![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
Sorry for the long post, but this is where I come when I feel like I've worn out my family and friends.
Lately I haven't been feeling well. My wife and therapist are quick to tell me that my life looks great on the outside, but they don't live in my head. I was hypomanic in February and it was a really slow build. I had 3 great months and made some very positive decisions even if I was extremely busy and goal directed. I got back into college part time. I had a lot of fun over the holidays and my friends and family commented on how great I looked. One old friend even said I seemed less insecure and more confident like I had had a breakthrough. Anyhow much of that faded as I crashed in a mixed episode as always and I just can't seem to get back up to baseline...if there is such a thing. I never feel quite right.
I feel like a loser for taking pills. It makes me feel like I'm just a drug addict going in and out of my pdoc's office doing polypharmacy, but I am seriously concerned about my health. I've been having really terrible intrusive thoughts. Horrible aggressive thoughts that I want out of my head immediately. They aren't in my nature at all and the more I try and suppress them the more they dominate me. Some people call it Pure O or purely obsessional OCD. They are terrible thoughts in addition to the constant ruminating about if I am truly happy, in the right career, in love with my wife etc. It's all ridiculous stuff that is irrational. I have a good life.
It is terrible because I know I have a great life and that is what makes me feel crazier. I wish no one would have ever told me I was mentally ill. Maybe I wouldn't constantly feel odd and like I have this dirty secret...like I will never measure up. Other than working shift work I am doing everything right. I exercise, I do yoga, I've lost 80 pounds on the weight watchers program. I just can't seem to keep my smile. It's like this nagging dissatisfaction and obsessional nature to my life. I want it to stop.
I want to pull myself up by my bootstraps and live a life full of joy. I think I am just too sensitive for this world. Something Morgan posted last week is really ringing true for me. It was about how psychologically we stay in the cycle of unhappiness and depression because we are too afraid for the ups and downs or occasional failures that a fully engaged life will bring us. In short we are too afraid just to go out and do it. I'm starting to think that is the case. I don't think drugs can help me. I think I may have a personality disorder and need some serious CBT to stop the negative self talk.
I don't know I just wish I could get out of my mind and see the world. It's like I can't even see the world in front of me because I'm stuck in my head. I went and saw a movie today and that helped some, but just for a few hours. Sorry for being negative I've just been having a hard time.
mellow
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on August 12, 2011, at 23:37:21
In reply to Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
There's nothing wrong with taking medication. The real drugs addicts are the ones that live their lives on narcotics and get away with it. I am a drug addict. Yes I am but I go to NA meetings, im miserable and meetings make life seem not so miserable. I google narcotics to learn about altered states of counsiouness that drugs produce wishing I had that effect they produce. What normal person does this?? none. Normal people think of shopping and doing everyday things not drugs like I do. I really hate who I am. But I want to share some experience strenth and hope with you that your ok. I have obessive thoughts alot of repeating voices that go on all day. And I havent told my doctor that because honestly I have to kiss her *ss to make her give me a drug I want. I can't stand it. Lift yourself above where you are. Think high of your self. Listen to music that calms or excites you. Talk to a friend or post here about your frutrations. Journal or write somewhere about how you feel. Write someone and tell them how you live so you won't be forgotten. I'm trying my best to help you because its a little confusing because you say you have happy life but you have some things in your way that make you unhappy.
When you have instruive thoughts. Think this. Keep saying to yourself "clear and free" don't say it outloud but say it in your head because that will make you believe that you are clear and free. Look up at the sky and see how blue it the sky is. Then think that's how much sanity you have. You have endless sanity and your will never have to fear of going insane.
I honestly do not think you have addiction problems from posts.
Posted by SLS on August 13, 2011, at 7:00:21
In reply to Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
Hi.
"I want to pull myself up by my bootstraps and live a life full of joy. I think I am just too sensitive for this world. Something Morgan posted last week is really ringing true for me. It was about how psychologically we stay in the cycle of unhappiness and depression because we are too afraid for the ups and downs or occasional failures that a fully engaged life will bring us"
It's too bad that you have become so entrenched in this way of thinking. It is nihilistic, in my opinion, and places upon you the shackles of false guilt and perceived failure. To follow this line of reasoning will surely leave you wallowing in the mire of resigning oneself to believe that, "Maybe this is as good as it gets".
Don't guess. Seek out professional help before giving up.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on August 13, 2011, at 9:34:49
In reply to Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
Hi Mellow,
I am sorry you are having a difficult stretch. You have written very supportive and memorable posts to me. The distillation is to be open to recovery, that it may not be in the form I recognize it or ask for.
>I want to pull myself up by my bootstraps and live a life full of joy. I think I am just too sensitive for this world.
I sometimes want this too. A life of joy. Or I want to be 'happy'. I've been reexamining those desires. They seem, for myself, static and maybe false because they are ideals and therefore truly unobtainable. That said, I do want to feel happier, and want to feel joy more often. I am not sure if I have one wfull personality disorder, but I have what are the traits of a few (quite a few:J) Dinah provided a useful term: affective instability. I do feel things very intensely. Even joy can set be back. Finding a middle ground is difficult for me. I am quick to be aroused and can take hours (and hours) (and hours) to come back to a baseline. This affect dysregulation seems separate from yet fuels depression for me which is just a personal issue.
I have been reading that BPII and affective instability are often confused in dxing because they may present the same to a practioner/therapist and one experiencing instability.
This is just from my own reading as I am digging out. From what I have read, your meds seem to be from the one's of choice for both disorders, bipolar or affective instability.
If you feel you are too sensitive, my guess is that youbare very sensitive. Self talk and interpersonal therapies and therapeutic skills can help soothe this (I am soooo hoping) as can self-acceptance of medication (affective disorders such as, say borderline or Avoidant, two prominent for me, are being revealed as have potential genetic components. They certainly have biological aspects such as arousal times and intensities.). Medication, as I see it, and as much as I struggle with the idea of needing it, can also be seen as a gift of inquiry and kindness of human manufacture. Certainly herbals have been used for centuries with very little guilt involved.
>Morgan posted last week is really ringing true for me. It was
about how psychologically we stay in the cycle of unhappiness and depression because we are too afraid for
the ups and downs or occasional failures that a fully engaged
life will bring us.I agree with the psychological cycles we can perpetuate. Therapy can help with skillful living within a sensitive body. If that is what is a factor for you. I am not sure what a fully engaged life would be. That you are not already fully engaged seems, I don't know, somehow self-critical. And yet I hear you that you are unhappy and maybe having to work to hard at being o.k.
>In short we are too afraid just to go out and
do it. I'm starting to think that is the case. I don't think drugs can help me. I think I may have a personality disorder and need some serious CBT to stop the negative self talk.This sound good, but maybe not jettison the meds yet, however imperfect and annoying they may be, or even just disappointing. I don't know what serious cbt would be, but I can imagine that interpersonal and skill based therapy you find suitable, you will likely engage whole heartedly.
Darn, I wish I could put my hand to some good info I recently read about obsessive thinking. MIt can really come and go. If these intrusive thoughts you mention seem new in quality and content, they could be excellent material to bring into therapy.
Try not to despair, Mellow. You will make it through this. I think therapy is an excellent idea. You have my ongoing support.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on August 13, 2011, at 13:31:12
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » mellow, posted by floatingbridge on August 13, 2011, at 9:34:49
Yup seriously I must pull myself up by the bootstraps as have a very sick cat and only I can address this with the ICU vets taking care of him. The money who cares I don't life is more important to me right or wrong. But I'm losing it also. Enough from me. Phillipa
Posted by mellow on August 13, 2011, at 13:59:31
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » mellow, posted by floatingbridge on August 13, 2011, at 9:34:49
Thanks for the posts you guys. It really helped to wake up to some support...
mellow
Posted by floatingbridge on August 13, 2011, at 14:06:55
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 13, 2011, at 13:59:31
Absolutely welcome, Mellow.
Anytime.
:-)
Posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 7:10:57
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 13, 2011, at 13:59:31
Hi Mellow.
> Thanks for the posts you guys. It really helped to wake up to some support...
My post was meant to be supportive. I'm not sure that it seemed that way, though. It probably seemed somewhat harsh, but I am adamant in my belief that one should keep things as simple as possible with regard to one's self-concept and the psychotherapy that is best suited to treat you. I do like CBT, but it is often not targeted to the pathology present. I doubt that you or I are knowledgeable enough to assess your conditions and therpeutic needs. I would encourage you to pursue CBT, as it can help mitigate negative thoughts and feelings. However, you can add other therapeutic modalities to CBT.Keep things simple.
That's the best advice I can come up with right now.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 9:43:37
In reply to Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
Ok, so I don't know you or your history or much of anything except what is in your post. That said, my first impression is that you are not a psychiatric patient. You have other stuff involved that is not going to be dealt with by psych meds, and in fact may be made worse by them. That is just one person's opinion with the limited information. I see a lot of clues in what you wrote.
I think you could do a lot better by strengthening the body against all kinds of insults, and that a side benefit of that is mood problems would vanish.
Unfortunately that is a topic that seems remote, foreign, and greek to most of us here. We are so focused on meds....the trees...that we never look at the whole picture....the forest.
Adaptogens. I think you could use one. Which one we don't know. Study them and get familiar with them. My top picks would be Rhodiola, Eleuthero, Ashwaganda. These will work on overall mood stability, lessen or stop swings, energy, cognitive function, and strengthen the body against all kinds of stresses and insults.
Diet. if it isn't really clean, clean it up. By that I mean try gluten free for a couple weeks. At every sitting you should be looking at mostly veggies on your plate, with smaller portions of proteins and carbs. We can't totally avoid sugars or caffeine realistically, but we can reduce them to a bare minimum.
Anti-microbial and anti-toxin stuff....raw garlic or supplements (not de-odorized,,,the good is in the odor), NAC, lots of purified water.
So let's speed forward about 6 months and say you've tried all the above, you've found a couple rather helpful, the others not. Now we can focus on specific supplements or herbs for specific symptoms or reasons, knowing we have at least covered the basics up to this point. Or, it shouldn't be a surprise, you might find in 6 months you have your life back and don't change a thing.
In any case, I could be wrong, I just don't see this new chapter of your life going the pdoc direction as being very fruitful, and possibly harmful. I am all in favor of meds for certain people and certain situations, but I just don't sense that in your case.
Simple basic things in the american way of life cause serious problems and we just seem to bury our heads in the sand and think they have nothing to do with anything. Why is it we have the best medicals on the planet and yet our people keep getting sicker? What's up with that? Ought to tell us something. Our wheat is not good. Our water is not good. Those trace amounts of poisons on our foods...not good. Crap they feed the animals that we eat...not good. I could go on. And how about the intense stress of everyday normal living in today's society and this horrid economy? Geez, no wonder we all think we need a pdoc.
I think you can do some stuff to help thyself and probably be surprised. So when you ask if this is as good as it gets, I am pounding the table with my fists saying absolutely not. Is it the best it can get with what a doctor has at their disposal...maybe, probably, imo.
Oh and forgot to mention a good tea. It's called Calm made by Tazo. Good stuff in it, only small amounts, synergy. Among them are two superstars we hardly ever hear anything about....lemon balm and licorice. Look, I could go on for hours writinig about what the things I have mentioned in this post actually do, but I only have this one day off and am not looking to write a book. Just saying, there's a lot of stuff you can do that is not only therapeutic for your direct concerns, but additionally life improving and global health improving at the same time as side effects. And of course, in your case and many others, I see a good fit for Resveratrol (not the kind made from grapes, must be the kind made from polygonum cuspidatum commonly called japanese knotweed). Source Naturals has some, but I prefer to suggest the whole plant capsules made by Green Dragon Botanicals.
Hope. Tons of it. Just don't rely on a doctor for it. They have told me with their own words they don't know what we think they know and they can't help as much as we hope they can. Reality is what it is. Thankfully God put everything we need on this planet for us to use. We just have to gather them.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 14, 2011, at 11:50:01
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2011, at 9:43:37
Hi BB,
I don't understand the following statement:
...my first impression is that you are not a psychiatric patient. You have other stuff involved that is not going to be dealt with by psych meds, and in fact may be made worse by them.
I don't know what is meant here by a psychiatric patient.
It is quite possible to be worsened by psychiatric medication. I readily agree. I readily agree to the multi-pronged approach of herbals, therapy, exercise, spiritual practice (or avowed abstinence of depending upon personal preference), pet therapy, everything that helps.
The longer I have looked at various afflictions, the idea of a psychiatric patient seems to really disappear. Who are psychiatric patients really? Self-avowed or outwardly labeled by others or a system, but real people, I guess I don't understand.
Unless you are encouraging the practice of not seeing one's self as a psychiatric patient. That can be liberating. Being a person who is, despite having some functional issuses, able to choose to accept various treatments, herbal or pharmaceutical w/o assuming a label or identity with them.
I don't think of anyone here as a psychiatric patient. Though a few are or have been hospitalized.
Regular users of marijuana have had to get out from under the yoke of being labeled stoners or whatever the current term is. Marijuana is a powerful herb (wish it worked for me) for pain, sleep, calming. It can also create interference in some people's lives like a psychiatric med.
With so many medications and herbs being cross-purposes and repurposed, I don't know.
I know you are being supportive here, BB. And I am being a stickler. Something about the phrase stuck, and I wanted to clear the air for myself, I suppose.
Peace.
fb
Posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:21:11
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by rjlockhart04-08 on August 12, 2011, at 23:37:21
Mellow, sorry your struggling with feeling good about yourself and your life. I definitely believe there are always psychological factors at play in all of our illnesses. Still, I believe many of us would and do benefit from at least monotherapy treatment with a fairly uninvasive medication. I'm sorry, I can't remember what you've stated in the past about medication use. What medications have you tried, if any at all?
An integrative approach is always best-therapy/group therapy(which I think would be good for you), diet, exercise, forcing us to do things we are afraid of but are good for us, supplements, yoga/meditation, and positive social contact. If you have to take a little medication on top of doing all these, there is nothing wrong with that.
Also, you don't have to feel ashamed or any less of a person for having mental illness. There is a way to find the positives in it. You will understand other people's suffering more and be able to have more compassion and empathy for other people. When you come out of this and find a way to manage things and feel good, you might appreciate life more than you ever did before. Please try to find a way to be secure with some things. This will help you on your journey to wellness.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:24:48
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » mellow, posted by SLS on August 13, 2011, at 7:00:21
Scott, I agree that when we are suffering thinking that this is as good as it gets is detrimental. But I did not see much wrong with the quote by mellow you responded to. I am too sensitive for this world, that's why I have to work hard at being stronger and using my sensitivity as an advantage. We that feel too sensitive for this world need to realize that if most of the world were like us, it would be a much much better place.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:48:26
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » mellow, posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 7:10:57
Hey Scott,
I agree that keeping things simple is always a good idea. Unfortunately, things are not always simple and the complexity of what is going on needs to be faced and dealt with eventually. I may not be reading into what you are saying completely accurately. Sorry if I am not.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 12:48:46
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » SLS, posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:24:48
> Scott, I agree that when we are suffering thinking that this is as good as it gets is detrimental. But I did not see much wrong with the quote by mellow you responded to. I am too sensitive for this world, that's why I have to work hard at being stronger and using my sensitivity as an advantage. We that feel too sensitive for this world need to realize that if most of the world were like us, it would be a much much better place.
>
> Morgan
What exactly is sensitivity, and how do you know when you have it?
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:55:49
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » morgan miller, posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 12:48:46
Now I feel like you are complicating things, instead of keeping them simple. Being sensitive is exactly what the word means, sensitive, that's it. When someone is sensitive, they are very easily affected by what is going on around them. It's really that simple. I could come up with examples and further explanation, maybe I will later, not feeling too high functioning at the moment.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 13:45:52
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 12:55:49
> Now I feel like you are complicating things, instead of keeping them simple.
Okay.
> Being sensitive is exactly what the word means, sensitive, that's it.
Defining a word by using the word itself?
> When someone is sensitive, they are very easily affected by what is going on around them.
Affected in a good way or a bad way? Is there any disadvantage to being sensitive?
I hope you feel better.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on August 14, 2011, at 16:42:31
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » morgan miller, posted by SLS on August 14, 2011, at 13:45:52
Being sensitive to the world around us, the people around us, is a good and a bad thing, a blessing and a curse. Being sensitive can open the door for feeling more pain, more sadness, but, it can also enable one to be able to better connect with the world around them, if they can find a way to be stronger and protect themselves.
Thanks for the well wishes Scott. I'm feeling better-took a 2 hour nap. Still working on healing.
Hope you are continuing to improve : )
Morgan
Posted by B2chica on August 17, 2011, at 15:22:09
In reply to Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by mellow on August 12, 2011, at 22:46:27
i cant stop reading your post.
every couple days i have to read it again.i keep reading the header...Maybe this is as good as it gets.
right now i cant help but believe this.
life is good for me. a good job, a decent husband, amazing kids...
but i cant help but feel this hole in my chest where something used to be...and i dont know what, or how to get it back. except to extinguish. maybe then i will feel whole.
unfortunately even with this, there is no guarantee.why cant i feel joy, for longer than 'in the moment'
i just want to enjoy my babies.
i want to be more than an 2-dimentional icon to them.the question is...if i switch meds. i might get worse, or suffer life altering side-effects. Thinking only that i should have left "well-enough" alone...
well-enough.
am i there?b2c.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2011, at 18:40:13
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by B2chica on August 17, 2011, at 15:22:09
B2c, well crumbs. Yeah. I hear you.
Had some similar thoughts myself today.
Still, keep on in there, okay?
Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2011, at 20:51:39
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » B2chica, posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2011, at 18:40:13
Me also hence why I don't change anything but going lower on doses. Ever since I watched my next door neighbor give up ad's and just take benzos she also takes less of them and is more stable than she ever was. I'm jelous. Phillipa
Posted by B2chica on August 18, 2011, at 10:13:38
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2011, at 20:51:39
my dear husband. though well meaning at times is convinced i'm "addicted" to my medication and everything i suffer from is "in my head". we had this argument...AGAIN night before last. i mean, 1) how many times can we have this arguement? and 2)how can i even argue this?
i mean in the true sense of the words its true. i NEED the medication, though i'm not technically addicted, my brain doesn't function 'normally' without them...(and some cases even with them).
and technically it IS all in my head hence where the brain is...i told him he has one week to decide. and if he truly wants me off the medication i will do it.
now. i am no fool. i personally know exactly what will happen to me. But at this point i'm willing to let that happen. as i dont care anymore. and this way any adverse effects or permanant damage i obtain will be on his hands.but maybe...just maybe it will be enough for him to see that i DO infact NEED the medication. That i am as best as i can be on them... all of them.
i will see what he's decided on sunday. and to be honest, its given me a slight lift these days. i feel better almost having a decision on hand.
i'll post back next week as to my/his decision.
b2
Posted by floatingbridge on August 18, 2011, at 11:45:11
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets..., posted by B2chica on August 18, 2011, at 10:13:38
Ummm. I really just went through the addict thing. It is not good to go off your meds for anyone other than yourself, and if please you decide to, then (dear goddess) taper.
I had a brainy mutual friend talk to my husband about meds, ESP *just getting off* them. You now, like a magic transformation is supposed to take place and the afflicted sees the error of his or her ways and at the end of the movie is hugging everyone with tears in their eyes from saving them from the monster of addiction yet the ugly protected withdrawal and rebound scenes are edited out.
Any way you can get an alliance with him on medication? Pull him into a session? Concise, reliable med journal type reading?
Please don't let anyone or yourself put down such a rigid (short!) timeframe regarding medication.
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2011, at 19:41:34
In reply to Re: Maybe this is as good as it gets... » B2chica, posted by floatingbridge on August 18, 2011, at 11:45:11
B2Chica is it because you are very high functioning when on your meds and they are working as they should? Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.