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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 2:36:44
Hi Guys,
I've read some posts recently about the possible long term brain damage caused by the hydrazine derivative phenelzine(PLZ). As a user of phenelzine for over a decade, that concerns me. Here is a study that shows the possible neuroprotective effect of phenelzine and it's major metabolite, phenylethylidenehydrazine(PEH).
JediSummary:
"Studies on the mechanisms of action and metabolism of PLZ suggest that the clinical application of PLZ should be wider than it already is (e.g. should it be used in post-stroke depression and in Alzheimers disease?) and that analogues of PLZ and PEH should be developed as potential new drugs for treating psychiatric and neurologic disorders, particularity those involving neurodegeneration."Abstract:
The monoamine oxidase (MAO)-inhibiting antidepressant
phenelzine (PLZ) is also used in the treatment of anxiety
disorders such as panic disorder and social anxiety disorder
and has been shown to have neuroprotective actions in an
animal model of transient forebrain ischemia. Phenelzine
has multiple actions in addition to inhibition of MAO that
may contribute to its pharmacological and therapeutic
profile. These actions include inhibition of GABA
transaminase and elevation of brain levels of GABA, effects
on functional availability of glutamate, sequestration of
reactive aldehydes, inhibition of primary amine oxidase
and effects on brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). 2-
Phenylethylidenehydrazine (PEH) has been identified as a
major metabolite of PLZ and has also been shown to
elevate brain levels of GABA, to sequester reactive
aldehydes and to exert neuroprotective effects in a
transient forebrain ischemia model. The actions of PLZ and
PEH should be considered when designing future drugs for
the treatment of psychiatric and neurologic disorders,
particularly those involving neurodegeneration.
Posted by angels78 on July 3, 2010, at 5:34:27
In reply to Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 2:36:44
Hey Jedi! How are you?
Jedi, do you know the proper and correct way to "wein" off the Nardil 75mg/day. I talk to my doc in a week, just wanted to get another persons view on how long it should take to completely come off the drug properly.Happy 4th of July
Posted by SLS on July 3, 2010, at 6:15:33
In reply to Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 2:36:44
MAO inhibition can also protect mitochondria from damage by the free radicals that are produced by the deamination of neurotransmitters.
- Scott
> Hi Guys,
> I've read some posts recently about the possible long term brain damage caused by the hydrazine derivative phenelzine(PLZ). As a user of phenelzine for over a decade, that concerns me. Here is a study that shows the possible neuroprotective effect of phenelzine and it's major metabolite, phenylethylidenehydrazine(PEH).
> Jedi
>
> Summary:
> "Studies on the mechanisms of action and metabolism of PLZ suggest that the clinical application of PLZ should be wider than it already is (e.g. should it be used in post-stroke depression and in Alzheimers disease?) and that analogues of PLZ and PEH should be developed as potential new drugs for treating psychiatric and neurologic disorders, particularity those involving neurodegeneration."
>
> Abstract:
> The monoamine oxidase (MAO)-inhibiting antidepressant
> phenelzine (PLZ) is also used in the treatment of anxiety
> disorders such as panic disorder and social anxiety disorder
> and has been shown to have neuroprotective actions in an
> animal model of transient forebrain ischemia. Phenelzine
> has multiple actions in addition to inhibition of MAO that
> may contribute to its pharmacological and therapeutic
> profile. These actions include inhibition of GABA
> transaminase and elevation of brain levels of GABA, effects
> on functional availability of glutamate, sequestration of
> reactive aldehydes, inhibition of primary amine oxidase
> and effects on brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). 2-
> Phenylethylidenehydrazine (PEH) has been identified as a
> major metabolite of PLZ and has also been shown to
> elevate brain levels of GABA, to sequester reactive
> aldehydes and to exert neuroprotective effects in a
> transient forebrain ischemia model. The actions of PLZ and
> PEH should be considered when designing future drugs for
> the treatment of psychiatric and neurologic disorders,
> particularly those involving neurodegeneration.
>
> Full text:
> http://www.psikofarmakoloji.org/pdf/20_2_13.pdf
>
Posted by linkadge on July 3, 2010, at 7:11:42
In reply to Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 2:36:44
Well, I don't know. Drugs can behave very differently in acute vs. chronic administration situations.
For instance, benzodiazpines, given acutely are highly neuroprotective against glutamate neurotoxicity. Given chronically however, these drugs have been linked to neuronal atrophy.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 3, 2010, at 7:12:33
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by SLS on July 3, 2010, at 6:15:33
>MAO inhibition can also protect mitochondria >from damage by the free radicals that are >produced by the deamination of neurotransmitters.
I think there is still some debate about this.
Linkadge
Posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 10:40:00
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective? » jedi, posted by angels78 on July 3, 2010, at 5:34:27
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 10:47:06
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by linkadge on July 3, 2010, at 7:12:33
Never heard that about benzos. Wonder what happened to Ace? Phillipa
Posted by Conundrum on July 3, 2010, at 11:57:45
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 10:47:06
> Never heard that about benzos. Wonder what happened to Ace? Phillipa
I wonder what happened to Alice, when she was 10 feet tall?
Posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 13:49:25
In reply to Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by jedi on July 3, 2010, at 2:36:44
Lucky you posted, I was about to put out an all points bulletin on you...
~Jade
Posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 14:11:28
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by Conundrum on July 3, 2010, at 11:57:45
> > Never heard that about benzos. Wonder what happened to Ace? Phillipa
>
> I wonder what happened to Alice, when she was 10 feet tall?
I haven't laughed that hard from a post in a long time, hilarious~Jade (still laughing)
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 19:44:05
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective? » Conundrum, posted by jade k on July 3, 2010, at 14:11:28
Ace The Nardil Champ used to always pop in. He was the biggest proponent of nardil? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on July 4, 2010, at 18:08:22
In reply to Re: Could phenelzine(Nardil) be neuroprotective?, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2010, at 19:44:05
Pheeew doctor, so this is all because I am low on serotonin!!! Wow, for a minute there I though was feeling crappy because I needed to:
a) get a (new) job
b) exercise
c) resolve marital issues
d) resolve finacial issues
e) go back to school
f) eat healthier
g) join a religion
h) buy an air conditioner
i) send my kids to boot camp
j) kick the booze
k) get friends
l) stop playing so many video games
m) have goals or prospects
n) stop being a workaholic
o) move out of the house
p) lose some weight
q) stand up for myself
r) develop some moral sensibility
s) face my fears
t) forgive my mother
u) spend time with my kids
v) stop buying things on credit
w) want to get better
x) learn from my mistakes
y) learn to get go
z) take the first step myself
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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