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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ricker on May 30, 2009, at 15:04:47
Some recent posts have me wondering as to how p/docs administer treatment? Pre-internet era treatment was probably much easier on the p/docs as their patients did not have the luxury of sites like this.
I know for myself, back in the late 80"s early 90"s, I had no clue as to what I was digesting in those orange capsules? Heck, I took Mellerill for 6 months in 1989 and was told it was a strong benzo....sounded good to me!!
The ability to educate oneself has never been more "easier" than it is today, thanks to the internet.
I bet if you were to survey 100 pdoc's with 20 years experience, 99 of them would say today's patient is much harder to treat in terms of compliance.
Patients present at the office with a preconceived thought of "what they need and what works best" notion.
I feel this has changed the way most p/docs, well a lot anyway, go about their practice? Is too much education a bad thing, do we surf the net neurotically looking for that magic bullet? I don't think so, but I'm quite certain psychiatric medicine, and perhaps all medicine, has changed in terms of doctor/patient relationship.
I could be way of base, but, I'd venture to guess Dr Bob is grinning as he reads this post, well maybe not... but if I was a betting man, he's still grinning!!!
Rick
Posted by shasling on May 30, 2009, at 16:18:15
In reply to E-Patient, posted by ricker on May 30, 2009, at 15:04:47
I agree,also there is the saying "dont do anything without consulting your doctor"yess always make final decisions with him,but i think thiss saying is primary prone to a time when all there really was were a pdr,and a doc who could read and understand it now.
Times have changed,opposed to a paragraph or two,we now have at our hands the ability to search published articles and abstracts,to read personal experiance from tons of users ranging around the globe,we now have the ability to read chemical make up,yes the actual chemistry of drugs,check interactions,and so on and so on.
This is a far cry from pre net days.Now i know its a touchy subject,even with this people get angry with even the idea that a person is encrouging another to do something without their doc.Well i respect that postion,but im sorry,i personly CANT stand around and suffer and put my health in the hands of one person,in fact i think its lazy for me not to put my heart and soul into everything i can do to help myself.
So yess i read,i collect info,i bring it in to docs who normaly until i found a good one seem to get defensive when i did.Sime logic says a doc who sees me less then a half hour every few weeks will have the time to put too much thought into my sickness.
Me however,i put my heart and sould into reading and searching,i put my blood into since i first learned how to use the net,i read it all,and in all honesty i found the most help in findings on the net.
A doc knows about many conditions so no im not smarter then a doc,i hate when people say"your smarter then a doc" NO!However in this one particular sickness i just might be,ive gone relentless knights reading books net documents etc,and maybe just maybe i know a bit more on this one small topic,is doesent matter lets just work togther,swallow prides and fix me.
Last i agree some look for a magic bullet,i gave that up a long time ago,now i just behave like a solider fighting a war and look for stuff to pack my aresnal with,i listen to my body when im sick and try to treat it.
However id be lying if i dont keep my eye open for that one site people missed with BANG a magic bullet,we all can hope right,friend saw my pc and expected to see porn,and said u have no porn just this med stuff,im so behind lol.
Posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2009, at 19:28:19
In reply to Re: E-Patient, posted by shasling on May 30, 2009, at 16:18:15
For me sometimes knowing too much such as side effects is detrimental to me as used to stuff and had no idea what the sides were or could be. Just a different slant. Like the pdoc here who insisted when new I take 120mg cymbalta I said no as the drug company only approved it for up to 60mg. Seems that has now changed. But when new was here. Phillipa
Posted by garnet71 on May 30, 2009, at 22:39:51
In reply to E-Patient, posted by ricker on May 30, 2009, at 15:04:47
That's a pretty good observation that may lead to changes in medical care if it already hasn't.
The "non-compliance" issue you spoke of-denotes a childlike relationship between a doctor and patient. I don't think doctors should have MORE say as to what we put in our bodies than we should have; it should be mutually agreed upon in most cases.
It was impossible for me to be compliant with my medications. I had a son to feed and support, a roof to keep over our head; no family to turn to for help in illness. The drugs were so debilitating for me, I'd be homeless and bankrupt if I was compliant, although I'm almost there anyway due to the meds I've been prescribed. I've heard many people say "talk to your doctor if you are experiencing adverse effects", as if it were so simple. You'd think it would be that simple. I told the last one who put me on those things, told him what they were doing to me. He said "what do you want me to do?" Instead of trying one of the dozen or more treatments for anxiety that exist, he said I was dumping my problems on him--in response to saying I could not function on a SSRI. This guy-an educated psychiatrist--actually had no alternative to an xxRI to treat me for anxiety.
I cannot support myself and be "compliant" at the same time, and unless that doctor wanted to pay my bills and support me and put my son through college, I had no choice but to find my own treatment. On the internet. Thank God I did.
Posted by ricker on May 30, 2009, at 23:19:57
In reply to Re: E-Patient, posted by garnet71 on May 30, 2009, at 22:39:51
> The "non-compliance" issue you spoke of-denotes a childlike relationship between a doctor and patient. I don't think doctors should have MORE say as to what we put in our bodies than we should have; it should be mutually agreed upon in most cases.
Yes, but in a lot of cases, the patient does not have the mental capacity to speak for them-self...
> It was impossible for me to be compliant with my medications. I had a son to feed and support, a roof to keep over our head; no family to turn to for help in illness. The drugs were so debilitating for me, I'd be homeless and bankrupt if I was compliant, although I'm almost there anyway due to the meds I've been prescribed.I agree, if a patient is prescribed the wrong meds, negative outcomes are a given... compliant or not.
> I've heard many people say "talk to your doctor if you are experiencing adverse effects", as if it were so simple. You'd think it would be that simple.
I find it quite simple to talk with my doctor. In order for my doctor to be of any help, the stage must be set via open and trusting communication - both ways, then the prescribing can start..IMO.
>I told the last one who put me on those things, told him what they were doing to me. He said "what do you want me to do?" Instead of trying one of the dozen or more treatments for anxiety that exist, he said I was dumping my problems on him--in response to saying I could not function on a SSRI.Changing doctors can be helpful.... :-)
> This guy-an educated psychiatrist--actually had no alternative to an xxRI to treat me for anxiety.I've heard one can create a very authentic looking diploma with the help of a computer!!! ;-)
> I cannot support myself and be "compliant" at the same time, and unless that doctor wanted to pay my bills and support me and put my son through college, I had no choice but to find my own treatment. On the internet. Thank God I did.
I think the only way to become self sufficient is to bee 100% compliant. Of course, as I mentioned, the right meds are required.
Hope you find those meds soon. :-)Rick
Posted by garnet71 on May 30, 2009, at 23:46:02
In reply to Re: E-Patient » garnet71, posted by ricker on May 30, 2009, at 23:19:57
Hey Ricker, Hi, I recently did find meds to help me better, thankfully by coming here. But when I did, the PDoc said he couldn't see me anymore becaues of his malpractice insurance.
It's not that simple to switch doctors. At that time, there were only 6 on my insurance list; I had tried 3 already with similar outcomes, and progressed to being in such bad shape, didn't even have the mental energy to wait 2 months for an appt., to try one of the other 3 from the list. Then I lost my insurance in Dec. due to not being able to work anymore becaues of the meds I was given. At that same time, I didn't have $$ to pay them $150-$300 for initial visits. After that doc I wrote about, I went back to old PDoc becaues of the fees of finding a new doctor.
You just don't have all those options when you are broke, cant' get out of bed, lose your health insurance, before that-the health insurance limitations themselves, and problems with my state regulations/the malpractice issue. It's anything but simple. It's been like a catch 22-couldn't get adequate health care due to my mental health state, but couldn't get to functioning mental health state to afford adequate health care.
I cant' believe how helpless I feel right now. I can't write my own scripts. I've gone through so much adversity in the past and have always found a way to overcome obstacles; I just can't believe it's come down to feeling like I have absolutely no control of my life due to not being adequately treated for my mental health. I feel helpless at the hands of doctors decisions, which seem to be more related to their issues rather than what they are treating me for. I can't deal with not having control of my mental function and my life. I have been an extremely resourceful person all my life, and for perhaprs the first time, feel so helpless. I don't know how much more I can take.
Thanks for listening.
Posted by ricker on May 31, 2009, at 0:28:39
In reply to Re: E-Patient, posted by garnet71 on May 30, 2009, at 23:46:02
Hi Courtney, I know that your current state of mind, along with all the external stresses...finance, school, kids etc. can become overwhelming at times.... believe me when I say "I know".
My last bad spell was this past Dec. and lasted approx. 4 months. I have a great p/doc, no financial worries and a great job so I can imagine the added worries you're currently struggling through.
A racing mind is the last thing you need, and yet it seems that's all you can do, worry about what tomorrow will bring, or feel guilty about yesterday's failures.
I can't imagine having to pay for my doctor visits and meds.... I do pay my monthly premiums although its a rather trivial amount for the unlimited services/meds.
But hey, I really believe most of "US" are actually stronger than the average joe! Sure we have a cycles filled with doom and gloom, that's what makes us stronger and more appreciative of what life has to offer.
Now, if I'd had read this post back in December, well, perhaps it may have helped, or not??
But here I am today and I did survive, and I'm going to continue doing so. And so will you Courtney!! You could be a p/doc visit away from some of the best days in recent time! So, try and remain positive, even when we hurt, we always find a way to move forward.I don't mean to trivialize your current state for I know just what you are dealing with now. So in a way, I do know more than the average p/doc.... the old experience over education adage!!
Hang in there girls, it's going to be a great summer!
Take care, Rick
Posted by garnet71 on May 31, 2009, at 1:00:18
In reply to Re: E-Patient » garnet71, posted by ricker on May 31, 2009, at 0:28:39
Hey again,
"You could be a p/doc visit away from some of the best days in recent time! So, try and remain positive, even when we hurt, we always find a way to move forward."
I think that's just what I needed to hear now. After I read that, I starting thinking that the new PDoc would be great and have a better remedy for me.
I realize, intellectually, that it's ok to ask for support, but it's scary to feel needy. I cannot remember the last time I felt this 'needy'.
And I realize I do need my meds and am having an anxiety attack. I kept procrastinating about picking them up, but now I really could use a xanax. I guess I'll settle for Kava.
A big thanks to you for reminding me to stay positive rather than let my anxiety take over. :)Night Rick..
p.s. i'm not Courtney. lol
Posted by Neal on May 31, 2009, at 1:10:55
In reply to Re: E-Patient » garnet71, posted by ricker on May 31, 2009, at 0:28:39
ricker-
As to the benefits of the internet, I just figured that my Pdoc had only 20 minutes every two weeks or so to concentrate on my case, and I had several hours to concentrate on it, so why not, it's not an unimportant issue after all.
I went for a short time to a depression/manic depression support group, and I was interested that folks would just put their lives in the hands of a stranger and say, "Cure me." Not that that doesn't work, it's just that I don't have that much trust on this issue. And some people would just take the same meds for years because their doctor said so, and yet they often were not doing the best that could be gotten IMO. Hey, the years are going by, man, and I can't wait that long.
Doctors by now are well aware of the internet. Any disease now has it's own net support groups. The perhaps danger is being too uninformed to understand the raw information that you get on the net, and not understanding the scientific method of testing for the truth of a statement. The answer is to get informed, so I spent years getting better informed, reading a lot of material.
Also, I guess there's a slight danger of becoming a hypochondriac, which should always be resisted if you see it happening in yourself.
Posted by ricker on May 31, 2009, at 1:20:40
In reply to Re: E-Patient » ricker, posted by garnet71 on May 31, 2009, at 1:00:18
> p.s. i'm not Courtney.
lol, it is getting late "garnet81" ;-)
This is the end of the thread.
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