![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 27, 2009, at 11:55:13
Since my last thread, I don't recieve real answers about the Clomipramine.
I was wondering if i'm the only one to use it on the babble forum for SAD and GAD and BDD...and also I want to know if it's normal that I feel exhausted, like I don't sleep since a lot of times, even if I sleep more than 6 hours at night... I also want to know how you can call this "problem" : Since I take the Clomipramine, I can't stop thinking about anything...I'm lying in my bed and inside my head I think more than usual...it's like I lived again the past 3 years of my life...the gods and bads moments... I always think and think...and that's make me crazy and a lot tired...and I feel a lot nostalgic...That's really strange...The clomipramine activate a lot my minds but don't give me more energy...I fear that I will endend up like the Prozac at more than 30mg, I mean that I will feel a lot excited and anxious, with no good effects on my SAD or GAD...and at the same time a lot tired...Since the Clomipramine is the more powerfull non-selective of the serotonin reuptake, I suppose it's relatively close to the Prozac effect no???
Anyway...is it a manic state or what? I really don't like that... I just want to stay in my bed all day long, feeling tired as hell but at the same time I can't sleep and I feel anxious...I hate that...
I'm wondering why I was not able to tolerate the heart effect of the Parnate, since at least with the Parnate, I see already a difference in my SAD level and my GAD level also...
Anyway, some help or some advises will help me a lot...thanks for your input...
Posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:07:50
In reply to Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ???, posted by Vincent_QC on February 27, 2009, at 11:55:13
> Since my last thread, I don't recieve real answers about the Clomipramine.
>
> I was wondering if i'm the only one to use it on the babble forum for SAD and GAD and BDD...and also I want to know if it's normal that I feel exhausted, like I don't sleep since a lot of times, even if I sleep more than 6 hours at night... I also want to know how you can call this "problem" : Since I take the Clomipramine, I can't stop thinking about anything...I'm lying in my bed and inside my head I think more than usual...it's like I lived again the past 3 years of my life...the gods and bads moments... I always think and think...and that's make me crazy and a lot tired...and I feel a lot nostalgic...That's really strange...The clomipramine activate a lot my minds but don't give me more energy...I fear that I will endend up like the Prozac at more than 30mg, I mean that I will feel a lot excited and anxious, with no good effects on my SAD or GAD...and at the same time a lot tired...Since the Clomipramine is the more powerfull non-selective of the serotonin reuptake, I suppose it's relatively close to the Prozac effect no???
>
> Anyway...is it a manic state or what? I really don't like that... I just want to stay in my bed all day long, feeling tired as hell but at the same time I can't sleep and I feel anxious...I hate that...
>
> I'm wondering why I was not able to tolerate the heart effect of the Parnate, since at least with the Parnate, I see already a difference in my SAD level and my GAD level also...
>
> Anyway, some help or some advises will help me a lot...thanks for your input...I had to discontinue Clomipramine because it made it so I couldn't get out of bed in the morning, and made my heart race. I also have SAD, GAD, BDD, along with depression, some OCD, and ADHD(in-attentive). I may try it again in the summer when I can afford to lie in bed all day if I need to.
I'm going to be starting Noritriptyline on Sunday. My pdoc likes the side effect profile of it better; we're going to test it to see if it effects my heart as well.
Stay with it! Most people say the sedation fades. I just can't deal with it right now, as if I stop going to school, I'll lose my financial aid and most likely be kicked out at this point.
- Mike
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 13:31:13
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ???, posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:07:50
Really? Any other meds with it and did you ever try luvox? Phillipa
Posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:38:30
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Incubusfan, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 13:31:13
> Really? Any other meds with it and did you ever try luvox? Phillipa
Never tried Luvox, Prozac, Celexa, or Lexapro. I've taken Zoloft, Paxil, and Effexor; all three succeeded in making me fat, but didn't help me.
If I were to try another SSRI, it would most likely be Luvox or Lexapro.
Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 13:57:27
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Phillipa, posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:38:30
I didn't get fat but never got to high dose only 50zoloft, luvox did get to 250 but then two weeks later pooped out I guess didn't know about poopout them. Isn't chlomipramine very strong? Phillipa
Posted by mav27 on February 27, 2009, at 17:12:44
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Phillipa, posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:38:30
> > Really? Any other meds with it and did you ever try luvox? Phillipa
>
> Never tried Luvox, Prozac, Celexa, or Lexapro. I've taken Zoloft, Paxil, and Effexor; all three succeeded in making me fat, but didn't help me.
>
> If I were to try another SSRI, it would most likely be Luvox or Lexapro.
>Both good meds, the Lexapro was the first one after 8 years of trying all the others to really break through my SAD, i took it with a small amount of clonazepam. And best of all it didn't have as severe sexual dysfunction as the other ssri's.
Posted by yxibow on February 27, 2009, at 17:31:55
In reply to Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ???, posted by Vincent_QC on February 27, 2009, at 11:55:13
> Since my last thread, I don't recieve real answers about the Clomipramine.
>
> I was wondering if i'm the only one to use it on the babble forum for SAD and GAD and BDD...and also I want to know if it's normal that I feel exhausted, like I don't sleep since a lot of times, even if I sleep more than 6 hours at night... I also want to know how you can call this "problem" : Since I take the Clomipramine, I can't stop thinking about anything...I'm lying in my bed and inside my head I think more than usual...it's like I lived again the past 3 years of my life...the gods and bads moments... I always think and think...and that's make me crazy and a lot tired...and I feel a lot nostalgic...That's really strange...
Feeling nostalgic for times when things felt 'better' is not something uncommon -- I do it a fair bit.But we do live in the Here and Now, the present and its important to recognize that strength lies in doing things, being more active to progress to a better state.
That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at the past as long as one doesn't continuously live in the past. But maybe I'm overemphasizing what you are saying.
The clomipramine activate a lot my minds but don't give me more energy...I fear that I will endend up like the Prozac at more than 30mg, I mean that I will feel a lot excited and anxious, with no good effects on my SAD or GAD...and at the same time a lot tired...Since the Clomipramine is the more powerfull non-selective of the serotonin reuptake, I suppose it's relatively close to the Prozac effect no???
>
> Anyway...is it a manic state or what? I really don't like that... I just want to stay in my bed all day long, feeling tired as hell but at the same time I can't sleep and I feel anxious...I hate that...I don't think it sounds like a 'manic' state.... it sounds like insomnia, foremost for sure.
> I'm wondering why I was not able to tolerate the heart effect of the Parnate, since at least with the Parnate, I see already a difference in my SAD level and my GAD level also...
>
> Anyway, some help or some advises will help me a lot...thanks for your input...
How much Anafranil are you taking? I currently take it for depression and potentially for an OC factor of a complex disorder.
When I went above 75 (to 100)mg the NE factor in it was too strong I think and it started to contribute to less functionality.
You may be experiencing anxiety due to norepinephrine factors, which can induce anxiety in those susceptible to it. I believe it is dose dependent.
If you continue to have problems with Anafranil, you might want to think to switch to Luvox (or Paxil, which does carry a possible moderate weight gain, but similarly is better for anxiety as is Luvox being not quite so activating.)
As for the tiredness, clomipramine, though an SRI, does have more side effects being a TCA.The aforementioned SSRIs are a bit cleaner and though 'sleepier' SSRIs may not be as much as Anafranil.
The only thing with Paxil besides weight is that you must be sure to keep up with medication because of withdrawal issues.
BDD (if I'm reading it as Body Dsymorphic) is sort of in the OC Spectrum disorder range, so perhaps that is why you are on Anafranil if you went through other agents, I'm not sure ?-- tidings
Jay
Jay
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 6:32:49
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ???, posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:07:50
> I had to discontinue Clomipramine because it made it so I couldn't get out of bed in the morning, and made my heart race. I also have SAD, GAD, BDD, along with depression, some OCD, and ADHD(in-attentive). I may try it again in the summer when I can afford to lie in bed all day if I need to.
>
> I'm going to be starting Noritriptyline on Sunday. My pdoc likes the side effect profile of it better; we're going to test it to see if it effects my heart as well.
>
> Stay with it! Most people say the sedation fades. I just can't deal with it right now, as if I stop going to school, I'll lose my financial aid and most likely be kicked out at this point.
>
> - MikeHi Mike ;-)
I totally understand why you stop it... That's funny how a med can act diffrently on someone else... The Clomipramine make me feel tired but I can't sleep...It's one of the most activating AD I try, but at the same time it's seem to activate some bad things like the repetitive thoughts inside my head and worse my social phobia problem as well... I also sweat a lot... IT doesn't make me feel PRO-social...and I don't want to get out of the house on it... I need a lot of energy just to get ready to going out and at daytime I just stay in my bed lying and watch the ceiling and thinks and thinks...I hate that...The nortriptyline seem to be a more good TCA's to try, I see my PDoc next week and I will ask to try it I think...since I don't like the Clomipramine effect...It doesn't make my heart race...but I ended up drinking more than 8 coffees a day to succeed to stay awake...and the insomnia problem seem to get worse on it also, even if I take some Seroquel at bedtime...The nortriptyline have a more sedative effect I think...so maybe it will be helping me at bedtime...
Anyway, did you have to do a 14 days of washout period between the Clomipramine and the nortriptyline??? It's the question I asked to myself... If a washout period is necessary, and i'm not accepted for the importation of the Marplan into the Canada, maybe trying again the Parnate will be more appropriate, since I feel an instant SAD reduction on it...even if it make my heart racing and hypotension was untolerable...
Anyway, thanks for your advise...I really appreciate that ;-) I wish you good luck for the nortriptyline and give me some news about it ok ;-)
Bye!
VIncent ;-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 6:39:52
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Incubusfan, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 13:31:13
> Really? Any other meds with it and did you ever try luvox? Phillipa
Hummm you know that I never try the Luvox... My BDD problem is close to a OCD problem, but the main problem is the SAD and GAD...and the dawn sedation at daytime, the lack of motivation and the lack of energy...I don't trust the luvox and my PDoc also, and I will never see the necessity to try it since all the others more selective SSRI's fails...
I think, with my own experience, that's for Social Phobia and GAD with depression, a drug who act more on the NE and DA with some gaba-energic will be more appropriate than a SSRI or a SRNI or the famous not so famous Wellbutrin or the Remeron...
The fact that I partially answer to the MAOI's, at least for the SAD, make this category to be a more good choice for me...but before jumping into the MAOI again, I have to test the nortriptyline...
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 6:51:18
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Phillipa, posted by Incubusfan on February 27, 2009, at 13:38:30
> > Really? Any other meds with it and did you ever try luvox? Phillipa
>
> Never tried Luvox, Prozac, Celexa, or Lexapro. I've taken Zoloft, Paxil, and Effexor; all three succeeded in making me fat, but didn't help me.
>
> If I were to try another SSRI, it would most likely be Luvox or Lexapro.
>
Hummm...I try all the SSRI's except the Luvox, The PRozac was the worst of them with his activating and sedation at the same time, that's not helping for the SAD and GAD...The Paxil was so so...a lot of sedation, a very small effect on the Panic disorder but not for the SAD, the problem I had back in 1995...I was on it for 4 years and never get any improve, the psychologist I had at the same time help me more I think...and I get a BIG weight gain on it...
The Zoloft make nothing on me, it's like a placebo...even at high dosage...No side-effect, no improve, just another weight gain...I was just eating more and more on it...
The Celexa...totally innefective on me, improve nothing, stay on it at 40mg for more than 3 months back in 1999... I just gain weight on it...
The Cipralex (Lexapro) was onw of the worst SSRI also...major weight gain, lot of memories problems and cognitives problem, strong daytime sedation, worse my lack of motivation and my level of interest on anything I liked before in my life...even with the addition of some Ritalin on the top of it, I had no energy at all... I try it also with some Wellbutrin...I just had more side-effect and no improve...I gain weight also...I think it worse all my problems...Seem like the most Selective med for the SE don't hit the good target in my brain...it's why I think the SE is not really linked to my SAD, GAD, BDD, panic disorder and depressive problems...
The Remeron is not effective also...make you sleep more well at first but just give another weight gain...and the list goes on...any off-label drugs never help as well, even the Gabapentin or the Lyrica... I never try the mood Stabiliser but I assume I don't need it for now, since my mood don't change a lot...
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 6:59:40
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Incubusfan, posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 13:57:27
> I didn't get fat but never got to high dose only 50zoloft, luvox did get to 250 but then two weeks later pooped out I guess didn't know about poopout them. Isn't chlomipramine very strong? Phillipa
Strong? You know my position on this point... That's not because a med is more older and more toxic at high dose that it make it a more STRONG drug... I had more side-effects on the newer stuff...the point is that for now, at 50mg of Clomipramine, I don't feel good...it's seem to worsing all my problems... i'm on it since 3 weeks and I see nothing , just another weight gain and a strange sedation/activation mood on me. Some people will tell me that the side-effects fade-away with time, that I need to go to dosage up to 125mg to see a difference, but I don't see why I will go more up than 50mg...I mean, I know myself and normally, if side-effects don't fade away on week 2, they stay there even if I augment the dosage of the drug or even if I wait 3 months...The fact that I also see a decrease in my state and the fact this decrease state effect don't dissepear after 2 weeks ,make me also not very positive about the Clomipramine...
Posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 7:32:44
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Vincent_QC, posted by yxibow on February 27, 2009, at 17:31:55
> > Since my last thread, I don't recieve real answers about the Clomipramine.
> >
> > I was wondering if i'm the only one to use it on the babble forum for SAD and GAD and BDD...and also I want to know if it's normal that I feel exhausted, like I don't sleep since a lot of times, even if I sleep more than 6 hours at night... I also want to know how you can call this "problem" : Since I take the Clomipramine, I can't stop thinking about anything...I'm lying in my bed and inside my head I think more than usual...it's like I lived again the past 3 years of my life...the gods and bads moments... I always think and think...and that's make me crazy and a lot tired...and I feel a lot nostalgic...That's really strange...
>
>
> Feeling nostalgic for times when things felt 'better' is not something uncommon -- I do it a fair bit.
>
> But we do live in the Here and Now, the present and its important to recognize that strength lies in doing things, being more active to progress to a better state.
>
> That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at the past as long as one doesn't continuously live in the past. But maybe I'm overemphasizing what you are saying.
>
>
>
> The clomipramine activate a lot my minds but don't give me more energy...I fear that I will endend up like the Prozac at more than 30mg, I mean that I will feel a lot excited and anxious, with no good effects on my SAD or GAD...and at the same time a lot tired...Since the Clomipramine is the more powerfull non-selective of the serotonin reuptake, I suppose it's relatively close to the Prozac effect no???
> >
> > Anyway...is it a manic state or what? I really don't like that... I just want to stay in my bed all day long, feeling tired as hell but at the same time I can't sleep and I feel anxious...I hate that...
>
> I don't think it sounds like a 'manic' state.... it sounds like insomnia, foremost for sure.
>
> > I'm wondering why I was not able to tolerate the heart effect of the Parnate, since at least with the Parnate, I see already a difference in my SAD level and my GAD level also...
> >
> > Anyway, some help or some advises will help me a lot...thanks for your input...
>
>
> How much Anafranil are you taking? I currently take it for depression and potentially for an OC factor of a complex disorder.
>
>
> When I went above 75 (to 100)mg the NE factor in it was too strong I think and it started to contribute to less functionality.
>
>
> You may be experiencing anxiety due to norepinephrine factors, which can induce anxiety in those susceptible to it. I believe it is dose dependent.
>
>
> If you continue to have problems with Anafranil, you might want to think to switch to Luvox (or Paxil, which does carry a possible moderate weight gain, but similarly is better for anxiety as is Luvox being not quite so activating.)
>
>
> As for the tiredness, clomipramine, though an SRI, does have more side effects being a TCA.
>
> The aforementioned SSRIs are a bit cleaner and though 'sleepier' SSRIs may not be as much as Anafranil.
>
> The only thing with Paxil besides weight is that you must be sure to keep up with medication because of withdrawal issues.
>
>
> BDD (if I'm reading it as Body Dsymorphic) is sort of in the OC Spectrum disorder range, so perhaps that is why you are on Anafranil if you went through other agents, I'm not sure ?
>
> -- tidings
>
> Jay
>
> Jay
>Hi Jay,
I Can assure you than thinking always about my past is not a sign that I feel "better"!!! I don't live in the past and I dont't want to live in the past, but the Clomipramine or all the newer SSRI's seem to have this kind of activation on the thoughts, especially the past...negative or good experiences...The fact that I can't stop thinking make me feel a lot tired at daytime... for the Insomnia, I use Seroquel (50mg) at bedtime and I can sleep 6 hours in a row but I feel tired at daytime as well...and its not because of the Seroquel next day sedation or accumulation of it into my blood...the regular seroquel have a half-life of around 8 hours...so that's not the cause of my daytime sedation, I had it before I begin to use the Seroquel anyway...I totally agree with you on some points but not all of them...The TCA's have more side-effects for the majority of peoples...but it's seem that i'm not like everyone else, cause I always more strong and bads side-effects on newer drugs like all the SSRI's...
For now, i'm on 50mg of Clomipramine, the TCA choice was due to the fact that it was the only class of AD's I never try. The Clomipramine choice was for the SE effect...and it's not linked to my BDD problem. The NE don't make my anxiety worse...in fact, I think it's more good for my SAD or my GAD...
I was on the Paxil or any newer SSRI's, I try all of them with no result on any of the problems, no improve also... I have (SAG, GAD, panic disorder, BDD, depression and lack of enery and motivation) ... No one of them help me to resolve at least one of these problems...I just gain weight on them...The fact that the SSRI's are more "clean" than the TCA's don't make them more tolerable or good... Newer drug are just more safe if take in overdose...that's it...the compagnies who produce the drugs don't want to be sue for death or anything else so they make newer drugs more safe in overdose...but that's not mean they are more efficiently or more good...I had more side-effects on the Cipralex than on any other AD's...The sedation and cognitives problems never resolves after I stop the Cipralex...so for the safeness of the SSRI's, i'm have a lot of skepticism... The Cipralex is suppose to be the more selective drug for the SE...but for me it was the worst experience of my life...Older AD's like Nardil or Parnate are more tolerable...on me...
I just weight gain on the SSRI's...and the Clomipramine seem to be the same because of it's SE effect...selective or not...I already gain some pounds in 3 weeks...without changing anything from my food intake...
That's why I will maybe ask to try the nortriptyline before jumping again in the MAOI's boat...seem like a more good idea...Second generation TCA's seem to be better than the first generation, they hit more the NE with some DA effects as well and they seem to have less anticholinergic side-effects than the older TCA's...
Anyway, thanks for your help jay ;-)
Posted by myco on March 3, 2009, at 23:38:16
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » yxibow, posted by Vincent_QC on February 28, 2009, at 7:32:44
Hey Vince,
How is the battle to import Marplan into Canada going? I'm waiting to find out what happens as I'm also interested in this med.
thnx
Myco
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 4, 2009, at 15:39:16
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Vincent_QC, posted by myco on March 3, 2009, at 23:38:16
> Hey Vince,
>
> How is the battle to import Marplan into Canada going? I'm waiting to find out what happens as I'm also interested in this med.
>
> thnx
> Myco
Hi Myco!
Well, you ask the question at the good time...I had an appointment this afternoon with my PDoc, since I stop the Clomipramine (2 days ago) cause I wasn't able to tolerate the side-effects (Worsing social anxiety and general anxiety and also a strange sensation of pins and needles all over my body and partuculary on my head...like I was listening to a music that I like a lot...I had this strange sentation always...)... Anyway, I had my results for my blood test, everything is fine, even my TSH (T3 and T4) and my anemia problem seem to resolve itself with the treatments of intravenaous iron (Venofer) I recieve each month, so now the anemia problem seem to not be the cause of my worsing problem of tiredness and fatigue at daytime...I can't do anything at daytime cause I feel so exhausted and tired that I just want to stay in my bed, lying and watch the ceiling...well I don'T answer to your question...lol (Next paragraph)...lol
I ask the PDoc about the Marplan process and if he recieve an answer from Health Canada... and the answer is no... I was not surprise anyway...The PDoc say it can take more than 2 or 3 months before I recieve an answer... One of the Pharmacist at the psychiatric hospital where I go communicate often with Health Canada to see how the things involve...but my folder is not already study by them...I'm in a kind of waiting list...
For now, the PDoc told me that if I wasnt able to tolerate the Clomipramine (one of the most powerfull serotonin reuptake, more than the newer IRSS), he said that my Serotonin is probably not implicated in my SAD or GAD problems...That's not new...I always told him and the others PDoc I had that the meds who hit hard the Serotonin always dicrease my mental state...
Since I had a gastric by-pass in 2001 and that I can't absorb the newer extends releases like the Effexor-XR or Cymbalta.... I never really try a med who work on the NE so it's why the PDoc agree to put me on the Nortriptyline, that's not a dual action med like the Effexor or the Cymbalta (SE + Ne), but at least, we will be able to see if i'm anwsering well to the NE...
The good news is that with the Nortriptyline, I will be able to have a blood test to see the level of the drug I can absorb... when I will be stable on the good dose...after the last increase of the dosage, I will have to wait 2 weeks before the blood test...
For the first time since I had my gastric by-pass, I will be able to see if my gastric by-pass have a bad effect on the absorbation of the meds I take... The by-pass I had work with a malabsorbtion process, means that I have only 1 meter of intestine who work now...the other part is cut and don't work anymore...it's why I take huge amount of Vitamins and iron each day...that's completly different from the very popular by-pass they do in the USA, that one is only restrictive...
Well that's all... I begin the Nortryptiline at 20mg/day first week, increase at 50mg week two, and 75mg week three...I can reach a maximum dose of 200mg if I can tolerate the drug well and if it's effective for my SAD, GAD, panic disorder and depression problems...
I will give more news about the Marplan after my next appointment in April...for now it's on the studying processing...
I have nothing to loose to try others meds until I got an answer from Health Canada...maybe I will finally find something who work on me... The SAD and GAD problem with depression is so hard to treat and so many neurotransmettors are implicated into these problems and it's also different for everyone, it's hard to predict the action of a drug on someone...especially on me, with that gastric by-pass...If I was aware of the complications I got from this surgery, I Will never had it done on me... but that's to late, yes i'm not affected now with a morbid obesity problem now, but I have a lot of physicals pain as well as a hernia that's have to be repair for the third times...as well as a lot of plastic surgery to remove the extra skin I have all over my body, but I don't work and I can't afford it for now, maybe I will stay all the rest of my life with a body that I hate...and that nobody else will be able to like also... anyway, that's another problem... no wonder why I have also a BDD problem (Body dismorphic disorder)... Maybe i'm just crazy...who know...
Can I ask you a question??? For now, what are you using as a med??? Is it you that was suppose to begin the Nortyptiline 2 weeks ago? I have a poor memory and I remember that I read that on the board, but I can'T remember if it was a message from you or not??? IF it's you, did you find the Nortyptiline effective and did you have a lot of side-effects???
Well, that'S all...take care of you Myco ...and BTW...id you find a solution for the insomnia??? My Seroquel dosage begin to loose a lot of his powerfull action on me...the 50mg don't make me sleep more than 4 hours in a row...before I was sleeping more than 6 hours, sometimes more than 8 hours in a row without even wake-up 1 time to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night... Maybe it was related to the Clomipramine also, because I was dreaming a lot on it...more than usual...vivid dreams...
Another time, take care of you ok ;-)
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2009, at 21:12:53
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » myco, posted by Vincent_QC on March 4, 2009, at 15:39:16
Vincent may be very late when get to your message. So sorry. Love Phillipa
Posted by myco on March 5, 2009, at 21:47:03
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » myco, posted by Vincent_QC on March 4, 2009, at 15:39:16
Hi Vince,
Getting Marplan up here is taking forever for you. My understanding is that through the 'special access program', the govt body dealing with importation of non-Canadian meds, you need to be assessed in terms of need, correct? So just simply requesting a med we dont have in distribution from another country isn't good enough I think. I think you have to show serious need and failure at available meds here in Canada before you can be considered...this is your case not mine since I havent tried every med out there and dont even have a pdoc. I think my chances are next to nil for Marplan. But thats ok, Nardil is very effective for me, at least for now. I am patient with the meds that I take when I take them...but I am always looking out for options...just in my nature I guess.
Vince that sensation of pins and needles you mention on Clomipramine sounds like NE stimulatory effect to me man...why does it bother you?...I enjoyed that part of nardil, I still have it to a subtle extent. It reminds me it's working still, the only positive physical reminder.
Nortrip and desip have always interested me, as well as doxypin. I'm toying with augment options I can take that wont mezmorize my family doctor like a deer in headlights. He doesnt like the idea of maoi+tca regardless of the studies I show him. So i'm using supplements like tyrosine, 5htp and about to start mucuna pruriens for extra dopamine...of course in very small doses because of the maoi interaction.
My sleep is alot better now that I have been given seroquel. I also take scullcap extract (works like a benzo) to relax me until seroquel puts me out. Usually 5-6h is typical but I will up the dose to 50mg i'm sure shortly.
I still want to try gabapentin or especially lyrica for sleep...I'm also thinking about the idea of getting multiple dr's, until I get a pdoc, but I'm not sure it's a good idea...what happens if they find out? Like one is rx'n nardil for me but hates benzo's...so I get a benzo from another then another I get a tca or something from unknowing i'm on nardil LOL jesus man this is sneaky sh*t here...lol...my conscience would eat me up. I dont know if lieing like that is a good idea despite the lack of proper treatment dealing with family dr's.
anyway,
take care Vince...try to get some enjoyment in your life also man...anything to smile and laugh ya knowmyco
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 6, 2009, at 10:10:21
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Vincent_QC, posted by myco on March 5, 2009, at 21:47:03
> Hi Vince,
>
> Getting Marplan up here is taking forever for you. My understanding is that through the 'special access program', the govt body dealing with importation of non-Canadian meds, you need to be assessed in terms of need, correct? So just simply requesting a med we dont have in distribution from another country isn't good enough I think. I think you have to show serious need and failure at available meds here in Canada before you can be considered...this is your case not mine since I havent tried every med out there and dont even have a pdoc. I think my chances are next to nil for Marplan. But thats ok, Nardil is very effective for me, at least for now. I am patient with the meds that I take when I take them...but I am always looking out for options...just in my nature I guess.
>
> Vince that sensation of pins and needles you mention on Clomipramine sounds like NE stimulatory effect to me man...why does it bother you?...I enjoyed that part of nardil, I still have it to a subtle extent. It reminds me it's working still, the only positive physical reminder.
>
> Nortrip and desip have always interested me, as well as doxypin. I'm toying with augment options I can take that wont mezmorize my family doctor like a deer in headlights. He doesnt like the idea of maoi+tca regardless of the studies I show him. So i'm using supplements like tyrosine, 5htp and about to start mucuna pruriens for extra dopamine...of course in very small doses because of the maoi interaction.
>
> My sleep is alot better now that I have been given seroquel. I also take scullcap extract (works like a benzo) to relax me until seroquel puts me out. Usually 5-6h is typical but I will up the dose to 50mg i'm sure shortly.
>
> I still want to try gabapentin or especially lyrica for sleep...I'm also thinking about the idea of getting multiple dr's, until I get a pdoc, but I'm not sure it's a good idea...what happens if they find out? Like one is rx'n nardil for me but hates benzo's...so I get a benzo from another then another I get a tca or something from unknowing i'm on nardil LOL jesus man this is sneaky sh*t here...lol...my conscience would eat me up. I dont know if lieing like that is a good idea despite the lack of proper treatment dealing with family dr's.
>
> anyway,
> take care Vince...try to get some enjoyment in your life also man...anything to smile and laugh ya know
>
> myco
>
>Hi Myco!
You're right, the SPA programm have hard standards of selection and if you want to be approved for the SPA programm, you need a PDoc, a family Doctor or a regular Doctor will not be accepted, well I don't think so...that's a long process and I don't know all the steps of it...but I know that someone work hard on it for me, and that it will take some more times to recieve an answer. Like I was saying, a Pharmacist from the Psychiatrict hospital where I go take care of it for me...I'm glad the Nardil is still working for you. Did you feel some effect on your SAD??? What kind of SAD did you have??? Is it worse when you are alone in a public place or it's a general social anxiety problem, mean that alone or with friends you feel always anxious in a social situation??? Mine is genreal...and more higher when i'm alone of course...just going to the shopping center make me really anxious...it take so many times before I even go out of the house and get ready to go there that I finally don't go... I avoid a lot social situations...more when i'm alone... That's crazy cause sometimes I think about it and I say to myself that's if I look around me, a lot of people are more ugly than me...so why I feel so anxious and shy... and why I lack a lot of social abilities like this??? I mean that i'm a nice guy, I think i'm looking really good, but I can't even meet new peoples and I lack any social skills...that's weird...anyway...
I got nothing really fabulous from the Nardil except that I was able to reduce my benzos intake on it...at 90mg I got this really "nice" hypotension problem that's is often present with the MAOI's...so I just stop, after more than 3 months, I was tired of wating for a positive answer. It was not a bad experience, but it was not working for me. Some people seem to put a lot of believe into the gaba-ergic effect of it but I don't believe it's really important since the Parnate seem to lack this gaba effect and had a more pronounced effect on me for the SAD and it was a really fast relief of my SAD, the first week I start it...but too bad I got too much hypertension or hypertensives crisis on it...Anyway...I think I drop it out too fast...
The NE effect of the Clomipramine can't be the good explanation of the strange pins and needles sensation I got from it. If you look close into the wikipedia website and you search for imipramine, you will fall on a "table" who show how amounts of SE, NE, DA, as well as others things some TCA's and some SRRI's affects...that's interresting to see the Clomipramine don't seem to affect a lot the NE...that's almost neutral for the NE...the SE effect of the Clomipramine is something like 200 times more higher than the one on the NE...so I don't know if it's comming from the NE effect or not, that's probably from another blocking effect , maybe the alpha???
I got also that pins and needles effect when I was on the Gabapentin med, and as far as I know, it's not acting on the SE or the NE or the DA...that's purely a blocking effect of the Gaba-B type of receptors...
I don't know if it's a good idea to get more than one Doctor to have access to meds you want to add to your Nardil... I still have a family Doctor who prescribe to me the Seroquel and I try to get some meds as an augmentation for the Clomipramine as well as a more high dose of Parnate when I try it in december, I wanted to add some Baclofen med on the top of the Clomipramine, my PDoc don't want to try the Baclofen on me so I try to have it with my family Doctor, I show to him some studies about it...and he say NO because he say that the agonist effect of the Gaba-B of the Baclofen was never use off-label as an anxiolitic med in the Canada...and he don't want to be responsable of bad med interraction...
I think that your Pharmacist can discover the fact that you have more than one Doctor and he can call one of your Doctors and ask why you have some meds prescribed for you that cannot be uses at the same time than other ones...it's why I always fear to procced like this.,.
I also now understant that it's important to follow the instruction of your Doctor...I was always finding myself to take higher dosage of my meds and I drop out severals meds because I got too much side-effects on them..but it was because I Wanted to go too fast... I still have some difficulties to wait before seing some improvements and I still drop often some meds rapidly before I can say if it's really work or not...
Normally, i'm good to predict if a med will work or not, so it's why I drop out a lot of meds after only 3 or 4 weeks... Sometimes I can feel on the first dose of a med I take that I will wait 1-2 or 3 months for nothing...I'm very sensible to the side-effects and normally they don't fade away on me...
Well, for now, the Nortryptiline give me a high pulse rate for maybe 2 hours, my heart race fast on it, especially 1 1/2 hours after I take my first 10mg dose in the morning, it's worse when I take the second 10 mg dose at noon...Yesterday, my pulse rate go up to 145...and I Was not doing anything physically...I was just lying in my bed all day long... My blood pressure was ok...120/80... so I think this side-effect will fade away with time...I hope...that's probably the NE effect...and I don't get the pins and needles effect that I experienced with the Clomipramine but I can say that for now, the Nortryptiline is A WAY more activating than the Clomipramine and it make me a little bit nervous, but nothing to drop it out already...all the antidepressants increase a little bit the anxiety level at first...I incrase my Valium intake for now...nothing really important...20 to 30mg maximum daily...I will withdraw it when I will be less anxious...
For now, all I hope is to have access to the Marplan. I don't have a good feeling about TCA's, studies over the years show a not so good effect on the SAD with the use of TCA's...and for now, the only antidepressants who give to me a "partial" answering are the MAOI's...so it will be probably the only category of meds who will help me...
I just trying the TCA's to make sure I don't make a mistake to not trying them and I want to give to them a try at least... Health Canada will not be able to said that I don't try everything at least...
If i'm not accepted for the importation of the Marplan, I will maybe ask to return on the Parnate at a really small dosage (20mg) and wait to see what happen...maybe add something to reduce my hypertension on it will help me...
If the Nortryptiline work and I get a positive answer for the Marplan, I will drop out the Nortryptiline for sure and jump into the Marplan.
You see, I have a lot of others options...I just don't feel very positives about the TCA's... at least, I don't put a lot of pressure on me and on them... I see the TCA's options as a temporary solution, until I recieve an answer for the Marplan.
Well, i'm glad the Seroquel make you sleep at least 5-6 hours...that's what I get from it at first...the main problem is that I always think my energy level at daytime was linked to the numbers of hours of sleep I get from the night....but I see now that's even if I sleep more than 8 hours in a row, I'm still very tired at daytime...so i'm probably more depressive than I think. But that's normal to be depressive when everything you try since more than 2 years fails...
That's a really hard situation and I don't wish this to anyone else...social anxiety disorder with others co-morbidities is a really hard mental illiness to treat... I really hope you will find a way to get more well soon!!! You deserve it also!!!
Well , I have to go for now, but if you want to talk, I will be always here for you!!!
Take care of you and keep the faith!!!
Bye!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by desolationrower on March 6, 2009, at 16:53:29
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » myco, posted by Vincent_QC on March 6, 2009, at 10:10:21
desmethylclomipramine is a strong nri
using ldopa without the right drugs will mostly just affect your blood pressure and give nausea...
-d/r
Posted by Incubusfan on March 6, 2009, at 22:39:51
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » myco, posted by Vincent_QC on March 6, 2009, at 10:10:21
I've also switched from a trial of Clomipramine to a trial of Noritriptyline.
20MG of Noritriptyline so far has caused basically no side effects vs 25mg of Clomipramine which would made me fatigued, tired, lethargic, high heart rate, etc. My doctor wants me to test low doses to see if I tolerate this better.
Good luck.
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 7, 2009, at 15:38:21
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Vincent_QC, posted by Incubusfan on March 6, 2009, at 22:39:51
> I've also switched from a trial of Clomipramine to a trial of Noritriptyline.
>
> 20MG of Noritriptyline so far has caused basically no side effects vs 25mg of Clomipramine which would made me fatigued, tired, lethargic, high heart rate, etc. My doctor wants me to test low doses to see if I tolerate this better.
>
> Good luck.Hi !
Wow, that's so weird how a med act on a person to another person. I encounter the opposite effect. The Clomipramine at 50mg was more easy for me than a small 20mg dose of Nortryptiline. The Clomipramine make me mentally tired, but I didn't had a lot of side-effects (except goosebumps and sedation) but no side-effect on my blood pressure and heart rate and after 3 weeks, no improve on my SAD or GAD or depression...nothing...I take the decision to Stop the Nortryptiline after I take my last 10mg dose at noon today. My heart pluse go up to 165, I was out of breath for almost 2 hours...that's very not good for the panic disorder and for the GAD as well...now, after 4 hours my pulse rate is around 125...still very high...and I got this strange headache and sensation on my left temple...I hate that!!!
That's seem that I don't tolerate well the NE effect of the Nortryptiline...so the guy who was talking about the reuptake of NE and the worsing effect on the SAD was right I suppose... I prefer the inhibition of the NE cause by the MAOI's...at least, they don'T make me fell like my heart will explose because he beat too fast...but I still get hypertensives crisis on them as well as hypotension orthostatic...semm like regular side-effects on everyone who use them...
I will have to call my PDoc monday morning and maybe ask to stop everything for at least 14 days and be back again on a low dose of Parnate, the only thing that have an immediate effect on my SAD...but also giving me some hypertension problem...the 20mg dose will be probably the target for me...that's better than nothing... Or maybe switch to the Surmontil (Trimipramine) who seem to be more sedative but more good for the anxiety...ans less hard for the heart...
Well good luck with the Nortryptiline, I hope everything will be ok for you!!!
Take care!
Vincent ;-)
Posted by desolationrower on March 7, 2009, at 16:03:31
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ??? » Incubusfan, posted by Vincent_QC on March 7, 2009, at 15:38:21
there aren't many drugs that will work well within the first few days.
-d/r
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 8, 2009, at 11:01:33
In reply to Re: Clomipramine (Someone else take that AD now) ???, posted by desolationrower on March 7, 2009, at 16:03:31
> there aren't many drugs that will work well within the first few days.
>
> -d/r
I know that -d/r ...but having such a high reaction to a small dosage is not normal...that's the difference...Maybe if I will continue it the side-effect will disepear, but maybe not...and before it fade-away what I do??? I ended up at the emergency for a heart attack???? That's not very logical...I don't argue about the fact that drugs don't make good effect on day one...But what I experienced mean what it mean...that's not for me...even if I only do a 3 days on it, my life worth more than a small pill of Nortryptiline...and I Will not play my life on it!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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