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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Hi, this is my first post, though i have read the forum for years..lol.
I have had depression for 10 years from which i wasn't depressed for 5 when i was on Nardil, now i am 28. I have too little dopamine in my brain so SSRI's or TCA's can't fix this only a MAOi - Nardil can. Now i have been of off Nardil for 3 month's because the med is not available in my country and i can't obtain it from UK anymore.
For the last months i have been in what i call the "zone-0" where i have no emotions, no motivation, no social life, just this extremely sh*t*y feeling of nothingness. I have tried sport, work, going out with friend's, therapy, nothing helps. It is the constant line of feeling absolutely no emotion whatsoever, only painful empty existence.
I can feel how there is some kind of malfunction in this organism i exist in.. yet i did't create it, so, how should i know how to fix it? lol
Without Nardil everything is too hard for me and i stay at home 98% of the time, so, basically, i'm dead, or.. actually worse, i'm in pain.
As far as i know, Nardil is the only med that gives me life. Without it, it's like being locked up in 1 square meter jail. I have tried every other AD known to human race with 0 results, all the SSRI's, TCA's, even antipsychotic(shame on me). But...when on Nardil ..I'm the top dog patrolling the beach:) ..feeling the system booted up again
So, as far as i can see from my square meter, my options are basically 0.
What should i do? Should i move to another country where Nardil is available or i should i use all my savings to go to foreign country and try to obtain loads of Nardil and then came back home? I wouldn't know how the above would even be possible me feeling so anxious and depressed all the time.
Sorry me being so negative! But my mind just can't grasp the concept that, there exists a situation from where there is no way out.... :S
Please help! My main question is that how would i get my dopamine levels up again, any other substances??
Also, has anyone had any experience with the new, upcoming anti-depressant class, Ketamine based AD's- "NMDA receptor antagonists". Have anyone tried Ketamine itself, have you got relief from it?
Greetings to you ACE-the Nardil veteran! Also, best wishes Philippa for your supporting posts.
Let's fight it on!
topdog
Posted by SLS on March 7, 2013, at 8:51:42
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
How did you discover that your dopamine levels were too low?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2013, at 9:52:58
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Ace is this seriously you? You say it is but weren't you in Australia? Babblemail me? Phillipa
Posted by tensor on March 7, 2013, at 10:08:09
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
> Hi, this is my first post, though i have read the forum for years..lol.
>
> I have had depression for 10 years from which i wasn't depressed for 5 when i was on Nardil, now i am 28. I have too little dopamine in my brain so SSRI's or TCA's can't fix this only a MAOi - Nardil can. Now i have been of off Nardil for 3 month's because the med is not available in my country and i can't obtain it from UK anymore.
>
> For the last months i have been in what i call the "zone-0" where i have no emotions, no motivation, no social life, just this extremely sh*t*y feeling of nothingness. I have tried sport, work, going out with friend's, therapy, nothing helps. It is the constant line of feeling absolutely no emotion whatsoever, only painful empty existence.
>
> I can feel how there is some kind of malfunction in this organism i exist in.. yet i did't create it, so, how should i know how to fix it? lol
>
> Without Nardil everything is too hard for me and i stay at home 98% of the time, so, basically, i'm dead, or.. actually worse, i'm in pain.
>
> As far as i know, Nardil is the only med that gives me life. Without it, it's like being locked up in 1 square meter jail. I have tried every other AD known to human race with 0 results, all the SSRI's, TCA's, even antipsychotic(shame on me). But...when on Nardil ..I'm the top dog patrolling the beach:) ..feeling the system booted up again
>
> So, as far as i can see from my square meter, my options are basically 0.
>
> What should i do? Should i move to another country where Nardil is available or i should i use all my savings to go to foreign country and try to obtain loads of Nardil and then came back home? I wouldn't know how the above would even be possible me feeling so anxious and depressed all the time.
>
> Sorry me being so negative! But my mind just can't grasp the concept that, there exists a situation from where there is no way out.... :S
>
>
> Please help! My main question is that how would i get my dopamine levels up again, any other substances??
> Also, has anyone had any experience with the new, upcoming anti-depressant class, Ketamine based AD's- "NMDA receptor antagonists". Have anyone tried Ketamine itself, have you got relief from it?
>
>
> Greetings to you ACE-the Nardil veteran! Also, best wishes Philippa for your supporting posts.
>
>
> Let's fight it on!
> topdogWhy not import Nardil?
/tensor
Posted by gpznos on March 7, 2013, at 13:01:12
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help! » topdog, posted by tensor on March 7, 2013, at 10:08:09
I am living in Denmark and the right pdoc will be able to import it - but it will be troublesome to get it, but still very possible.
It also seems possible that you can order it directly on the net from certain countries, however I am not 100% sure about this...
Posted by schleprock on March 7, 2013, at 14:04:55
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Posted by bleauberry on March 7, 2013, at 14:29:41
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Wow that is bad news. Nardil has been your champ for a long time.
I found myself thinking along the same lines as you. For example, try to find out how to get some mail ordered to you safely from somewhere else. Or arrange a trip somewhere to get it and then bring it back home with you. I dunno, that is going to take some brainstorming. And it seems so much harder when things are weighted down with the anxiety and depression, even small things get hard, not to mention a big challenge like this. So I can sure relate.
I've tried several times doing deep searches on the web to find a no prescription overseas mailorder source of maois. I did find one for parnate, and that was how I got it prior to getting my doctor to prescribe it. But I could never find nardil. That is a tough one.
Bottom line. Your life depends on it. You might have to go to extremes, the same anyone would in a life-or-death situation. The only difference here is that usually a life-or-death situation is staring at us in the face and is going to happen rapidly, but in your case it is a slow grind, but equally as devastating in the end....the lost productivity of your years, earlier aging from being so down, suicide risk at some point, Ya know?
In terms of substituting something for dopamine, I dunno, nardil isn't that simple, there is probably something unique about it, it isn't just a dopamine thing, but I hear you...dopamine is a major player. Along those lines I'm thinking stuff like Ritalin, adderall, tyrosine, dlpa....but since you are accustomed to the GABA component of nardil, you would need to balance out that side as well. And while one or some of these could be helpful, I doubt any will replace nardil. Rhodiola should be in there no matter what else.
I've followed a few ketamine users and their journeys went nowhere. Same with nmda antagonists, including myself. I think maybe if one were to try to duplicate nardil, it would have to somehow put gobs and gobs of serotonin, gaba, norepinephrine, and dopamine, all of them, in high concentration, available to the synapses.
That could be attempted with high doses of the supplements that provide the precursors for those, but whether the desired result would happen or not we don't know. I'm thinking a combo of 5htp and/or tryptophan, dlpa and/or tyrosine, maybe all of them, gaba and glycine, and high doses of the B's and magnesium (to bowel tolerance). Probably higher doses than most people would take, because your system is accustomed to high amounts, and actually needs high amounts to function normally.
Dang, that's a horrible situation! So a country just bans a drug that some people rely on to live. ??? Ouch. I'm going to think more on this, but at the moment all I can think of is to book a flight and a doctor in another country, get what you need, and bring as much as possible home. Maybe see if there are any nardil forums or blogs? There might be someone who can send you some.
There is the option of leaving the country completely, but that is huge, and nardil isn't that easy to get no matter where. It's not like asking for zoloft.
I wonder, how do we know after all these years, that some other combo might not help now? I'm sure they did not previously and that is probably how you ended up on nardil. That was a long time ago. Maybe things are different now? It would take several meds to cover all the neuros....probably something like a savella for ne/5ht, or zoloft+nortrip for ne/5t, maybve desipr instead of nortrip for stronger indirect da, ritalin or adderall for da, and an anxiety med for gaba. That would suck, wouldn't it, all that instead of just one nardil pill? Idiots. Why do they do that to you?
Maybe, I don't know how the government works, you could contact someone high up to get some assistance or ideas or a special waver or something?
If I were in your shoes, impossible, but trying to imagine, I think I would go for the precursor supplements backed up with rhodiola rosea, simply because there is chance, and they are cheap over the counter easy to get, something I could do right now today with no waiting. In USA anyway. Not sure about where you live. The entire list would cost less than $50.
Posted by europerep on March 7, 2013, at 15:44:57
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
What country are you from?
Posted by gpznos on March 7, 2013, at 17:01:38
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Could you get your doctor to write a prescription and use something like this:
https://www.medstoreinternational.com/buy-Nardil.php
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2013, at 20:20:12
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
How bout a babblemail? Right now know someone who is doing extremly well on Ketamine IM. First to post of doing the treatment this way. I wondered where you disappeared to!!!! Phillipa
Posted by LostBoyinNC43 on March 7, 2013, at 20:35:57
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
You ever seen a sleep medicine specialist? Someone accredited as a sleep medicine specialist? If not, I strongly recommend you get a sleep study done if you have "treatment resistant" depression. I had "treatment resistant" depression for ten years, tried everything psychopharmacology, all was crap basically. Meds just kept me alive was all. Adding in CPAP therapy to my sleep apnea diagnosis brought me out of the "treatment resistant" mood disorder category to a human being again. I swear by CPAP. Its consistent, too. None of this pooping out stuff.
Eric
Posted by topdog on March 8, 2013, at 6:28:42
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help! » topdog, posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2013, at 9:52:58
> Ace is this seriously you? You say it is but weren't you in Australia? Babblemail me? Phillipa
Hi Philippa!
Sorry if i wrote the end of my post misleadingly, actually i'm not the user "ACE", i just wanted to send greetings to him, as i have read many of his post's. I now overlooked my letter ending and it sure can be interpreted like i was user ACE, ouch :/, sry..
I'm a new user, posting first time.As for now, i booked a visit to local hospital where they take some blood samples for my thyroid and also analyzing possibility for Parkinson disease, for witch i also have some symptoms. Parkinson disease is caused from low levels of dopamine, so if that is the cause i can get dopamine meds for that, witch should fix me up. Anyways.. if not, i sure will pull myself together no matter what and import my Nardil from a foreign country.
Thank You all very much for your support and for good advice for alternative ways to get my neuro-transmission working again!
Good luck!
topdog
Posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 6:55:14
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 8, 2013, at 6:28:42
I am still curious as to how you came to the conclusion that your dopamine levels are too low. They might be, but I would be interested to know what evidence you have of this.
Just because areas rich in dopamine neurons are hypoactive does not mean that the true source of the pathology is not locate further upstream. It's like blaming the engine for running out of fuel.
- Scott
Posted by tensor on March 8, 2013, at 7:17:40
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 8, 2013, at 6:28:42
>Parkinson disease is caused from low levels of dopamine
No, it's not, the cause is unknown. Low dopamine is a result of the disease due to death of dopamine-releasing cells.
so if that is the cause i can get dopamine meds for that, witch should fix me up. Anyways.. if not, i sure will pull myself together no matter what and import my Nardil from a foreign country.
Importing shouldn't be a problem. Good luck.
/tensor
Posted by topdog on March 8, 2013, at 7:21:44
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help! » topdog, posted by SLS on March 8, 2013, at 6:55:14
> I am still curious as to how you came to the conclusion that your dopamine levels are too low. They might be, but I would be interested to know what evidence you have of this.
>
> Just because areas rich in dopamine neurons are hypoactive does not mean that the true source of the pathology is not locate further upstream. It's like blaming the engine for running out of fuel.
>
>
> - ScottActually i have no absolute proof, i interpreted it based on my symptoms and medication response. Rising my dopamine give me energy i very lack of, it also gives back my self-confidence, takes away the fear and the anxiety, i just feel normal when on dopaminergic drug, even the illegal ones won't get me high, just feeling OK.
I'm also thinking of a cause why is the dopamine and also some serotonin so low. Maybe the answer dose not lie in boosting up the thous feel good chemicals, but instead decreasing the stress-related neurotransmitters-noradrenalin and adrenalin, so that the 5-HT and DA would be able to normalize there levels by themselves. Any thought?
The very best!
topdog
Posted by brynb on March 10, 2013, at 7:19:38
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Hi Topdog,
I started doing IM injections of Ketamine about 5-6 weeks ago and it pulled me out of a 2 month major depressive episode. It's been very helpful for depression (I started out at twice a week, now I go once a week). It works on glutamate, as someone mentioned.
My Dx is sort of unclear; I'm either MDD or soft bipolar or bipolar 2. I say this as my depression comes with a lot of irritability and anxiety. While Ketamine has been great (in conjunction with an AD) for my depression, it's not good for my irritability. Meaning, I'll feel irritable from the time I leave a treatment for days after. But, I'll stress it again--K treatments pulled me out of one of my worst depressive states.
Good luck and hope you feel better.
-b
Posted by topdog on March 11, 2013, at 8:49:51
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help! » topdog, posted by brynb on March 10, 2013, at 7:19:38
> Hi Topdog,
>
> I started doing IM injections of Ketamine about 5-6 weeks ago and it pulled me out of a 2 month major depressive episode. It's been very helpful for depression (I started out at twice a week, now I go once a week). It works on glutamate, as someone mentioned.
>
> My Dx is sort of unclear; I'm either MDD or soft bipolar or bipolar 2. I say this as my depression comes with a lot of irritability and anxiety. While Ketamine has been great (in conjunction with an AD) for my depression, it's not good for my irritability. Meaning, I'll feel irritable from the time I leave a treatment for days after. But, I'll stress it again--K treatments pulled me out of one of my worst depressive states.
>
> Good luck and hope you feel better.
>
> -bHi Brynb!
You are lucky that in your location Ketamine treatments are available. Where are you from if i may ask? US? I wish i could get my hands on some medical grade K! I live in Europe.. here, pdoc's won't prescribe med's for depression wich are not approved for this condition.
Posted by brynb on March 11, 2013, at 9:13:08
In reply to Re: Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 11, 2013, at 8:49:51
TD-
I live in Manhattan. As far as I know, my pdoc is the only one here who does it, and he and is staff are all from Russia.
I can't imagine taking it uncontrolled. Potentially too "Space Odyssey" like, lol.
Do they offer trials in Europe?
Hope you're well.
-b
Posted by PrettyLady on March 19, 2013, at 19:17:42
In reply to Treatment-Resistant Depression, please help!, posted by topdog on March 7, 2013, at 8:08:50
Have you tried Lamictal? That stops depression and works differently than SSRI's. Worked for me same day, low dose. It was very activating for me, tho, but for depression it was a winner. Good luck, keep us posted.
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