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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Garnet_LDN on January 14, 2010, at 16:33:44
Hi,
I own two Low Dose Naltrexone Yahoo lists. One is for information only and is not a discussion list. It is only for the Links and Files. You will find many resources including full text copies of the human studies published to date for LDN. As well as information on proposed mechanisms of action which include immune balancing and not simply upregulation as has previously been thought. Increased wound healing, pain relief and hormone balancing have also been noted, as well as disease prevention some of which may extend beyond LDN's elevation of endorphin levels. Research publications are provided or linked for those interested in documentation and theory of Low Dose Naltrexone, not just full dose studies.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_Information
The second list is for discussion of starting with very low doses, as low as 0.1 mg and increasing by 0.25mg increments to minimize side effects for those who have had issues due to being very sensitive or due to accumulation.We also discuss Dr Zagon's ideas on skipping days
between doses, based on his animal studies. Many report improved results with skipping days. And with starting out very low, most are starting at 0.5 mg. Some do not go beyond 1 mg, which is actually in opposition to the Bihari Protocol which says that less than 1.75 mg is not effective.Regarding this idea the occurence of vivid dreams at even 0.5 mg implies that less that even 0.5mg of LDN is doing something at even this very low dose.
As reported by many LDN users it may take 4 - 6 months to notice results and up to 18 months to reach maximum benefit. I have noticed some threads on this board where people quit after just three weeks, or never try lowering the dose or skipping days between.
Many have noted increased benefits and lessened side effects with doses in the 1 - 2 mg range over
2.5 - 3 mg. No longer is 3.0 - 4.5 mg considered the optimal dose range for all. There is much variation, thought to possible be due to tissue accumulation or individual sensitivity.
Please join our discussions of this amazing use of an out of patent generic drug!------------------------
Important! Please support our LDN petition to the European Parliament by signing here. Anyone in any country can sign so please help us promote the human right to access and full disclosure by physicians of information on the benefits of LDN in MS. HIV/AIDS, Autism and all autoimmune diseases and some Cancers.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ldnnow/www.ldnnow.com
Dr Chris Steele MBE, ITV's This Morning
supporting LDN
Posted by Deneb on January 15, 2010, at 1:16:07
In reply to Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on January 14, 2010, at 16:33:44
Hello Garnet_LDN!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Thanks for that information about Naltrexone. I'm sure it will help someone. I hope you'll join in on the conversations here as well.
Deneb
Posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 8:29:27
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information » Garnet_LDN, posted by Deneb on January 15, 2010, at 1:16:07
> Hello Garnet_LDN!
>
> Welcome to Psycho-Babble! Thanks for that information about Naltrexone. I'm sure it will help someone. I hope you'll join in on the conversations here as well.
>
> DenebYour welcome Deneb. I just wanted to set the record straight as many seemed to have some common misconceptions about Low Dose Naltrexone. It is a very beneficial therapy for the vast majority of users. The statistics quoted in regard to those who benefit were also inaccurate with some 70 - 90%, depending on how you are measuring, of users do find it effective.
About 10 - 20% will experience mild transient side effects such as sleep disturbance and vivid dreaming, among others. Most of these pass quickly and are often avoided by starting with a very low dose and increasing gradually.
Many use a natural sleep aid such as Melatonin, GABA, Tryptophan, Herbal Sleep Aids or at times prescription sleep aids. Personally I find Melatonin adequate for this. Although I do use a combination of a sustained release and a fast release sub lingual Melatonin to work the best for me.
Please everyone remember to sign the EU Petition. And tell your friends and networks about LDN and the Petition. Our power to overcome the disinformation from Big Pharma is to spread the word directly!
Anyone in any country can sign so please help us promote the human right to access and full disclosure by physicians of information on the benefits of LDN in MS. HIV/AIDS, Autism and all autoimmune diseases and some Cancers.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ldnnow/
www.ldnnow.com
Dr Chris Steele MBE, ITV's This Morning
supporting LDN
Posted by Phillipa on January 15, 2010, at 10:43:44
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 8:29:27
I will read the links later thanks for providing them. But the ldn isn't good for hasimotos thyroiditis is it or osteoporosis? That's what I gleaned from the other thread on ldn. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 11:20:02
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information » Garnet_LDN, posted by Phillipa on January 15, 2010, at 10:43:44
> I will read the links later thanks for providing them. But the ldn isn't good for hasimotos thyroiditis is it or osteoporosis? That's what I gleaned from the other thread on ldn. Thanks Phillipa
Many people take it for Hashimoto's Thyroiditis as far as I know. There is a Thyroid list that discusses it, among other treatments. And the main list has reports of many people having to reduce their Thyoid supplement after starting LDN, not sure of the time frame, some rather quickly if memory serves.Thyroid List
Many on this list take LDN
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones
I have not seen that many reports on osteoporosis but LDN can have a hormone balancing effect. Because osteoporosis is related to reduced estrogen there could be a benefit. So many aspects of improved health from LDN have not been studied. Moslty it is used by those with MS and other serious autoimmune disorders. Takes some digging to find it, but we are trying to change that.Increased libido and decreased hot flashes have been reported by some. Dr Jaquelyn McCandless, who is 75, takes it and has all her patients over 60 take it. She is also running an HIV/Aids trial in Mali, Africa. As well as modertaing two LDN Yahoo lists, one for Autism and one for HIV/AIDS.
She is a neuro psychiatrist who became involved in LDN when one of her grandchildren was diagnosed with Autism. She wrote a book called Chilren With Starving Brains.
Many take LDN for prevention of degenerative and infectious diseases. Personally my hot flashes have lessened, not eliminated yet but it has not been that long. Arthritis is better. I have not had a cold or the flu since taking it -- used to get every thing that went around. I take 2.0 mg every three or four days. Worked up slowly though from 0.5 mg, increasing by 0.25 mg every two weeks.
Posted by bleauberry on January 15, 2010, at 16:25:11
In reply to Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on January 14, 2010, at 16:33:44
I am a big fan of LDN. My first trial with it ended in failure when I tried to increase higher from 1.5mg after 2 weeks. Knowing what I know now, my optimum dose is probably 1.5mg max, less maybe better, every other day instead of daily makes a lot of sense to try too. I also discovered that taking in the prescribed timeframe (9pm-midnight) was too late. It worked better for me if taken around 7pm-8pm. Everyone's body clocks and biochemistries are different, so some experimentation makes sense. One size rarely fits all, I think.
There are few pills, herbs, or supplements that have the potential to benefit a wide variety of ailments from A to Z, but I think LDN is one of them, if not the only one.
The common side effect of sleep disturbance I think I only had for one night. After that my sleep was greatly improved. Anxiety went to zero. Social comfort in a crowd was perfect. Very peaceful even in a heated argument. More energy. More clear-headed instead of brain fog. Better moods, that came in sporadic waves (probably a hint of improvement beginning). But 3mg definitely worsened my depression and erased all the gains I had made on 1.5mg. Scared me off.
So a retry is definitely in order.
Posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 16:39:01
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by bleauberry on January 15, 2010, at 16:25:11
> I am a big fan of LDN. My first trial with it ended in failure when I tried to increase higher from 1.5mg after 2 weeks. Knowing what I know now, my optimum dose is probably 1.5mg max, less maybe better, every other day instead of daily makes a lot of sense to try too. I also discovered that taking in the prescribed timeframe (9pm-midnight) was too late. It worked better for me if taken around 7pm-8pm. Everyone's body clocks and biochemistries are different, so some experimentation makes sense. One size rarely fits all, I think.
>
> There are few pills, herbs, or supplements that have the potential to benefit a wide variety of ailments from A to Z, but I think LDN is one of them, if not the only one.
>
> The common side effect of sleep disturbance I think I only had for one night. After that my sleep was greatly improved. Anxiety went to zero. Social comfort in a crowd was perfect. Very peaceful even in a heated argument. More energy. More clear-headed instead of brain fog. Better moods, that came in sporadic waves (probably a hint of improvement beginning). But 3mg definitely worsened my depression and erased all the gains I had made on 1.5mg. Scared me off.
>
> So a retry is definitely in order.You are not the first person I have found that had problems when they tried to go to 3 mg. Whether it is a matter of how fast you are increasing or how often you are dosing, or the actual dose I am not clear.
I started the Very Low Dose Naltrexone list to try and collect all of these stories on one list, share experiences and see if putting our heads together might not lead to new solutions for those who encounter difficulties with the Bihari Protocol.
Some people actually prefer to take their LDN in the morning. There are two endorphin peaks every 24 hours, one around 3 AM and one around 1 PM. The idea is to reach peak plasma levels of LDN, which takes about an hour, maybe less if you are using liquid or cream, by the time the endorphin levels are peaking.
But results are what tells the real story so I am with you on playing around until you find what works for you. As I have often said in relation to LDN you can not argue with success.
Thanks for your comments.
Posted by bleauberry on January 15, 2010, at 18:00:31
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 16:39:01
Daytime dosing. I am definitely going to try that and see what happens. I had no idea other people were doing that.
Thank you for sharing. Awesome.
> >
> > So a retry is definitely in order.
>
> You are not the first person I have found that had problems when they tried to go to 3 mg. Whether it is a matter of how fast you are increasing or how often you are dosing, or the actual dose I am not clear.
>
> I started the Very Low Dose Naltrexone list to try and collect all of these stories on one list, share experiences and see if putting our heads together might not lead to new solutions for those who encounter difficulties with the Bihari Protocol.
>
> Some people actually prefer to take their LDN in the morning. There are two endorphin peaks every 24 hours, one around 3 AM and one around 1 PM. The idea is to reach peak plasma levels of LDN, which takes about an hour, maybe less if you are using liquid or cream, by the time the endorphin levels are peaking.
>
Posted by Green Willow on February 5, 2010, at 21:56:45
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on January 15, 2010, at 16:39:01
> Some people actually prefer to take their LDN in the morning. There are two endorphin peaks every 24 hours, one around 3 AM and one around 1 PM. The idea is to reach peak plasma levels of LDN, which takes about an hour, maybe less if you are using liquid or cream, by the time the endorphin levels are peaking.
>Garnet, I take ldn (3 mg.) with great results, but I do have a problem with waking up in the morning since I have been on it. I have delayed sleep phase disorder and my natural circadian rhythm has me sleeping from about 3:30 a.m. till 11 a.m. I would like to readjust this (sleep doctor wants me to use light box for an hour every morning before 10 a.m.), but I simply cannot wake up that early since I have been on ldn. Before the ldn, I could set the alarm and get up in the morning earlier if I needed to, but since I've been on it, I just can't rouse myself no matter how hard I try. Would you have any knowledge about when my endorphins might be peaking and what my ideal time to try taking ldn would be? Is there any test (such as saliva testing or anything) to see when my endorphins peak? Thanks, Green Willow
Posted by Garnet_LDN on February 5, 2010, at 22:07:00
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information » Garnet_LDN, posted by Green Willow on February 5, 2010, at 21:56:45
> Garnet, I take ldn (3 mg.) with great results, but I do have a problem with waking up in the morning since I have been on it. I have delayed sleep phase disorder and my natural circadian rhythm has me sleeping from about 3:30 a.m. till 11 a.m. I would like to readjust this (sleep doctor wants me to use light box for an hour every morning before 10 a.m.), but I simply cannot wake up that early since I have been on ldn. Before the ldn, I could set the alarm and get up in the morning earlier if I needed to, but since I've been on it, I just can't rouse myself no matter how hard I try. Would you have any knowledge about when my endorphins might be peaking and what my ideal time to try taking ldn would be? Is there any test (such as saliva testing or anything) to see when my endorphins peak? Thanks, Green WillowEveryone's endorphins peak at the same time, with the night time peak around 3 AM being larger and the afternoon peak around 1 PM being smaller.
If it is interfering with your schedule taking it in the evening then try to take it in the morning,
between 9 and 11 AM, should produce a peak blood level in time to affect the endorphin production at 1 PM.There are people who only take LDN twice a week or every other day, and they still benefit.
Dr Ian Zagon has stated that twice a week may be all that is needed, based on his research in animal models with LDN and Met5enkephaline, the main endorphin that is increased and through which LDN seems to work.
Due to tissue accumulation and variance in rate of clearing LDN some people do better taking it every other or every three days.
There are no clinically available tests for endorphins yet. They are limited to research environments, so yes they exist but not for patients unless you are in a study.
Posted by Green Willow on February 8, 2010, at 19:58:02
In reply to Re: Low Dose Naltrexone Information, posted by Garnet_LDN on February 5, 2010, at 22:07:00
> If it is interfering with your schedule taking it in the evening then try to take it in the morning,
> between 9 and 11 AM, should produce a peak blood level in time to affect the endorphin production at 1 PM.
>Ok, I'll skip my dose tonight and then Wed. a.m. will take and see what happens. Thanks ~ !
This is the end of the thread.
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