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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 7:17:33
Hello fellows,
I've been raising bupropion dose from just 37 mg to 150 mg over the last weeks. Each time I raise the dose I seem to get stimulating benefits during the first days, but they fade away and I seem to get less motivated with time. Dr says we could reach 450 mg.
Could you share some experience on how the drug feels at each dosage for you? Like at 150 mg, 300 mg, 450 mg? I'm curious to know if I could get benefits at higher dosages.
Thank you
Ralph
Posted by Terry8 on June 7, 2011, at 9:55:01
In reply to Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 7:17:33
>
> I've been raising bupropion dose from just 37 mg to 150 mg over the last weeks. Each time I raise the dose I seem to get stimulating benefits during the first days, but they fade away and I seem to get less motivated with time.The stimulating effects are not necessarily the same as the antidepressant effects. I know the energizing feeling you mean, and it's a nice feeling after being depressed, but if you chase that feeling it will go away after a few days at each dose. Once you reach the right dose for you, however, the antidepressant effects should kick in after several more weeks. Those probably won't be as obvious as the mildly speedy feeling when you first start bupropion; you simply feel better.
That's my experience, at least. I've found it takes some time to distinguish those first few days of feeling good on a new medication from the long-term continuous effects. Just because the first few days of stimulation don't last doesn't mean the drug has pooped out on you.
I was on 300 mg for the better part of a decade, then 400 mg for a couple years, and finally 450 mg for a short time. By the end it seemed like another medication would be better for me. But the experiences at different doses were the same. Whereas Remeron was a wildly different drug at different doses, due to effects on new neurotransmitters with dose increases, bupropion seemed pretty stable to me across the board; I just had to raise the dose over time as my depression worsened. As is the usual advice, find the lowest dose that works for you, and stop there.
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2011, at 11:35:56
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by Terry8 on June 7, 2011, at 9:55:01
Since I have high anxiety couldn't handle 150mg of wellbutrin I appeared manic so doc took me off. Phillipa
Posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 13:23:05
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by Terry8 on June 7, 2011, at 9:55:01
Thanks for your replies
I feel that I still benefit from the mental stimulating properties of bupropion, but I seem to have some emotional apathy problems.
I mean, I can concentrate and be mentally active, but I'm affectively flat. People call me to have some coffee and I have nothing to say and feel very empty. I was not like this in the past.After depression I couldn't never feel emotions as before. This scares me, as ADs seem to leave this symptom untouched or even worsen it (SSRIs, specially).
Do you think I could benefit from adding an antipsychotic? Thought of this sympthom as negative ones.
Thanks
Ralph
Posted by Terry8 on June 7, 2011, at 14:07:07
In reply to Apathy issue, posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 13:23:05
You said you've been increasing the dose over the "last weeks." How many weeks? It might well be too early for the full effects to have kicked in.
Posted by Phidippus on June 7, 2011, at 15:20:36
In reply to Apathy issue, posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 13:23:05
This feeling your feeling is quite common and is often referred to as anhedonia and cqn be quite awwful. I don't think an antipsychotic is going to help at all, as they antagonize too many 5ht receptors. Your best bet is a TCA or Remeron, which work to hit a lot more recceptors than most SSRIs.
P
Posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 16:15:07
In reply to Re: Apathy issue, posted by Terry8 on June 7, 2011, at 14:07:07
Terry,
It took me 4 weeks to reach 150 mg.
I grew concerned because I started feeling worse when I went from 75 to 150 mg four days ago. Then this apathy thing got more pronounced.
> You said you've been increasing the dose over the "last weeks." How many weeks? It might well be too early for the full effects to have kicked in.
Posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 16:20:31
In reply to Re: Apathy issue » ralphrogers, posted by Phidippus on June 7, 2011, at 15:20:36
Thanks Phidippus.
I could describe this condition as a lack of love for people and things in life. You just can't feel the beauty on anything. Why doing anything? It's awful indeed.
Do you mean adding a TCA or Remeron to Bupropion or just switching?
> This feeling your feeling is quite common and is often referred to as anhedonia and cqn be quite awwful. I don't think an antipsychotic is going to help at all, as they antagonize too many 5ht receptors. Your best bet is a TCA or Remeron, which work to hit a lot more recceptors than most SSRIs.
>
> P
Posted by alchemy on June 7, 2011, at 17:45:20
In reply to Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 7:17:33
Everyone reacts differently of course. I currently take 300mg of Wellbutrin (not sure if it helps much). When I tried a higher dose I didn't get mood benefits but seemed to have constipation.
For anhedonia (I still have), Wellbutrin is a good choice & may help you at a higher dose. There is also the tricylic Desipramine that is similar.I would vote no on the chance of an antipsychotic helping.
There is always the scary stimulants :)
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 7, 2011, at 18:14:48
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by alchemy on June 7, 2011, at 17:45:20
I would think that the antipsychotics might make you more apathetic. They can help with apathy in schizophrenia (somewhat, as long the dose isn't too high), but they're pretty notorious as a group for blunting people's emotions. Maybe...Provigil? Ritalin? Adderall?
Posted by ralphrogers on June 8, 2011, at 11:39:33
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by Christ_empowered on June 7, 2011, at 18:14:48
Hello fellows,
I discovered something today. I woke up with that usual feeling of being dead emotionally and unwilling to see people. I tried a really low dose of Citalopram (5 mg) and what a difference!
I just came from lunch and it was quite pleasant and fun to be with my work partners.
It made me confirm what I suspected some time ago: SSRIs for me improve my sense of smell, hearing, taste and tactile perceptions. And it makes me more sociable.
My meal was quite tasty and the smell of coffee... great.
Bupropion over time seemed to make me socially withdrawn and strained. I hope that I can find a balance between these two meds.
Have a nice day
Ralph
Posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2011, at 22:57:36
In reply to Found something, posted by ralphrogers on June 8, 2011, at 11:39:33
That's great get confused this is lexapro or celexa? When you mention taste and smell I lost mine totally 8 years ago was yours this bad? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on June 11, 2011, at 14:01:27
In reply to Found something, posted by ralphrogers on June 8, 2011, at 11:39:33
The best drug for apathy i tried is yohibine (parnate is good as well). I would not combine it with wellbutrin, b/c of blood pressure reasons.
-d/r
Posted by Conundrum on June 12, 2011, at 11:33:49
In reply to Found something, posted by ralphrogers on June 8, 2011, at 11:39:33
> Hello fellows,
>
> I discovered something today. I woke up with that usual feeling of being dead emotionally and unwilling to see people. I tried a really low dose of Citalopram (5 mg) and what a difference!
>
> I just came from lunch and it was quite pleasant and fun to be with my work partners.
>
> It made me confirm what I suspected some time ago: SSRIs for me improve my sense of smell, hearing, taste and tactile perceptions. And it makes me more sociable.
>
> My meal was quite tasty and the smell of coffee... great.
>
> Bupropion over time seemed to make me socially withdrawn and strained. I hope that I can find a balance between these two meds.
>
> Have a nice day
>
> Ralph
>Sometimes too much stimulant type meds make people withdrawn or flat, i've read about this with stimulants, wellbutrin and parnate. Looks like you found the right balance for you. Congrats!
Posted by ralphrogers on June 12, 2011, at 12:43:16
In reply to Re: Found something, posted by Conundrum on June 12, 2011, at 11:33:49
Hi Conundrum,
What you say is really what I experienced. It seems that Wellbutrin can lead you to a depressed/anxious place, even though the benefits are still there (energy/clarity of thought). But I was indeed quite flat and somewhat depressed.
What's funny is that the smell, taste and appreciation for music are really back. I did some research and found people saying the same thing after taking something serotonergic. It is reported that serotonin is linked to sensory perception.
I'm repeating this dosage for the last few days and it's still working fine. I'll pray it keeps working.
Have a nice sunday!
Ralph
>
> Sometimes too much stimulant type meds make people withdrawn or flat, i've read about this with stimulants, wellbutrin and parnate. Looks like you found the right balance for you. Congrats!
Posted by ralphrogers on June 12, 2011, at 12:46:39
In reply to Re: Found something » ralphrogers, posted by Phillipa on June 8, 2011, at 22:57:36
Hi Phillipa,
I'm taking Celexa (Citalopram), very low dosage (5 mg). SSRIs feel too powerful to me. I guess this is because I believe I have ADHD symptoms.
My sense of smell was very very poor. I had to keep a fragrance at about 5 cm from my nose to feel something. Citalopram made quite some difference. It's not the first time I noticed this effect.
You really lost it all? Have you tried some treatment for that?
Ralph
> That's great get confused this is lexapro or celexa? When you mention taste and smell I lost mine totally 8 years ago was yours this bad? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by ralphrogers on June 12, 2011, at 13:00:52
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by alchemy on June 7, 2011, at 17:45:20
Stims are scary, huh? I like to think of them as my last resource. But maybe I'm too conservative and I'm suffering for nothing.
Antipsychotics are also scary... And as some of you pointed out, they may be not so effective.
Have you tried augmenting your WB with some DLPA or Tyrosine? Maybe some small augmentation will make a big overall difference.
Thanks!
Ralph
> Everyone reacts differently of course. I currently take 300mg of Wellbutrin (not sure if it helps much). When I tried a higher dose I didn't get mood benefits but seemed to have constipation.
> For anhedonia (I still have), Wellbutrin is a good choice & may help you at a higher dose. There is also the tricylic Desipramine that is similar.
>
> I would vote no on the chance of an antipsychotic helping.
>
> There is always the scary stimulants :)
Posted by Phillipa on June 12, 2011, at 20:25:55
In reply to Re: Found something » Phillipa, posted by ralphrogers on June 12, 2011, at 12:46:39
Yes lost it all went to two taste and smell centers about 8 years ago and recently to an ENT who did MRI of brain no abnormalities found and then he scoped my nose and said same as the centers that some virus destroyed neurons in nose and taste comes from being able to smell. No med can fix this. Still have taste buds different as they are sweet, sour, salty, and bitter. Phillipa
Posted by Zyprexa on June 13, 2011, at 20:48:50
In reply to Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by ralphrogers on June 7, 2011, at 7:17:33
I went as high as 400mg sr version. It was very stimulating and did not go away. So I went back down to 300mg and that was fairly stimulating wich also did not go away. I'm at 200mg and I hardly even notice it. So I would try 300mg. Do you take IR, SR or XR.
Posted by ralphrogers on June 13, 2011, at 20:58:02
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg, posted by Zyprexa on June 13, 2011, at 20:48:50
Thanks for your input. I'm taking Wellbutrin XL, because I find it more comfortable (the SR would wean off around 11 pm leaving me very tired).
I just found out that adding only 5 mg of Citalopram seemed to really augment the overall stimulant qualities of WB. Big difference. Did you ever try this? Actually I felt that WB alone wasn't giving me the right balance. Let's hope this effect keeps there. I'll post some update.
> I went as high as 400mg sr version. It was very stimulating and did not go away. So I went back down to 300mg and that was fairly stimulating wich also did not go away. I'm at 200mg and I hardly even notice it. So I would try 300mg. Do you take IR, SR or XR.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 15, 2011, at 4:54:15
In reply to Re: Bupropion effects at 150-450 mg » Zyprexa, posted by ralphrogers on June 13, 2011, at 20:58:02
I had better results with sr. Didn't like the xl. what I did was take 3 100mg WBs, morning noon and supper. I was never tired. I also took citalopram with WB. Didn't notice anything between the 2. whats wrong with being tired at 11pm.
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