Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1019315

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

What's The Purpose?

Posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

So we keep trying new meds, maybe we make a little progress, maybe we get another failure, maybe we get remission. But for sure we have no choice but to keep trying.

So the purpose for meds is obvious.

What is not obvious to me is, why JUST meds? Or, why ONLY meds? I think this is one of the great deceptions of our time. People get trapped in the psychiatrist's toolbox and it closes off all the other healing possibilities on the face of the earth. I know it sounds bizarre to people who don't know, but seriously chronic illnnesses of all kinds are improved by a variety of tools ranging from herbs to supplements to yoga to prayer to food choices and more.

Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so? It's sort of like the Las Vegas table....we see someone else win a jackpot so we think we are next in line to do the same, but we keep losing. Las Vegas is very seductive and so are meds.

Examples. Someone has bizarre morning anxiety, mid afternoon sinking spell, but their lexapro or whatever is generally keeping them afloat better than they were before. Ok. Well in this case the simple addition of rhodiola ended all the crap and made the lexapro work better as well. Someone else failed all sorts of combos, but years later we see that person doing pretty good and they are only taking a small dose of a med and a couple herbs and they do Zumba a few times a week. Another person didn't realize their foods were not doing them any favors, and with a slow transition to new food choices they feel enough improvement to not want to go back to the old foods. Ya know, many many stories like these. Or in my case, antibiotics do more antidepressant than antidepressants do.

The greater question is, what's the purpose? The purpose of life? The purpose of this suffering? The purpose of joy? The purpose of winning and losing? Pretty simple actually. The purpose is to walk with God and get to know Him. We may think we are here to reproduce and have children, to improve the world, to make a difference, to have a great career, etc....but none of those are correct. The purpose is to walk with God. This is only a short stay on earth. We only get so many opportunities to see and experience His glory and marvel, which is so profound the human brain does not even have the machinery to comprehend or imagine the greatest. If we do not purposely ask for this sort of walk with God, since he is not a forceful God but welcomes volunteers, we have to ask. We are not puppets on a string. He gave us free will for a reason...to either chose Him or to not choose Him.

The sooner we do that on an hourly, daily, basis, the sooner we find new wisdom to deal with our situations, the sooner we find relief to go on another day, the sooner we find our place of contentment. Some of God's bible guys never got healed. But in their journeys they came to know and love him deeply, knowing that even though the suffering was still there, it would be much worse and certain death without Him. If pain is the only way we will lift our heads to find Him, then that pain is for a good purpose. On the other hand, miraculous healings do still happen, and unexplained improvements do happen.

The most important thing is wisdom. We all individually need a supernaturally given wisdom to figure out what to do. He said to all who ask for wisdom He shall give it. To not choose Him means if you get well it will be by your own hand and your own research. To choose Him means if you get well you had all kinds of wisdom you don't know where it came from, "coincidences" that were in your favor, and what nonbelievers would call "good luck".

So maybe in my walk with God through life someone needs prozac or lexapro or zyprexa or whatever. Cool. It's the walk that matters. If the med helps us keep an eye on the importance of that, cool. If it does not, it's a bad med. See, the evil ones want nothing more than to keep you and me distracted from the real purpose of life. And meds make a handy deceptive way to do that. Meds can be jewels of life, and they can be keys to a permanent eternal coffin, depending on how we walk.

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by AlexanderS on June 6, 2012, at 9:58:14

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

I'm buddhist, now what?

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by SLS on June 6, 2012, at 10:14:18

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose?, posted by AlexanderS on June 6, 2012, at 9:58:14

> I'm buddhist, now what?

The path you walk is probably quite satisfying.

I see life as being its own purpose. I find beauty, order, and purpose in almost everything around me. So, what, then, is the purpose of my suffering? I don't know. I don't really care. My best path in life is to choose to use all of what little I have to work with and consider those things as being gifts. That my illness may not be a thing of beauty to me does not hamper my efforts to see beauty in everything else.

Of course, I am not speaking for anyone but myself.


- Scott

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » bleauberry

Posted by SLS on June 6, 2012, at 10:16:17

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

> Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so?

Where are you looking?


- Scott

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » bleauberry

Posted by SLS on June 6, 2012, at 10:18:25

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

> > Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so?

> Where are you looking?


Never mind.

You can keep your pessimism.


- Scott

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by novelagent on June 6, 2012, at 10:20:37

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

While I'm Christian now, there was time until rather recently I would have rolled my eyes at this post... but there was a recent study that found religious people were more likely to be optimists, and that just makes sense-- they have more wholesome perspective, especially when it comes to processing challenging episodes in life.

It's also important to keep in mind docs don't balk at what their predecessors use to do-- which was prescribe, in addition to maybe a barbituate, mostly the combination of a hobby of interest to the patient, along with a wholesome, healthy diet.

We now know that CBT works wonders for depression, in part because it asks people who are depressed to inventory what tasks in their day they genuinely find rewarding and what task they don't. I did this when I was depressed, and it made sense all of a sudden how I became depressed. I had been forcing myself to endure so many tasks that I didn't inherently enjoy, and did too little of what I knew I did enjoy.

As a doctor once told me, "meds go half way-- CBT does the rest." They will repair your brain just enough so you can travel with a tire that has just enough life on it to get you to a repair shop, but if you manage to pass the repair shop on your journey, you can't expect a full recovery.

One needs a wholesome diet, a hobby they genuinely enjoy and look forward to doing every so often, and in short, something to live for. If that's God, that's great. If that's golf, more power to you-- I'm not here to evangelize. It's up to the individual to have meaning.


If anything, it's an insult to the medication's potential to take it without an adjustment in one's life that truly appreciates the fact the med isn't an excuse to go on auto-pilot in life. That's not what the purpose of meds are, and if that's the intent someone has with a med, they will never recover.


> So we keep trying new meds, maybe we make a little progress, maybe we get another failure, maybe we get remission. But for sure we have no choice but to keep trying.
>
> So the purpose for meds is obvious.
>
> What is not obvious to me is, why JUST meds? Or, why ONLY meds? I think this is one of the great deceptions of our time. People get trapped in the psychiatrist's toolbox and it closes off all the other healing possibilities on the face of the earth. I know it sounds bizarre to people who don't know, but seriously chronic illnnesses of all kinds are improved by a variety of tools ranging from herbs to supplements to yoga to prayer to food choices and more.
>
> Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so? It's sort of like the Las Vegas table....we see someone else win a jackpot so we think we are next in line to do the same, but we keep losing. Las Vegas is very seductive and so are meds.
>
> Examples. Someone has bizarre morning anxiety, mid afternoon sinking spell, but their lexapro or whatever is generally keeping them afloat better than they were before. Ok. Well in this case the simple addition of rhodiola ended all the crap and made the lexapro work better as well. Someone else failed all sorts of combos, but years later we see that person doing pretty good and they are only taking a small dose of a med and a couple herbs and they do Zumba a few times a week. Another person didn't realize their foods were not doing them any favors, and with a slow transition to new food choices they feel enough improvement to not want to go back to the old foods. Ya know, many many stories like these. Or in my case, antibiotics do more antidepressant than antidepressants do.
>
> The greater question is, what's the purpose? The purpose of life? The purpose of this suffering? The purpose of joy? The purpose of winning and losing? Pretty simple actually. The purpose is to walk with God and get to know Him. We may think we are here to reproduce and have children, to improve the world, to make a difference, to have a great career, etc....but none of those are correct. The purpose is to walk with God. This is only a short stay on earth. We only get so many opportunities to see and experience His glory and marvel, which is so profound the human brain does not even have the machinery to comprehend or imagine the greatest. If we do not purposely ask for this sort of walk with God, since he is not a forceful God but welcomes volunteers, we have to ask. We are not puppets on a string. He gave us free will for a reason...to either chose Him or to not choose Him.
>
> The sooner we do that on an hourly, daily, basis, the sooner we find new wisdom to deal with our situations, the sooner we find relief to go on another day, the sooner we find our place of contentment. Some of God's bible guys never got healed. But in their journeys they came to know and love him deeply, knowing that even though the suffering was still there, it would be much worse and certain death without Him. If pain is the only way we will lift our heads to find Him, then that pain is for a good purpose. On the other hand, miraculous healings do still happen, and unexplained improvements do happen.
>
> The most important thing is wisdom. We all individually need a supernaturally given wisdom to figure out what to do. He said to all who ask for wisdom He shall give it. To not choose Him means if you get well it will be by your own hand and your own research. To choose Him means if you get well you had all kinds of wisdom you don't know where it came from, "coincidences" that were in your favor, and what nonbelievers would call "good luck".
>
> So maybe in my walk with God through life someone needs prozac or lexapro or zyprexa or whatever. Cool. It's the walk that matters. If the med helps us keep an eye on the importance of that, cool. If it does not, it's a bad med. See, the evil ones want nothing more than to keep you and me distracted from the real purpose of life. And meds make a handy deceptive way to do that. Meds can be jewels of life, and they can be keys to a permanent eternal coffin, depending on how we walk.
>
>

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by Phillipa on June 6, 2012, at 10:27:56

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » bleauberry, posted by SLS on June 6, 2012, at 10:18:25

I don't know is it pessimism or reality one that doctors don't want to see. I digress and go back to inflammation. It seriously seems to be what is the basic of most of my problems. As yesterday two motrin lifted my mood, relieved my back pain, and I felt more optimistic. Seems I am dreading seeing any docs are the are trained to give a med. I kind of think the pdoc seening now is on the right track take less not more. Although I dread seeing him as it's always the same. I do think thought that some good research on inflammation might lead to some answers. I also base this on the fact that my lymes is positive for 6 bands of borrelia sp? and no doc will address it yet I have all these inflammatory things such as ecezema in a few spots that is new and motrin relieves them so there has to be a connection. I tried zyflamend but stopped it as not sure if safe or not. Phillipa

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » bleauberry

Posted by europerep on June 6, 2012, at 15:35:43

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

I see more people finding remission with meds than with Jesus, or Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I respect your right to have your own beliefs, but this is a med forum, i.e. a forum for discussing evidence-based pharmacological treatments, not spiritual nonsense that makes you look like a deep thinker.

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by novelagent on June 6, 2012, at 15:48:50

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » bleauberry, posted by europerep on June 6, 2012, at 15:35:43

> I see more people finding remission with meds than with Jesus, or Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
>
> I respect your right to have your own beliefs, but this is a med forum, i.e. a forum for discussing evidence-based pharmacological treatments, not spiritual nonsense that makes you look like a deep thinker.
>

The poster was questioning the practice of using medication without complementary approaches, which is relevant. I understand God makes you uncomfortable, but should your awkwardness with religious make you mean, too?

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » novelagent

Posted by Raisinb on June 6, 2012, at 15:51:05

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose?, posted by novelagent on June 6, 2012, at 10:20:37

Good post. For me it's always been the meds make it possible for me to begin the rough work of fixing my depressive habits of mind and lifestyle.

As for religion, I have read the studies and wish I believed in a higher power, as it seems to work for people. I just don't, and you cannot manufacture belief where it doesn't exist.

A wise friend of mine once said that it's only when you get depressed that you have to start asking about meaning and purpose. When you aren't the question doesn't occur to you; the answers are obvious.

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by emmanuel98 on June 6, 2012, at 20:17:54

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose?, posted by SLS on June 6, 2012, at 10:14:18

> > I'm buddhist, now what?
>
> The path you walk is probably quite satisfying.
>
> I see life as being its own purpose. I find beauty, order, and purpose in almost everything around me. So, what, then, is the purpose of my suffering? I don't know. I don't really care. My best path in life is to choose to use all of what little I have to work with and consider those things as being gifts. That my illness may not be a thing of beauty to me does not hamper my efforts to see beauty in everything else.
>
> Of course, I am not speaking for anyone but myself.
>
>
> - Scott

That is beautiful Scott. That's what I'm trying for. DBT has helped a lot in making me mindful and trying to find peace and acceptance.

 

Lou's response- » bleauberry

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 6, 2012, at 20:54:36

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

> So we keep trying new meds, maybe we make a little progress, maybe we get another failure, maybe we get remission. But for sure we have no choice but to keep trying.
>
> So the purpose for meds is obvious.
>
> What is not obvious to me is, why JUST meds? Or, why ONLY meds? I think this is one of the great deceptions of our time. People get trapped in the psychiatrist's toolbox and it closes off all the other healing possibilities on the face of the earth. I know it sounds bizarre to people who don't know, but seriously chronic illnnesses of all kinds are improved by a variety of tools ranging from herbs to supplements to yoga to prayer to food choices and more.
>
> Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so? It's sort of like the Las Vegas table....we see someone else win a jackpot so we think we are next in line to do the same, but we keep losing. Las Vegas is very seductive and so are meds.
>
> Examples. Someone has bizarre morning anxiety, mid afternoon sinking spell, but their lexapro or whatever is generally keeping them afloat better than they were before. Ok. Well in this case the simple addition of rhodiola ended all the crap and made the lexapro work better as well. Someone else failed all sorts of combos, but years later we see that person doing pretty good and they are only taking a small dose of a med and a couple herbs and they do Zumba a few times a week. Another person didn't realize their foods were not doing them any favors, and with a slow transition to new food choices they feel enough improvement to not want to go back to the old foods. Ya know, many many stories like these. Or in my case, antibiotics do more antidepressant than antidepressants do.
>
> The greater question is, what's the purpose? The purpose of life? The purpose of this suffering? The purpose of joy? The purpose of winning and losing? Pretty simple actually. The purpose is to walk with God and get to know Him. We may think we are here to reproduce and have children, to improve the world, to make a difference, to have a great career, etc....but none of those are correct. The purpose is to walk with God. This is only a short stay on earth. We only get so many opportunities to see and experience His glory and marvel, which is so profound the human brain does not even have the machinery to comprehend or imagine the greatest. If we do not purposely ask for this sort of walk with God, since he is not a forceful God but welcomes volunteers, we have to ask. We are not puppets on a string. He gave us free will for a reason...to either chose Him or to not choose Him.
>
> The sooner we do that on an hourly, daily, basis, the sooner we find new wisdom to deal with our situations, the sooner we find relief to go on another day, the sooner we find our place of contentment. Some of God's bible guys never got healed. But in their journeys they came to know and love him deeply, knowing that even though the suffering was still there, it would be much worse and certain death without Him. If pain is the only way we will lift our heads to find Him, then that pain is for a good purpose. On the other hand, miraculous healings do still happen, and unexplained improvements do happen.
>
> The most important thing is wisdom. We all individually need a supernaturally given wisdom to figure out what to do. He said to all who ask for wisdom He shall give it. To not choose Him means if you get well it will be by your own hand and your own research. To choose Him means if you get well you had all kinds of wisdom you don't know where it came from, "coincidences" that were in your favor, and what nonbelievers would call "good luck".
>
> So maybe in my walk with God through life someone needs prozac or lexapro or zyprexa or whatever. Cool. It's the walk that matters. If the med helps us keep an eye on the importance of that, cool. If it does not, it's a bad med. See, the evil ones want nothing more than to keep you and me distracted from the real purpose of life. And meds make a handy deceptive way to do that. Meds can be jewels of life, and they can be keys to a permanent eternal coffin, depending on how we walk.
>
> bleau,
You wrote,[...one of the great deceptions of our time... in the psychiatrist's toolbox...closes off all the other healing pssibilities...to walk with God...meds make a hany deceptive way...a permanent eternal coffin...].

 

Lou's response-eeturnahldth

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 6, 2012, at 21:35:32

In reply to Lou's response- » bleauberry, posted by Lou Pilder on June 6, 2012, at 20:54:36

> > So we keep trying new meds, maybe we make a little progress, maybe we get another failure, maybe we get remission. But for sure we have no choice but to keep trying.
> >
> > So the purpose for meds is obvious.
> >
> > What is not obvious to me is, why JUST meds? Or, why ONLY meds? I think this is one of the great deceptions of our time. People get trapped in the psychiatrist's toolbox and it closes off all the other healing possibilities on the face of the earth. I know it sounds bizarre to people who don't know, but seriously chronic illnnesses of all kinds are improved by a variety of tools ranging from herbs to supplements to yoga to prayer to food choices and more.
> >
> > Rarely do I see people find remission with meds. My rough guess is maybe 10% or so? It's sort of like the Las Vegas table....we see someone else win a jackpot so we think we are next in line to do the same, but we keep losing. Las Vegas is very seductive and so are meds.
> >
> > Examples. Someone has bizarre morning anxiety, mid afternoon sinking spell, but their lexapro or whatever is generally keeping them afloat better than they were before. Ok. Well in this case the simple addition of rhodiola ended all the crap and made the lexapro work better as well. Someone else failed all sorts of combos, but years later we see that person doing pretty good and they are only taking a small dose of a med and a couple herbs and they do Zumba a few times a week. Another person didn't realize their foods were not doing them any favors, and with a slow transition to new food choices they feel enough improvement to not want to go back to the old foods. Ya know, many many stories like these. Or in my case, antibiotics do more antidepressant than antidepressants do.
> >
> > The greater question is, what's the purpose? The purpose of life? The purpose of this suffering? The purpose of joy? The purpose of winning and losing? Pretty simple actually. The purpose is to walk with God and get to know Him. We may think we are here to reproduce and have children, to improve the world, to make a difference, to have a great career, etc....but none of those are correct. The purpose is to walk with God. This is only a short stay on earth. We only get so many opportunities to see and experience His glory and marvel, which is so profound the human brain does not even have the machinery to comprehend or imagine the greatest. If we do not purposely ask for this sort of walk with God, since he is not a forceful God but welcomes volunteers, we have to ask. We are not puppets on a string. He gave us free will for a reason...to either chose Him or to not choose Him.
> >
> > The sooner we do that on an hourly, daily, basis, the sooner we find new wisdom to deal with our situations, the sooner we find relief to go on another day, the sooner we find our place of contentment. Some of God's bible guys never got healed. But in their journeys they came to know and love him deeply, knowing that even though the suffering was still there, it would be much worse and certain death without Him. If pain is the only way we will lift our heads to find Him, then that pain is for a good purpose. On the other hand, miraculous healings do still happen, and unexplained improvements do happen.
> >
> > The most important thing is wisdom. We all individually need a supernaturally given wisdom to figure out what to do. He said to all who ask for wisdom He shall give it. To not choose Him means if you get well it will be by your own hand and your own research. To choose Him means if you get well you had all kinds of wisdom you don't know where it came from, "coincidences" that were in your favor, and what nonbelievers would call "good luck".
> >
> > So maybe in my walk with God through life someone needs prozac or lexapro or zyprexa or whatever. Cool. It's the walk that matters. If the med helps us keep an eye on the importance of that, cool. If it does not, it's a bad med. See, the evil ones want nothing more than to keep you and me distracted from the real purpose of life. And meds make a handy deceptive way to do that. Meds can be jewels of life, and they can be keys to a permanent eternal coffin, depending on how we walk.
> >
> > bleau,
> You wrote,[...one of the great deceptions of our time... in the psychiatrist's toolbox...closes off all the other healing pssibilities...to walk with God...meds make a hany deceptive way...a permanent eternal coffin...].
>
> bleau,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the above. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What are some of the other great deceptions?
B. How do meds make a handy deceptive way?
C. What criteria do you use to that a person could be consigned to a permanent eternal coffin and who will be, or is in, those coffins?
Lou

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by Phil on June 6, 2012, at 22:13:24

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

A famous psychiatrist was working with an older lady with mild to moderate depression who mostly felt no purpose in life. The doctor was known for working with what he had.
He discovered that she loved baking. He said why don't you bake cupcakes and take to your church group on Sunday? It was an immediate tradition. It changed her life.

Unfortunately it's not that easy for most. ACOA meetings are helpful to me. My disorder may be genetic but helping take care of a very ill alcoholic parent from 7 years old through high school, triggered it. I've worked decades in therapy and in meetings to unlearn the defense mechanisms that saved me when I was young but still hold me back now.
I've been in many churches but I've never felt a spiritual presence with the intensity of a meeting. Listening to someone who's learning to trust at 40 finally tell their story to a roomful of others who know exactly how you feel is powerful and emotional.
The recovering alcoholics across the hall laugh a lot at some meanings. ACOA's aren't laughing.
Childhood abuse and neglect devastates a child's spirit and when they are finally on their own, they are beat down and exhausted and too tired to figure out how to live. I've heard stories that made my jaw hit the floor. Ok, I'll stop this ramble after this. Every other meeting or so, as I watched the people coming in, I would notice one person with a big smile...the smiling mask. They were always the one in the worst pain that night. Still trying to look normal, but they look anything but.
I've lived this for 58 years and it is always with me. God knows I try and this God inside me understands that some days I have to just hold on with both hands so I may not shake his.
I don't just pop pills, I've gotten this far through blood, sweat and tears. Just like everyone else on the forum. The job is never done.

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » Phil

Posted by SLS on June 7, 2012, at 1:46:19

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose?, posted by Phil on June 6, 2012, at 22:13:24

Hi Phil.

I am very sorry for your loss.

> Childhood abuse and neglect devastates a child's spirit

Yes. I totally agree with you.

This describes very accurately my childhood experience. Such a scenario results in developmental PTSD. While I was a research patient at the NIH, I scored very high on the "prisoner of war" sub scale of the MMPI. My doctors found it remarkable.

I found this article interesting as an introduction to the phenomenon of developmental PTSD.


----------------------------------------------------

http://www.positivehumandevelopment.com/developmental-ptsd.html

"Neglect, emotional, physical and sexual abuses have all demonstrated detrimental impacts on the developing brain. Countless empirical studies in neuroscience, psychology, and medicine have been able to demonstrate distinct consequences to brain maturational processes involving executive functions, emotional regulation, fear-response systems, attentional capacity, learning systems, and social cognition."

----------------------------------------------------


Am I to understand that the chronic abuse and neglect experienced in childhood influences the psychobiology of the developing brain in such a way as to render an individual depressed and emotionally dysregulated?

Question: Once chronic pathological psychosocial stressors alter the development of a growing brains structure and function in children and adolescents, do these altered neurodynamics persist to become entrained and self-reinforcing?. Does this dysregulation of brain circuitry persist, even when the psychosocial stressors are removed through psychotherapeutics? In other words, does the pathological brain that results from developmental PTSD establish persistent altered patterns of dysfunctional psychodynamics. Once these dynamics are corrected through psychotherapy, that which remains is the deeply entrenched set of neurobiological aberrations and dysfunctional interactions between systems that are often beyond the awareness of the patient and can bear little resemblance to the original traumas. Among the presentations that developmental PTSD can display is chronic depression possibly evaluated as being TRD. The chronically assaulted and altered brain comes to act autonomously to produce depression and anxiety in the absence of environmental stressors. (kindling?). Is adult PTSD plastic? I dont know. It seems more elastic to me. However, I think that early intervention in neglected and abused children can profit from the plasticity of the young, developing brain.

> and when they are finally on their own, they are beat down and exhausted and too tired to figure out how to live

The world was too big for me. I was unprepared to navigate it. I was overwhelmed. My psyche was too involuted for any psychotherapist to penetrate. Fortunately, I was able to developed a healthier mind through reductionist deconstruction, followed by the rebuilding of my psyche from the ground up. It remains an ongoing process. I like to think of my goal as a human being to attain self-actualization

Is the bottom line regarding developmental PTSD-depression that it eventually becomes free-running through the induction of persistent biological changes, and is no longer dependent upon psychosocial stress in order to manifest?


- Scott

 

Re: What's The Purpose?

Posted by topcatclr on June 7, 2012, at 10:26:40

In reply to What's The Purpose?, posted by bleauberry on June 6, 2012, at 9:28:32

They work fine for me!

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » SLS

Posted by Phil on June 7, 2012, at 11:53:14

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » Phil, posted by SLS on June 7, 2012, at 1:46:19

Is the bottom line regarding developmental PTSD-depression that it eventually becomes free-running through the induction of persistent biological changes, and is no longer dependent upon psychosocial stress in order to manifest?

Yes!!! Long post again......longest post I've ever written here. :)

Scott, have you ever noticed a lot of similarities in our journey?

My mom got sober when I was 22. I was her biggest supporter and we were very close. But before that, like when I went to college for a year in a half, if I was having a great time with friends I'd flashback to what my mother was surely going through. I'd get depressed. For much of my life I felt that her happiness was my job. My focus was her not me. When I started therapy in my late 20s I found out how totally skewed my thinking was. The therapist promptly summoned a psychiatrist. The journey began.

I'll tell you one story of many that have by and large have made me look to anything except Christianity. A lady spoke one night. Her mother and father were missionaries, spreading the word of the Christian God. I have no problem with that. But, while they were doing God's work, they put her and her brother in the States care, foster homes, whatever. She was so f*cked up, angry, confused, and totally alone in her experience. If I ever met her parents, they should pray that I don't have a baseball bat. I was goddamned angry.

I'm technically a Christian. In my mid thirties I read CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity(a great book to read just to see his genius). I was having a hard time. Started going to a big, conservative Southern Baptist church. They were televised and I really liked the preacher...good guy. I got Baptized. Me grandmother would have been proud. I lasted about a year before I realized that the huge majority of people in church are not there for any intrinsic purpose. They just go to church cause that's what they do. For some, it's to show off their wardrobe. Many go for business connections.
I'm not the one who said this, CS Lewis did. I was truly there to learn and I did meet a handful of people that were on the same journey.
Maybe because of a mood shift coupled with my observations I got out.
The God of the Bible is a caricature and quite evil(Job). Still I love some passages in the King James version of the Bible. If I ever darken another church door it will be one of the many liberal church's here in Austin. But again, my God is inside of me and I find him in fellow sufferers.
Personally, I have big problems with the church's view on homosexuality. Where I come from we're all God's children. I have many gay and lesbian friends who are open and good. Not like priests of the most dysfunctional church in the world, Catholic. When priests molest young boys and the church just sends them to another parish to take the heat off. All of it is hush-hush with policies coming straight from the Vatican.
Adam and Eve, a garden, a talking snake, an apple and a rib started the human race? Do I look stupid to you?
Virgin birth? If your young neighbor got pregnant and told you she was a virgin and that God made this happen. Would anyone today believe that? Well, today is no different from a few thousand years ago.
Can a God demand your praise and has a love for you that is incomprehensible turn around and send you to burn in hell for eternity for breaking one of his ten rules?
I think that there is some kind of God above the dysfunctional one the Bible portrays. A God above God. But. it's none of the BS about being made in man's image and answers a trillion of prayers a day.
Couple of other things. Jews go to hell because they don't buy the fairy tale. No matter how many good deeds I do in my life, if I don't acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God, I'm going south too.
Lastly, whatever God you worship, if it makes you happy and fulfilled, I honestly am happy for you.
But for church's big and small asking for money that you were taxed on to help their tax free status to do things like send missionaries to all corners of the earth, well, you know my view on missionaries. Phew!

 

Re: What's The Purpose? » Phil

Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2012, at 19:26:20

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » SLS, posted by Phil on June 7, 2012, at 11:53:14

Phil excellent and my feeling are the same as yours. Thanks I needed to hear that I'm not the only one who feels the same way and I'm vocal and then ridiculed because this is my belief. Show me the proof. I am a concrete person. Phillipa

 

Lou's request-dheynjurtujuz » Phil

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 9, 2012, at 18:12:27

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » SLS, posted by Phil on June 7, 2012, at 11:53:14

> Is the bottom line regarding developmental PTSD-depression that it eventually becomes free-running through the induction of persistent biological changes, and is no longer dependent upon psychosocial stress in order to manifest?
>
> Yes!!! Long post again......longest post I've ever written here. :)
>
> Scott, have you ever noticed a lot of similarities in our journey?
>
> My mom got sober when I was 22. I was her biggest supporter and we were very close. But before that, like when I went to college for a year in a half, if I was having a great time with friends I'd flashback to what my mother was surely going through. I'd get depressed. For much of my life I felt that her happiness was my job. My focus was her not me. When I started therapy in my late 20s I found out how totally skewed my thinking was. The therapist promptly summoned a psychiatrist. The journey began.
>
> I'll tell you one story of many that have by and large have made me look to anything except Christianity. A lady spoke one night. Her mother and father were missionaries, spreading the word of the Christian God. I have no problem with that. But, while they were doing God's work, they put her and her brother in the States care, foster homes, whatever. She was so f*cked up, angry, confused, and totally alone in her experience. If I ever met her parents, they should pray that I don't have a baseball bat. I was goddamned angry.
>
> I'm technically a Christian. In my mid thirties I read CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity(a great book to read just to see his genius). I was having a hard time. Started going to a big, conservative Southern Baptist church. They were televised and I really liked the preacher...good guy. I got Baptized. Me grandmother would have been proud. I lasted about a year before I realized that the huge majority of people in church are not there for any intrinsic purpose. They just go to church cause that's what they do. For some, it's to show off their wardrobe. Many go for business connections.
> I'm not the one who said this, CS Lewis did. I was truly there to learn and I did meet a handful of people that were on the same journey.
> Maybe because of a mood shift coupled with my observations I got out.
> The God of the Bible is a caricature and quite evil(Job). Still I love some passages in the King James version of the Bible. If I ever darken another church door it will be one of the many liberal church's here in Austin. But again, my God is inside of me and I find him in fellow sufferers.
> Personally, I have big problems with the church's view on homosexuality. Where I come from we're all God's children. I have many gay and lesbian friends who are open and good. Not like priests of the most dysfunctional church in the world, Catholic. When priests molest young boys and the church just sends them to another parish to take the heat off. All of it is hush-hush with policies coming straight from the Vatican.
> Adam and Eve, a garden, a talking snake, an apple and a rib started the human race? Do I look stupid to you?
> Virgin birth? If your young neighbor got pregnant and told you she was a virgin and that God made this happen. Would anyone today believe that? Well, today is no different from a few thousand years ago.
> Can a God demand your praise and has a love for you that is incomprehensible turn around and send you to burn in hell for eternity for breaking one of his ten rules?
> I think that there is some kind of God above the dysfunctional one the Bible portrays. A God above God. But. it's none of the BS about being made in man's image and answers a trillion of prayers a day.
> Couple of other things. Jews go to hell because they don't buy the fairy tale. No matter how many good deeds I do in my life, if I don't acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God, I'm going south too.
> Lastly, whatever God you worship, if it makes you happy and fulfilled, I honestly am happy for you.
> But for church's big and small asking for money that you were taxed on to help their tax free status to do things like send missionaries to all corners of the earth, well, you know my view on missionaries. Phew!

Phil,
You wrote,[...the God of the bible is a xxx and quite yyy...]and,[...the dysfunctional one...]and,[...BS about...],and[...Jews go to xxx...]

 

Lou's response-

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 11, 2012, at 20:36:44

In reply to Re: What's The Purpose? » SLS, posted by Phil on June 7, 2012, at 11:53:14

> Is the bottom line regarding developmental PTSD-depression that it eventually becomes free-running through the induction of persistent biological changes, and is no longer dependent upon psychosocial stress in order to manifest?
>
> Yes!!! Long post again......longest post I've ever written here. :)
>
> Scott, have you ever noticed a lot of similarities in our journey?
>
> My mom got sober when I was 22. I was her biggest supporter and we were very close. But before that, like when I went to college for a year in a half, if I was having a great time with friends I'd flashback to what my mother was surely going through. I'd get depressed. For much of my life I felt that her happiness was my job. My focus was her not me. When I started therapy in my late 20s I found out how totally skewed my thinking was. The therapist promptly summoned a psychiatrist. The journey began.
>
> I'll tell you one story of many that have by and large have made me look to anything except Christianity. A lady spoke one night. Her mother and father were missionaries, spreading the word of the Christian God. I have no problem with that. But, while they were doing God's work, they put her and her brother in the States care, foster homes, whatever. She was so f*cked up, angry, confused, and totally alone in her experience. If I ever met her parents, they should pray that I don't have a baseball bat. I was goddamned angry.
>
> I'm technically a Christian. In my mid thirties I read CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity(a great book to read just to see his genius). I was having a hard time. Started going to a big, conservative Southern Baptist church. They were televised and I really liked the preacher...good guy. I got Baptized. Me grandmother would have been proud. I lasted about a year before I realized that the huge majority of people in church are not there for any intrinsic purpose. They just go to church cause that's what they do. For some, it's to show off their wardrobe. Many go for business connections.
> I'm not the one who said this, CS Lewis did. I was truly there to learn and I did meet a handful of people that were on the same journey.
> Maybe because of a mood shift coupled with my observations I got out.
> The God of the Bible is a caricature and quite evil(Job). Still I love some passages in the King James version of the Bible. If I ever darken another church door it will be one of the many liberal church's here in Austin. But again, my God is inside of me and I find him in fellow sufferers.
> Personally, I have big problems with the church's view on homosexuality. Where I come from we're all God's children. I have many gay and lesbian friends who are open and good. Not like priests of the most dysfunctional church in the world, Catholic. When priests molest young boys and the church just sends them to another parish to take the heat off. All of it is hush-hush with policies coming straight from the Vatican.
> Adam and Eve, a garden, a talking snake, an apple and a rib started the human race? Do I look stupid to you?
> Virgin birth? If your young neighbor got pregnant and told you she was a virgin and that God made this happen. Would anyone today believe that? Well, today is no different from a few thousand years ago.
> Can a God demand your praise and has a love for you that is incomprehensible turn around and send you to burn in hell for eternity for breaking one of his ten rules?
> I think that there is some kind of God above the dysfunctional one the Bible portrays. A God above God. But. it's none of the BS about being made in man's image and answers a trillion of prayers a day.
> Couple of other things. Jews go to hell because they don't buy the fairy tale. No matter how many good deeds I do in my life, if I don't acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God, I'm going south too.
> Lastly, whatever God you worship, if it makes you happy and fulfilled, I honestly am happy for you.
> But for church's big and small asking for money that you were taxed on to help their tax free status to do things like send missionaries to all corners of the earth, well, you know my view on missionaries. Phew!

Friends,
It is written here,[...Adam and Eve, a garden, a talking snake, an apple and a rib started the human race. Do I look xxx to you?...].
Now I agree that the book that those topics appear in that the Jews use in their scriptures, could cause one to doubt it's content. For one, there are symbols in the book, which is called Genesis. Then there is allagory and other literary devices. But the book can be understood when the other books that the Jews use in their scriptures are known and understood.
Now the book is connected to most of the other books, for the word genesis means origin. And in the biginning there is one great concept that I have been talking about here. A concept that I think could mark the difference of your being alive or dead. A concept that could change and renew your mind, a concept that could flood your heart with truth that could set those in bondage free. A concept that could give healing and Eternal Life. A concept that could give you a way to escape the wrath that you may find one day and give you the power to overcome, to overcome the world, to overcome death.
You see, my friends,the book describes the biginning as in darkness, without life. And then it is said, "Let there be light". And the light appeard as a sun in the day, the day star. This light dispelled the darkness and life then came upon the earth.
And if we are in darkness and death, we can be made alive by the light, the light of a different sun, a sun that shines in the heart of man and brings life to the soul, the Sun of righteousness with healing in his wings.
Lou


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.