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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
.. and if so does that indicate anything? After the sun's down, and dusk has passed.. I am maybe 15-20% better. (Still quite depressed.)
-z
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2011, at 17:05:01
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
I always feel better at night hence up til 3am reading? Anxiety goes down somewhat when day is done? Will be curious to hear what others say. And also seems a lot of others get up really early and bed earlier but they post they are depressed? Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 18:37:42
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
Yes. All my life. No answer. Very inconvenient.
Posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 18:41:59
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » zonked, posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 18:37:42
Even when in remission (or before I ever had depression), 10pm-2am has been my favorite time to be alive. When I worked, I used to do my best thinking (and some of my best work) from home. (I grew up in the VPN age, what can I say?)
I seem to recall somewhere this being a potential sign of bipolar disorder, but alas, the source escapes me. Perhaps it means nothing at all. :-)
PS: How are you doing today?
-z
Posted by bleauberry on May 30, 2011, at 19:07:14
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
That used to happen to me every day, on meds or off didn't matter. It could be hormonal. Part of the daily cycle. It's probably a bit out of sync with the timeclock on the wall. In my case I had pretty bad adrenal fatigue most of the day and then the nearly absent cortisol began to climb into the normal range in early evening. It was evident on a chart. It coincided perfectly with my mood improvement. Now a couple years later after taking steps to support and heal my adrenals the cycle still seems out of sync a little and cortisol is still low but at least is still in the normal range without the big spikes down or up.
Anyway who knows. My guess is hormonal. That pattern you described is rather common with people who are nearing adrenal exhaustion but not quite there, or people who have already crashed but are now on the healing path. It can also be disregulation of the pituitary gland. That could be from a host of causes including accumulation of metals, infections, stress or trauma, or genetics. In any case I think it means there need to be some changes apart from the meds. Whether on meds or off, there are other things very important to focus on. My opinion anyway.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 19:13:07
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » floatingbridge, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 18:41:59
Today, better, now there is a reason for feeling like crawling out of my skin while bitting anything naive enough to come close.
Totally scattered. In bed. Last pain pill for the day taken. Grump grump. But big improvement over yesterday.
The bipolar connection is interesting. I'd Love to hear more about it from someone. After much observation, I don't reject bipolar signs in myself any longer. Ssnr's finally made me worse--of that's an indicator.
And yourself? You live somewhere that
the sun has set? Personally, I feel a bittersweet flare of energy just as the sun touched the mountains.Then gloom followed by a second (or sometimes an initial burst of enegry.How are you?
Still sunny, but not for long,
fb
Posted by lepus on May 30, 2011, at 19:32:45
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » zonked, posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 19:13:07
I feel better at night also. Not sure why. I do believe cortisol levels have something to do with it. I believe this phenomenon is called diurnal mood variation.
Posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 19:39:53
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by bleauberry on May 30, 2011, at 19:07:14
>Whether on meds or off, there are other things very important to focus on. My opinion anyway.
I couldn't agree more, but just try getting most physicians to run the labwork required to rule out hormonal (or other!) causes to mood problems. Some doctors I've seen along this path began to treat me without bothering to check my thyroid gland!
I've come back subclinical hypothyroid and with testosterone levels well below average for my age (but not in an alarm zone) and no doctor I've been able to see with my coverage will entertain the idea of doing anything about it.
Sometimes I wonder if messing with HPA function would help restore me to functional. (Hell, my Mom has some Decadron she doesn't appear to need anymore! But no, I couldn't really do that. I wouldn't even know how to dose it.)
-z
Posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 19:51:40
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » bleauberry, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 19:39:53
What's decadron?
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on May 30, 2011, at 19:54:31
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
Thats the stereotypical pattern of endrogenous depression..... wake early in the morning feeling terrible, cant get back to sleep, struggle through the day, be feeking somewhat better by evening.
If an SSRI isnt helping you enough, ask for a trial of Welbutrin, it may be stronger in endrogenous depression than SSRI's
Posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 19:55:35
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » zonked, posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 19:51:40
> What's decadron?
A super powerful steroid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexamethasone
-z
Posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 20:09:33
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 19:55:35
But it doesn't seem reset anything, does it? Like cortisol not really helping.
I just feel like I'm slowly dying. Sometimes I want to curl up like in a snowdrift. Other times I feel like a happy tiger and that I'll be able to be able again.
I'd take just about anything to help my kid through school. That's my contract.
Posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 20:39:34
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » zonked, posted by floatingbridge on May 30, 2011, at 20:09:33
I know what you mean. One of the things motivating me to continue to be proactive about becoming well is that I don't want my Mom to pass away wondering whether or not I'll ever get better....
-z
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2011, at 22:23:33
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » floatingbridge, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 20:39:34
Since both I and husband stay up late and sleep late asked my endo if this was hurting my cortisol he said that after a while your body clock resets. I always worked 3-ll when nursing and always slept late even as a child so I feel this is just my pattern. Phillipa
Posted by Roslynn on May 31, 2011, at 11:52:43
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
Yes, my mood is much better after, say, 7pm. It is at its worst when I wake up. There is a huge difference.
Roslynn
> .. and if so does that indicate anything? After the sun's down, and dusk has passed.. I am maybe 15-20% better. (Still quite depressed.)
>
> -z
Posted by bleauberry on May 31, 2011, at 16:02:34
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » bleauberry, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 19:39:53
I think your post highlights an all too common problem. That is, we turn over complete control of our health to someone else.
I talked to a psychiatric nurse the other day....a fellow musician. He says most patients make 2 big mistakes:
1. Expecting a doctor to know what to do (they don't, we just think they do)
2. Not incorporating spirituality into their healing.The best outcomes are with patients that do their own research, make their own decisions, and guide their own journey. The doctor is there to help and monitor, but by no means should be the one standing between you and healing. IMO.
As for the lab tests, I don't put much faith in them. A clinical picture is pretty good. Tests have too many false negatives, or gray areas (for example someone in low normal thyroid who is told they are ok despite obvious hypothyroid clinical picture).
It is the response, or nonresponse, of a trial that confirms or rules out a suspicion better than a lab.
Keep in mind, doctors do not have all the answers we wish they did. Furthermore, they are moderately restrained by insurance companies. In the above example, a regulator or insurance company could make trouble with that doctor for attempting to treat someone for hypothyroid because their labs were after all in the "supposed" normal range. Of course, the whole idea of a "supposed" normal range is another whole topic filled with flaws, almost worthy of writing a book all by itself.
> >Whether on meds or off, there are other things very important to focus on. My opinion anyway.
>
> I couldn't agree more, but just try getting most physicians to run the labwork required to rule out hormonal (or other!) causes to mood problems. Some doctors I've seen along this path began to treat me without bothering to check my thyroid gland!
>
> I've come back subclinical hypothyroid and with testosterone levels well below average for my age (but not in an alarm zone) and no doctor I've been able to see with my coverage will entertain the idea of doing anything about it.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if messing with HPA function would help restore me to functional. (Hell, my Mom has some Decadron she doesn't appear to need anymore! But no, I couldn't really do that. I wouldn't even know how to dose it.)
>
> -z
>
Posted by torrid on June 1, 2011, at 15:52:16
In reply to Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by zonked on May 30, 2011, at 16:32:37
makes sence if you want to avoid people and feel safe from the world. unlikey the phone will ring or a knock on the door. you can stay awake at night and avoid the world by sleeping all day or by being to tired to do anything. I prioritize good sleep habits and don't take sleep for granted. I'm given to sleep walking and other sleep disturances. I wish I could remember the name of a book about sleeping habbits I came across. it said eating carbohydrate with in 45 min of waking to raise blood sugar not eating anything 4-6 hours before bed to lower blood sugar, eating complex carb and protien fot lunch and dinner, avoiding being in front of a computer or in brite lights a couple hours before bed time, (dim light). It works.
Posted by floatingbridge on June 1, 2011, at 16:06:43
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » zonked, posted by torrid on June 1, 2011, at 15:52:16
torrid, I was reading about blue light being the most damaging to sleep/wake cycles, and that is highest (if I remember correctly) in screens of all type. My understanding was this blue light could be somewhat accumulative over the day, say a susceptible person works all day on a screen. A friend has these amber tinted lenses to cut down on blue light. She says it helps her.
The psychological aspect you bring up resonates with me, except for me, at night my safety zone doesn't go to far past my bed :-/ So it's not like I am useful at night.
Geez.
Posted by torrid on June 1, 2011, at 21:21:26
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night? » torrid, posted by floatingbridge on June 1, 2011, at 16:06:43
I feel prity stongly about this subject. Good eating and sleeping habits are not going to cure a severed limb but good sleep and eating habits can take you a long way.
never knew about the blue lights,
I fall asleep in minutes but have all kinds of sleep disturbances. I have periods that I can sleep like an ordinary mortal and times of scary sleep walking.
Posted by Phillipa on June 1, 2011, at 21:54:15
In reply to Re: good sleep habits » floatingbridge, posted by torrid on June 1, 2011, at 21:21:26
I guess getting off computer, shower, and then read eliminates blue light is that what computers are? Didn't know that? Thanks Love Phillipa
Posted by Iden on June 4, 2011, at 17:33:49
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on May 30, 2011, at 19:54:31
> Thats the stereotypical pattern of endrogenous
> depression..... wake early in the morning feeling
> terrible, cant get back to sleep, struggle through
> the day, be feeling somewhat better by evening.
Yes, been that way for decades with chronic
depression. I am an amateur radio operator
and lately in the evenings there is a piece of
equipment I think would be fun to have.
In the mornings I think it is a stupid idea and
a waste of money - day after day.
Posted by Iden on June 4, 2011, at 20:05:55
In reply to Re: Anyone feel much better at night?, posted by Iden on June 4, 2011, at 17:33:49
Additional comments on amateur radio
and depression.....
When running more on the depressed side,
it is hard to think of things to say -- or to
even want to say anything AT ALL !! This
is a heck of a thing for a ham radio operator.
It is harder to respond in an interesting manner
to the comments of others. When operating
from home, I make many notes to help the
process. When talking mobile (when driving)
I have been almost unable to communicate
at times due to inability to remember what
was just said. Depression makes remembering
much harder. On the average, it is easier
nearer the end of the day which is on topic
for this thread. Not being medication related
maybe it should be in a different forum but
am just following up.
This is the end of the thread.
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