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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
I was wondering what everyone's experience has been re: their depression and/or symptoms getting worse or harder to deal with as they age.
I'm finding that my depressive episodes are more severe and longer-lasting as I get older. Medication seems more like a chemical band-aid than anything else.
Does this have anything to do with the type of mood disorder we are diagnosed with? Curious...
Thoughts?
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2012, at 12:33:20
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
I'm read in all seriousness that just about everything gets worse with age. But what age are we talking? If 40's those were my very best and most productive years and 20's, 30's also. Phillipa
Posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 12:55:11
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age? » Bryn B, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2012, at 12:33:20
thanks, philppa. I feel like I've seen/heard that depression and mentall illness usually tempers w/ age, so I don't know.
I just turned 38, and my depression has gotten worse and worse (started at 14, but only started meds in my 20s). Over the past several years, it's basically taken over.
I'm seeing a new pdoc on thurs and want to run it by him.
-b
Posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 13:10:27
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
i hope not bryn.
i am in first ever depressive episode. i am still hopeful that it will end at some point.
sorry that you are finding things harder. but, i also am beginning to believe that is the case in life as one gets older, depression or not.
losses, regrets, health issues, etc. these are all part of the life experience as we age.
have you tried talk therapy at all? i have found it mostly useless so far. but, i continue to go because the 'experts' say that is what i should be doing.
also, be careful here at babble. i mean this with respect; it can be toxic because people (like me) have been struggling for so long that it can really bring you down sometimes what people write. at the same time, the support is wonderful. i guess a catch-22 in many ways.
it scares me when i read about people that are 'lifers' when it comes to mental issues. that does not have to be everyone's experience.
hang-in there.
john
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 1, 2012, at 13:36:08
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
This is unfortunately quite common, particularly with bipolar spectrum mood disorders. Is this a diagnosis that you have explored? I myself was just diagnosed bipolar II after years if misdiagnosis as treatment resistant depression. Correct diagnosis will help guide treatment, so it is worth exploring with your pdoc. I like the website psycheduction.org for info on bipolar II.
Best,
EE
Posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 16:10:58
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 1, 2012, at 13:36:08
thanks for the helpful feedback.
emily, I am seeing a new pdoc this week in the hopes that he'll help me with a correct diagnosis and a proper med regimen (though I don't necessarily care what the "label" is, it might help explain things and point me in the right direction). I put a lot of research in finding the "right" one, so fingers crossed.
I too was diagnosed with mdd w/ general anxiety or nos, and have been told many times that I may (or may not) have bi 2. it's really frustrating, esp as I haven't felt well or been in remission for awhile now, which is why I'm taking a new approach, keeping an open mind, and seeing someone new.
many thanks.
Posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2012, at 17:55:47
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
I think depression does get worse with age. Scanning hundreds of articles on pubmed over the years, the general trend looks to me the older the age the better response to norepinephrine/dopamine strategies rather than ssri strategies.
Some people get a full effect but a lot of us get only the band aid effect at best. Imo the best way to improve that is to help the body in all ways possible, and taking herbs that counter some of the common causes of symptoms. If a med switch is needed, then try to see if there are any clues or common denominators with other med trials you did, maybe try a different category of ADs.
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2012, at 20:34:27
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 13:10:27
John your first depression and ECT? Something just doesn't sound right. Unless you feel you were really kind of extra energy before. Could it be the first dip in a bipolar diagnosis? Thinking as I read? Phillipa
Posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 23:17:31
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age? » johnLA, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2012, at 20:34:27
>John your first depression and ECT? Something just doesn't sound right. Unless you feel you were really kind of extra energy before. Could it be the first dip in a bipolar diagnosis? Thinking as I read? Phillipa
sorry bryn. don't want to hijack your thread...
phillipa-
yes, i still can't believe i had ect 2 months in to my first depressive episode. but, w/out going in to too much detail due to this being bryn's thread i was hospitalized twice for suicidal thoughts in those first 2 months. i suffered many losses over 2009/2010 and i think i was also reacting very strongly (akathisia) to the multiple meds the doctors were throwing at me. i wish i knew then what i know now. i was literally going-out of my mind. and, i think it was a combination of stress and med side-effects. just the akathisia was a nightmare on its own.
no sleep, lost 30 pounds in 2 months. just thinking back to it makes me uneasy. i was at ucla the 2nd hospitalization. i would have given anything for the pain to stop. i was scared. i never had had a suicidal thought in my life before. i was 'sold' on ect and bought-in to it. unfortunately it didn't work. i often wonder if they had given a huge amount of benzos to calm me down or zyprexa or something similar how things would have turned-out.
i have taken several tests for depression and bipolar. there were a few items on the bipolar test that hit home, but not many. i scored very low on these bipolar tests. also, when i tell a doctor my history they are like 'wow, you got hit by a lot of stress in a short period of time.'
still, w/all the bipolar talk today on the board i'll ask my doc about it a bit more this week.
thnx for looking after me phillipa.
john
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 5:11:01
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
> I was wondering what everyone's experience has been re: their depression and/or symptoms getting worse or harder to deal with as they age.
>
> I'm finding that my depressive episodes are more severe and longer-lasting as I get older. Medication seems more like a chemical band-aid than anything else.
>
> Does this have anything to do with the type of mood disorder we are diagnosed with? Curious...
>
> Thoughts?
Depression also tends to change in its symptom profile with age. It becomes less of sadness and depressed mood and more of cognitive and memory impairments. Of course, this is a generalization that doesn't fit every case.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 5:23:33
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by bleauberry on July 1, 2012, at 17:55:47
> I think depression does get worse with age. Scanning hundreds of articles on pubmed over the years, the general trend looks to me the older the age the better response to norepinephrine/dopamine strategies rather than ssri strategies
That's a great observation.
Do you think that it is possible that as one ages with depression, the number of prior exposures to SSRIs accumulates fastest, leading to one's treatment resistence to them? After all, poop-out with SSRIs is more common than with any other type of AD. Yet, they are used first, and their subsequent effectiveness greatly reduced.
Alternatively...
It would be informative to investigate a cohort of older people who are suffering their first episode of depression. Perhaps there is a difference in the psychobiology and treatment response of late life onset depression. Unfortunately, the risk of developing Alzheimers Dementia increases greatly in such cases.
- Scott
Posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 9:00:02
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age? » Bryn B, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 5:11:01
scott-
interesting that it presents differently. I was more angry/irritable/impulsive as a teen. in hindsight, that seems bipolar (or just teenage angst!). I didnt seek treatment until my 20s/college when I started having breakdowns.
now, in my late 30s, my symptoms are all over the board, but more importantly I just don't function anymore. I teach and write, and was teaching pt until a couple of weeks ago and just couldn't continue. I now have the sadness/depressed mood w/ anxiety AND memory impairments. no doubt years of benzos (a lot of benzos) and other meds added to the memory loss.
sorry to over share. it's been really hard and people who havent experienced this simply don't get it. Its affected my family greatly.
thanks,
b
Posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 9:05:19
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by johnLA on July 1, 2012, at 23:17:31
no worries john :). I find it very helpful to compare how other people in the same or similar situations react/feel/find relief, etc. sorry you've had so much all at once.
Posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 11:46:43
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age? » johnLA, posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 9:05:19
thnx bryn.
sometimes threads can take a life of their own and the original poster gets forgotten.
i'm curious; what did you teach? :)
i was a teacher for 26 years. i am so hoping to get back to it in some form. it was one of my greatest joys.
john
Posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 12:08:03
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 11:46:43
I taught high school English (and filled in for history when needed).
how about you?
most recently I was teaching at an alternative hs here in manhattan. I loved it; less than 5 kids in a class, many with issues ranging from emotional to substance abuse. I so easily related and felt like I was doing something important, ya know? unfortunately, being that I've been in such a bad state, my absences were excessive. I even started weeping in front of a class recently, which is so embarrassing, but I just couldn't stop. told 'em it was allergies and that my eyes were stinging. needless to say, high schoolers, especially those with problems, know better.
probably should've messaged you, oh well!
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 12:20:40
In reply to @john » johnLA, posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 12:08:03
John and Bryn,
I guess I'm particularly tearful today. Both of your stories about teaching really moved me and made me sad that your passions have been stolen away from you by such malignant brain disorders. I hope you both find successful treatments and return to the most important of all professions.
- Scott
Posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 13:21:51
In reply to @john » johnLA, posted by Bryn B on July 2, 2012, at 12:08:03
bryn;
do you have an english degree? if you do, i have a couple of questions for you.
i only taught the 'coolest' classes at my school! ;)
12th grade ap art history, film history and music history. everyone got an A and they all still learned learned. not to brag, but there was a lottery to get into my class. i was also voted 'most inspirational teacher' for many years and was actually humble about that as well. (until now!) i'm thinking it was mostly the 'easy' A's. ha! really though, the classes were quite unique and i was lucky in that i had awesome kids and the subjects were just so different than most of their other classes. no tests. just journals and amazing discussions where i learned just as much as the kids.
i also took 40 to 50 students to italy every spring break and i even did a few private boat trips thru the greek islands (where i come from) a few summers. life was good.
i loved my work because i LOVED art, music and film and the kids and learning from them. now, i have severe anhedonia and can't 'feel' the emotions i used to feel for these. so strange. i'm scared about living like this the rest of my life. what's the point if their is no pleasure in life?
i tried to go back and teach last year and just couldn't do it. i never 'faked' it in front of the kids. couldn't start now.
i had many students go on to college as art, film and music majors. that also made my self-esteem pretty good. i never realized that until i stopped working.
25+ years is a long time though. and, i realize i may have been in a mild depression for several years before everything came crashing down in 2010.
i have dreams about being back in my class teaching. hoping that can happen again someday.
meanwhile, a new private one-on-one school has opened near me. students with similar issues to what you taught. if i can get a bit better i'm thinking maybe that's where i might go for 'rehab' so to speak. ;)
there is a poster here named 'ihatedrugs' who is also a teacher. she is a positive person here on the boards. hope you get a chance to communicate with her too.
good to get to know you bryn.
john
Posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 13:27:06
In reply to @john @bryn, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 12:20:40
god bless you scott.
thanks for your kind words. sorry for the tears. i know all about that to my friend. but!...
we are gonna get better. remember when i first met you...
'the greatest warriors are time and patience.' leo tolstoy
thnx again scott
Posted by Bryn B. on July 2, 2012, at 15:51:13
In reply to @john @bryn, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 12:20:40
Posted by Bryn B. on July 2, 2012, at 16:35:01
In reply to @bryn, posted by johnLA on July 2, 2012, at 13:21:51
hey john-
your classes sound great (all of my favorite topics)! i have a bachelors in english and a masters in literacy. kids are pretty perceptive, regardless of age. they pick up on "faking it" as much as they respond positively to engaging, passion-fueled lessons and discussions.
as for the anhedonia, yeah, well...sigh. i've been doing a lot of research this time around, and compiled extensive notes on meds, observations, my history, etc. which i'm going to address when meeting a new pdoc on thurs. one thing i've learned is how important it is to be educated about this illness, and how necessary it is to have a good doc who actually listens. seems basic but it makes a big difference. i'm finding this board to be (generally) very helpful too--good info and support.
i recently started taking tramadol for pain and found that it works wonders on my mood (as in gets-me-out-of-bed-and-into-the-shower-and-even-out-of-my-apartment). when i mentioned this to a pdoc who i've seen on and off for a couple of years, he quickly snapped "it's not a psych drug; i don't/won't prescribe it." personally, i don't care if it's for pain, blood pressure or whatever; if it works (and doesn't have nasty side effects or cause other problems), then it's fine by me. the "out of the box" approach was a big factor in my finding a new doc. i'm hopeful he'll be a good fit.
feel free to message me, and please do keep me posted on how you're doing. i'll do the same.
oh, and as far as tolstoy goes, well, you can't really argue with tolstoy ;)...
-b
Posted by creepy on July 3, 2012, at 8:56:49
In reply to Depression that worsens with age?, posted by Bryn B on July 1, 2012, at 10:21:32
some pdocs might suggest that pattern is like a mild version of BPII.. cyclothymia.
Mood swings that kindle more frequent and deeper swings.
Posted by Bryn B on July 4, 2012, at 17:28:51
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age?, posted by creepy on July 3, 2012, at 8:56:49
that makes sense. I'm thinking I def fall somewhere on the bi spectrum, tho' I always thought I had mdd w gad. bipolar would explain the severity of my lows, the irritability, the ad poop-out (always), and a recent med-induced manic episode (Neurontin, go figure). thanks for the input...
Posted by bleauberry on July 5, 2012, at 17:45:29
In reply to Re: Depression that worsens with age? » bleauberry, posted by SLS on July 2, 2012, at 5:23:33
I don't know Scott. What you say is very interesting. I have no doubt prior ssri usage plays a role. Without evidence I suspect the NE/DA systems are more vulnerable to damage, alteration, or decline than the serotonin system. I am not in the camp that believes serotonin is the major player in most cases of depression, so it could be patients are not getting an opportunity to try anything different than ssris until later in life. ???
> > I think depression does get worse with age. Scanning hundreds of articles on pubmed over the years, the general trend looks to me the older the age the better response to norepinephrine/dopamine strategies rather than ssri strategies
>
> That's a great observation.
>
> Do you think that it is possible that as one ages with depression, the number of prior exposures to SSRIs accumulates fastest, leading to one's treatment resistence to them? After all, poop-out with SSRIs is more common than with any other type of AD. Yet, they are used first, and their subsequent effectiveness greatly reduced.
>
> Alternatively...
>
> It would be informative to investigate a cohort of older people who are suffering their first episode of depression. Perhaps there is a difference in the psychobiology and treatment response of late life onset depression. Unfortunately, the risk of developing Alzheimers Dementia increases greatly in such cases.
>
>
> - Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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