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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 14:44:49
to see if it could help with anhedonia. I just feel f'ed up and dizzy. Does this stuff really make some people feel better?
Posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 14:50:18
In reply to Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 14:44:49
> to see if it could help with anhedonia. I just feel f'ed up and dizzy. Does this stuff really make some people feel better?
If you took percocet you took oxycodone. Hydrocodone is vicodin or some other names.
If you're new to opiates your dose should only be 5 mg. To much will make you feel sick. That's 5 mg for percocet as it is strong.
Yes some people do feel better on it and some don't. As a child I would feel better on codeine cough medicine.
But this needs to be supervised as there is a good chance you will end up addicted if you like it and you're not supervised. Therefore I do not recommend what you are doing.
Posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:22:04
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 14:50:18
I don't like it. I tried them once before and it had this same feeling. It worries me that things like alcohol, weed, sex do not produce joy in me. I've never abused drugs unless you consider taking prozac 4 years abusing your body, which now I do. I just need an answer.
Does this drug have a different feeling than vicodin? I know it has tylenol, other than that are they the same?
Posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 15:31:54
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » bulldog2, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:22:04
>Does this drug have a different feeling than vicodin?
A bit, yes>I know it has tylenol, other than that are they the same?
Not the same, no.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:46:12
In reply to Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 14:44:49
>to see if it could help with anhedonia....
It might do after the first few doses, which often cause side effects such as dizziness and nausea. It is very common for the initial response to be unpleasant. This does not preclude a euphoric response in a few days time, which is often followed by the insidious development of addiction.
Posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:47:24
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » conundrum, posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 15:31:54
So whats the difference? I doubt it would be enough to be worth trying to get a hold of, if I feel worse, just dizzy with percocet. I guess my problem isn't low endorphins.
Posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:52:19
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:46:12
Hmm that sounds lame and there is no way for me to get a script anyway, so I'll just have to wait like 3 months to find out lamictal won't do anything either. :(
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:55:08
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » sigismund, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:47:24
>So whats the difference?
Oxycodone and hydrocodone are both relatively potent opioids.
>I doubt it would be enough to be worth trying to get a hold of.........
Not really, no. Even if you felt better in the short term you would probably feel worse a few weeks down the line. It wouldn't be sensible to compound your mental health problems with a drug addiction.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:56:59
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » ed_uk2010, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:52:19
> Hmm that sounds lame and there is no way for me to get a script anyway, so I'll just have to wait like 3 months to find out lamictal won't do anything either. :(
Well yeah, opioids are euphoriants and analgesics, they are not antidepressants. Any improvement in mood is generally very short-lived.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 16:12:41
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:56:59
> > Hmm that sounds lame and there is no way for me to get a script anyway, so I'll just have to wait like 3 months to find out lamictal won't do anything either. :(
>
> Well yeah, opioids are euphoriants and analgesics, they are not antidepressants. Any improvement in mood is generally very short-lived.
>
>
>
>Right now the only way to get a script that is ongoing is for some condition of chronic and or severe pain.
I don't agree that mood improvement is only several weeks. Euphoria is only short lived. Opiates were used as antidepressants before the advent of the tcas and maois.
Last year I was on percocet for four months and if you don't chase the euphoria and just dose for pain relief I did maintain mood improvement for those four months.
I've seen studies that seem to indicate that many depressed people have low endorphin levels. Now I'm not saying that taking oxycodone or hydrocodone is the way to go. Perhaps fixing neurotransmitters levels will fix the low opiate levels.But someone who responds to opiates,opioids, may be an indication of low endorphin levels.
There's so much we don't know about the process of fixing depression. I think once one part of the neurotransmitters system get out of balance you get a domino effect.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 17:00:23
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 16:12:41
>I don't agree that mood improvement is only several weeks.
I suppose that the duration is variable. If an opioid was used to treat depression, it seems unlikely that any improvement would be sustained in the long term. I do recognise that opioids have a role in the treatment of certain types of chronic non-cancer pain, however.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 17:52:00
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » bulldog2, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 17:00:23
> >I don't agree that mood improvement is only several weeks.
>
> I suppose that the duration is variable. If an opioid was used to treat depression, it seems unlikely that any improvement would be sustained in the long term. I do recognise that opioids have a role in the treatment of certain types of chronic non-cancer pain, however.
>
>
>
>
>
>Well we do know that heroin addicts are maintained on methadone for years. Apparently it sustains their mood enough to keep them off heroin. Wether it is an antidepressant is open to debate.
The fact that people make their own internal endorphins that sustain mood seems to suggest the possibility of doing this with a synthetic drug. We know some p-docs are beginning to play around with bup. Opiates,opioids, seem to be part of the depression puzzle for many.
The synthetic drugs available may not be the answer. But it needs to be pursued as it appears some are depressed because of a shortage of these endorphins. What we now have does eventually poop out because the body recognizes them as foreign and finds ways to get them out of the body.So as with synthetic hgh we need to duplicate these endorphins so the body does not recognize them as invaders.
Posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 17:57:59
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:46:12
>This does not preclude a euphoric response in a few days time, which is often followed by the insidious development of addiction.
That's about it.
It does take a while to learn how to enjoy opiate drugs. Once you've worked out how to do that you're in trouble.
Posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 17:59:47
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » sigismund, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 15:47:24
It's a long time since I took hydrocodone. I thought it was wonderful stuff. I'd like some now (of course). Better than oxycodone which is a bit weird and dull.
Posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 18:04:11
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by bulldog2 on May 2, 2010, at 16:12:41
I had a friend who got cancer. When I gave my condolences she said 'No, it's fine'. She was looking forward to a bit of pain relief and had no misconceptions about life. By the end she may have had second thoughts. Cancer is a pretty good way to get rid of depression, IMO. And if that doesn't work, maybe you can take psiloscybin.
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2010, at 19:53:51
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by sigismund on May 2, 2010, at 18:04:11
After my surgery l percocet had me laughing was a bit loopy first pill then just felt good. What about those on what is it suboxatone or something like that. Know some on it actually two people. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 20:53:43
In reply to Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 14:44:49
Conundrum,
that sound's pretty cr*ppy-- I'm sorry this is on-going for you.
I don't think opoids help most people, and you probably took too much anyways as others posted.
I'm still considering tramadol but have much different thoughts about it now than before. So I've been taking hydrocodine (sp?) for over a month now. I don't think I'm less depressed (I know our conditions are different).
In fact, when I have breakthrough pain and take more, I feel muffled and dull.
I know I've asked--stims don't work?
Posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 21:00:08
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by ed_uk2010 on May 2, 2010, at 15:46:12
Ed, is their any antidepressant treatment that creates sustainable improvement? I don't understand....
(I take low dose lithium....)
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2010, at 21:26:40
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » ed_uk2010, posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 21:00:08
You do? Phillipa
Posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 22:11:07
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 20:53:43
Only stim I've tried is ritalin IR and it doesn't do anything for me. I definitely felt better when the drug wore off this evening. It makes me feel a little more blunted as well.
Right now I'm trialing lamictal, but I'm not very patient I have to titrate up to atleast 100mgs i guess and then wait 6-8 weeks.
I gotta stop reading forums like this unfortunately. I was optimistic at first then I read some negative things in the creativity thread about lamictal and now I'm affraid it will just cause blunting and be a waste of time.
I want to go back to school but I know I won't be able to do a master's until my motivation comes back. I'm considering asking about taking 2.5 mg prozac with this to help with motivation. I just don't know what to do. I have a temp job thats ending soon and I'll just sit around at home bored out of my mind ugh. I would like to add prozac, but if it starts working how do i know if its the prozac or lamictal? I guess I would know if it was just the prozac since I have taken that alone before and know how it makes me feel.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 23:32:06
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 22:11:07
Well, taking a break from babble could be really good.
Are you working with a doc fairly closely? I'm concerned that if you do start prozac, you won't know what's what. Then, you know more about meds.... And I'm wondering about returning to prozac only because you trace your onset to it's discontinuation.
Glad the opoid wore off.
Oh, and I guess I ignore many of the creativity discussions because I have issues--so it's much better for my mental health. Frankly, the best stuff I ever wrote was after depression treatment.
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2010, at 8:05:47
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 22:11:07
> I was optimistic at first then I read some negative things in the creativity thread about lamictal and now I'm affraid it will just cause blunting and be a waste of time.
I doubt that Lamictal will affect creativity. Not everyone develops cognitive side effects, either. Hopefully, you will respond to a dosage that is no higher than 200mg. That seems to be the dosage that is most often arrived at. Cognitive side effects seem to be dosage dependent.
Good luck with it.
- Scott
Posted by conundrum on May 3, 2010, at 11:55:51
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » conundrum, posted by SLS on May 3, 2010, at 8:05:47
> > I was optimistic at first then I read some negative things in the creativity thread about lamictal and now I'm affraid it will just cause blunting and be a waste of time.
>
> I doubt that Lamictal will affect creativity. Not everyone develops cognitive side effects, either. Hopefully, you will respond to a dosage that is no higher than 200mg. That seems to be the dosage that is most often arrived at. Cognitive side effects seem to be dosage dependent.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
>
> - Scott
Yeh I hope it helps. I put a lot of pressure on feeling better before my girlfriend comes to visit me this summer. I don't need to be 100% but atleast a little more energetic and motivated. She tells me not to worry about when she comes and just focus on getting better and she is right.Also I feel like I could be more of a benefit than a burden to my grandparents if I was on a small dose of prozac right now since it makes me get things done and be more productive. My grandmom just got out of rehab hospital so I want to be able to help my grandpop taking care of her, but sometimes I just go sit up in my room and waste time and just avoid doing work. In a way its like ADHD, even when I'm trying to do something I get distracted and start doing something else. I guess I'm just fed up with myself and I have no drive to get things done everything just feels like a burden and I get no reward from doing things like say cleaning my room. There is an obvious benefit to cleaning my room, I can walk through it without tripping , but I get no satisfaction or feeling like I did something good when I clean it, then it just gets messy again. I also have to register to go back to school and I see no way I'm gonna get that done right now.
Last fall I tried prozac at a low dose with a little bit of buspar. After some weeks I noticed I was just doing more things around the house and planning for my future. I didn't even attribute it to the drug. I thought it wasn't doing anything so I increased the dose to 5mg every day instead of just 5 mg every other day. Soon after the increase I felt even more blunted than I had before.
The ammount of benefit was noticable though not huge maybe 3 out of 10 in how close to normal I felt, but it was something. Now I wonder if I had stayed at the lower dose if the benefits would have increased? I took my GPs advice and tried something else since there isn't much room for dosage change if 2.5 mg a day is all the gives a benefit. Also I side effects like diarrhrea and headaches which seem to indicate too much serotonin. I believe the benefits of prozac came from its antagonistic effects at the 5 HT2 receptors.
It was interesting because I was able to even enjoy music slightly more like it made me be able to concentrate and remeber it better. I listen to some complex music now and it does nothing and just seems to blend together.
I guess I'm worried lamictal won't help with my types of symptoms and wish I had something with more noradrenergic support that would kick in sooner than 6-8 weeks. Of course I want to try give lamictal a real trial where I can see if this drug on its own can make me feel better, but I don't feel I have that luxury at this time.
I might call her and see what she thinks about adding the prozac. I think I'd be able to discriminate the effects of prozac from the effects of lamictal but I'm not sure.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2010, at 12:16:26
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)... » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on May 2, 2010, at 22:11:07
> Only stim I've tried is ritalin IR and it doesn't do anything for me. I definitely felt better when the drug wore off this evening. It makes me feel a little more blunted as well.
>
> Right now I'm trialing lamictal, but I'm not very patient I have to titrate up to atleast 100mgs i guess and then wait 6-8 weeks.
>
> I gotta stop reading forums like this unfortunately. I was optimistic at first then I read some negative things in the creativity thread about lamictal and now I'm affraid it will just cause blunting and be a waste of time.
>
> I want to go back to school but I know I won't be able to do a master's until my motivation comes back. I'm considering asking about taking 2.5 mg prozac with this to help with motivation. I just don't know what to do. I have a temp job thats ending soon and I'll just sit around at home bored out of my mind ugh. I would like to add prozac, but if it starts working how do i know if its the prozac or lamictal? I guess I would know if it was just the prozac since I have taken that alone before and know how it makes me feel.Talked to my doctor about this today and he tends to be very open when I ask him about sides.Your comment about forums like this giving you a negative spin on a med is unfortunate. I started a thread about forums like this.
1. People who have had positive experiences with meds don't seek out forums like this.
2. People who achieve remission tend to leave forums such as this one.
3. So that leaves treatment resistant people who have had bad experience and med failures here.
4. So be aware that the amount of actual negative experiences will be far less in reality than what is being reported here.
5. Almost any drug that you come here for info will give you a much skewed report on negative incidents.
6. Maybe you need to find a p-doc who you trust and is talanted and follow him/her for med advice. I can assure you that 10 minutes after looking up a drug here you will be deflated and think everyone who tried the drug either failed on it or almost died from sides.
7. I myself have made the same mistake. Find a good doc and take the meds they prescribe and see how things work out. You can always stop a med trial. I know how you feel as I have made the same mistake.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2010, at 12:23:40
In reply to Re: Just took hydrocodone(percocet)..., posted by floatingbridge on May 2, 2010, at 20:53:43
> Conundrum,
>
> that sound's pretty cr*ppy-- I'm sorry this is on-going for you.
>
> I don't think opoids help most people, and you probably took too much anyways as others posted.
>
> I'm still considering tramadol but have much different thoughts about it now than before. So I've been taking hydrocodine (sp?) for over a month now. I don't think I'm less depressed (I know our conditions are different).
>
> In fact, when I have breakthrough pain and take more, I feel muffled and dull.
>
> I know I've asked--stims don't work?
>
>
>Stims are like opiates in my opinion. They tend to work for awhile and than tolerance sets in and you need more and than they stop working.
I have found that at least for me opiates at best can be a good on. But for me it cannot be the main ad. Right now I am on clomipramine and it seems to be helping. When I take my pain meds I get a small blip of mood improvement. But the opiate could never function as an ad by itself for me.
When neurontin worked it actually was a good ad for me and it worked for a couple of years. But I don't think most people get that result.
As far as tramadol goes it a unique drug because of the se and ne reuptake.
I think most people need a good ad as the foundation of their med program.
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