![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 9:56:36
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by 10derheart on December 22, 2012, at 1:27:53
The Comment "you might hire an editor" has caused me pain and set me back three steps from the courage it took to open myself up to seek help from other people who I thought could help or offer suggestions. Thank you to all the people who offered help and suggestions. To the person who suggested I "might hire an editor", I can only assume you are in a much darker place than I, that you should make such a hurtful comment to someone on this forum. Sorry now I posted, I KNOW I am an accomplished author. I KNOW I suffer from probably the same thing that did in Virgina Woolf, and each day I empty my pockets of stones.
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2012, at 10:17:37
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 9:56:36
Please don't go away...
- Scott> The Comment "you might hire an editor" has caused me pain and set me back three steps from the courage it took to open myself up to seek help from other people who I thought could help or offer suggestions. Thank you to all the people who offered help and suggestions. To the person who suggested I "might hire an editor", I can only assume you are in a much darker place than I, that you should make such a hurtful comment to someone on this forum. Sorry now I posted, I KNOW I am an accomplished author. I KNOW I suffer from probably the same thing that did in Virgina Woolf, and each day I empty my pockets of stones.
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 10:19:57
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 9:56:36
Late to the thread but seriously a proper welcome to this site is in order. So welcome and at times read between the lines. Phillipa
Posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 18:08:06
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read. » alabamaauthor, posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 10:19:57
INSIDE YOUR FIRST BREAKDOWN
Alabama Jane Brown
(First published on webdelsol)
When they ask you about this moment, it is only because you have forgotten
What it felt like to be living outside the song of the nightingale.
There will be darkness and fear.In this room there is light. Unknown to you. Deprived to you. Only you.
The light has escaped the wooden shutters, which have become frail and brittle over the years.
The letting in of light and the closing out of light.
The obsessions of many and the bane existence of the phobic. Do not worry.
The light can be your friend. You will learn this with time.
The light will become your only friend as you try and determine the depth of this Situation.
You can rely on the innocent light which has escaped the shutters.
Even they can not take that hope away from you.There is no sense and order in this.
There never is and never has been, since the beginning of time.
That if anything will be your consolation. You are not the first.
And you will not be the last.
The darkness is the primary symptom they speak of.
You will come to question they.They will become your conscious.
There have been many ones before you.
Fat ones, famous ones, fastidious ones.
They all have one thing in common.
They never meant to be here, just as you.
This is not page 300 of the biography on Virginia Woolf.
This is your life, dear one.
This is your new life.I have been there inside this house with closed shutters focusing on that one
Ray of sunshine that escaped the wooden shutters and rested on the dust of a forgotten corner
Always
Emptying my pockets of stones.
Emptying my pockets of stones.
Posted by johnLA on December 22, 2012, at 19:10:19
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by schleprock on December 21, 2012, at 21:09:16
i rarely post anymore.
but, your post on this thread i found highly hurtful and rude. and, very stupid to boot.
i can't help myself...
what on earth were you thinking when you posted what you did to a first time poster who is in severe pain?
do the right thing...
Posted by johnLA on December 22, 2012, at 19:17:47
In reply to Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 21, 2012, at 19:57:49
dear alabama-
please stick around. there are some good people here who will be able to offer some good advice.
one thing i can tell you; replacing my hip was one of the best things i did for my arthritic pain. as for your emotional pain, again, i hope you come back and get some advice/help here.
john
Posted by schleprock on December 22, 2012, at 20:16:25
In reply to Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 21, 2012, at 19:57:49
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Wall_of_Text
Hi, my name is schleprock, and I'm an unemployed loser, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future due to an unfortunate chain of events that began when a so-called psychiatrist decided on a whim that I was bi-polar and became determined to disrupt what was until then very successful antidepressant regimen. At least until I kill myself. But in the indeterminate amount of time I have left, I'm not sure if it can be justified spent looking at overwhelming amounts of text with no clear and concise separation of thoughts arranged in a structure that would provide a comfortable and courteous degree of pacing for the reader. There is a limit to how much disorganization I can tolerate, due to the delirium I currently suffer as the result of mind-altering drugs. As one who has had recent experience with melancholia, I would have been interested in reading the above post, which makes the aforementioned circumstances all the worse. I already have enough trouble with Lou Pilder's posts, which I must admit I have no choice but to briefly skim.
Due to the disproportionate amount of anger and hostility directed against me by all in this thread, and the case that I have a very Jewish-sounding name, I must echo Lou Pilder's sentiments that flagrant anti-Semitism is permitted to run loose across this network.
I have no doubt that most of you are already plotting against me, and plan to make every thread consist of nothing but posts of walls of text in an effort to drive me off of the forum for good. I am sorry that Dr. Hsuing has let it come to this.
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 21:04:46
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by schleprock on December 22, 2012, at 20:16:25
I feel badly for both of you. I think others were only asking for a clarification of what you meant. To the person reading for first time it did sound harsh. But now you have posted what I feel is a post that explains why you posted what you did. I understand. But also there is no anti-semetism here. I hope you are angry and not being sarcastic. As I find you a lovely poster. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2012, at 21:34:42
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by schleprock on December 22, 2012, at 20:16:25
This is clever and funny, but I think a simple apology would have been more productive.
Don't worry about the loser thing. It happens to the best of us.
- Scott
> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Wall_of_Text
>
> Hi, my name is schleprock, and I'm an unemployed loser, and will probably remain so for the foreseeable future due to an unfortunate chain of events that began when a so-called psychiatrist decided on a whim that I was bi-polar and became determined to disrupt what was until then very successful antidepressant regimen. At least until I kill myself. But in the indeterminate amount of time I have left, I'm not sure if it can be justified spent looking at overwhelming amounts of text with no clear and concise separation of thoughts arranged in a structure that would provide a comfortable and courteous degree of pacing for the reader. There is a limit to how much disorganization I can tolerate, due to the delirium I currently suffer as the result of mind-altering drugs. As one who has had recent experience with melancholia, I would have been interested in reading the above post, which makes the aforementioned circumstances all the worse. I already have enough trouble with Lou Pilder's posts, which I must admit I have no choice but to briefly skim.
>
> Due to the disproportionate amount of anger and hostility directed against me by all in this thread, and the case that I have a very Jewish-sounding name, I must echo Lou Pilder's sentiments that flagrant anti-Semitism is permitted to run loose across this network.
>
> I have no doubt that most of you are already plotting against me, and plan to make every thread consist of nothing but posts of walls of text in an effort to drive me off of the forum for good. I am sorry that Dr. Hsuing has let it come to this.
Posted by Emme_V2 on December 22, 2012, at 21:49:28
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by schleprock on December 21, 2012, at 21:09:16
> You might want to hire an editor.
Since Alabamaauhor makes his/her living as a writer, she or he may have been using the stream of consciousness narrative mode, a valid literary device used by the likes of James Joyce. This may have been the the most doable or natural way for her or him to express distress at that time.
That said, some of us here (like me) have some brain fog sometimes or get fatigued quickly, so long unbroken posts can be extremely difficult to concentrate on. If there are some paragraph breaks and more punctuation, it's easier for me to see what's going on and see if there's anything I can help with. (And every now and then there is...:)
Welcome Alabamaauthor, and I hope you find treatment that works for you.
Posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 22:23:30
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read. » schleprock, posted by Emme_V2 on December 22, 2012, at 21:49:28
Dear all, I only speak in truth to my immediate feelings and write as I think in rambled nonsense and sometimes very, very, very dyslexic scribe, as I am dyslexic with all my my other problems in my brain. I offer one thing...I truly believe we are all of the same origin and some of us are over evolved and some of us are hyper-sensitive due to our issues with our brains being off kilter, "the normal" evolution. I simply seek to help myself, and others truly understand why we are so "sad", ",misunderstood", "melancholic" and "depressed". I love all mankind, and I am always open to a dialogue that will enhance the love of man between others in our situation. I read recently, (and that is why I started this post) that all people with a mental illness need to connect with a supportive group, and because everyone I know thinks I am well on my way to "hell" because I have a mental illness, I sought out this group to help me. I am always here for anyone, no matter how trivial the issue, no matter how you feel, I am here to offer at least advice of some king of help, never will I offer judgement, pain or any sort of meanness.
Posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 23:13:50
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 22, 2012, at 22:23:30
Thank you you are sweet:)))) Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 23, 2012, at 16:52:39
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read. » alabamaauthor, posted by Phillipa on December 22, 2012, at 23:13:50
Alabamaauthor - I cant encourage you enough to try Parnate (tranylcypromine) both by it self and in combination with nortriptyline if you havent yet done so.
There are several other "end of the road" options you could try as well, so please done lose hope, Remeron + high dose Effexor for example.
Also, keep looking for a therapist who is right for you, because you obviously have a lot of stuff to work through.
Posted by brynb on December 23, 2012, at 16:59:54
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by johnLA on December 22, 2012, at 19:17:47
Posted by alabamaauthor on December 26, 2012, at 16:28:23
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 23, 2012, at 16:52:39
Thanks all, hope we all made it through Christmas.
I have tried Pamelor three times and it seems to be the best for me, my therapist is out of town, and being very desparate, I pulled it out and have been taking 20 mg at bedtime with Ambien, no Seroquel, and 1 mg of Xanax. I believe it has immediate action, as my anxiety is way down, I can't remember why I stopped it. I am certain as the days go by I will be reminded by the side effects, Oh! I remember, I was told it had cardio effects??? Does it suppress anxiety? Does it cause weight gain too?
I want to find a new therapist asap. After 11 years you would think I would be on a better path.
Thanks all for the time you took to post.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 27, 2012, at 21:28:56
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 26, 2012, at 16:28:23
Pamalor releives depresssion and anxiety - effective dose between 50 and 150mg per day (usualy 75-100mg)
It can cuase some weight gain, but it isnt as bad as some of the tricyclics, and in your current condition, I think a few pounds weight gain would be a small price to pay for releif
You can get extra antidepressant effect by combining Pamelor with an SSRI (Zoloft, Lexapro or Celexa, NOT Paxil or Prozac)
20mg is a subtheraputic dose (like taking half an aspirin for a headache), i would enciurage you to push it to 75mg asap, then geta blood test after 2 weeks to see wether you need to go higher, go lower, or stay at that point.
Posted by hyperfocus on December 30, 2012, at 13:49:25
In reply to Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 21, 2012, at 19:57:49
Complex PTSD has many ramifications; treatment-resistant depression is just one of them. Dissociation -- a fragmenting of your consciousness -- is the hallmark of Complex PTSD and while its surface symptoms satisfy every criteria for major depression and extreme anxiety and obssessive thinking and paranoia and several other psychiatric conditions, it's actually a completely separate disorder that requires unique targeted treatment. Somatization of psychic distress is universal and can manifest as chronic fatigue or any number of puzzling treatment-resistant physical conditions. Meds can play a large role but treating CPTSD, if that is what you have, primarily requires you to re-establish in your mind a sense of safety, stability, control, and relearn many things about your self that abuse and trauma have erased. The psychological consequences of abuse and trauma create in the victim a sense of helplessness and unworthiness that can pervade a person's life, from your inability to control your own thoughts and memories, to regulate your own emotions, maintain executive control of your attention, focus, physical and emotional energy, to handle disappointments and challenges, manage conflict maintain relationships, to set goals. It also unfortunately makes you more vulnerable to revictimization which can form a self-fulfilling cycle of abuse and dysfunction. Like I said all these things might be attributed to major depression and anxiety et.al but obviously it goes much deeper that.
Posted by SLS on December 30, 2012, at 14:31:13
In reply to Re: CPTSD » alabamaauthor, posted by hyperfocus on December 30, 2012, at 13:49:25
Brilliant explanation. Thanks.
Let me know what you think of this:
http://www.positivehumandevelopment.com/developmental-ptsd.html
How does this compare to C-PTSD?
http://www.traumacenter.org/products/pdf_files/JTS_Oct_09_Cloitre_et_al.pdf
I am looking at the possibility that prazosin would be an effective treatment for these conditions.
- Scott
> Complex PTSD has many ramifications; treatment-resistant depression is just one of them. Dissociation -- a fragmenting of your consciousness -- is the hallmark of Complex PTSD and while its surface symptoms satisfy every criteria for major depression and extreme anxiety and obssessive thinking and paranoia and several other psychiatric conditions, it's actually a completely separate disorder that requires unique targeted treatment. Somatization of psychic distress is universal and can manifest as chronic fatigue or any number of puzzling treatment-resistant physical conditions. Meds can play a large role but treating CPTSD, if that is what you have, primarily requires you to re-establish in your mind a sense of safety, stability, control, and relearn many things about your self that abuse and trauma have erased. The psychological consequences of abuse and trauma create in the victim a sense of helplessness and unworthiness that can pervade a person's life, from your inability to control your own thoughts and memories, to regulate your own emotions, maintain executive control of your attention, focus, physical and emotional energy, to handle disappointments and challenges, manage conflict maintain relationships, to set goals. It also unfortunately makes you more vulnerable to revictimization which can form a self-fulfilling cycle of abuse and dysfunction. Like I said all these things might be attributed to major depression and anxiety et.al but obviously it goes much deeper that.
Posted by hyperfocus on December 31, 2012, at 18:12:52
In reply to Re: CPTSD » hyperfocus, posted by SLS on December 30, 2012, at 14:31:13
> Brilliant explanation. Thanks.
>
> Let me know what you think of this:
>
> http://www.positivehumandevelopment.com/developmental-ptsd.html
>
> How does this compare to C-PTSD?
>
> http://www.traumacenter.org/products/pdf_files/JTS_Oct_09_Cloitre_et_al.pdfThanks for the articles. I was unaware of the differences between what's called Developmental PTSD and Complex PTSD. Although they are very similar I suppose their development and root causes warrants a distinction. Developmental PTSD can be an extraordinarily powerful diagnostic tool for abused and disadvantaged children to mend their lives.
>
> I am looking at the possibility that prazosin would be an effective treatment for these conditions.
>
>
Honestly I've become skeptical of the ability of meds to treat conditions like C-PTSD rooted in psychological trauma. Our emotions, thoughts, behaviors, memories, and perceptions are locked in very complex relationships.....I think that changing just one thing isn't sufficient to get a mind healthy. Also it is critical for people recovering from trauma to re-establish in themselves the belief that their will, however you wish to define this, controls these emotions and thoughts and behaviours et.al . Meds like prazosin and atenolol can reduce the overexcitability of adrenoreceptors in the nervous system and reduce anxiety and the occurrence of intrusive memories and flashbacks and nightmares. These things can help somebody tremendously with dissociation and depression and the sense of helplessness CPTSD and all MI sufferers feel, and give them back some semblance of control over their inner experience. But to me switching the locus of control of inner experience to medications, with all the expectations of recovery, isn't a long-term viable or safe strategy.To me knowledge and understanding are powerful tools, just as powerful or even moreso than meds. I think a lot of people with MI simply are unaware of what they are suffering from, and the piecemeal diagnostic strategy psychiatrists have employed so far doesn't help at all. This is why I do not understand the decisions to remove conditions like Asperger's and Complex PTSD from the DSM. I find the ability for a patient to see what are a vast and often confusing array of conditions as having a single root cause to be incredibly useful, independent of whether one can define a 'cure' for these things. For many people just having knowledge of what actually is wrong with them is like 50% of the battle.
Just a personal example: today I did some work in our front-yard. Usually I can't do anything like this because it seems I get fatigued and depressed very easily and a huge amount of poison just seems to bubble up from the depths of my mind and I just have to stop after like five minutes. Like a lot of people on PB I find physically demanding activities like yardwork or routine activities like housework to be beyond me most of the time. But as I started working, just the knowledge that the initial physical fatigue I felt in my muscles was actually part of my Asperger's and that I was just different from other people and not lazy or weak gave me the will to carry on. Just the knowledge that the bad things people would say about me as a kid whenever I attempted sustained physical effort were no way my fault or under my control made me able to put them aside and keep working. When I started getting the familiar feelings of depression and worthlessness and all the accusing voices and memories of being called stupid and lazy and careless et.al, just the knowledge these intrusive thoughts and feelings actually had a psychological cause and were just how my brain worked presently was enough for me to continue with what I was doing. Somehow just the ability to recognize and understand the emotional distress as just a bunch of thoughts and memories and feelings and perceptions that had nothing to do with my actual abilities, and had nothing to do with the present moment; that were completely separate from what my present day reality was, allowed me to carry on much longer than I thought possible. Afterwards, the feeling that I had that for the first time in a long time our house would be semi-presentable for the New Year was quite encouraging and liberating. I actually look forward to what I can accomplish tomorrow. I honestly believe that this is the kind of progress I can make independent of whatever meds I am on.
Part of the principles of mindfulness and I suppose Buddhism is that our pain and suffering and desires are not who we are in the least. For me personally, this knowledge and knowledge of my condition and tools and exercises and strategies I've learned to re-establish a sense of control over my inner experience have been extraordinarily powerful weapons that have gone far beyond what I hoped for from medication. I think that this sense of control is what CPTSD victims may crave the most and meds are not sufficient to establish this permanently. All of us who had a response to medication at some point dreaded the day poop-out would occur. To me it is much better to try to find a sense of control by using adversity and illness and all the things that have broken us down as a way to rebuild ourselves into people who are more aware of who they really are and what their real place in life is -- people who can become better and stronger and smarter than we were before.
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2012, at 22:29:01
In reply to Re: CPTSD, posted by hyperfocus on December 31, 2012, at 18:12:52
> > I am looking at the possibility that prazosin would be an effective treatment for these conditions.
> Honestly I've become skeptical of the ability of meds to treat conditions like C-PTSD rooted in psychological trauma.
Anything that becomes a persistent change in psychological dynamics is necessarily a manifestation of changes made in brain structure and function. This is the beauty and ugliness of neuroplasticity. Synaptic plasticity allows for environmental adaptability through physiological modification of the connectivity between neurons and neuronal circuits. This is learning. However, the stress produced by chronic stress, particularly chronic traumas, can alter these dynamics in ways that are physiological destructive. Perhaps the most accessible example of this is the effects of stress to produce neurotoxicity via excessive calcium influx into the terminals of glutamatergic neurons. There are changes in the levels of nerve growth and maintenance modulators like BDNF, and of second messenger signaling substances like GSK-3, mTOR and CREB. Quite simply, chronic stress causes things to go out of whack. If traumas occur during periods of accelerated development - like childhood - these altered dynamics can spread and become persistent. PTSD.
> Our emotions, thoughts, behaviors, memories, and perceptions are locked in very complex relationships
These complex psychological relationships are facilitated by complex relationships in brain function, right?
> .....I think that changing just one thing isn't sufficient to get a mind healthy.
Perhaps. But changing one thing can get a mind unhealthy in a hurry.
Dominoes. Think of what would happen if the path of upright dominoes were branching and looping as are neural circuits of the brain or intracellular second messenger cascades. Knock over one, and...
If you go ahead and pick up and stabilize that first domino, it will still take some time to pick up and arrange the rest (psychotherapeutics).
I don't know. The brain and mind are inextricable. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
The effects of prazosin are not limited to anxiety. Anxiety is NOT a feature of my depression. Yet, prazosin produces a very clean and robust antidepressant effect on me. The effect is global: anergia, anhedonia, hypersomnolence, amotivation, loss of interest, negative thinking, etc. These things resolved practically overnight with prazosin. The neurobiology of NE receptors is not so straight forward. However, now that my brain is functioning more nominally, I can process psychological issues much better. I don't think we differ too much in our thoughts regarding this. If the biological milieu within which the psyche exists is all screwed up, so, too, will one's thoughts and feelings. However, if one's psychological milieu is all screwed up, so, too, can be the brain functions that are vulnerable to damage or dysregulation by stress.
I agree with the rest of what you say.
- Scott
Posted by alchemy on January 3, 2013, at 20:44:17
In reply to Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alabamaauthor on December 21, 2012, at 19:57:49
Hi alabamaauthor. I am so sorry for your pain, and I appreciate you sharing it. You have definitely gone through a lot, seriously horrible. It made me realize how much more other people have had to deal with, and also made me not feel so alone.
Give yourself credit for how much you have had to deal with. Those experiences for a child of course are traumatic and leave an imprint of some sort. Combine "external" stressors and experience with a pre-disposed disposition to mood issues sucks! For example, there are alleles are corresponding genes on chromosomes. If someone has 2 long ones (don't remember which ones), they are likely to be the most resistant to stressors (those happy-juice people). If someone has 1 long and 1 short, they are less resistant to stress. I don't even want to think about having 2 short ones! With as much stress that you have had to deal with, it probably doesn't matter. It also sounds like you have seen this tendency in other family members.
All of our opinions vary on this board, as do doctors. I lean more to the physical side. Like you, I have not found therapy to be real helpful although I think it should be involved. Hell, I read the book Feeling Good when I was a youngster. But there is some thought that EMDR can be helpful for PTSD if you haven't tried that.
If you haven't tried MAOI's, it might be time. It's not an allergy thing, it's a potential hypertensive thing. And some people actually find that they are able to still eat some of the things that they shouldn't have. I just tried parnate, and unfortunately it didn't help me. But I was amazed at how many people who had experienced even decades of depression found amazing results.
I also seem to be allergic/sensitive to things I eat. My body also over-reacts to sugar even though I am not diabetic. I am starting to try taking aspirin at night to see if it might help in the inflammation department. Inflammation & the immune system can also be involved of course with depression.
(side-note, if you set your name up to accept personal messages, it is always good to have someone to talk to)
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2013, at 21:12:03
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read., posted by alchemy on January 3, 2013, at 20:44:17
So off the parnate. You feel aspirin is better for inflammation than motrin as I've been trying this sometimes? It's good to see you posting. You also are very well versed in scientific academia. Phillipa
Posted by alabamaauthor on January 3, 2013, at 23:56:47
In reply to Re: Melancholia is my existence, my life. Please read. » alchemy, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2013, at 21:12:03
Thanks all, I will post tomorrow when I have some time. Really thanks so much. EMDR has been the best help for me. The Pamelor just went down the toilet, I had a horrible week on it, had another episode, seeing my Dr. next week. Thanks for kindness. Will discuss Parnate, anyone done Roboxetine, spelling might be wrong? Anyone tried Opiates for depression? Thanks.
ajb
Posted by hyperfocus on January 4, 2013, at 21:49:34
In reply to Re: CPTSD » hyperfocus, posted by SLS on December 31, 2012, at 22:29:01
> Anything that becomes a persistent change in psychological dynamics is necessarily a manifestation of changes made in brain structure and function. This is the beauty and ugliness of neuroplasticity. Synaptic plasticity allows for environmental adaptability through physiological modification of the connectivity between neurons and neuronal circuits. This is learning. However, the stress produced by chronic stress, particularly chronic traumas, can alter these dynamics in ways that are physiological destructive. Perhaps the most accessible example of this is the effects of stress to produce neurotoxicity via excessive calcium influx into the terminals of glutamatergic neurons. There are changes in the levels of nerve growth and maintenance modulators like BDNF, and of second messenger signaling substances like GSK-3, mTOR and CREB. Quite simply, chronic stress causes things to go out of whack. If traumas occur during periods of accelerated development - like childhood - these altered dynamics can spread and become persistent. PTSD.
>
Yes this is true but the brain is the only machine we know of that can observe it's own workings, rules, goals, and modify those workings, rules, goals. Everyday people with abusive childhoods struggle to deal with the effects of chronic stress on their development. Not just altered and dysfunctional emotional responses, but also, as the article on Developmental PTSD described, with ill-formed cognitive models of the world and other people. But I think it is important to stress to abuse survivors that the brain is not like other machines or body organs -- it is self-aware and self-directing leading to the concept of what we call the mind. Of course with some mental illnesses one is completely helpless against damage to brain structure and function. Still I think PTSD survivors and MI patients in general with confusing and treatment-resistant conditions can benefit tremendously from this assertion that one is not totally powerless against damage to brain structure and function.
>
> > Our emotions, thoughts, behaviors, memories, and perceptions are locked in very complex relationships
>
> These complex psychological relationships are facilitated by complex relationships in brain function, right?
>
They are facilitated but part of the concept of mind is that it is more than the sum of these parts. It's possible to build brain function relationships, albeit slowly and piecemeal, using cognitive and behavioral techniques that stress the independence of conscious action from existing brain functions.> > .....I think that changing just one thing isn't sufficient to get a mind healthy.
>
> Perhaps. But changing one thing can get a mind unhealthy in a hurry.
>
Being on the med roller-coaster +15 years I suppose has left me disillusioned with conventional psychiatry. I can't count how many times I became so hopeful that my condition was improving, only to have that hope fade. Like I said, for me personally it's about where I put the locus of control.The truth is right now symptom-wise I am still mostly in the same. Nothing much has changed wrt my symptoms of PTSD, but I am doing more, I am making progress in certain areas of my life, I am relating better to people, I am coping better with past memories. And as I do more of these things the symptoms seem to be becoming less, relevant, I suppose could be the term.
> Dominoes. Think of what would happen if the path of upright dominoes were branching and looping as are neural circuits of the brain or intracellular second messenger cascades. Knock over one, and...
>
> If you go ahead and pick up and stabilize that first domino, it will still take some time to pick up and arrange the rest (psychotherapeutics).
>
> I don't know. The brain and mind are inextricable. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
>
I think given the nature of the mind one can do things out-of-order so to speak. The mind can do more than sculpt many parts of the brain, I guess I'm thinking of deaf people who learn to read lips. You can't replace the physiological stuff that is missing or damaged as yet but you can compensate and learn equivalent ways of communicating that do just as well.> The effects of prazosin are not limited to anxiety. Anxiety is NOT a feature of my depression. Yet, prazosin produces a very clean and robust antidepressant effect on me. The effect is global: anergia, anhedonia, hypersomnolence, amotivation, loss of interest, negative thinking, etc. These things resolved practically overnight with prazosin.
The neurobiology of NE receptors is not so straight forward. However, now that my brain is functioning more nominally, I can process psychological issues much better. I don't think we differ too much in our thoughts regarding this. If the biological milieu within which the psyche exists is all screwed up, so, too, will one's thoughts and feelings. However, if one's psychological milieu is all screwed up, so, too, can be the brain functions that are vulnerable to damage or dysregulation by stress.
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I took atenolol for a while to try the treat the PTSD symptoms and it did help some. I know it's not anxiety treatment when used in PTSD and dysfunctional adrenaline and norepinipherine receptors results in emotional and memory dysfunctions that have nothing to do with anxiety. Have you ever considered amitriptyline? It's supposedly the only antidepressant that is a TrkA and TrkB receptor agonist and a very potent neurotrophic agent. I think amitrip makes my surface symptoms worse sometimes but it's the only AD I'm taking right now, primarily for this neurotrophic effect.
> I agree with the rest of what you say.
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I realize I might be straying into the pull-yourselves-by-your-bootstraps viewpoint that we all detest and it's not my intention to say what may work for me will work for anyone. I suppose it's the reliance on a neurochemical model for treatment that I've changed my views on. It's also a philosophical thing where I have had to alter my views on what I consider being 'treated' and the things that are important and worthwhile in life. I used to consider my illness to be nothing but a curse but I have fully accepted the possibility that it has happened for my benefit, to make me a better person. I think regaining control of one's life is something MI patients crave the most.
Posted by alabamaauthor on January 17, 2013, at 21:50:16
In reply to Re: CPTSD » SLS, posted by hyperfocus on January 4, 2013, at 21:49:34
Prazosin was tried one night only, had excessive palpitations and rapid breathing, like a panic attack, apparently it has cardio side effects in patients who use an existing BP Med, I use Lisonipril 40 mg. for unstable BP. I have gone back to my old stand by, Prozac and raised my Seroquel. I feel I am leveling out. I have really, really learned so much from hyperfocus and I thank you for taking the time to post such informative, well thought out posts. Thank you. I will do some more research on prazosin and discuss with my psychiatrist next week. Maybe it would work to take in the morning and switch Lisonipril to bedtime? Does it have to be taken at night to have an effect on nightmares? Seroquel gives me vivid dreams they just don't seem to be night terrors. The goal for now is to make my mind rest and let me find peace within. And yes, I do need to work on being more positive, and I am working on that. Having CPTSD is such a new research area in my opinion and most Drs. are ignorant to the causes, triggers and prognosis. BPD is almost always a hand in hand companion with CPTD in my opinion, and having life long melancholia and anxiety just makes living an effort, not a happy opportunity, and the stigma sucks.
This is the end of the thread.
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