eheathme.com/ds/geodon/death
>
> correction:
> http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/geodon/deathThe question here is about being concerned about this drug. I feel disturbed when I read the statistics concerning this drug for death. You see, the deaths all happen in the first year mostly and the rest in the second year. There is the thinking that you have to keep taking some of these drugs to some point in time, usually weeks or months, before they "work", whatever that could mean. So those under that thinking, could keep taking the drug because it does not "work" on the advice of psychiatrists and doctors that tell those that they give the drugs to that they have to take them for weeks or months. And there are the times when the drug could kill those taking it.
Lou
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 16, 2013, at 17:10:46
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
I know this sounds weird, but...1) Symbyax, with metformin to counteract weight gain....2) low dose Triavil, with antioxidants to prevent TD...3)some kinda sedating AP (low dose thorazine, Seroquel, etc.) plus a stimulant.Just some random thoughts. Listen your doc(s).
Posted by Phil on September 16, 2013, at 17:49:08
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
As mentioned, if you gain weight on AAP's, Metformin kicks weight gains butt.
On Zyprexa I had a six days stay in the hospital with really bad fever. 98.6 to 103.5 in under 30 minutes. My doc thinks it was NMS.
Seroquel, besides weight gain gave me Pisa Syndrome. My 'trunk' is slightly twisted and I lean very slightly to the left.
So, you can get serious side effects from AP's but you can die from eating bagged spinach.
When my doc said have an MRI for the Pisa Syndrome I did. Results..nothing remarkable. But I got to spend some time with the neurologist and talk about meds. Klonopin 1.5 mg...that's a pretty high dose.
Seroquel...Have you ever been psychotic? Nope.
He made me think, not easy.
BTW, an MRI of the brain is super loud. Wear those earphones.
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 16, 2013, at 18:02:45
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Christ_empowered on September 16, 2013, at 17:10:46
oh...or...Orthomolecular! Yes, I'm a 1960s, one trick pony. Seriously, though: give it a thought.
Posted by 10derheart on September 16, 2013, at 18:50:26
In reply to Lou's response- » Sheilac, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:21:30
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 19:09:35
In reply to Lou feels disturbed by this drug (Geodon), posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 16:44:26
> > > > > I have a serious problem with irritability. I don't know if its considered more of a mixed state or just part of the hypomania of BPII. Then, I have the cycles of depression & anxiety.
> > > > >
> > > > > 25 years ago I started with ADs & over years of ups and downs on antidepressants I developed a painful bladder issue so that now I can't even take Prozac, Zoloft or Effexor, without it burning my bladder.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus, all the ups and downs and crappy side effects with antidepressants, weight gain, sexual side effects, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, a pdoc recognized the instability antidepressants were causing in my life and tried other meds. All the mood stabilizers made me depressed (which I was told is their job!), but used in combination with other meds for depression, they helped. I had to stop low dose lithium after I grew thyroid nodules. Trileptal is good, but I have to wear glasses, it ruins my vision.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, I'm back to trying Geodon, an atypical antipsychotic, even though I'm not (and my doc says I do not exhibit signs of) psychosis. At the low end of 20mg, it can help me sleep, but makes me hypomanic the next day. If I try and take it twice a day I sleep or have to take serious stimulants (Adderall & coffee) to stay awake.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can take a higher dose at night and it seems to keep me normal (no irritability, nice to my husband, no rages, and no daytime hangover). No great bliss that I used to get from ADs, but oh well. Last night was my trial of 80mg and today I feel good. No hypomania. Tonight I'll see if I can drop it to 60mg. I know the lowest effective dose is best. I report back to my shrink in a few weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's the thing: I'm worried. People are real freaky about the use of atypical antipsychotics if you're not really schizophrenic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me? Someone suggested trying a super low dose of Abilify instead. Is one AAP REALLY better than another? I took 50mg of Seroquel for years for sleep.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure my shrink would prefer a plain old antidepressant and low dose mood stabilized. But I can't seem to find anything that helps.
> > > > >
> > > > > I question my "label". My old doc that retired said I was "mixed state". Maybe that's where the severe irritability and anger come in, followed by depression & anxiety.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, what are your thoughts on using an AAP for maintenance? Bad plan long term?
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder about maybe visiting with my husbands neurologist and getting his opinion. I'm sure he'd yank me off AAPs too.
> > > >
> > > > S,
> > > > You wrote,[...should I be worried about the effects this drug can have on me?...].
> > > > I think that if you knew what the drug was, that you could make your own determination as to take this drug or not.(Geodon).
> > > > The drug is composed of chemicals brought together chemically. One of the chemicals is Benzene. Another is a chemical used in insecticides and to kill fungus and to make chemical dyes. Another is a chemical found in organisms that emit light, like the firefly or squid and other animals such as snails and shrimp. I do not know of any studies to see if people taking this drug for years have light being emitted from them, but I always wondered if Debbie Boone was referring to this drug in her song, "You Light up My Life"
> > > > When these drugs get approval, the long-term effects on people are not known until later, after
> > > > many years of thousands of people using and reporting adverse responses that could be caused by the drug, including death.
> > > >
> > > So looking at the long-term effects from Geodon, we find death being reported. The numbers disturb me because of the statistical aspect . Here it is:
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.eheathme.com/ds/geodon/death
> >
> > correction:
> > http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/geodon/death
>
> The question here is about being concerned about this drug. I feel disturbed when I read the statistics concerning this drug for death. You see, the deaths all happen in the first year mostly and the rest in the second year. There is the thinking that you have to keep taking some of these drugs to some point in time, usually weeks or months, before they "work", whatever that could mean. So those under that thinking, could keep taking the drug because it does not "work" on the advice of psychiatrists and doctors that tell those that they give the drugs to that they have to take them for weeks or months. And there are the times when the drug could kill those taking it.
>S,
If you are considering taking Geodon in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, I urge you to read my posts. You see, I know what the chemicals are in the drug and a lot more that I am prevented from posting here due to prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung.
One of the horrifying conditions induced by many of these drugs is Tardive Dyskinesia/Dystonia. Could be not reversible and then those that have this induced into them by the drug then could have a lifetime of misery.
Here is a link to the statistics concerning this. I see the number is huge, statistically that is. Would you take an airplane if the probability of the plane exploding at 10,000 feet be the same as the stats here of getting TD from Geodon? But just remember the probability of getting some condition as life-ruining from the drug is the sum of the probabilities for each. So if it is 5% for this and 4% for that and 3% for another and so forth, then if there are 20 life-ruining conditions that one could get from Geodon, then the sum of the probabilities could be a certainty.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/geodon/tardive+dyskinesia
Posted by Phil on September 17, 2013, at 0:40:22
In reply to Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 19:09:35
I don't think that the song writer wrote a (hideous) song about a pill, assuming you were serious but hoping you weren't.
Posted by herpills on September 17, 2013, at 10:28:36
In reply to Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2013, at 19:09:35
Lou Pilder said
> Here is a link to the statistics concerning this. I see the number is huge, statistically that is. Would you take an airplane if the probability of the plane exploding at 10,000 feet be the same as the stats here of getting TD from Geodon? >People decide for themselves if they want to accept that risk when taking a psychiatric medication. Since many mental health disorders also have a risk of death, sometimes the risk is worth taking. It depends on the situation.
Should I take the risk of flying even if the risk was hypothetically as high as you mention? Well if I lived in Syria, you bet I'd get on that plane and try to get the hell out of there.
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 13:01:08
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » Sheilac, posted by doxogenic boy on September 16, 2013, at 14:37:27
Thanks for the valuable information!
- Scott
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » doxogenic boy, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 13:01:08
> Thanks for the valuable information!
You're welcome! I think it should be done much more research into interactions with psychotropic drugs.
I find interesting points about interactions in the article "Potentially hazardous drug interactions with psychotropics":
http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/6/440.fullSome quotes from the article:
Most interactions are harmless and of only theoretical interest.
[...]The evidence for many potential interactions is based only on in vitro or animal research, single case reports or small-scale uncontrolled studies
[...]For example, enzyme induction by carbamazepine decreases the effectiveness of tricyclic antidepressants and antipsychotics.
[...]Much research has been carried out into potentially hazardous interactions with psychotropic drugs, yet there is much that remains unknown. The evidence for some potential interactions is based on animal experiments, isolated case reports in which there is doubt about the cause-and-effect relationships, or small-scale volunteer studies that may not reflect the action of, and interaction between, drugs in patients.
End of quotes.
I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
- doxogenic
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 14:42:48
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by herpills on September 17, 2013, at 10:28:36
> Lou Pilder said
> > Here is a link to the statistics concerning this. I see the number is huge, statistically that is. Would you take an airplane if the probability of the plane exploding at 10,000 feet be the same as the stats here of getting TD from Geodon? >
>
> People decide for themselves if they want to accept that risk when taking a psychiatric medication. Since many mental health disorders also have a risk of death, sometimes the risk is worth taking. It depends on the situation.
>
> Should I take the risk of flying even if the risk was hypothetically as high as you mention? Well if I lived in Syria, you bet I'd get on that plane and try to get the hell out of there.
>
> hp,
You wrote, [...People decide for themselves if they want to accept the risk when taking psychiatric medication....].
Friends, If you are trying to make a more informed decision as to drug yourself or a child or someone else in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor, I urge that you follow this thread and parallel threads.
Do people who take these drugs actually know all of the risks involved when they start to take them? If a child is given the drugs, the parent tells the child to take it. I doubt that the child is given a choice based on the child being told all of the risks involved in taking the drug including that the drug could compel them to kill themselves and or others and even go on a shooting spree and commit mass-murder. I doubt that the parent was explained that to them also.
And then there is the condition that the person could be in when they go to the psychiatrist/doctor with depression and suicidal thinking. Many of the drugs have been determined by the FDA to increase suicidal thinking. And the P.I. in many say that the drug will worsen depression. Does the prescriber tell the depressed person that? And then the prescriber could tell the person that they have to take the drug for weeks or months before it will "work", whatever that could mean and they could kill themselves and/or others along the way.
My friends, look back when you were first given these mind-altering drugs and ask yourself how long of a meeting you had and if you walked out with samples or a prescription for the drug that the psychiatrist/doctor gave you.
I am here to reveal to you what could have happened to you and how you could get your life back if you want a new life. I am prevented from doing that due to the prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung here that come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. But I can still try, and some light may penetrate even though I am abiding by the prohibitions that keep me from posting what I think could save your life. You see, I am interested in your health. I know what these drugs are composed of and as to if they are new drugs or just knock-offs of old drugs with new names. I know a lot that I am prohibited from posting here and I am so sorry, my friend. But here is a poster that appreciates my efforts here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120316/msgs/1014248.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 15:54:44
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » SLS, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
> > Thanks for the valuable information!
>
> You're welcome! I think it should be done much more research into interactions with psychotropic drugs.
>
> I find interesting points about interactions in the article "Potentially hazardous drug interactions with psychotropics":
> http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/6/440.full
>
> Some quotes from the article:
> Most interactions are harmless and of only theoretical interest.
> [...]
>
> The evidence for many potential interactions is based only on in vitro or animal research, single case reports or small-scale uncontrolled studies
> [...]
>
> For example, enzyme induction by carbamazepine decreases the effectiveness of tricyclic antidepressants and antipsychotics.
> [...]
>
> Much research has been carried out into potentially hazardous interactions with psychotropic drugs, yet there is much that remains unknown. The evidence for some potential interactions is based on animal experiments, isolated case reports in which there is doubt about the cause-and-effect relationships, or small-scale volunteer studies that may not reflect the action of, and interaction between, drugs in patients.
>
> End of quotes.
>
> I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
>
> - doxogenicFriends,
It is written here, [...most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowledge of (some of)the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence...].
Now I think that you are all the right kind of people and I want to be perfectly frank. You've got one, two three, four, five, six drugs on the table. Drugs that could mark the difference between a live person or a corpse. Did you ever try and sit down as ask if Elvis would be alive if he did not take all those drugs? And how about Anna Nicole Smith and Michael Jackson too?
You see, the citation posted here is from 2005. That is 8 years ago, years when many of these drugs did not have time to be explored for their adverse effects in combination with other drugs.
Now there is a website called ehealthme that cataloged reaction back to 1977 and up to today using millions of reports. The adverse reaction with drug combinations now take on a different perspective than from 2005.
Here is a link to two parts to the site.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com
http://www.ehealthme.com/askus
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-psoewannahteykgeodon, posted by Phil on September 17, 2013, at 0:40:22
> I don't think that the song writer wrote a (hideous) song about a pill, assuming you were serious but hoping you weren't.
P,
YOu wrote,[...a {hideous} song...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. Here is a link..
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8R521ah2k
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
In reply to Lou's reply-debbi » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:59:23
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please... (nm), posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
I thought it might be important to restore the original subject line in order to keep it relevant.
- Scott
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » SLS, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
> I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
- doxogenic
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
For me, I find the idea of taking an AAP long term to be unappealing. However, I would gladly take one if it were it to work for me. I have been taking Abilify 10 mg/day for over 10 years. I do better on it than off it. My guess is that I will continue taking it as long as it continues to help me, or until a selective DA D3 partial agonist becomes available.
Have you ever tried taking valproate (Depakote)? It can work well for mixed-state bipolar disorder, and may be combined with oxcarbazepine (Trileptal). You might consider talking to your doctor about switching from oxcarbazepine to valproate rather than taking both at the same time.
- Scott
Posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » Sheilac, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me. In low doses they are great to get me through a bad hypomanic patch, but full time I would totally have to have some sort of med that helps with depression. Which rules out typical ADs - since I have such bad side effects.
However, I have learned a lot recently on this board (it only took years!). I have learned from all the conversations with everyone that my irritability & agitation is a form of hypomania (which I knew), but more importantly, a form of a mixed state. Cycling I guess.
I have been in denial about having mixed states and cycling. I just always thought of myself as constantly irritated, depressed or too high. NOW, I understand those are hallmarks of a mixed BP, even though my primary diagnosis is BPII.
Can you be BPII with mixed?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 21:33:16
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
> > I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
>
> Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
>
> - doxogenicdox,
You wrote the above. There are drug interactions that could lead to death. Last year alone, it is generally accepted that psychiatric drugs caused 42000 deaths. It is generally accepted that taking drugs together can increase the harmful event exponentially. In your case, the drugs listed here that you take could cause serotonin syndrome that could lead to death. And there also could be irregular heart beats that could lead to death. I have the following questions:
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 22:17:58
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs -Scott, posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
> Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me.
I would then consider Topamax or Keppra. I have seen Topamax effectively and completely treat BPII mixed states at a dosage of 100 mg/day. With Topamax, it is important to start low and titrate slowly. If you do this, it will help you to avoid cognitive impairments.
Which AAPs work best for you?
- Scott
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