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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sk85 on September 21, 2012, at 17:05:35
I've been getting some really good results with combining low dose clomipramine 10-20 mg with yohimbine (yohimbe extract). On its own 10-20 mg clom does nothing for depression, but yohimbine add-on seems to really really pull me out of the blues when they hit me. However, it does make me feel somewhat worse the first 2-3 h after taking it, but after that it completely reverses direction. The crappy feeling does show tendencies for being reduced over time. Anyway, has anyone else ever used yohimbine for mood issues?
PS. Yohimbine can produce toxic effects with some other tricyclics, e.g. imipramine.-Ikaros
Posted by SLS on September 21, 2012, at 23:53:55
In reply to Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by sk85 on September 21, 2012, at 17:05:35
> I've been getting some really good results with combining low dose clomipramine 10-20 mg with yohimbine (yohimbe extract). On its own 10-20 mg clom does nothing for depression, but yohimbine add-on seems to really really pull me out of the blues when they hit me. However, it does make me feel somewhat worse the first 2-3 h after taking it, but after that it completely reverses direction. The crappy feeling does show tendencies for being reduced over time. Anyway, has anyone else ever used yohimbine for mood issues?
> PS. Yohimbine can produce toxic effects with some other tricyclics, e.g. imipramine.There is some overlap of properties between yohimbine and Remeron (mirtazapine) - NE alpha-2 antagonism.
- Scott
Posted by sk85 on September 23, 2012, at 13:57:54
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine » sk85, posted by SLS on September 21, 2012, at 23:53:55
> > I've been getting some really good results with combining low dose clomipramine 10-20 mg with yohimbine (yohimbe extract). On its own 10-20 mg clom does nothing for depression, but yohimbine add-on seems to really really pull me out of the blues when they hit me. However, it does make me feel somewhat worse the first 2-3 h after taking it, but after that it completely reverses direction. The crappy feeling does show tendencies for being reduced over time. Anyway, has anyone else ever used yohimbine for mood issues?
> > PS. Yohimbine can produce toxic effects with some other tricyclics, e.g. imipramine.
>
> There is some overlap of properties between yohimbine and Remeron (mirtazapine) - NE alpha-2 antagonism.
>
>
> - ScottYet, I find it is more effective and dramatic than mirtazapine in shifting mood states. Mirtazapine in my case was rather very mild, except the sedation. I can definately "feel" yohimbine having a strong serotonergic feel to it (alpha 2 antagonist can and will increase 5-HT firing), but it could just be the unusual potentiation of clomipramine's SRI properties. Or I am somehow very susceptible to yohimbine's antidepressant aspect. I'm really suprised how it affects my ability to feel pleasure in things like music, socializing, entertainment and resting, as I'm usually very agitated person who finds no pleasure in resting and tends to overwork until my health deteriorates and I crash with severe depression. The only problem I see with yohimbine is that it's not so kind to the heart, I need to take atenolol to calm my heart down when taking it. Also as it is the case with many ADs, these effects might be subject to a poop-out in the long term.
It also has very unique approach to my anxiety issues. Check out the study on yohimbine and anxiety:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19242678
Acutely though, it's rather distressing substance.-Ikaros
Posted by bleauberry on September 23, 2012, at 14:59:47
In reply to Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by sk85 on September 21, 2012, at 17:05:35
I used to play around with using yohimbe to counter the partial numbing effect prozac had on me. It worked awesome and fast. But it was problematic. As you said, it could feel worse for a bit and then get pretty good. When it wears off, that sucks. And if I took too much, that really sucked. Teeth clenching nervousness. The doses I took had to be really small, so I was cutting tiny bits off of a pill. Later on had a different brand and just took small amounts of the powder from inside the capsule. Yohimbe definitely worked great, but the before and after periods were just too troublesome for me, and the open window when yohimbe worked was short, sort of like ritalin.
I think what it hints to us though is that stimulation of the norepinephrine circuits plays a role in our mood symptoms.
> I've been getting some really good results with combining low dose clomipramine 10-20 mg with yohimbine (yohimbe extract). On its own 10-20 mg clom does nothing for depression, but yohimbine add-on seems to really really pull me out of the blues when they hit me. However, it does make me feel somewhat worse the first 2-3 h after taking it, but after that it completely reverses direction. The crappy feeling does show tendencies for being reduced over time. Anyway, has anyone else ever used yohimbine for mood issues?
> PS. Yohimbine can produce toxic effects with some other tricyclics, e.g. imipramine.
>
> -Ikaros
Posted by SLS on September 23, 2012, at 21:24:54
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by sk85 on September 23, 2012, at 13:57:54
Hi.
> alpha 2 antagonist can and will increase 5-HT firing
That's very interesting. Where could I find more information about this? Do you know what brain structures or circuits are involved?
Thanks for the link.
- Scott
Posted by sk85 on September 24, 2012, at 12:20:47
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine » sk85, posted by SLS on September 23, 2012, at 21:24:54
> Hi.
>
> > alpha 2 antagonist can and will increase 5-HT firing
>
> That's very interesting. Where could I find more information about this? Do you know what brain structures or circuits are involved?
>
> Thanks for the link.
>
>
> - ScottIt works through alpha 2 heteroreceptors on serotonin neurons.
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/277/2/861.abstract
In yohimbine's case it could also be due to 5-HT1A partial agonism which leads to densitization and subsequent increase in serotonin levels, much like SSRIs work.
Posted by sk85 on September 24, 2012, at 12:30:40
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by bleauberry on September 23, 2012, at 14:59:47
> When it wears off, that sucks.
>the open window when yohimbe worked was short, sort of like ritalin.What exactly do you mean. Effects pooping out long term, or just a short duration of effects? You could always take more (to the point of tolerating it). It's metabolite's half life is quite long actually. If I remeber correctly it was around 12 h which is just barely enough for a pill to be useful. I wouldn't compare yohimbine to Ritalin. Ritalin is a quick feel good pill and not a viable solution long term. Yohimbine makes you first feel (shortly) worse before making you feel better - something I have noticed many therapeutic meds share, but it's not a rule of thumb, of course.
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2012, at 15:44:38
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by sk85 on September 24, 2012, at 12:20:47
> It works through alpha 2 heteroreceptors on serotonin neurons.
Are these heteroreceptors excitatory or inhibitory upon 5-HT neurons? Where are they located?
- Scott
Posted by 4WD on September 29, 2012, at 12:37:55
In reply to Re: Boosting ADs with yohimbine, posted by sk85 on September 23, 2012, at 13:57:54
> > > I've been getting some really good results with combining low dose clomipramine 10-20 mg with yohimbine (yohimbe extract). On its own 10-20 mg clom does nothing for depression, but yohimbine add-on seems to really really pull me out of the blues when they hit me. However, it does make me feel somewhat worse the first 2-3 h after taking it, but after that it completely reverses direction. The crappy feeling does show tendencies for being reduced over time. Anyway, has anyone else ever used yohimbine for ...
No but I have used it for energy boosting attempts, while is an ssri plus Geodon plus Trazadone with no ill effect. Ididn' much help though.
What if I took it with Parnate as an energy booster?I've been supplementing my (new) Parnate regimen with Rhodiola and also with "Super Thermoboost Hardcore" our some such. It has caffeine, cayenne, l-Carnitine and piperidine. I they are both contraindicated with Parnate but my blood pressure mainly stays way too low, anyway. (Al th hough it dud spike up to 195/122 once for about an hour. Normally its more likely to dip down to 60/40.
Have you tried Maca? Or Matcha?
I think a lot of contraindications are simply attempts at butt-covering. I took ginseng with Parnate-(big no no) & no crisis ensued-my bp would just go some for a while. In fact I took ginseng, Rhodiola, and Super Hardcore Thermoboost along with a20mg dose if Parnate. (I'm so desperate to have some energy instead if the overwhelming apathy and lethargy that I am willing to risk a stoke.)Bp went from 60/40 to 145/95 for aa while but that's all. As long as you keep the doses small, I'd do whatever works. And monitor any signs of toxicity.
Its very cool to know about Yohimbe's potential benefit and is mechanism of action.
Marsha
> > > PS. Yohimbine can produce toxic effects with some other tricyclics, e.g. imipramine.
> >
> > There is some overlap of properties between yohimbine and Remeron (mirtazapine) - NE alpha-2 antagonism.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Yet, I find it is more effective and dramatic than mirtazapine in shifting mood states. Mirtazapine in my case was rather very mild, except the sedation. I can definately "feel" yohimbine having a strong serotonergic feel to it (alpha 2 antagonist can and will increase 5-HT firing), but it could just be the unusual potentiation of clomipramine's SRI properties. Or I am somehow very susceptible to yohimbine's antidepressant aspect. I'm really suprised how it affects my ability to feel pleasure in things like music, socializing, entertainment and resting, as I'm usually very agitated person who finds no pleasure in resting and tends to overwork until my health deteriorates and I crash with severe depression. The only problem I see with yohimbine is that it's not so kind to the heart, I need to take atenolol to calm my heart down when taking it. Also as it is the case uwith many ADs, these effects might be subject to a poop-out in the long term.I read to take atenol, etc as sparingly as possible. They aren't really very good for your heart long term.
> It also has very unique approach to my anxiety issues. Check out the study on yohimbine and anxiety:
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19242678
> Acutely though, it's rather distressing substance.
>
> -Ikaros
This is the end of the thread.
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