![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 15:11:54
I'm trying to come off Tramadol. I've been taking 100mg for 11 months. I am down to 75mg, but I keep getting terrible depression and withdrawals if I try to cut down further. I want to get off the stuff as quickly as possible.
A friend suggested I try and move to an antidepressant instead. Can I just stop the Tramadol on the day, and take an antidepressant the next? I don't want to wait weeks slowly reducing the dose because my depression is so bad. I feel like I cannot function each time I reduce it, and I feel very depressed and unwell.
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2012, at 16:51:45
In reply to Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 15:11:54
Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
Posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 17:05:09
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP! » underthesky, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2012, at 16:51:45
> Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
I googled that and yes some people are saying it has helped opiate withdrawal specifically, but I can't find many people who used it for Tramadol.
Is this safe to switch to when I'm still on 75mg of Tramadol? Some people I've read are taking 300-400mg of Tramadol and an SSRI, which is high compared to me, but just want to be sure and safe.
Does it also have to be Prozac or can it be any SSRI antidepressant?
Posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 18:14:45
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 17:05:09
> > Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
>
> I googled that and yes some people are saying it has helped opiate withdrawal specifically, but I can't find many people who used it for Tramadol.
>
> Is this safe to switch to when I'm still on 75mg of Tramadol? Some people I've read are taking 300-400mg of Tramadol and an SSRI, which is high compared to me, but just want to be sure and safe.
>
> Does it also have to be Prozac or can it be any SSRI antidepressant?
>Hi there,
Sorry you're having a rough time--withdrawal is awful. So yes, you can safely use Prozac (or any SRI) with low doses of Tramadol. (Remember though, SRIs take a few weeks to kick-in.) I currently take 50mg of Tramadol w/ 20mg of Lexapro and 300mg of Lithium. Taper slowly (75-50-25-12.5). A benzo used as a prn might be helpful. I'm not sure if your doc would do this, but if it's really difficult, Subutex or Suboxone would help (it's used for opiate withdrawal and is a good antidepressant on its own) BUT if taken too long, you'll have to withdraw from that, so it's probably not ideal.
Good luck.
-b
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 25, 2012, at 19:31:01
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP! » underthesky, posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 18:14:45
> > > Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
> >
> > I googled that and yes some people are saying it has helped opiate withdrawal specifically, but I can't find many people who used it for Tramadol.
> >
> > Is this safe to switch to when I'm still on 75mg of Tramadol? Some people I've read are taking 300-400mg of Tramadol and an SSRI, which is high compared to me, but just want to be sure and safe.
> >
> > Does it also have to be Prozac or can it be any SSRI antidepressant?
> >
>
> Hi there,
>
> Sorry you're having a rough time--withdrawal is awful. So yes, you can safely use Prozac (or any SRI) with low doses of Tramadol. (Remember though, SRIs take a few weeks to kick-in.) I currently take 50mg of Tramadol w/ 20mg of Lexapro and 300mg of Lithium. Taper slowly (75-50-25-12.5). A benzo used as a prn might be helpful. I'm not sure if your doc would do this, but if it's really difficult, Subutex or Suboxone would help (it's used for opiate withdrawal and is a good antidepressant on its own) BUT if taken too long, you'll have to withdraw from that, so it's probably not ideal.
>
> Good luck.
>
> -bFriends,
It is written here,[...you can safely use Prozac...with..Tramadol...].
These two chemicals together can have the potential to cause serotonin syndrome which can cause death. Also, the two together can induce siezures. If there is some citation one can post here to say otherwise, could you please post such?
It is also posted here,[...a benzo..might be helpful...].
My friends, a benzo can be addicting in a short time of use. There are case of just a few days of use causing addiction. BUt there is much more to this...
Lou
Posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 20:14:16
In reply to Lou's warning-trampro, posted by Lou Pilder on July 25, 2012, at 19:31:01
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...you can safely use Prozac...with..Tramadol...].
> These two chemicals together can have the potential to cause serotonin syndrome which can cause death. Also, the two together can induce siezures. If there is some citation one can post here to say otherwise, could you please post such?
> It is also posted here,[...a benzo..might be helpful...].
> My friends, a benzo can be addicting in a short time of use. There are case of just a few days of use causing addiction. BUt there is much more to this...
> LouLou,
You are correct, there is a risk of serotonin syndrome when using Tramadol with an AD, but it is very rare with low doses of Tramadol (and one would know immediately if this occurred, before it becomes life-threatening). While it certainly doesn't take the place of clinical studies, my pharmacists informed me that many people use Tramadol with ADs. I have been doing so for some time, and have been fine and found great relief.
And yes, Tramadol does lower the seizure threshold (on its own), but again, at low doses, it is very rare. Many psych drugs lower the seizure threshold, such as Wellbutrin. I have had seizures in the past, though never while on these meds. Using a benzo while withdrawing from Tramadol would in fact help prevent seizures. It is widely known that benzos are highly addictive, but if taken sparingly at low doses for no more than a month, they can be super helpful and the potential of addiction is much lower than when used for longer periods.
I've read many of your posts, Lou, and while it's admirable that you are clearly interested in helping people understand the dangers of psych meds, many of us simply haven't been able to do without them. I'm hoping someday soon I'll be able to, but for now, I try to educate myself as much as possible about mental illness, medications, the possible risks and alternative solutions. So far, for me, the benefits of these meds have outweighed the risks. I'm an educated consumer, and as such, I take responsibility for my health.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 25, 2012, at 20:26:18
In reply to Lou's warning-trampro, posted by Lou Pilder on July 25, 2012, at 19:31:01
> > > > Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
> > >
> > > I googled that and yes some people are saying it has helped opiate withdrawal specifically, but I can't find many people who used it for Tramadol.
> > >
> > > Is this safe to switch to when I'm still on 75mg of Tramadol? Some people I've read are taking 300-400mg of Tramadol and an SSRI, which is high compared to me, but just want to be sure and safe.
> > >
> > > Does it also have to be Prozac or can it be any SSRI antidepressant?
> > >
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Sorry you're having a rough time--withdrawal is awful. So yes, you can safely use Prozac (or any SRI) with low doses of Tramadol. (Remember though, SRIs take a few weeks to kick-in.) I currently take 50mg of Tramadol w/ 20mg of Lexapro and 300mg of Lithium. Taper slowly (75-50-25-12.5). A benzo used as a prn might be helpful. I'm not sure if your doc would do this, but if it's really difficult, Subutex or Suboxone would help (it's used for opiate withdrawal and is a good antidepressant on its own) BUT if taken too long, you'll have to withdraw from that, so it's probably not ideal.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > -b
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[...you can safely use Prozac...with..Tramadol...].
> These two chemicals together can have the potential to cause serotonin syndrome which can cause death. Also, the two together can induce siezures. If there is some citation one can post here to say otherwise, could you please post such?
> It is also posted here,[...a benzo..might be helpful...].
> My friends, a benzo can be addicting in a short time of use. There are case of just a few days of use causing addiction. BUt there is much more to this...
> LouFriends,
It is posted here about the use of a benzo with Tramadol. Be advised that these two drugs have chemical constituants that are central nervous system depressants. And when taken together, the effect is potentiated which can cause respiratory depression and death. The mix of drugs in many famous people that were killed by the drugs that they took had drugs that were CNS /respiratory depressants.
But there is much more to this here. You see, there are numerous prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung that IMHO if the prohibitions were not made to me, lives could be saved, life-ruining conditionss could be prevented and addiction could be prevented. And more so, I could post what IMHHO could lead people out of the darkness of depression and addiction freely without price.
Now people will post here about their thinking on how one can be free from a drug. They could post about adding another drug, substituting a drug, decerasing the dosage, take herbals, exercise and such which is all well and good if you want to use human achievement to make yourself free from a drug. But you know, even if that happens, where are you? Are you right back where you started from? Are you there but with brain damage, diabetes, dyskinesia, kidney disease, thyroid dysfunction,sexual dysfunction or any of the other life-ruining conditions that these drugs can cause? Now what?
But what if you could have a new mind, a new heart, a new spirit? Not like the one that you had when the doctor first gave you the drug, and healing of the damages that the drugs did to you?
Now you can take more drugs but if the drug has done this to you that you want a way out from it, what assurance is there that taking another drug will not make you worse off that the first?
You see, I know what causes depression and I know a way out. I know a way out of the darkness of death and into a marvelous light of life and peace and joy. There will be no more tears, no more pain, no more death. For death will be cast into a lake of fire and with it depression and addiction. I have seen the winepress that you could be in. I have seen who treads upon it. And I have seen the wrath of the one treading upon it. But be of good cheer, the one treading the winepress has revealed to me a way to overcome and escape being part of the grapes of wrath.
Lou
Posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 21:17:14
In reply to Lou's warning-benzotram, posted by Lou Pilder on July 25, 2012, at 20:26:18
> Friends,
> It is posted here about the use of a benzo with Tramadol. Be advised that these two drugs have chemical constituants that are central nervous system depressants. And when taken together, the effect is potentiated which can cause respiratory depression and death. The mix of drugs in many famous people that were killed by the drugs that they took had drugs that were CNS /respiratory depressants.**LOU-Again, at high doses, Tramadol & benzos (or any other opiate w/ a benzo) are dangerous because of respiratory depression. Hopefully people are aware of this, and more importantly, hopefully their doctors warn them of the dangers. However, please note the poster is only taking 75mg of Tramadol (a WEAK analgesic) and trying to lower the dose. That's a low dose. My suggestion was to use a benzo as a PRN (as needed, not routinely) at a low dose (ie .5mg Xanax). The famous people you refer to (and others) who died from respiratory depression were taking high amounts of benzos and/or opiates, and/or sleeping pills and/or alcohol. So, death was the outcome of mixing copious amounts of substances. That is hardly what I am suggesting.
> But there is much more to this here. You see, there are numerous prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung that IMHO if the prohibitions were not made to me, lives could be saved, life-ruining conditionss could be prevented and addiction could be prevented. And more so, I could post what IMHHO could lead people out of the darkness of depression and addiction freely without price.**Why would Dr. Bob (or anyone) not allow you to share your unique and seemingly ground-breaking revelations to so many people whose lives you could save?
> Are you there but with brain damage, diabetes, dyskinesia, kidney disease, thyroid dysfunction,sexual dysfunction or any of the other life-ruining conditions that these drugs can cause? Now what?
**Fortunately, I have yet to experience these conditions. I visit my doctor regularly and keep my health in check. I hope I remain this fortunate.
> But what if you could have a new mind, a new heart, a new spirit? Not like the one that you had when the doctor first gave you the drug, and healing of the damages that the drugs did to you?
**Please Lou, if indeed you hold the key to a new way of being, share your wisdom.
> Now you can take more drugs but if the drug has done this to you that you want a way out from it, what assurance is there that taking another drug will not make you worse off that the first?
**Personally, drugs did not make me depressed. I started taking meds to remedy the depression. As for the poster, it seems she/he was doing well on Tramadol, but now experiencing problems coming off of it. No one is saying for him/her to stay on another drug or replace it with another, just offering advice for relief while withdrawing from one. It is up to us as consumers to know the facts about meds and be educated.
> You see, I know what causes depression and I know a way out. I know a way out of the darkness of death and into a marvelous light of life and peace and joy. There will be no more tears, no more pain, no more death. For death will be cast into a lake of fire and with it depression and addiction. I have seen the winepress that you could be in. I have seen who treads upon it. And I have seen the wrath of the one treading upon it. But be of good cheer, the one treading the winepress has revealed to me a way to overcome and escape being part of the grapes of wrath.
**Again, these revelations sound miraculous, so why not share them? And why so cryptic?
-B
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2012, at 23:44:25
In reply to Re: Lou's warning-benzotram » Lou Pilder, posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 21:17:14
This is Lou. Phillipa
Posted by brynb on July 26, 2012, at 6:06:59
In reply to Re: Lou's warning-benzotram » brynb, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2012, at 23:44:25
Hi Phillipa,
I know, I'm familiar with Lou's posts, and I do truly think it's commendable to look out for people's safety/warn them of possible risks/etc., but it's another thing to use unnecessary scare tactics with no solid examples and to babble about the coming of the messiah. I guess it's only fair, though. It is psychobabble, after all ;).
Sorry, underthesky, that your thread was hijacked...
-B
Posted by bleauberry on July 27, 2012, at 5:03:10
In reply to Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 15:11:54
Tramadol is one of the hardest to withdraw from, probably because the withdrawal involves three different chemistries....serotonin, norepinephrine, opioids, and actually some dopamine too. Four.
An antidepressant might help but I think it would have to be a true balanced SNRI approach, to sort of simulate tramadol. That would help with the serotonin/norepinephrine side of things. The opioid part of it is the hardest. To get that effect one could consider Savella (very low dose), zoloft + nortriptyline, prozac + nortriptyline. The prozac would probably be better due to its long half life, and has been helpful to withdraw from effexor, which is sort of similar to tramadol.
No matter what, it is still going to hurt. Reducicng the amount of hurt makes sense to me, but it can't be avoided completely.
The tramadol withdrawal depression is really bad, I know. But it is also....fake....it isn't real....drug induced....and is short lived....several days to maybe a week or so. Some people just go through the darkest hell for a few days and then it is behind them. I guess if you go into knowing that is expected and you know what is happening, it could be done but not easy.
My doc told me it would take 6 weeks to become addicted. Wrong. It only took 3 days. Even after just 3 days, withdrawals were really bad for about 2 days, and then cleared up rapidly like a thunderstorm blown by.
Hang in there. Another thing to try is smaller steps. That is, instead of going from 100mg to 75mg, go from 100mg to 95mg for 4 days, then 90mg for 4 days, or something similar. No hurry. No calendar. No schedule. Small pieces of the pill can be removed to get approximate doses. They don't have to be exact. The point is to keep decreasing the dose but each step down should be really tiny. The only way to do that is custom dosing.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 27, 2012, at 5:43:07
In reply to Re: Lou's warning-benzotram » Lou Pilder, posted by brynb on July 25, 2012, at 21:17:14
> > Friends,
> > It is posted here about the use of a benzo with Tramadol. Be advised that these two drugs have chemical constituants that are central nervous system depressants. And when taken together, the effect is potentiated which can cause respiratory depression and death. The mix of drugs in many famous people that were killed by the drugs that they took had drugs that were CNS /respiratory depressants.
>
> **LOU-Again, at high doses, Tramadol & benzos (or any other opiate w/ a benzo) are dangerous because of respiratory depression. Hopefully people are aware of this, and more importantly, hopefully their doctors warn them of the dangers. However, please note the poster is only taking 75mg of Tramadol (a WEAK analgesic) and trying to lower the dose. That's a low dose. My suggestion was to use a benzo as a PRN (as needed, not routinely) at a low dose (ie .5mg Xanax). The famous people you refer to (and others) who died from respiratory depression were taking high amounts of benzos and/or opiates, and/or sleeping pills and/or alcohol. So, death was the outcome of mixing copious amounts of substances. That is hardly what I am suggesting.
>
>
> > But there is much more to this here. You see, there are numerous prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung that IMHO if the prohibitions were not made to me, lives could be saved, life-ruining conditionss could be prevented and addiction could be prevented. And more so, I could post what IMHHO could lead people out of the darkness of depression and addiction freely without price.
>
> **Why would Dr. Bob (or anyone) not allow you to share your unique and seemingly ground-breaking revelations to so many people whose lives you could save?
>
> > Are you there but with brain damage, diabetes, dyskinesia, kidney disease, thyroid dysfunction,sexual dysfunction or any of the other life-ruining conditions that these drugs can cause? Now what?
>
> **Fortunately, I have yet to experience these conditions. I visit my doctor regularly and keep my health in check. I hope I remain this fortunate.
>
> > But what if you could have a new mind, a new heart, a new spirit? Not like the one that you had when the doctor first gave you the drug, and healing of the damages that the drugs did to you?
>
> **Please Lou, if indeed you hold the key to a new way of being, share your wisdom.
>
> > Now you can take more drugs but if the drug has done this to you that you want a way out from it, what assurance is there that taking another drug will not make you worse off that the first?
>
> **Personally, drugs did not make me depressed. I started taking meds to remedy the depression. As for the poster, it seems she/he was doing well on Tramadol, but now experiencing problems coming off of it. No one is saying for him/her to stay on another drug or replace it with another, just offering advice for relief while withdrawing from one. It is up to us as consumers to know the facts about meds and be educated.
>
> > You see, I know what causes depression and I know a way out. I know a way out of the darkness of death and into a marvelous light of life and peace and joy. There will be no more tears, no more pain, no more death. For death will be cast into a lake of fire and with it depression and addiction. I have seen the winepress that you could be in. I have seen who treads upon it. And I have seen the wrath of the one treading upon it. But be of good cheer, the one treading the winepress has revealed to me a way to overcome and escape being part of the grapes of wrath.
>
> **Again, these revelations sound miraculous, so why not share them? And why so cryptic?
>
> -B
>
> Friends,
If you are following this dialog between me and the poster above, I am requesting that you read the following responses from me to the poster. You see, I think that your life could be saved, or a life-ruining condition/addiction avoided if youu read my response to the poster here.
There are many aspects presented here that could IMHO lead one to their death. Let's look at this one first.
[...the poster is only taking 75 mg of Tramadol..that's a low dose...my suggestion was to use a benzo as a PRN at a low dose...people who died..death was an outcome of mixing copious amounts of substances...whay would Dr Bob..not allow you to share...].
Let's use some critical thinking here by reading what is written. Is there some type of meaning in the statement that people could get that there is such a thing as a safe dose of Tramadol? The poster calls the amount of Tramadol taken by the innitiator of the thread a {low dose}. The poster referrs to a {high dose} being dangerous. But is there a citation, othere than anecdotal, as to what is or is not a high dose or a low dose or where such a line could be drawn so that below would be a safe dose? Can people be led to believe that 75 mg of Tramadol is safe to take? But is there any substantiation by a citation from an accepted source to indicate that there is such a thing as a high or low dose and that 75 mg is safe to take?
My friends, the chemical constituants of Tramadol are in any dose one takes. These chemicals react with the enzymes in the liver to produce a metabolite and react in ways that I am not permitted to post about here. You could do a search here of [Lou, Tramadol] or [Lou, Ambrose] or [Lou, thalidomide] or [Lou, benzene] and find a thread where I was stopped by Mr. Hsiung from posting historical facts, facts that I think could mark the difference between you being a live person or a corpse.
You see, when one talks about dosage, be advised that one dose for one person could be much more to another person because of the person's body mass, what other chemicals are in the person's body, the person's age or gender or other aspects of a person's make-up so that one dosage for one person could be different for another person. I do not see any of the make-up of the innitiator of this thread and he/she could be a young or old person, a heavy or thin person, or have aspects unbeknownst to us.
Now our Scott here, posted about the {low dose} thinking. One can do a search here to fiind that.
But there is much more to this. You see, I have reports from the FDA where people died from taking one pill of a psychotropic drug. Or got a life-threatening condition from what could be called a {low dose} as some doctors start people off with a dose and then increase the dose gradually. So we could have aa {lower} dose or a {higher} dose, but I do not prescribe to any thinking that the lower dose is always {safe} in that one could not die or get a life-threatening condition from the {lower} dose.
You see, I think that there is a great danger here if one is led to believe that there are safe dosages to take of any mind-altering drug. Can one take a safe dose of heroin? Can one take a safe dose of Xanax? Can one take a safe dose of prozac/paxil/luvox/lexapro/celexa?
You see, those drugs are fluorinated, which means that they have the chemical cinstituant being {fluoride}. And fluoride is accumlative. You see, even if there was such a thing as a safe dose, there could be an accumulation in the organs so that the {unsafe} level of the drug could be reached in the body. There are many cases of liver failure that can lead to death or a transplant from these drugs. People who drink just a little, {low dose} over time can die from liver failure later in life. You know, if I was not prohibitted from contiuing posting here about Tramadol/Effexor and such, I could have posted the chemistry of the drugs, how they were used and by whom for what and how psychotrpic drugs were developed. If you knew that, I think that you could have the education to be able to question even taking Tramadol at any dose.
And the poster here asks why would Mr. Hsiung have a prohibition to me if what I could post could save lives. Well, there are Mr. Hsiung's rationales posted here in some cases, but I do not accept them because Mr. Hsiung states that support takes precedence and that one match could start a forest fire and that he does not wait to stop such from being a possibility. And Mr. Hsiung states in his TOS that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, and to not just trust him in that, but to {try} to trust him in that, which is different from just trusting.
So if death could be a result of Mr. Hsiung prohibiting me from posting what IMHO could save lives, and that he states that he does what in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole, (and try to trust him in that), then by the nature of that quantities equal to the same quantity are equal to each other, then death could be thought to be good for this community as a whole.
You see, I came here to show you how to find a new life, free from the bondage of addiction and depression. It has been revealed to me a way to be delivered from this bondage into a new life, a more abundant life, free from the shakles of addiction/depression. The innitiator of this thread wants to be free from Tramadol. Does it matter what the poster's reason(s) could be? And if the poster wants to use human acheivement to find a way out from the drug, that is the poster's choice and they can reject this opportunity that I offer now. But if one wants to find a way out to a new life, free from addiction/depression by divine accomplishment, then they could accept this opportunity now. Just because one that takes these mind-altering drugs has not died yet, that does not mean that they could not die tomorrow from these drugs.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/tramadol/sudden+death
Posted by SLS on July 27, 2012, at 7:57:22
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by bleauberry on July 27, 2012, at 5:03:10
If all else fails:
This is probably a long shot...
Trileptal helps with benzodiazepine and alcohol discontinuation. Perhaps it would also help with opioid and SRI discontinuation by dampening glutamatergic hyper-reactivity. If Trileptal were going to work, it would probably do so almost immediately.
- Scott
Posted by Brynb on July 27, 2012, at 8:48:19
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP! » bleauberry, posted by SLS on July 27, 2012, at 7:57:22
I'm in agreement w/ bleuberry. Tramadol w/d depression is chemical, and sometimes you gotta just bite the bullet (if you can) and suffer through a few days/week of crippling depression knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
I also agree w/ Scott's suggestion for Trileptal. It definitely worked for me in the past when coming off of benzos and it sounds like a good option.
And Lou, yes, drugs at any strength carry a risk. We need to weigh the benefits vs the risks and make an educated decision.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2012, at 6:12:10
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by Brynb on July 27, 2012, at 8:48:19
> I'm in agreement w/ bleuberry. Tramadol w/d depression is chemical, and sometimes you gotta just bite the bullet (if you can) and suffer through a few days/week of crippling depression knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.
>
> I also agree w/ Scott's suggestion for Trileptal. It definitely worked for me in the past when coming off of benzos and it sounds like a good option.
>
> And Lou, yes, drugs at any strength carry a risk. We need to weigh the benefits vs the risks and make an educated decision.
>Brynb,
You wrote,[...and make an educated decision...]
To make an educated decision depends upon one knowing the facts. This community prohibits me from posting facts that could be included in one's decision as to take a drug or not. So if this community is for support and education, the prohibitions to me here by Mr. Hsiung could establish an indoctrination here by the exclusion of my input involving education to help people make a decision.
So this community can lead one to death by the nature of prohibiting me from posting facts. One can come here and see the statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand and the pages of outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung that go back days, weeks months and years which IMHHO is the antithesis of support. The poster here wants to be free from Tramadol and if the prohibitions to me were not made, I think that the poster could be delivered out from the bondage of the drug by reading the facts that I am prohibited from posting here. Is not the forum's (redacted by respondent) oxymoronic?
Lou
Posted by Brynb on July 28, 2012, at 7:51:57
In reply to Lou's reply-oxeemoorohn » Brynb, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2012, at 6:12:10
> > And Lou, yes, drugs at any strength carry a risk. We need to weigh the benefits vs the risks and make an educated decision.
> >
>
> Brynb,
> You wrote,[...and make an educated decision...]
> To make an educated decision depends upon one knowing the facts. This community prohibits me from posting facts that could be included in one's decision as to take a drug or not. So if this community is for support and education, the prohibitions to me here by Mr. Hsiung could establish an indoctrination here by the exclusion of my input involving education to help people make a decision.
> So this community can lead one to death by the nature of prohibiting me from posting facts. One can come here and see the statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand and the pages of outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung that go back days, weeks months and years which IMHHO is the antithesis of support. The poster here wants to be free from Tramadol and if the prohibitions to me were not made, I think that the poster could be delivered out from the bondage of the drug by reading the facts that I am prohibited from posting here. Is not the forum's (redacted by respondent) oxymoronic?
> LouOkay, Lou, here's my last response, because I'm not comfortable that underthesky's question for help with Tramadol has been hijacked, but I feel strongly enough to reply.
By making an educated decision, I consider feedback from my doctor, my pharmacist, other patients/reviews, any literature I can get my hands on, and my own experiences and biochemistry. The very idea that we all possess a unique biochemistry makes the "facts" about meds a generally fluid concept. I take medication knowing that side effects and other risks are possible at any dose. And I do this because I need relief from symptoms of depression that prevent me from functioning if left untreated. Information sourced from you tube doesn't constitute as "fact".
I'm curious as to where there is anti-Semitism on this site (or comments that provoke anti-Semitic feelings). I am Jewish (my grandparents on both sides are all originally from Europe and came to the US before and after WW2), and I would be extremely appalled at such sentiments. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just haven't seen it here.
Again, my apologies, underthesky.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2012, at 16:01:45
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-oxeemoorohn » Lou Pilder, posted by Brynb on July 28, 2012, at 7:51:57
> > > And Lou, yes, drugs at any strength carry a risk. We need to weigh the benefits vs the risks and make an educated decision.
> > >
> >
> > Brynb,
> > You wrote,[...and make an educated decision...]
> > To make an educated decision depends upon one knowing the facts. This community prohibits me from posting facts that could be included in one's decision as to take a drug or not. So if this community is for support and education, the prohibitions to me here by Mr. Hsiung could establish an indoctrination here by the exclusion of my input involving education to help people make a decision.
> > So this community can lead one to death by the nature of prohibiting me from posting facts. One can come here and see the statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that are allowed to stand and the pages of outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung that go back days, weeks months and years which IMHHO is the antithesis of support. The poster here wants to be free from Tramadol and if the prohibitions to me were not made, I think that the poster could be delivered out from the bondage of the drug by reading the facts that I am prohibited from posting here. Is not the forum's (redacted by respondent) oxymoronic?
> > Lou
>
> Okay, Lou, here's my last response, because I'm not comfortable that underthesky's question for help with Tramadol has been hijacked, but I feel strongly enough to reply.
>
> By making an educated decision, I consider feedback from my doctor, my pharmacist, other patients/reviews, any literature I can get my hands on, and my own experiences and biochemistry. The very idea that we all possess a unique biochemistry makes the "facts" about meds a generally fluid concept. I take medication knowing that side effects and other risks are possible at any dose. And I do this because I need relief from symptoms of depression that prevent me from functioning if left untreated. Information sourced from you tube doesn't constitute as "fact".
>
> I'm curious as to where there is anti-Semitism on this site (or comments that provoke anti-Semitic feelings). I am Jewish (my grandparents on both sides are all originally from Europe and came to the US before and after WW2), and I would be extremely appalled at such sentiments. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just haven't seen it here.
>
> Again, my apologies, underthesky.Brynb,
You wrote,[..I am curious as to where there is anti-Semitism on this site...].
Let us start here. In the thread that comes uup, I would like for you to read Mr. Hsiung's rationale given and my responses to him. To see the post in question.A. Go to the search box at the bottom of this page.
B. Key in:
[Lou's request to Dr Hsiung, 428781]
It is usually first and the number 428781 is in the colord strip
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 29, 2012, at 22:24:28
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 17:05:09
> > Can you take both maybe prozac as that is know to help withdrawal? Phillipa
>
> I googled that and yes some people are saying it has helped opiate withdrawal specifically, but I can't find many people who used it for Tramadol.
>
> Is this safe to switch to when I'm still on 75mg of Tramadol? Some people I've read are taking 300-400mg of Tramadol and an SSRI, which is high compared to me, but just want to be sure and safe.
>
> Does it also have to be Prozac or can it be any SSRI antidepressant?
>Friends
There is here the statement,[...is it safe to switch...?].
The withdrawal period is a very vulnerable time and can induce a mind-altered state to one to be compelled to killing themselves and/or others and even commit mass-murder. I know why this is but there are prohibitions to me here from Mr. Hsiung that will not allow me to post what could save the lives of those attempting to withdrawal from psychotropic drugs and to save the lives of those that could be murdered by the one in withdrawal.
You see, it has revealed to me the mechinism that is set in motion when one stops these drugs. And if you are attempting to withdrawal from these drugs, people here could give you all kinds of advice involving switching a drug or replacing a drug or tapering a drug or doing exercise or take herbals or use som type of mind-control and other related things that they think could help one in withdrawal. But it has been revealed to me what can have one overcome withdrawal that is beyound psychiatry/psychology. And if you are at the edge of a cliff and think that you will jump, before you do that, I am requesting that you ask your doctor to email me and then what I say to him/her could be told to you.
Be advised my friends, that (redacted by rspondent) and thearfore death comes. And if you think that while you are in the state of withdrawal that another drug added (redacted by respondent) death.
You see, there is a chemistry goin' on. A chemistry that is not new, a chemistry that has been used to kill insects and vermin and used in chemicals for mass-murder. I ask, how could more drugs be a solution to being free from drugs?
I have seen many people that have used human achievent to stop taking these drugs and did get to zero of the drug. But yoou know, they were right back where they started from but worse. Some still had the withdrawal symptoms even after years of not taking the drug. Some were just shells of their former selves before the road to druggin' was taken. Some had no emotions, they were not human, could not have sex or feelings, their minds (redacted by respondent) by the chemicals. Some killed themselves. This is why I ask you to read what I have been posting and look at the admin board, for your life IMHO could be saved. Not by the works of psychiatry/psychology, but by (redacted by rspondent) that I am prohibitte4d from posting here. So I am requesting that you ask your doctor the following. Ask your doctor if what he/she will plan for you to withdrawal will lewave you a humanless being. Ask your doctor if the plan for withdrawal could induce a mind-altered state for you to be compelled to kill yourself and/or others. Ask your doctor if they know the history and develpoment of mind-altering drugs. Ask your doctor if he/she knows that around 42,000 people died last year from psychiatric drugs. Ask you doctor if he/she gets money from the drug manufacturers. Ask you doctor if he/she knows that before he/she gave you the drug that they knew it was addicting or not. Ask you doctor to read the admin board here. Ask your doctor if he/she will provide a death benefit to your survivors in case of your death from the drug as to if you kill yoursef. Ask you doctor if he/she knows that the FDA now states that many of these drugs can cause suicide thinking. Ask your doctor to read my posts here.
ASk your doctor (redacted by respondent)
Lou
Posted by alamosa on August 4, 2012, at 20:45:29
In reply to Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 15:11:54
I have been addicted to tramadol off and on for 9 years.
Have quit successfully 3 or 4 times---time was the devil that defeated me when I failed.If you have been taking only 100 mg it may not be so bad or so protracted....I took maybe 15 to 20 50mg tablets a day for months at a time.
It takes about 5 to 6 weeks to get over it...the depression just won't let go and the sleep is poor.
I could not do without coffee it was just too demoralizing but you pay for that with more anxiety and less sleep.
Any other drug would be self defeating in my view...antidepressants etc....then you have to get off them...and you don't know what is doing what....if the jitteriness from the antidepressant or continued tramadol problems etc....
Just have courage it does go away.
Posted by alamosa on August 4, 2012, at 21:36:40
In reply to Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on July 25, 2012, at 15:11:54
I have been addicted to tramadol off and on for 9 years.
Have quit successfully 3 or 4 times---time was the devil that defeated me when I failed.If you have been taking only 100 mg it may not be so bad or so protracted....I took maybe 15 to 20 50mg tablets a day for months at a time.
It takes about 5 to 6 weeks to get over it...the depression just won't let go and the sleep is poor.
I could not do without coffee it was just too demoralizing but you pay for that with more anxiety and less sleep.
Any other drug would be self defeating in my view...antidepressants etc....then you have to get off them...and you don't know what is doing what....if the jitteriness from the antidepressant or continued tramadol problems etc....
Just have courage it does go away.
Posted by underthesky on August 8, 2012, at 9:30:34
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by alamosa on August 4, 2012, at 21:36:40
Just to post an update to all this. I am down to 50mg but I am going through a pretty bad spell at the moment. Next week I plan to be down to 25mg, and then 12.5mg.
Posted by brynb on August 8, 2012, at 10:01:59
In reply to Re: Tramadol withdrawal - HELP!, posted by underthesky on August 8, 2012, at 9:30:34
> Just to post an update to all this. I am down to 50mg but I am going through a pretty bad spell at the moment. Next week I plan to be down to 25mg, and then 12.5mg.
Glad to hear. Another "aid" of sorts to look at is Clonidine. It can sometimes help w/ Opiate/Opioid withdrawal.
-b
This is the end of the thread.
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