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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:42:33
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not » mbrational, posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2013, at 12:00:46
> Is this good? Phillipa
Yeah, antagonize this agonize that.. lets just play god although we have little clue of whats really going on.
Seroquel kills me at doses above 400mg. They want me to take it at 8 PM.. f*ck*ng faschists. As if im obligated to do that.
Im going to store it in my mouth, throw 100mg away so i dont wind up taking 500mg and take it whenever the hell i want. F*ck*ng authoritarian f*cks.
They lie to me about ANY antipsychotic being good for depression, i lie at THEM about when or how much i take.
Schizo-affective disorder really exposes psychiatry for what it is.. a pseudo science drug pushing and population controlling institution.
Schizo affective disorder combines so called "symptoms of low dopamine and serotonine" with "symptoms of high dopamine and high serotonine". How come i have both and still feel f*ck*d up.
So whats the point with doing all this medication sh*t, when i cant really raise serotonin or dopamine and cant really lower it?
Smells like bad science and a betrayal of my faith in medicine and society.
Posted by mbrational on July 28, 2013, at 12:50:30
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not » mbrational, posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2013, at 12:00:46
It means at least that you can`t discard it as an antidepressant on a theoretical basis. Doesn`t mean that it will act as an antidepressant for everyone taking it though it does for me. But I can only take 400 mg, if I take more than that I feel worse.
Markus
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:57:08
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:42:33
Mind you, i never had anything "schizo" in my life prior to agreeing to take psychiatric medication.
Yeah, i wasnt always very happy, but thats about it. I was FAR better off than i am now.
Now you could explain this by saying my "disorder" just coincidentally broke out by the time i visited the psychiatrist, but you dont know that.
I remember, the day before Nardil kicked in for me, i heard voices while i was in the office at the computer. And that was the first time in my ENTIRE LIFE i heard voices. Then, i felt like i was on extasy every day. Sometimes, i wish it would have gone like gambling went for me. I sat at the table the first time in my life, i put 50$ on it, and i lost it. Lesson learned. No gambling problem.
I went to the pdoc.. and he made me feel like some kind of "enlightment extasy rave". That might have been the event that ruined my life. Im hooked.
I just want to get back to the way i was before i started to put my life into the hands of a psychiatrist.
Is there a way out at all? Sometimes i think its easier to leave a cult like the mormons or scientology, than to break free of this b*llsh*t industry.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:58:42
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by mbrational on July 28, 2013, at 12:50:30
> It means at least that you can`t discard it as an antidepressant on a theoretical basis. Doesn`t mean that it will act as an antidepressant for everyone taking it though it does for me. But I can only take 400 mg, if I take more than that I feel worse.
>
> MarkusSame for me. I believe 350 is the sweet spot for me.
Posted by mbrational on July 28, 2013, at 13:01:01
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:42:33
I understand you as when I was inpatient there have also been a few doctors that turned every legitimate dissent into a power struggle. But I think its going to be important for you to distinguish between stupid and authoritarian doctors engaging in struggles of power (and there are certainly quite a few) and perceptions or emotions that might at least partially also be influenced by your illness.
Markus
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 13:18:32
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 12:58:42
Though i cant feel anything against depression..
The only thing it does is keep me from thinking "i am responsible for all the ailments of this world" and reduces that to have me thinking im just a useless existence.
Thats ok, but its not like it enables me to live a happy life whatsoever.
I see there is a possibility that my illness just coincidentally REALLY broke out at the time i took the Psychiatrists drug, but there is also the possibility that this drug made me REALLY ill in the first place.
I got through school alright, i had hobbies i very much enjoyed. I had friends with whom i did sometimes more sometimes less, but i had a life that could be considered within the norm and worth living.
Thats gone to some degree. And to say im pissed would be an understatement.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 13:46:02
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by mbrational on July 28, 2013, at 13:01:01
"perceptions or emotions that might at least partially also be influenced by your illness."
>
> MarkusThey might be, but we dont know that. Isnt it a bit worrying, that they have dragged my self-esteem down to such a degree, that i even doubt what i really want and think?
Id rather be in error because of my "illness" or whatever you might call it, than be in error of believing these "all knowing" mental health-personell everything they say.
Sometimes i feel like im in a freaking cult. Cults drag your self esteem down to the same degree.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 13:51:02
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 13:46:02
They tend to see everything as my illness.. im sick of it and im sure that this is b*llsh*t.. to see everyhting as my illness. There is no better way of dragging someones self-esteem down. They even make indirect threats to incapacitate me.
They thought about stopping me from selling a home where im probably going to make like 65k selling it.
Now WHO has lost their minds?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 14:02:00
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 13:51:02
Who gives a sh*t..
Maybe it is your illness, that you are so devoted to our gods, the dear Psychiatrists.
Im just mad. Thats it. If they wanna kick me out.. i will be just like "oh so YOU have enough of ME!? thats fantastic, good bye".
They wanna kick me out, because im not taking 600mgs of Seroquel, because i already felt like killing myself on 500mgs for 3 days, which i didnt do before on 300mg and 400mg? If they wanna do that, then im sure its for the best.
They think its my illness, that i am mad because i only became psychotic at all since i took the Psychiatrists stuff? So thats being ill? Well, then i do not want to be healthy.
F*ck them. Only a fool can not see through their facade. They dont even really try to put it up. They dont care anymore. Seeing peoples real faces is a healthy thing i would believe.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 28, 2013, at 15:06:30
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 14:02:00
Hi,
I've nothing useful to say except that I'm in a f*ck the world moment. I'd like to throw out my medications.
I hope you find some resolution.
Posted by linkadge on July 28, 2013, at 17:39:47
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not » Lamdage22, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 28, 2013, at 15:06:30
I don't know who would prescribe 500mg of seroquel for pure depression. This is not a first line treatment for depression.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2013, at 20:16:18
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by linkadge on July 28, 2013, at 17:39:47
Schizoaffective? I know personality. But isn't it a lot like schizophrenia? I ask as really don't know. Phillipa
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 3:13:14
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on July 28, 2013, at 20:16:18
> Schizoaffective? I know personality. But isn't it a lot like schizophrenia? I ask as really don't know. Phillipa
Its like Schizophrenia AND depression and/or bipolar disorder.
Yet i came in with nothing but 200mg Seroquel and NO psychosis. Only complaint was depression. What happened so far: Seroquel up to 600! and 10!!! mg Parnate. Thats two and a half months work.
Pretty darn disappointing.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 6:36:05
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 3:13:14
Its no fun at all.. you know its not like when you have depression, you raise serotonin and dopamine and your fine.
And its not like schizophrenia, where you lower both and your fine. (Personally i dont believe in adrenergic medications much at all)So whatever you do for Schizo-Affective, its wrong. Its a really severe mental illness that psychiatry doesnt have any (simple) answers to. If any at all.
Im a sucker for Jatrosom now.. i put up with triple the dose of Seroquel that is sufficient to keep me out of psychosis for (currently) some lousy 20 mgs of Parnate.
Only thing i can think of as alternative would be Solian. And who knows if those (Abilify, Seroquel and Solian) marketed to be good against depression are any more than good marketing.
Anyone know of any else that are not supposed to make u lethargic and depressed? I dont.
Cant take Abilify, it makes me jump up the walls. And i think there is no good enough cure for that. I thought Neurontin or Lyrica, but doctors didnt agree and took me off. Abilify really didnt worsen my depression, think its because of controlling dopamine rather than mitigating its effects altogether.
No simple answers here if any at all. Currently 600mg of Seroquel makes me depressed like sh*t.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 6:59:55
In reply to Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2013, at 9:50:48
Idk, im just desperate for answers.
And im not desperate for late-Dyskinesia from Solian.
Read about compounds called Sertindole and Depixol.
The coolest as far as i know would be Abilify minus the restlessness or akathisia. Docs cant decide which one of the two it is that i get from Abilify. Other than that it was pretty cool. (For a psyche med)
Posted by SLS on July 29, 2013, at 13:20:06
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 6:36:05
Amisulpride is a AP that is supposed to have antidepressant properties. It is suggested that this is due, in part, to 5-HT7 receptor blockade. However, it is also preferential to the DA presynaptic autoreceptor, which makes it similar to sulpiride.
Is asenapine available?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 29, 2013, at 13:24:37
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not » Lamdage22, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 28, 2013, at 15:06:30
> Hi,
> I've nothing useful to say except that I'm in a f*ck the world moment. I'd like to throw out my medications.
> I hope you find some resolution.
Psychiatry is maddeningly and disgustingly primitive. I wouldn't try to assign blame, though.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 29, 2013, at 13:53:51
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2013, at 6:36:05
>its not like when you have depression, you raise serotonin and dopamine and your fine.
If only...
>And its not like schizophrenia, where you lower both and your fine....
The majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are never fine again, I'm afraid. Medications often produce some improvement but many symptoms remain.
Schizoaffective disorder generally has a better outcome than schizophrenia. The proportion of people ending up seriously disabled is less.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 1:53:08
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 29, 2013, at 13:53:51
Thanks ed, thats reassuring.
Saphris (asenapine) is available, but it is only approved for the treatment of the manic phase of bipolar disorder over here.
Are sulpirid and amisulpirid the same or similar in side effects?
I wish we could find a way to make a high dose of Abilify work for me. If beta blockers help, maybe prazosine would help, too.
Beta blocker made me too drowsy, and the choline-antagonists are addicting and antagonize abilifys antipsychotic effect some.Right now im thinking either lyrica, neurontin or prazosin to make Abilify work without the akathisia/restlessness. Im going to suggest that at some point. I realize that all those three substances make you drowsy and hungry, too, but its more like a pleasant "benzo" drowsy, rather than the "omg, my pdoc nuked my dopamine systhem" drowsy that i get from Seroquel doses above 400mg.
300 to 400 mgs of Seroquel is fine, but the question is is it enough to make me tolerate a decent Parnate dosage without adverse (psychosis/mania) effects.
Thats the big question here. Or, if i need 500 or 600 mgs of Seroquel, does the Parnate prevent the depression and lethargy that comes along with those doses of Seroquel.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 7:56:36
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 1:53:08
So the Prof here that unfortunately is going on vacation for 3 weeks set the road to the full 60mg Parnate dosage straight. Hes above all other drs so i can kick back, relax and see where this is going.
The Prof. that takes his place for the time he is absent is pretty critical that Jatrosom is the right thing for my Schizo-affective, but i guess he will go along with the recommendations anyway.
So i hear Seroquel helps against bipolar depression in dosages between 200 and 400. So im supposed to take 600 now and i wonder if at that dosage, Seroquel still helps the depression or at least wont make it worse. Between me and you, only 500 of that 600 actually reach my intestine.
I am unsure what Acetylcysteine dosage to take. High doses made me pretty agitated and possibly pre-psychotic or pre-manic. Other than that it had a nice effect though. I took ALOT. Prolly wont take more than 1200 for now and see.
So as of now, im not planning to take anything than Nardil or Jatrosom (if at all Marplan) AND Seroquel or Abilify.
Thats the plan i shouldnt stray from, or i will never be stable.
If anything could take away Abilifys restlessness/akathisia side effect, id probably be a pretty happy fellow despite my schizo-affective illness.
I am wary of what Seroquel does to (atypical) depression at doses excess of 400mg. No idea. Im scared that the high dose of Seroquel will flush the Parnate effect down the toilet and/or i cant get along with only 400mg of Seroquel and 50 or 60mg of Parnate.
Also im a bit scared i will be agitated due to the "double hit" on adrenalin due to Norquetiapin and Parnate. Why cant they make a clean serotonin MAOI ?? Not enough interest in the market?
Is it true, that Nardil is more serotonergic and less dopaminergic and adrenergic than Parnate?
One thing is for sure. If they find a safe alternative to Abilify without the nervous side effects, i will be the first to join.
Posted by Twinleaf on July 30, 2013, at 8:46:00
In reply to Alright i stop the complaining. Prof: maybe 60mg., posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 7:56:36
I have always been under the impression that psychotherapy is the most useful treatment for schizoaffective disorder ( with medications in addition, as long as they are needed). I have the impression that long-term outcomes can be very good, though it does take time. Are you and your doctors thinking along those lines?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 8:56:36
In reply to Re: Alright i stop the complaining. Prof: maybe 60mg. » Lamdage22, posted by Twinleaf on July 30, 2013, at 8:46:00
> I have always been under the impression that psychotherapy is the most useful treatment for schizoaffective disorder ( with medications in addition, as long as they are needed). I have the impression that long-term outcomes can be very good, though it does take time. Are you and your doctors thinking along those lines?
Well they are along the lines of "3 pillars of treatment" : Medication, psychotherapy and social integration. Right now its more the meds we work on.
I have a hard time finding a good therapist. I want the "real" therapy you know. No fancy techniques.. just good old knowledgeable talk therapy.
It says on wikipedia that for schizo-affective people to do depth-psychology treatment, it needs specially trained personell. Whatever that means and wherever i can find it.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 30, 2013, at 14:36:16
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2013, at 1:53:08
>Are sulpirid and amisulpirid the same or similar in side effects?
Fairly similar, yes. Amisulpride is a newer drug, but that's not to say it's better.
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2013, at 15:42:05
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by ed_uk2010 on July 30, 2013, at 14:36:16
> >Are sulpirid and amisulpirid the same or similar in side effects?
>
> Fairly similar, yes. Amisulpride is a newer drug, but that's not to say it's better.Amisulpride is a much more potent antagonist of the 5-HT7 receptor than is sulpiride. It is believed by some that this makes amisulpride a better antidepressant.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 31, 2013, at 1:42:25
In reply to Re: Seroquel against depression=ripleys believe or not, posted by SLS on July 30, 2013, at 15:42:05
Ok thanks. Well i gained 6 pounds in a week, my mood is down and im lethargic. All thanks to my dr, who for some reason still thinks that this Seroquel dosage is serving me in any way.
If they think it helps it takes a long time for them to figure it doesnt.
No compliance on my end for any more than Seroquel 400. Parnate at 40 or 60 mg. I dont care. As long as i get 40 mg Parnate, thats good enough for me. I dont want to look like a f*ck*ng pig.
This is the end of the thread.
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