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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Diego11 on September 9, 2011, at 10:50:33
Hello, I would like to know How did you comapre the older MAO inhibitors as are Nardil and Parnate with more modern drug as Moclobemide ? What are the main differences between these drugs in terms of efficacy ? I know that Nardil has more side effects but supposedly it's more effective like a moclobemide.
I would like to hear your own experiences with both of them.Thanks.
Posted by SLS on September 9, 2011, at 12:59:13
In reply to older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 9, 2011, at 10:50:33
> Hello, I would like to know How did you comapre the older MAO inhibitors as are Nardil and Parnate with more modern drug as Moclobemide ? What are the main differences between these drugs in terms of efficacy ? I know that Nardil has more side effects but supposedly it's more effective like a moclobemide.
> I would like to hear your own experiences with both of them.
>
> Thanks.Nardil is a drug that is partially effective for me to treat bipolar depression. Moclobemide is the most horrific drug I have ever tried. It made my depression much worse. Moclobemide isn't really a recent addition to the Canadian formulary, It has been around for decades. Other RIMAs include befloxatone, toloxatone, and harmaline. They are not as effective as Nardil or Parnate.
- Scott
Posted by Diego11 on September 10, 2011, at 7:23:18
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by SLS on September 9, 2011, at 12:59:13
thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately, the older MAOI drugs(Nardil, Parnate...) are not marketed in my country. They are not approved so I cant get a prescription for these drugs here :(
I can get prescription only for RIMAs such as Moclobemide - Aurorix. The older MAOIs are no longer registered here because they had too many side effects and therefore they had been replaced by more modern and safe RIMAs antidepressants
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 18:26:13
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 10, 2011, at 7:23:18
Curious what country are you in? Not too many docs I've personally know have used them either. Phillipa
Posted by Diego11 on September 11, 2011, at 7:35:24
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2011, at 18:26:13
> Curious what country are you in? Not too many docs I've personally know have used them either. Phillipa
I am from Slovakia, but they are also not approved in Austria, Czech Republic, Poland... and many others countries in EU. In these countries they can only prescribe RIMAs AD instead of Nardil and Parnate.
Posted by europerep on September 11, 2011, at 11:47:17
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 11, 2011, at 7:35:24
> I am from Slovakia, but they are also not approved in Austria, Czech Republic, Poland... and many others countries in EU. In these countries they can only prescribe RIMAs AD instead of Nardil and Parnate.Since Slovakia is a member of the European Union, a Slovakian doctor can write a prescription for Nardil or Parnate, which you can then take to a pharmacy in any country in the EU where these drugs are available. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, and I have done it myself (not with a Slovakian prescription, but with a prescription from a different EU member state).
As far as I know, Austria has phenelzine (maybe under a different name than Nardil). If not, Germany has tranylcypromine, as do Italy and Spain. The UK and the Netherlands have tranylcypromine and phenelzine. Belgium and Luxemburg have phenelzine only. I know, it's all pretty far away from where you are at, but you may be able to get a drug shipped to you with a valid prescription.
If you have a doc in Slovakia who would write you a prescription, you can get them. Guaranteed. If you'd like to try that but need more information, let me know.
Posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2011, at 20:02:31
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 11, 2011, at 7:35:24
We sell on ebay and have shipped quite a few items to your country. Near Russia? Small world babble and internet. Good luck with above info from Europ!!! Phillipa
Posted by Diego11 on September 14, 2011, at 6:12:30
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by europerep on September 11, 2011, at 11:47:17
Posted by Diego11 on September 14, 2011, at 6:31:57
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by Phillipa on September 11, 2011, at 20:02:31
Slovakia is small country which lay on the border with Ukraine, so its near Russia.
Posted by Diego11 on September 14, 2011, at 6:33:00
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by europerep on September 11, 2011, at 11:47:17
thanks for info and I also really appreciate your help !
I think that the main problem will be find the doctor in Slovakia who would give me a prescription for Nardil. I know that he could do it(write me a prescription for Nardil/Parnate) but I am afraid that I will not be able to find anyone who would do it for me.
Posted by jedi on September 15, 2011, at 1:04:33
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 14, 2011, at 6:33:00
> thanks for info and I also really appreciate your help !
>
> I think that the main problem will be find the doctor in Slovakia who would give me a prescription for Nardil. I know that he could do it(write me a prescription for Nardil/Parnate) but I am afraid that I will not be able to find anyone who would do it for me.I have never used the RIMAs, but I agree with Scott. Everything that I have read tells me the efficacy is just not there. Moclobemide was never approved in the US, I am assuming because of lack of proven efficacy.
The dangers from phenelzine and tranylcypromine are blown way out of proportion. These meds often help people that have failed trials with countless other ADs and augmenters. I know I have been on 45+ different combinations and Nardil is the only medication to work for me. If you are treatment resistant, have atypical depression and social anxiety; these "OLD" MAOIs can be lifesavers.
Be Well,
Jedi
Posted by Diego11 on September 15, 2011, at 15:10:03
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by jedi on September 15, 2011, at 1:04:33
I could order Nardil w/o a prescription from some pharmacies in [xxx]. They offer Nardil and also Parnate, but their prices are very expensive as well as postage from [xxx] to my country. With a valid prescription i can get Nardil at half price from any pharmacy in UK or in all of EU.
For example, here is order of Nardil from [xxx] pharmacy:
2 boxes Nardil 100t 58.50 x 2= 117 +35 shipping cost to Slovakia by postal courier=152 ...for me it is quite expensive.
I think, since there are many dangerous food and drug interactions with Nardil so it is according to me the main reason why a lot of pdocs dont want to prescribe it, althought they certainly know how effective is Nardil.
Posted by europerep on September 15, 2011, at 15:48:49
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 14, 2011, at 6:33:00
> thanks for info and I also really appreciate your help !
>
> I think that the main problem will be find the doctor in Slovakia who would give me a prescription for Nardil. I know that he could do it(write me a prescription for Nardil/Parnate) but I am afraid that I will not be able to find anyone who would do it for me.Hmm... what you could do is try to contact a psychiatrist at one of your country's university clinics and ask him or her whether they have any experience with MAOIs, and whether they would consider writing prescriptions for it. I admit though that this is probably pretty unlikely.
Alternatively, you can of course also go to a doctor in one of the countries where MAOIs are available, but I guess that traveling through half of Europe without knowing for sure whether a doc would prescribe it is not an ideal option either.
In that case, maybe the best solution would be to order it over the internet. If phenelzine or tranylcypromine works for you, you can still try to find a doctor who will prescribe it. Of course there are risks involved, depending on your country's legislation and on whether the internet pharmacy is trustworthy.
Let me know how you decide!
Best wishes,ER
Posted by jedi on September 15, 2011, at 16:12:00
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 15, 2011, at 15:10:03
> I think, since there are many dangerous food and drug interactions with Nardil so it is according to me the main reason why a lot of pdocs dont want to prescribe it, althought they certainly know how effective is Nardil.
You have to be careful, but the food reactions are very exaggerated. My biggest problem, in over a decade of use, came in treating a mild hypertensive episode with nifedipine. The hypertension ended and my BP kept going down from the nifedipine. Other than that, it is generally cold medications that give people problems. I just don't take anything. They are all pretty much worthless anyway. Most all antihistamines are fine. I uses diphenhydramine HCL daily for sleep. Most narcotics are fine other than those that increase serotonin, like meperidine. Most MDs will just read the manuals, which are now all out of date. As far as I'm concerned, not providing these valuable medications because of a perceived danger is a disservice. Oh Well.Somebody posted this article recently.
Very good and up to date information on the MAOI diet:
http://psychotropical.com/pdfs/maois_diet_full_v2.2.1.doc.pdfMore information by Dr. Ken Gillman, this guy is good:
"Unfamiliarity and ignorance leads to apprehension concerning MAOIs; this is a major factor influencing their low usage. It is doubtless the case that withdrawal of all advertising and promotion about them, contrasted with the immense sums spent on new drugs, exacerbates the disparity."
http://www.psychotropical.com/maois_full.shtml
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by Diego11 on September 16, 2011, at 13:14:38
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by jedi on September 15, 2011, at 16:12:00
Thank you!
I wonder if there is any clinical study or trial that compares the efficiency between Nardil/Parnate and Moclobemide in treatment of social anxiety disorder ?
Which according to you is better Nardil or Parnate(for SAD, GAD, social phobia) ?
Posted by jedi on September 16, 2011, at 14:12:38
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 16, 2011, at 13:14:38
> Thank you!
>
> I wonder if there is any clinical study or trial that compares the efficiency between Nardil/Parnate and Moclobemide in treatment of social anxiety disorder?
>
> Which according to you is better Nardil or Parnate(for SAD, GAD, social phobia) ?I have failed two trials on Parnate. I've been using Nardil for over a decade. I had serious, treatment resistant atypical double depression, and social anxiety. Nardil, augmented with a small dose of clonazepam is the "BOMB" for this diagnosis. Many other meds will fail. After they all fail, Nardil will still often work. In my not so humble opinion, Nardil should be 2nd tier for this diagnosis. Not the last resort! I am prejudiced!
I so wanted Parnate to work for me because of the weight gain from Nardil. In my 2nd trial, I had a rare spontaneous hypertensive episode on Parnate. Can't take it. Nardil is the more relaxing med anyway, and better for social and other anxieties. In my case there is a synergism between Nardil and clonazepam (they both affect GABA). In combination they are very effective on social anxiety. Because of memory issues, I'm on a slow downward taper on the clonazepam. I used 2mg for years. It has been a very slow taper and I'm down to .5mg after many months. In my opinion, this is the only right way to taper off benzos.
The chance of hypomania is large when first starting Nardil or Parnate. I had it and it felt great after being depressed for so long. It is not the true antidepressant affect of the MAOIs. You have to be very careful. Avoid major life decisions, large purchases, etc. Many MDs will stop treatment with hypomania. After I got through it once, it never happened again, even on restarts of Nardil. Google Jedi, hypomania at site:www.dr-bob.org for many posts on this subject.
Again, This is all just my opinion. But it comes from over a decade of experience with over 45 different combinations of meds. That said, everyone is different. What works for one, may not work for someone else.
Be Well,
JediAdditional studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963356/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2856667/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16891998
Posted by sakar on March 5, 2014, at 14:57:59
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide), posted by Diego11 on September 15, 2011, at 15:10:03
Hi there, i am also from a country where nardil is not marketed at all and no pdoc is ready to prescribe it to me, so i would like to know the link to the pharmacy from [xxx] you mentioned in ur post. its prices seem to be too expensive but its better than nothing.i will appreciate ur help.
feel free to email me.
My email; [xxx]
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 20:52:13
In reply to Re: older MAOI Vs. modern MAOI (like moclobemide) » Diego11, posted by sakar on March 5, 2014, at 14:57:59
> i would like to know the link to the pharmacy from [xxx] you mentioned in ur post.
> My email; [xxx]Sorry, but the policy here is not to exchange information that could be used to import prescription medication without a prescription:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding this issue should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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