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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
took my first dose of 10mg this morning (5 hours ago). felt a little stimulated, but not in a pleasant or uplifting way. i feel sad ... like nothing will help me at this point ... like no drug will ever get me thinking clearly again ... that all i'm doing is ingesting panaceas designed to numb me to that fact. it's way too early to be complaining, i realise, but still ... OCD is plaguing me with doubts ...
i have this mental itinerary of all the things i should be doing to make my life better ... exercising, reading, socializing, but don't have the will or executive function to even begin structuring a 'day'. still, for some reason i keep telling myself that i'm not depressed. sorry, i'm just so bored ... it feels like i live my life waiting out doctor and specialist visits. i'm going to go out for a walk now. it's the least i can do ...
Posted by willyeee on September 6, 2009, at 22:40:08
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
My friend a day of 10 mg parnate is nothing to expect.One thing about parnate is even when it doesent seem to lift depression,it takes the gut wrenching fear of depression away.Sorta like ok im depressed f- it.At its worst it numbs you without decreasing cognitve action like ssris which made me feel dumb as a brick.
One thing about parnate is it made me very confrontational because i felt numb and brave,hence maybe the enhanced social action of the drug,you dont really fear much.
Even today im just learning how to control my temper on this drug.
NOTE: I only speak of course from my own perspective,this id hope goes without saying.
> took my first dose of 10mg this morning (5 hours ago). felt a little stimulated, but not in a pleasant or uplifting way. i feel sad ... like nothing will help me at this point ... like no drug will ever get me thinking clearly again ... that all i'm doing is ingesting panaceas designed to numb me to that fact. it's way too early to be complaining, i realise, but still ... OCD is plaguing me with doubts ...
>
> i have this mental itinerary of all the things i should be doing to make my life better ... exercising, reading, socializing, but don't have the will or executive function to even begin structuring a 'day'. still, for some reason i keep telling myself that i'm not depressed. sorry, i'm just so bored ... it feels like i live my life waiting out doctor and specialist visits. i'm going to go out for a walk now. it's the least i can do ...
Posted by ace on September 6, 2009, at 23:31:52
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
> took my first dose of 10mg this morning (5 hours ago). felt a little stimulated, but not in a pleasant or uplifting way. i feel sad ... like nothing will help me at this point ... like no drug will ever get me thinking clearly again ...
This feeling is common, try your very best to endure it, we are all batting for you. As time passes things will get better....hold on to that thought...
that all i'm doing is ingesting panaceas designed to numb me to that fact. it's way too early to be complaining, i realise, but still ... OCD is plaguing me with doubts ...
Release that it's the OCD not YOU....isolate yourself from the OCD thoughts. Watch them...see them as aberrant biochemical activity
>
> i have this mental itinerary of all the things i should be doing to make my life better ... exercising, reading, socializing, but don't have the will or executive function to even begin structuring a 'day'.Oh boy! I know this feeling! What I suggest is just start with 2 things- 1 hour reading, 1/2/3 hour going out socializing...library, shops, etc etc Be gentle with yourself and just accept the feelings for the moment, but do that one hour!
Then have a reward after each activity....3 weeks time it should take hold...each day build your activities up- add 1 every day...the impetus and motivation will come- it has too!still, for some reason i keep telling myself that i'm not depressed. sorry, i'm just so bored ... it feels like i live my life waiting out doctor and specialist visits. i'm going to go out for a walk now. it's the least i can do ...
Keep keeping on- you are doing an admirable job...
Peace,
Ace:)PS- give the Parnate time, I have a good feeling for you!
Posted by Justherself54 on September 6, 2009, at 23:49:54
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1 » g_g_g_unit, posted by ace on September 6, 2009, at 23:31:52
Hang in there. Parnate worked quickly for me, so hopefully it will for you..be kind to yourself as you're starting a new med. Maybe write a very small list of little things you'd like to do see if you can do...even if it takes all day to get one task completed (sometimes it takes me a whole day to get one little thing done)..
It's hard to wait to see if a med is going to work..my thoughts are with you.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 23:51:24
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1 » g_g_g_unit, posted by ace on September 6, 2009, at 23:31:52
> > took my first dose of 10mg this morning (5 hours ago). felt a little stimulated, but not in a pleasant or uplifting way. i feel sad ... like nothing will help me at this point ... like no drug will ever get me thinking clearly again ...
>
> This feeling is common, try your very best to endure it, we are all batting for you. As time passes things will get better....hold on to that thought...
>
> that all i'm doing is ingesting panaceas designed to numb me to that fact. it's way too early to be complaining, i realise, but still ... OCD is plaguing me with doubts ...
>
> Release that it's the OCD not YOU....isolate yourself from the OCD thoughts. Watch them...see them as aberrant biochemical activity
>
>
> >
> > i have this mental itinerary of all the things i should be doing to make my life better ... exercising, reading, socializing, but don't have the will or executive function to even begin structuring a 'day'.
>
> Oh boy! I know this feeling! What I suggest is just start with 2 things- 1 hour reading, 1/2/3 hour going out socializing...library, shops, etc etc Be gentle with yourself and just accept the feelings for the moment, but do that one hour!
> Then have a reward after each activity....3 weeks time it should take hold...each day build your activities up- add 1 every day...the impetus and motivation will come- it has too!
>
>
>
> still, for some reason i keep telling myself that i'm not depressed. sorry, i'm just so bored ... it feels like i live my life waiting out doctor and specialist visits. i'm going to go out for a walk now. it's the least i can do ...
>
> Keep keeping on- you are doing an admirable job...
>
> Peace,
> Ace:)
>
> PS- give the Parnate time, I have a good feeling for you!
>
thanks for the tips, especially regarding life structuring. that is something i have the most difficulty with. a huge component of my depression is related to my perfectionism, i.e. if i can't do *everything* i want to do, i won't do *anything*. i enjoy, as you mentioned, just walking around the city, but often feel too guilty to do so .. like i'm not doing anything meaningful with my life/time. i'll give reading a shot too.. the problem is i get bored reading trash, but find anything too complicated difficult at the moment.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 23:52:29
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by willyeee on September 6, 2009, at 22:40:08
> My friend a day of 10 mg parnate is nothing to expect.
i know. i have nothing to be complaining about. but my doubts always seem strongest at 'showtime'.
Posted by ace on September 7, 2009, at 1:44:04
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 23:52:29
> > My friend a day of 10 mg parnate is nothing to expect.
>
> i know. i have nothing to be complaining about. but my doubts always seem strongest at 'showtime'.Hey- this just is for exercise, but maybe you can extend it to other activities.
http://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Exercise-Regimen-and-Stick-to-It
I am no big fan of CBT, but David D. Burns, in his book, 'Feeling Good', has a chapter called 'Do Nothingness- how to overcome it', or words to that effect....he has some good stuff in their!
Keep marching on!
Ace:)
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 7, 2009, at 2:57:26
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1 » g_g_g_unit, posted by ace on September 7, 2009, at 1:44:04
thanks again ace. earlier i felt a little dopey/stimulated, but now the dopiness has worn off and i feel more anxious and alert, which is helping me do stuff at least. it would be nice if the alertness remained, and anxiety wore off. i don't want to spend too much time interrogating the drug this early into the trial, but even if parnate initially induces anxiety, can that later subside at higher doses?
i'm also taking l-methyfolate, methyl-b12 and b6 which i know can potentiate psych drugs, so maybe i should lay those off for a while ... but i do require them for a B12 deficiency.
sigh, sorry for all the q's .. but as most people know i imagine drug trials are hard.
Posted by maxime on September 7, 2009, at 11:11:03
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
Sorry that you are feeling so glum. :( When I was on Parnate I only felt a positive effect once I got to 30mg. I guess you will have to be patient which I know is hard when you are feeling so bad. I am in that place too and it's not nice. Hang in there.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 7, 2009, at 15:11:33
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
> took my first dose of 10mg this morning (5 hours ago). felt a little stimulated, but not in a pleasant or uplifting way. i feel sad ... like nothing will help me at this point ... like no drug will ever get me thinking clearly again ... that all i'm doing is ingesting panaceas designed to numb me to that fact. it's way too early to be complaining, i realise, but still ... OCD is plaguing me with doubts ...
>
> i have this mental itinerary of all the things i should be doing to make my life better ... exercising, reading, socializing, but don't have the will or executive function to even begin structuring a 'day'. still, for some reason i keep telling myself that i'm not depressed. sorry, i'm just so bored ... it feels like i live my life waiting out doctor and specialist visits. i'm going to go out for a walk now. it's the least i can do ...Good Luck to you! This is a strong med that has a high rate of success if you give it a chance.
Don't fight this med with anti-med thoughts as that often is a big reason for med failures. Diet and exercise are great but let them work with the med. Let them be synergistic. Believe in your med as that will help you succeed.
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on September 7, 2009, at 16:21:47
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
Hi ggg:
Don't worry, it will work! It took over six weeks and the addition of nortriptyline before my 60mg of Parnate kicked in! And I felt awful the whole time. My hands, face, arms and feet were swollen and itchy/prickly and so on and on. It DID kick in!! and all those SEs are gone except the dry mouth. The fatigue never went away but the Provigil takes care of that.
Some people feel it within a few days. We are all so different! I know it will work for you!! I think physical exercise makes mine work better, so you might try more of that if you're so inclined.
Hang in there! Be patient and you, too, will be in the satisfied Parnate Users Club!
Gayle
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 7, 2009, at 17:37:50
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on September 7, 2009, at 16:21:47
thanks guys. my pdoc doesn't really want to go higher than 30mg; given that my depression feels milder than a lot of cases here, hopefully that will be sufficient.
i took 1mg of time-release melatonin last night and slept for 10 hours, but don't really feel like i slept. is it okay to take melatonin with Parnate - at lower doses anyway? i'd prefer to hold off on the Seroquel as long as possible.
i'll try remain optimistic bulldog. i owe parnate a decent trial. what have i got to lose - except some zzz's
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on September 7, 2009, at 18:29:12
In reply to Re: Parnate + melatonin, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 7, 2009, at 17:37:50
Hi ggg:
We are all so different. I haven't had any insomnia on Parnate/Nortrip at all. The longer I'm on it (into the 5th month now) the better I sleep. So lets hope you wont have any insomnia that a little melatonin wont fix!
I upped my Parnate to 70mg. today. I sure hope my good luck continues.
Gayle
Posted by bleauberry on September 7, 2009, at 19:05:32
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
Just a word of encouragement. My first day on Parnate 5mg did not feel good either. I could feel it kick in, and when it did I felt dysphoric and more depressed sort-of. I definitely didn't feel better, and definitely felt in some indescribable way worse than before I took it. For some reason, Adderall makes me depressed. Parnate felt kind of like that a little bit.
Anyway, later in the day I felt a little better after the amphetamine part of it was over. At that point I knew I wasn't going to repeat another dose the next day. I wasn't making a commitment anyway. I was just doing a curiosity dip the toes in the water kind of thing.
So imagine my surprise when I woke up the next morning and felt somehow different. Some of the badness I wake to every day was kind of not there. Something different was there. I wasn't sure if it was good or bad, but it was different, and whatever it was it was better that what I was accustomed to.
That day I felt more comfortable in my skin, socialized more, talked more, brain fog was less. That night I played guitar like wow.
I am very sensitive and not the usual biochemistry of most people here. So maybe I am not a good comparison or not, I don't know. I just wanted to encourage you to not let the first day distract you in any way.
Your single dose has already disabled MAO enzymes permanently, even if you never take another dose. They will be replaced with new enzymes if you don't take another dose. But until then, the MAOI activity of Parnate continues for several days, even though the Parnate in your system is long gone.
I did 3 more mini-tests. Each time was the same. A bad first day. A good second day. Still a good third day. Some sliding backwards starting the fourth day. All from a single dose.
This is just for your reference. Everyone is different.
Posted by Phillipa on September 7, 2009, at 21:34:19
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by bleauberry on September 7, 2009, at 19:05:32
Have you continued on parnate? If not why? Phillipa
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 0:33:33
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by bleauberry on September 7, 2009, at 19:05:32
> Just a word of encouragement. My first day on Parnate 5mg did not feel good either. I could feel it kick in, and when it did I felt dysphoric and more depressed sort-of. I definitely didn't feel better, and definitely felt in some indescribable way worse than before I took it. For some reason, Adderall makes me depressed. Parnate felt kind of like that a little bit.
>thanks; i had a really similar experience to yours. yesterday morning i felt really despondent, until around 6pm, when i suddenly came to life and began engaging in some bygone leisure activities. i even forced myself too read, which i really have the wherewithal to attempt these days. my concentration wasn't all that much improved, but it was like i had more vigor to force myself through things.
today's been similar - well the bad part anyway; i feel really teary and introverted.
i hope i don't sound too negative; it just feels therapeutic to document my experience, which hopefully can assist others trialling the drug. from all the reports i'd read, i thought i'd feel an instant 'up', but it definitely seems like the stimulant effect doesn't agree with me. i think i'm going to be more aggressive with the dosing and move up to 20mg tomorrow, or thursday. no point dallying around.
Posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 8, 2009, at 4:11:45
In reply to Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 6, 2009, at 22:23:00
Definitely give it more time. One day is nothing.. I'd say give it a couple of weeks, and of course, go up on the medication.
I'm on Parnate 40mgs now. I felt mild improvements within the first 2 weeks, and another improvement when a small dose of 5mgs of adderall was added.
My doctor is going slow because I have hypotension, but we're trying everything and giving each dose/augmenter enough time to "kick in" and start doing what it's supposed to do.
I know depression sucks, and I've had my own days of complete hopelessness over ever finding something, but one day is really very little to make such a judgment. Once you get to 40-60mgs and augment, then you can start to worry whether it's going to work or not.
Best of luck
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 5:21:30
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1 » g_g_g_unit, posted by Girlnterrupted78 on September 8, 2009, at 4:11:45
> Definitely give it more time. One day is nothing.. I'd say give it a couple of weeks, and of course, go up on the medication.
>
> I'm on Parnate 40mgs now. I felt mild improvements within the first 2 weeks, and another improvement when a small dose of 5mgs of adderall was added.
>
> My doctor is going slow because I have hypotension, but we're trying everything and giving each dose/augmenter enough time to "kick in" and start doing what it's supposed to do.
>
> I know depression sucks, and I've had my own days of complete hopelessness over ever finding something, but one day is really very little to make such a judgment. Once you get to 40-60mgs and augment, then you can start to worry whether it's going to work or not.
>
> Best of luck
you're right; i'll try not to dwell too much. i just become concerned when i start off feeling *worse* than my baseline on a med. i'll raise the dose tomorrow and see how i go. i am seeing my pdoc in three weeks and definitely have no intention of discontinuing the med before then.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 23:16:05
In reply to Re: Parnate day 1, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 5:21:30
moved up to 20mg, and dropped the methyl-folate and b12 for the time being, just in case it was aggravating the drug's negative effects. i feel a definite upturn today - buzzed and euphoric, though slightly 'out of it' at the same time .. i'm having difficulty communicating with others and stumble for words ... hopefully i can achieve a cleaner, more stable anti-depressant effect soon. my blood pressure's dropped. anyway, i'll leave it at that for now, unless any dramatic changes come about.
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on September 9, 2009, at 0:17:07
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 23:16:05
ggg:
My pdoc made me promise I would give Parnate AT LEAST six months, if not more! It didn't kick in for me for 3 months when I was up to 60mg and added Nortriptyline. I was still tired so now I take Provigil and usually feel quite well, but I'm still going to keep fine-tuning it.
I felt really bad on it for at least 6 weeks. Everyone's chemistry is different!
Good luck,
Gayle
Posted by bulldog2 on September 9, 2009, at 16:17:33
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 23:16:05
> moved up to 20mg, and dropped the methyl-folate and b12 for the time being, just in case it was aggravating the drug's negative effects. i feel a definite upturn today - buzzed and euphoric, though slightly 'out of it' at the same time .. i'm having difficulty communicating with others and stumble for words ... hopefully i can achieve a cleaner, more stable anti-depressant effect soon. my blood pressure's dropped. anyway, i'll leave it at that for now, unless any dramatic changes come about.
Remember that depression is like a war and your situation did not evolve overnight. While these maois can work quickly one should be committed to a drug trial of weeks or even months. Ace one of our greatest success stories on Nardil often relates that it took him several months before he worke up one day with that wonderful "AH HA" feeling.
Posted by Maxime on September 13, 2009, at 11:54:16
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 8, 2009, at 23:16:05
How's the trial going now?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 16, 2009, at 3:10:20
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3 » g_g_g_unit, posted by Maxime on September 13, 2009, at 11:54:16
> How's the trial going now?
okay i guess. it's making my OCD a bit worse, but i'm way overdue for therapy (i didn't have the motivation to keep it up once the depression hit), so i'm going to re-enrol this week.
i'm also really frustrated because 20mg is having NO effect. my psych consulted a clinician's handbook before prescribing, which lists 30mg as the maximum dose, so i wonder how familiar he is with the drug. i wanna raise the dose quickly so i can get off this gross Seroquel as soon as possible. i promised myself that i wouldn't try play doctor with this guy, since my last psych seemed kind of threatened when i'd bring in my own research, but i'm not sure what to do. i can't sit at this dose for 3 more weeks til i see him. i'm thinking of just going up to 30mg on my own. didn't you say that was the minimum effective dose for you?
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2009, at 5:43:12
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 16, 2009, at 3:10:20
The US PDR and product label should contain the following verbiage:
"The usual effective dosage is 30 mg per day, usually given in divided doses. If there are no signs of improvement after a reasonable period (up to 2 weeks), then the dosage may be increased in 10 mg per day increments at intervals of 1 to 3 weeks; the dosage range may be extended to a maximum of 60 mg per day from the usual 30 mg per day."
All your doctor has to do is look it up. RxList keeps a copy of the wording of the information that is contained in the PDR.
http://www.rxlist.com/parnate-drug.htm
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on September 16, 2009, at 21:27:36
In reply to Re: Parnate day 3, posted by g_g_g_unit on September 16, 2009, at 3:10:20
I felt a positive effect at 30mg but I had to go up to 80mg to get a full anti-depressant effect. Your doctor is doing you a disservice. It's sad.
This is the end of the thread.
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