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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Hi all, sorry i've not been around of late. i've been in pretty bad shape.
i wonder if any of you could shed some light on something for me. many of you may remember a post i made a couple of weeks ago asking for help because i was really, really, really down. everyone was so great in their responses and suggestions. but in the end, a few days after crying for help b/c i felt like dying, i just got better one day, for no apparent reason. there had been no change in my meds (i'm on 30mg/day Nardil and 10mg tid Ritalin plus gabapenting for anxiety and Elavil 50mg hs for sleep). It was great to feel better, but, again for no apparent reason, a few days after getting better i took a nosedive back into the abyss, where i have been living for about a week until a couple of days ago when, once again for no apparent reason, i felt better. Then yesterday afternoon, another fall into the abyss, where i am now living again.
So I go up and down between the worst dysphoria imaginable to feeling simply depressed. And there is absolutely no reason I can think of for this, no changes in my meds, no changes in my life. It almost feels like a switch is being turned on and off in my brain.
I would think that i have become bipolar (i have never been diagnosed as bipolar in the decades i've had depression) but the swings aren't between dysphoria and mania, they are between feeling bad and feeling really, really bad.
And each time I fall into the abyss, I seem to go deeper; I seem to feel worse and worse each time. at this rate i will reach china in about a week.
I should also mention that when I am in the state of really nasty dysphoria, my meds don't seem to work. the ritalin i'm on doesn't even make a dent in my mood.
I've never experienced anything like this before.
So, any ideas anyone??? Any advice?
I am really scared by these incredibly deep dark depressions. I am so afraid that they will eventually get so bad that i will become catatonic or something, or that i will feel so much pain that i will give up and end it all.
Help, please!!! I just can't go on like this.
Posted by Lou PIlder on November 23, 2012, at 10:06:35
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
> Hi all, sorry i've not been around of late. i've been in pretty bad shape.
>
> i wonder if any of you could shed some light on something for me. many of you may remember a post i made a couple of weeks ago asking for help because i was really, really, really down. everyone was so great in their responses and suggestions. but in the end, a few days after crying for help b/c i felt like dying, i just got better one day, for no apparent reason. there had been no change in my meds (i'm on 30mg/day Nardil and 10mg tid Ritalin plus gabapenting for anxiety and Elavil 50mg hs for sleep). It was great to feel better, but, again for no apparent reason, a few days after getting better i took a nosedive back into the abyss, where i have been living for about a week until a couple of days ago when, once again for no apparent reason, i felt better. Then yesterday afternoon, another fall into the abyss, where i am now living again.
>
> So I go up and down between the worst dysphoria imaginable to feeling simply depressed. And there is absolutely no reason I can think of for this, no changes in my meds, no changes in my life. It almost feels like a switch is being turned on and off in my brain.
>
> I would think that i have become bipolar (i have never been diagnosed as bipolar in the decades i've had depression) but the swings aren't between dysphoria and mania, they are between feeling bad and feeling really, really bad.
>
> And each time I fall into the abyss, I seem to go deeper; I seem to feel worse and worse each time. at this rate i will reach china in about a week.
>
> I should also mention that when I am in the state of really nasty dysphoria, my meds don't seem to work. the ritalin i'm on doesn't even make a dent in my mood.
>
> I've never experienced anything like this before.
>
> So, any ideas anyone??? Any advice?
>
> I am really scared by these incredibly deep dark depressions. I am so afraid that they will eventually get so bad that i will become catatonic or something, or that i will feel so much pain that i will give up and end it all.
>
> Help, please!!! I just can't go on like this.Chi_Kat,
YOu wrote,[...Need help desperatly...wondering if any of you could...the worst ..imaginable...fall into the abyss...worse and worse...meds don't..work...any ideas anyone?...that I will end it all...Help,please..can't go on like this...].
Posted by Phil on November 23, 2012, at 11:58:43
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Sounds an awful lot like rapid cycling. Try to keep a mood chart and see if you recognize a pattern. I guess you already have recognized one.
I can't make med recommendations but I will add that I was treated 20 years for depression before a bipolar DX ten years ago.Good luck!!
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2012, at 12:02:10
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Kat yes I have wondered where you were. I tend to agree with Phil. Isn't there a bipolar where the line straight across between highs, normal, lows, just goes lower? No highs inbetween? I don't know what it's called. google time Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2012, at 12:12:28
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Hi Kat.
Sorry to see you doing so poorly.
If lithium or anticonvulsants have not yet been tried, I would discuss employing them with your doctor. Unless you react badly to lithium, I would consider putting together a regime that includes that drug in combination with one of the following drugs:
- Depakote
- Trileptal
- Topamax
- KeppraSorry that I don't have more time to devote to this post, but they limit my Internet usage in Aruba.
Continue to take good care of yourself. You are doing a great job.
Zyprexa is a drug to keep in mind.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2012, at 12:12:52
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » ChicagoKat, posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2012, at 12:02:10
I don't know the NIMH website doesn't seem to fit you. But there is definitely swings and rapid happening. Read and decide. Is or could it worsening of depression? Phillipa
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/bipolar-disorder/complete-index.shtml
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2012, at 12:18:09
In reply to Lou's response-dhabrodwroe » ChicagoKat, posted by Lou PIlder on November 23, 2012, at 10:06:35
> > Help, please!!! I just can't go on like this.
>
> Chi_Kat,
> YOu wrote,[...Need help desperatly...wondering if any of you could...the worst ..imaginable...fall into the abyss...worse and worse...meds don't..work...any ideas anyone?...that I will end it all...Help,please..can't go on like this...].
She wrote what she wrote.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 16:12:05
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Thanks for the advice everyone. I was wondering if maybe I needed a mood stabilizer. Fortunately I see my pdoc on Tues. so I will speak with him about it too.
Just curious....is there a form of bipolar disease, or any other defined disease wherein the patient goes back and forth between moderate depression and really severe depression?
As I've said, I've never been diagnosed with bipolar disorder b/c I have never experienced a manic episode.
Kat
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 23, 2012, at 16:40:59
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
kat,
I think it might be time to check into the hospital as an inpatient, let them tweak your meds and keep you safe for a while
best of luck
Jon
Posted by baseball55 on November 23, 2012, at 19:05:14
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 23, 2012, at 16:40:59
This is exactly what I experienced -- going from depressed to the deepest pits of hell over and over again. Lamictal has helped, especially with suicidal ideation. DBT also helps a lot and has kept me from the abyss even when my mood plummeted.
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2012, at 20:15:46
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by baseball55 on November 23, 2012, at 19:05:14
Kat Jon may be right and that is what was trying to find was some sort of bipolar that went down & normal, and down again. That does sound like a form of bipolar but for the life of me can not recall the name of it? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 24, 2012, at 6:52:52
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Sorry, Kat.
I forgot about Lamictal. It is worth a try. It might ameliorate the severity of depression, but might not completely abolish any rapid cycling that there may be. I am currently impressed with Trileptal as an anti-cycling treatment.
Any female hormonal stuff going on?
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 9:52:13
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 23, 2012, at 16:40:59
> kat,
>
> I think it might be time to check into the hospital as an inpatient, let them tweak your meds and keep you safe for a while
>
> best of luck
>
> JonHi Jon...thanks for your concern. I almost wish that I could go inpt, I am feeling so bad. And I know it's bad if I actually want to go b/c since being inpt before I've always said I'd rather die than go inpt again. But, unfortunately, my new insurance does not cover the hospital where I used to go, and I'm leery of going anywhere else. Since I got really bad a couple of weeks ago, I tried a new outpatient program at a different hospital (my old outpt program that I LOVED again is not covered). The new program was HORRIBLE, I mean, so bad that I felt more depressed when I was there than when I wasn't. The therapist who led the small group session was so bad...the other day I was crying uncontrollably, and she actually said to me 'you made your choice, now deal with it'. And went on to talk to other patients, incredibly about diarrhea and pie. All while I was practically sobbing. I quit the program. So now I am very leery of going to that hospital, or any other new hospital for treatment.
Another problem is that my husband is going out of town on business, and I need to stay home to take care of the kids. My kids are fuzzy and have tails, but tthey really are like children to us.
So my plan is to talk to my pdoc about this problem. I see him on Tues. I'm gonna ask him, since I can't go to the hospital where he works anymore, if he'll just agree to see me more frequently until (if) we get this problem sorted out. I have to pay out of pocket for him now, but this method would be far cheaper than going to my beloved old hospital.
Again, thanks for the concern. and sorry this post got so long. i think i have typing diarrhea.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 9:54:19
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by baseball55 on November 23, 2012, at 19:05:14
> This is exactly what I experienced -- going from depressed to the deepest pits of hell over and over again. Lamictal has helped, especially with suicidal ideation. DBT also helps a lot and has kept me from the abyss even when my mood plummeted.
Oh, thanks so much for posting! It gives me hope that there is someone else who has experienced this and now feels better! Did they ever give you a diagnosis for what was going on? I hope you feel better, and can keep out of that abyss. It is a nightmare there, is it not?
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 9:57:39
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2012, at 20:15:46
> Kat Jon may be right and that is what was trying to find was some sort of bipolar that went down & normal, and down again. That does sound like a form of bipolar but for the life of me can not recall the name of it? Phillipa
Hi Phillipa, thanks for the post :) I really can't go inpt at this time...if you arre curious about the reasons, read my reply to Jono, it is long and I am just too tired to re-type it!
I've been scouring the internet, but can find no reference to a type of bipolar disease that fits my symptoms. Interestingly, however, I read about borderline personality disorder and it sounds a lot like me, except for the anger/aggresiveness issues. I'll ask my pdoc what he thinks on Tues. I hope you are feeling better..you have been in my thoughts
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 10:03:27
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » ChicagoKat, posted by SLS on November 24, 2012, at 6:52:52
> Sorry, Kat.
>
> I forgot about Lamictal. It is worth a try. It might ameliorate the severity of depression, but might not completely abolish any rapid cycling that there may be. I am currently impressed with Trileptal as an anti-cycling treatment.
>
> Any female hormonal stuff going on?Hi Scott. No, no female hormonal stuff..though I am peri-menopausal, all my hormones are withing normal limits.
You know, I have tried both Lithium and Lamictal before, and they had no effect on me. But that was before ect. ect caused great changes in me. prior to it I was definitely straight-up unipolar depressed. But after ect, which made me feel worse, not better, my illness turned into a very different beast. my meds no longer worked for me, and my depression and anxiety got much, much worse. and i realize, now that I think about it, that my moods started to go all over the place, whereas prior to ect they had been pretty steady. So maybe lithium and lamictal would have an effect now. I'll see what my pdoc thinks. I still have some of each of them. I hope you are continuing to feel better and continue to enjoy your vacation
Kat
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by baseball55 on November 24, 2012, at 19:51:41
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » baseball55, posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 9:54:19
My p-doc isn't so big on labels. He said you have terrible problems with mood swings and depression. Call it bipolar 3(a) or whatever you want. His clinical experience was that lamictal is very effective in reducing suicidal ideation. But mostly he wanted me to find a DBT therapist. I can't tell you how much it has helped to learn how to manage these swings without panicking and sinking deeper and deeper down. I was being continually hospitalized, had made two suicide attempts and medication was not helping enough.
It's been incredibly important to me to gain some control over how I react to these mood swings with DBT. I haven't been hospitalized in a year and a half (and I was hospitalized a lot, at least every year for several years and usually for weeks at a time) and feel mostly better. When my mood dips too deeply, I take a heavy dose of xanax and haldol and knock myself out for 14 hours or so. I generally awake feeling better.
Did they ever give you a diagnosis for what was going on? I hope you feel better, and can keep out of that abyss. It is a nightmare there, is it not?
> Kat
>
>
Posted by baseball55 on November 24, 2012, at 19:55:33
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by baseball55 on November 24, 2012, at 19:51:41
PS - I know this is a medication board, but you can't discount the importance of therapy. The whole point of DBT is to help people with extreme dysregulated emotions to gain a modicum of control. The woman who invented it herself spent years in and out of institutions.
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2012, at 20:43:34
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » Phillipa, posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 9:57:39
Kat I read the post to Jono. But I thought you liked the outpatient program? Now I'm confused? Phillipa
Posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 22:23:18
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
> Hi all, sorry i've not been around of late. i've been in pretty bad shape.
>
> i wonder if any of you could shed some light on something for me. many of you may remember a post i made a couple of weeks ago asking for help because i was really, really, really down. everyone was so great in their responses and suggestions. but in the end, a few days after crying for help b/c i felt like dying, i just got better one day, for no apparent reason. there had been no change in my meds (i'm on 30mg/day Nardil and 10mg tid Ritalin plus gabapenting for anxiety and Elavil 50mg hs for sleep). It was great to feel better, but, again for no apparent reason, a few days after getting better i took a nosedive back into the abyss, where i have been living for about a week until a couple of days ago when, once again for no apparent reason, i felt better. Then yesterday afternoon, another fall into the abyss, where i am now living again.
>
> So I go up and down between the worst dysphoria imaginable to feeling simply depressed. And there is absolutely no reason I can think of for this, no changes in my meds, no changes in my life. It almost feels like a switch is being turned on and off in my brain.
>
> I would think that i have become bipolar (i have never been diagnosed as bipolar in the decades i've had depression) but the swings aren't between dysphoria and mania, they are between feeling bad and feeling really, really bad.
>
> And each time I fall into the abyss, I seem to go deeper; I seem to feel worse and worse each time. at this rate i will reach china in about a week.
>
> I should also mention that when I am in the state of really nasty dysphoria, my meds don't seem to work. the ritalin i'm on doesn't even make a dent in my mood.
>
> I've never experienced anything like this before.
>
> So, any ideas anyone??? Any advice?
>
> I am really scared by these incredibly deep dark depressions. I am so afraid that they will eventually get so bad that i will become catatonic or something, or that i will feel so much pain that i will give up and end it all.
>
> Help, please!!! I just can't go on like this.Yes, this sounds almost exactly like what I've been going through the past few months. Since starting Lyrica, I've had a greater ratio of good (i.e. tolerable) days to bad days (before that I'd be lucky to have two straight weeks of feeling functional, though I had been doing a lot of med trials during that time.) I recently went through a month at a stable condition, until I banged my head and went through a two week down period which I think I just recovered from (possibly with the aid of Buspar). I just wish I could get beyond "tolerable", as much as I appreciate it.
I have my doubts as to whether such a condition can fall anywhere beneath the bi-polar spectrum, but rather believe it has something to do with the complex relationship between medication, metabolism, and tolerance.
Posted by brynb on November 25, 2012, at 16:33:43
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Hi kat-
I'm sorry. I really understand. I just sent you babblemail.
Knowing you and your situation I have a hunch. Email me, ok?
Feel as better as you could, hang in.
Posted by brynb on November 25, 2012, at 16:36:52
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Hi kat-
I'm sorry. I really understand. I just sent you babblemail.
Knowing you and your situation I have a hunch. Email me, ok?
Feel as better as you could, hang in.
Posted by brynb on November 25, 2012, at 16:37:00
In reply to Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!!, posted by ChicagoKat on November 23, 2012, at 9:44:33
Hi kat-
I'm sorry. I really understand. I just sent you babblemail.
Knowing you and your situation I have a hunch. Email me, ok?
Feel as better as you could, hang in.
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 26, 2012, at 8:12:08
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » ChicagoKat, posted by brynb on November 25, 2012, at 16:37:00
> Hi kat-
>
> I'm sorry. I really understand. I just sent you babblemail.
>
> Knowing you and your situation I have a hunch. Email me, ok?
>
> Feel as better as you could, hang in.Hey bryn...I just sent you another babblemail (and I'm sorry my mails always get so long; it's like I just can't stop once I get going) Anyways, I'm curious about this hunch! Let me know, if you are feeling better, cos I'm seeing my pdoc tomorrow, and I'm always looking for new ideas to present to him. I really hope you are feeling better.
Kat
>
>
Posted by brynb on November 26, 2012, at 9:39:02
In reply to Re: Nasty mood swings Need help desperately!!! » brynb, posted by ChicagoKat on November 26, 2012, at 8:12:08
hi kat-
thank you soo much. I just read your your emails and they made me feel a lot better. I got home last night and wailed to my closest friend (she understands as she does suffer from depression, just not quite like us). Then passed out from sheer exhaustion. My dog slept on top of my head all night :).
Needless to say, I didn't go to jury duty (it was my 7th summons in NY!). Now I'm trying to call them and no one picks up. Also trying to take care of unemployment where no one picks up as well. I'm seeing my pdoc on Weds and will talk to him about disability. AND about the way you describe feeling in this post. I'm okay for a few weeks, then not good, then unable to function i become and a screaming lunatic. it's scary.
hope you're doing better. I'll email you shortly (I'm too tired to move right now).
-b
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