![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by aminated on December 5, 2008, at 15:37:46
In reply to Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 14:44:12
Try benadryl. Or go natural and give Valerian root (1-2 caps)--it doesn't really make me sleepy, but I fall asleep easily when i take them.
Posted by Quintal on December 5, 2008, at 16:28:23
In reply to Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 14:44:12
Klonopin 4mg seemed to work years ago. I didn't need another sleep med on top of that. I'm in the same place now with zopiclone - 15mg a night and it isn't working any more. I take Benadryl or Phenergan when I'm having extra trouble falling asleep. Some people have used trazodone with MAOIs.
Q
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 16:31:48
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » ParnateStarted2008, posted by aminated on December 5, 2008, at 15:37:46
> Try benadryl. Or go natural and give Valerian root (1-2 caps)--it doesn't really make me sleepy, but I fall asleep easily when i take them.
I haven't tried Valerian Root, so ill try that and see, my GF has some so I dont have to go buy some. Melatonin doesnt do anything anymore. Benedryl I can only use for a couple days before it would take a full box to do anything. Its really good once in a while foresure. Parnate is by far the most insomnia inducing drug ive ever taken, its working so im happy for that. Problem is that it takes an insanely high dose of any sleep med/combination to have a result, and sleeep.
7 years ago, before I was on any AD's Melatonin worked and so did tryptophan, when i did use them. I feel so desensitized now to everything...
thnx 4 the post
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 16:41:11
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Quintal on December 5, 2008, at 16:28:23
> Klonopin 4mg seemed to work years ago. I didn't need another sleep med on top of that. I'm in the same place now with zopiclone - 15mg a night and it isn't working any more. I take Benadryl or Phenergan when I'm having extra trouble falling asleep. Some people have used trazodone with MAOIs.
>
> Q
Hi, ya Zopiclone was great last year when i was on nardil, 7.5mg was like clock work. My psych from that time, when 1 pill stopped working he put me up to 30mgs(4pills). my new psych has me on 2+seroquel. Im going to the reg. doctor in an hour and ill get some trazodone. 4 mg's of klonopin might work but im weaning off benzo's. been on them wayy to long.
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 18:40:18
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » Quintal, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 16:41:11
Welcome to babble see your're new. Great knowledge here. Lots of choices for sleep meds they seem to affect everyone differently and at different time at least for me. Now on low dose valium, xanax. A few years ago was on chloral hydrate with the benzos no more. Seems like benzos are acting in reverse for me now so also weaning down now from 20mg of valium and .5 xanax to 12.5 valium and same still of xanax. Also take my luvox low dose but increasing it at night it potentiates effects of valium and xanax. Have also taken lunesta with benzos when sleep really bad. So for me chemistry keeps changing. Good luck in you Quest. How long have you been on the parnate? Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on December 5, 2008, at 18:59:48
In reply to Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 14:44:12
Well,
Seems we have a new poster. Welcome! As for your Parnate induced insomnia? Here's what I do: Go through the entire board and only look at the med names you've never heard of. Then set about to research them all in detail. Your eyes will start closing immediately.
"Zopiclons"... Are you kidding me, haha??!! Sounds like something from Star Trek. But...this is a med board so I better get with the program.
FYI-upped my dose to 50mg today. Had a rough patch Phil. I'll catch up with you later? I need some advises from my personal Parnate training coach.
Hope you are well other than sleep deprived!
Your friend,
~Jade
PS-there will be a slight surcharge for the new name, hah.
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 20:12:53
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » ParnateStarted2008, posted by JadeKelly on December 5, 2008, at 18:59:48
Oh now I get it well welcome anyway. Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 20:33:42
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 18:40:18
I take trazadone for this. works well.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on December 5, 2008, at 22:41:34
In reply to Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 14:44:12
> Hey, I guess you dont need to be on Parnate to know of a good sleep med. Im curious as to what people are using to cope with med induced insomnia.
> I currently take 15mgs of Zopiclone and 150mgs of Seroquel. Zopiclons lost its effectiveness even if i take 4, and Seroquel isn't as good as it was and it makes me a retarted zombie the next day..
> If you take a sleep med let me know, ThanksHey zombie, can you do me a favor? Are you from Canada? I'm assuming you are cause you mentioned a med a while ago called Alertec. A poster has questions cause its cheaper that Provigil which is really expensive here in US. S/he's towards the top, thread says "Provigil vs. Alertec", or something like that. Poster is Clipper40. I think s/he's frustrated and you'd be just the guy to help him/her!! (If you don't mind)
Thanks Phil!
~Jade
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 23:07:33
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 18:40:18
> Welcome to babble see your're new. Great knowledge here. Lots of choices for sleep meds they seem to affect everyone differently and at different time at least for me. Now on low dose valium, xanax. A few years ago was on chloral hydrate with the benzos no more. Seems like benzos are acting in reverse for me now so also weaning down now from 20mg of valium and .5 xanax to 12.5 valium and same still of xanax. Also take my luvox low dose but increasing it at night it potentiates effects of valium and xanax. Have also taken lunesta with benzos when sleep really bad. So for me chemistry keeps changing. Good luck in you Quest. How long have you been on the parnate? Love Phillipa
I guess Ive been on Parnate for 10 weeks, it kicked in at 60mg's/ day ( I have BP2 super rapid cycling and I think Social Phobia. But the doctor just thinks its anxiety from being bipolar.. Hard to know what they mean because I know I have SP and its very very bad since I was like 4 but being Bipolar made it hard to adress because I hit some extreamly high manias where I was a social butterfly). ME too, My benzo days are over for now, Im weaning off my final .75mg/day of clonazepam now. before that it was xanax and ativan(ativan seems really weak to me). I was taking 2mg zanax for a year, then switched to 2mg klonopin for a year. no effect anymore so i better get off before they reverse on me too. hopefully in the future i can use one as an as need basis..
Luvox! Ill really have to ask you about that in another post. If Parnate quits on me one day Luvox is my next option. I keep hearing better and better things about it.. anyway ttyl Phillipa
ps. my real name is Philippe lol
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 23:17:37
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » ParnateStarted2008, posted by JadeKelly on December 5, 2008, at 18:59:48
> Well,
>
> Seems we have a new poster. Welcome! As for your Parnate induced insomnia? Here's what I do: Go through the entire board and only look at the med names you've never heard of. Then set about to research them all in detail. Your eyes will start closing immediately.
>
> "Zopiclons"... Are you kidding me, haha??!! Sounds like something from Star Trek. But...this is a med board so I better get with the program.
>
> FYI-upped my dose to 50mg today. Had a rough patch Phil. I'll catch up with you later? I need some advises from my personal Parnate training coach.
>
> Hope you are well other than sleep deprived!
>
> Your friend,
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-there will be a slight surcharge for the new name, hah.
>
Hey Jade! yes you caught me with the name change, how much is the surcharge? lol. ok, ill see u on the other post to see how 50mgs is doing etc. later.. I better tell Phillipa I was a poster long ago called NardilStarted2007 but I only posted like once, Its so nice of her to be so welcoming and nice.. Thanks Phillipa. if you read this let me know so I know you know I appreciate the welcome (what a twist of words eh).
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2008, at 19:24:52
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia » JadeKelly, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 5, 2008, at 23:17:37
Well trying to help Bob out with the greetings of new folks. Got me. Love Phillipa
Posted by uncouth on December 11, 2008, at 15:59:15
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insomnia, posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 20:33:42
im on 70mg parnate and do agree, it's very sleep disrupting. my problem is middle of the night/early morning awakening, and not being able to fall back asleep.
50mg seroquel has been working although i feel a bit groggy the next day. 50mg of trazodone, sometimes 75mg, also sometimes works. but i've found if i combine the two, 50mg seroquel plus 25-50 traz, i am guaranteed to sleep. the morning hangover lasts for about 2 hours, but I SLEEP, soundly and deeply.
I suggest trying if you're sleep resistant. Ambien CR didn't work for me at 12.5mg, Lunesta which worked great on other meds didn't work on Parnate even at 6mg.
Xanax 0.5mg is also helpful, and i take it when i wake up in the middle of the night and it can help get me back to sleep sometimes.
Posted by JadeKelly on December 11, 2008, at 16:35:27
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » desolationrower, posted by uncouth on December 11, 2008, at 15:59:15
> im on 70mg parnate and do agree, it's very sleep disrupting. my problem is middle of the night/early morning awakening, and not being able to fall back asleep.
>
> 50mg seroquel has been working although i feel a bit groggy the next day. 50mg of trazodone, sometimes 75mg, also sometimes works. but i've found if i combine the two, 50mg seroquel plus 25-50 traz, i am guaranteed to sleep. the morning hangover lasts for about 2 hours, but I SLEEP, soundly and deeply.
>
> I suggest trying if you're sleep resistant. Ambien CR didn't work for me at 12.5mg, Lunesta which worked great on other meds didn't work on Parnate even at 6mg.
>
> Xanax 0.5mg is also helpful, and i take it when i wake up in the middle of the night and it can help get me back to sleep sometimes.Hi uncouth,
Do you find that the sleep problem goes away when you've been at a dose for a week or more? I get bad insomnia immediately following new dose 10mg, but I've been at 50mg for a week and slept for over 12 hours, maybe catch-up, don't know.
What I really wanted to ask you tho is how you're doing on Parnate, and how long you've been there? I don't want to give up after all the sides, etc., but I've been taking Parnate for almost 9 weeks. 6 weeks-30mg, 2 weeks-40mg, 1 week-50mg. Seems like I'd be feeling SOMETHING by now, shouldn't I? If you could share your experience with me I be most grateful. Its possible you have before but some time has passed and I'm wondering if this is not a good sign (9 weeks).Oh, Only other med is Klonopin, 1mg 3x day, for old nerve injury. I want to drop it but don't want s/e interfereing with Parnate. If Klonopin is interfereing with Parnate, I'd taper off as quickly as possible. No one I've asked thinks its that.
Thanks for any help,
~Jade
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 11, 2008, at 20:35:07
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » desolationrower, posted by uncouth on December 11, 2008, at 15:59:15
> im on 70mg parnate and do agree, it's very sleep disrupting. my problem is middle of the night/early morning awakening, and not being able to fall back asleep.
>
> 50mg seroquel has been working although i feel a bit groggy the next day. 50mg of trazodone, sometimes 75mg, also sometimes works. but i've found if i combine the two, 50mg seroquel plus 25-50 traz, i am guaranteed to sleep. the morning hangover lasts for about 2 hours, but I SLEEP, soundly and deeply.
>
> I suggest trying if you're sleep resistant. Ambien CR didn't work for me at 12.5mg, Lunesta which worked great on other meds didn't work on Parnate even at 6mg.
>
> Xanax 0.5mg is also helpful, and i take it when i wake up in the middle of the night and it can help get me back to sleep sometimes.Hi, Thanks for the input, good stuff. SO ya I would say im very very sleep resistant. sleep can always come another day 4 me. Lately ive been taking 50 - 150mg of seroquel with 50 - 75mg's of trazodone with 7.5 milligrams of zopiclone and some nights 2 mg's of clonazepam.. I manipulate This cocktail almost every night depending how I feel or if ive drunk alcohol.. so some times its more or less of one or the other lol, Even with all of that I still sleep very lightly and have very vivid dreams/nightmares.
I just upped Parnate to 70 mg's on Dec 9th.
-They say I have Bipolar2
-They say I get depressed and Manic
-I say I have social phobia with agoraphobia and panic.
Parnate is pretty much one of my last resorts here as ive gone down the path of all the other AD's.
Im curious to know how Parnate is working for you and (only if you want to say) what are you on Parnate for.
Thanks for your responce, its good to see how others are doing with sleep management so I can get a good picture of med induced insomnia, Its such a problem in my life, but not big enough to stop parnate.
ttyl
Posted by uncouth on December 11, 2008, at 20:42:49
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » uncouth, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 11, 2008, at 20:35:07
parnate is working "ok" but not great. im also bp2 but hypomania only induced by SNRIs. personally i think effexor is more effective for me but it leads to dopamine dysfunction and obsessions and compulsions. i think MAOIs give me more "free will". im still not sure im on a high enough dose, but i get hypertensive reactions when I go to 80. splitting the dose helps, but if i'm going to stay on parnate i want to push the dose.
i'm also on abilify 15mg which i find helps A LOT.
i'm now of the opinion nobody should give up on an SNRI without trying it with a healthy dose of abilify.
Posted by Tony P on December 16, 2008, at 1:24:14
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » uncouth, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 11, 2008, at 20:35:07
I found Zopiclone / Lunesta pooped out through tolerance quite quickly for me -- maybe cross-tolerance from benzos, even though they're not directly related.
Some of the usual non-GABA-active meds like remeron,trazadone and seroquel have produced nasty attacks of akathisia for me which prevented sleep. The akathisia I experience is very much like restless leg syndrome, only more whole-body "fidgets". I can get some relief (and sleep aid) from clonazepam, but it takes a fairly high dose for me now -- 2 mg or more. I also get relief from Requip/ropinirole, which is recommended for RLS, and as a bonus it also makes me drowsy.
When I started it 1 mg Requip made me drowsy (so my daytime limit was .75 mg), I still take .5-.75 during the day (for the dopamine mood boost) and .75-1.0 mg at night, but my pharmacist says I'm still at a relatively low dose if I need to increase it.
Remeron is still my main night med (30 mg). Although it doesn't make me as overpoweringly sleepy as when I first started it a couple of years ago, the combo of Remeron & Requip still works well for me most nights if I'm not too hyper. If I add others such as seroquel or trimipramine I tend to get hangover, hypersomnia, and quickly revert to out-of-step DSPS (like permanent jet-lag).
Trimpramine is great for natural-feeling sleep but it's very risky with MAOI's such as Parnate, and has such a long half-life that it takes 3 alarms and a triple latte to get me going, if I even make it out of bed.
A short course of melatonin (at least 9 mg at bedtime) will sometimes reset my sleep cycle but it only works for a few days.
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 16, 2008, at 13:34:05
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Tony P on December 16, 2008, at 1:24:14
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 20, 2008, at 7:08:00
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Tony P on December 16, 2008, at 1:24:14
"Hey, I guess you dont need to be on Parnate to know of a good sleep med. Im curious as to what people are using to cope with med induced insomnia.
I currently take 15mgs of Zopiclone and 150mgs of Seroquel. Zopiclons lost its effectiveness even if i take 4, and Seroquel isn't as good as it was and it makes me a retarted zombie the next day..
If you take a sleep med let me know, Thanks"Maybe you don'T need to be on the Parnate to know all the good drugs to put you asleep, but the Parnate worse the insomnia for sure!!! lol ;-) At least, in my case, BUT I think I will be able to do something with it, I mean, I begin to feel a little bit more well with the Parnate, maybe not on my energy level during the day, even at night with the insomnia, but with my social life and I don't feel the need to increase my Valium dayli intake on it, and that's a great improve cause normally AD boost my intake of Valium cause I feel more anxious... I will see with the time and with my next dose increase next week...I hope the insomnia will not get worst...that's kill me to sleep only 2-3 hours by night in a row...Anyway's...
I also found the Remeron to be the best drug to put you asleep...but at 15 mg...the less you take of it and the more well you will sleep, at 30mg, Mirtazipine(Remeron)begin to be more an active drug, with is NE and SE dual action. I think it's not recommended with the Parnate because of it's NE activity ...is that right? IF it's not the case, I have some leftover pills of Remeron 15mg here, I will take them to help me to sleep...lol
I found the Zopiclone to be not very effective, 7.5mg if Zopiclone is equal to 5mg of Valium...so 4 pills make en equivalent action to 20mg of Valium...that's not really powerfull... That's not wirking on me anyway probably because i'm addicte to benzos drugs and I already take a 20mg of Valium during the day and the Valium is the type of benzo who make you sleepy a lot at the begining but you get used of this (side-effect) fast. The Zopiclone leave a really bad taste in the nouth also the day after you take it, a metallic taste that I found to be really (disgusting)...sorry for the BAD word... ;-)
Seroquel-xr is seroquel...mean what it mean. You know my history on it...yeah you sleep but do you need something to make you sleepy all day long after? I don't think so...zombie feeling is not very interresting.
Melatonin...what I can say about this...I lost 5 $ when I buy a bottle of it...3mg caps...Take 9mg the first night and get nothing. take 12mg the night after, feel nothing, don't sleep more and don't help to fall asleep more fast or stay in the bed more time...I got migraine with it, I don'T know if it's related, but the 2 nights I try it I had migraine the day after...Not very effective, your body make natural melatonin at night anyway, that's not a drugs, that's an hormone...I think you will have more chance to sleep well with Unisom...or Unisom2 who have a different ingredient in it than the regular SleepAid or Gravol medecine, but good luck to find it(Unisom2).
Insomnia will be always a BIG problem, for depressive people or for the others illiness like social phobia or general anxiety...name them... we all want to sleep more well, but at the same time, we put a lot of pressure on us if we don't sleep well...I don'T know if you follow me?...Bad english again!!! lol I just wanted to say that if I sleep really bad one night, the day after I will feel without energy and I will get an migraine and I will get less motivated to do something cause I know I don't sleep a lot...it's like a big circle that never ending...I don't sleep a lot, I will have a bad day the day after cause I will lack the energy and the motivation do to something, I will stay in my "pajamas" all day long, return in my bed, try to sleep, I will get more tired because of this, I will get more anxious if I know I have something to do at night, like going out with a friend, and I will wonder if I will be able to find the energy to do it at night and I will try to sleep during the day but I will nt be able and I will probably go out at night, feeling tired as hell, not enjoy my night with my friend, and I will get home, tired, jump in my bed and the next thing I will know is that i'm awake after 2 hours! Very interresting!... That's the magic feeling of insomnia...
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 20, 2008, at 15:09:08
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom, posted by Vincent_QC on December 20, 2008, at 7:08:00
> "Hey, I guess you dont need to be on Parnate to know of a good sleep med. Im curious as to what people are using to cope with med induced insomnia.
> I currently take 15mgs of Zopiclone and 150mgs of Seroquel. Zopiclons lost its effectiveness even if i take 4, and Seroquel isn't as good as it was and it makes me a retarted zombie the next day..
> If you take a sleep med let me know, Thanks"
>
> Maybe you don'T need to be on the Parnate to know all the good drugs to put you asleep, but the Parnate worse the insomnia for sure!!! lol ;-) At least, in my case, BUT I think I will be able to do something with it, I mean, I begin to feel a little bit more well with the Parnate, maybe not on my energy level during the day, even at night with the insomnia, but with my social life and I don't feel the need to increase my Valium dayli intake on it, and that's a great improve cause normally AD boost my intake of Valium cause I feel more anxious... I will see with the time and with my next dose increase next week...I hope the insomnia will not get worst...that's kill me to sleep only 2-3 hours by night in a row...Anyway's...
>
> I also found the Remeron to be the best drug to put you asleep...but at 15 mg...the less you take of it and the more well you will sleep, at 30mg, Mirtazipine(Remeron)begin to be more an active drug, with is NE and SE dual action. I think it's not recommended with the Parnate because of it's NE activity ...is that right? IF it's not the case, I have some leftover pills of Remeron 15mg here, I will take them to help me to sleep...lol
>
> I found the Zopiclone to be not very effective, 7.5mg if Zopiclone is equal to 5mg of Valium...so 4 pills make en equivalent action to 20mg of Valium...that's not really powerfull... That's not wirking on me anyway probably because i'm addicte to benzos drugs and I already take a 20mg of Valium during the day and the Valium is the type of benzo who make you sleepy a lot at the begining but you get used of this (side-effect) fast. The Zopiclone leave a really bad taste in the nouth also the day after you take it, a metallic taste that I found to be really (disgusting)...sorry for the BAD word... ;-)
>
> Seroquel-xr is seroquel...mean what it mean. You know my history on it...yeah you sleep but do you need something to make you sleepy all day long after? I don't think so...zombie feeling is not very interresting.
>
> Melatonin...what I can say about this...I lost 5 $ when I buy a bottle of it...3mg caps...Take 9mg the first night and get nothing. take 12mg the night after, feel nothing, don't sleep more and don't help to fall asleep more fast or stay in the bed more time...I got migraine with it, I don'T know if it's related, but the 2 nights I try it I had migraine the day after...Not very effective, your body make natural melatonin at night anyway, that's not a drugs, that's an hormone...I think you will have more chance to sleep well with Unisom...or Unisom2 who have a different ingredient in it than the regular SleepAid or Gravol medecine, but good luck to find it(Unisom2).
>
> Insomnia will be always a BIG problem, for depressive people or for the others illiness like social phobia or general anxiety...name them... we all want to sleep more well, but at the same time, we put a lot of pressure on us if we don't sleep well...I don'T know if you follow me?...Bad english again!!! lol I just wanted to say that if I sleep really bad one night, the day after I will feel without energy and I will get an migraine and I will get less motivated to do something cause I know I don't sleep a lot...it's like a big circle that never ending...I don't sleep a lot, I will have a bad day the day after cause I will lack the energy and the motivation do to something, I will stay in my "pajamas" all day long, return in my bed, try to sleep, I will get more tired because of this, I will get more anxious if I know I have something to do at night, like going out with a friend, and I will wonder if I will be able to find the energy to do it at night and I will try to sleep during the day but I will nt be able and I will probably go out at night, feeling tired as hell, not enjoy my night with my friend, and I will get home, tired, jump in my bed and the next thing I will know is that i'm awake after 2 hours! Very interresting!... That's the magic feeling of insomnia...Yes, I do know what you mean. We worry alot about sleep because if we dont sleep were worried about being tired the next day and axious or worse.
Remeron shouldn't be used but maybe a small dose is ok.. depends on you.
Hopefully the insomnia gets better. Right now its really bad. I slept good last night on 50mg trazodone, 50mg seroquel. Im still a bit tired but Ill be fine in an hour or 2. I didnt take those pills until 2 am last night.I quit zopiclone and dont like it at all. It used to be good with Nardil at 1 pill but now I need like 6 pills and the taste is disgusting, I cant stand it the next day.
Does Unisom actually work for you for more then a couple days?
For me, any over the counter antihistamine looses effectiveness in 3 days about. gravol/unisom/nytol etc.
Its really good once in a while.
Im just hoping insomnia will get better as time goes by.
Right now im cycling back and forth between Trazodone, seroquel and Diphenhydramine hydrochloride(1-2x a week)
Good to hear your feeling a bit better.
Im doing good too at 70mg's a day.
Posted by uncouth on December 20, 2008, at 15:10:31
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » Vincent_QC, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 20, 2008, at 15:09:08
Is remeron actually even OK to take with Parnate? Does anyone know? Let's say at the low dose of 15mg for sleep.
Is it safe?
Is it safe?
IS IT SAFE?!
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 21, 2008, at 0:00:11
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » Vincent_QC, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 20, 2008, at 15:09:08
> Yes, I do know what you mean. We worry alot about sleep because if we dont sleep were worried about being tired the next day and axious or worse.
> Remeron shouldn't be used but maybe a small dose is ok.. depends on you.
> Hopefully the insomnia gets better. Right now its really bad. I slept good last night on 50mg trazodone, 50mg seroquel. Im still a bit tired but Ill be fine in an hour or 2. I didnt take those pills until 2 am last night.
>
> I quit zopiclone and dont like it at all. It used to be good with Nardil at 1 pill but now I need like 6 pills and the taste is disgusting, I cant stand it the next day.
>
> Does Unisom actually work for you for more then a couple days?
> For me, any over the counter antihistamine looses effectiveness in 3 days about. gravol/unisom/nytol etc.
> Its really good once in a while.
> Im just hoping insomnia will get better as time goes by.
> Right now im cycling back and forth between Trazodone, seroquel and Diphenhydramine hydrochloride(1-2x a week)
> Good to hear your feeling a bit better.
> Im doing good too at 70mg's a day.
>
Hummm ok...so you are now at 70mg/day of Parnate...is it worse for insomnia at this stage...or insomnia begin at a low dose like the one I take (20mg/day)...Well i'm really confuse about sleep pills...I mean, my psychiatrist or my family doctor don'T want to prescribe Trazodone, they always talk about serotonin syndrome possibilites...I'm sure a low dose is safe no? But I can't get it...
Do you find the "zombie" sensation the next day to be less strongh with trazodone or with seroquel? I was on 50mg of seroquel but the XR version and it was crazy as hell the next day...I was completly pass out and lost. Maybe I should ask just for regular seroquel?
For what I know and for the answers I get from my pharmacist, Remeron is not safe at all with Parnate, even at a low dose...but at the same time, he told me also that Unisom, Gravol or any pills make with diphenhydramine hydrochloride are dangerous with the Parnate ???
On other side, i'm sure the pharmacist don't know what he talk about, for the MAOI'S at least... he just take a website about drugs and read the interractions to me...He was not aware that the Parnate was still a prescribe drug in these day...I was the first one to had a prescription of Parnate in more than 14 years at this place.
I never find the diphenhydramine hydrochloride effective, in fact, it tend to make me more anxious and agited, so I don't use it often, I was using it the day after I had drink too much at the time lol
As a kid, I had STRONG allergy seasonal problems in the summer, and I took a lot of Chlorphenamine (Chlor-Tripolon), for that reason, I think the sedation effect have lost is action on me since a long time.
Aparently, Unisom 2, made with doxylamine succinate is a more potent drug to help people sleep...I have to command one box this week at my drugstore because they never have it in stock... I will try it...I have nothing to loose...
What I can say...I feel a little bit well but at the same time no...I find the Parnate to be more hard for the system than the Nardil. I'm a lot tired between the dose in the day, at night it's worse... My blood pressure is often high, and at the same time I have orthostatic hypotension...I will have to be more carefull with what I eat and what I drink...slow down the coffee a little bit.
IF you don't count these 3 side-effects, Parnate is a wonderfull drug, for now. and show some promising success on me. But I feel so tired sometimes, I hope it will be more stimulating at a more high dose and I hope the hypertension or the hypotension problems will not get worse...
Well that's all for now... When I will have my box of Unisom 2, I will inform you , just to let you know if it's working more well than regular sleep pills...
Have a nice day ;-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 21, 2008, at 6:09:57
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » Vincent_QC, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 20, 2008, at 15:09:08
Hummm...I had another very long night (3 1/2 h) of sleep. I had to pop-up some Zopiclone pills to be able to fall asleep. I hate them and the bitter taste in the mouth they leave the day after (well in my case it's the same day...lol) is really bad. If it's suppose to help to sleep, i'm wondering why i'm in front of my Laptop 3 hours later, full awake but with a very nice headache...Anyway, I had nothing else to use since I return the seroquel-xr bottle at the drugstore and i'm not sure if I can use the remeron.
I have another question for you ParnateStarted2008. Did you have some "libido" problems with the Parnate?. Sorry for the "straight to head" question...but I experience that kind of problems, and i'm wondering if it's normal or not? I remember that only Nardil give me that kind of problem and Paxil also...I will not enter all the details about my libido problem, but that's not very easy to handle...lol ;-)
Anyway, seem to be another great day, lying in the bed all the afternoon...trying to recuperate a little bit of sleep I dodn't have last night. Snowstorm tonight here so I will probably stay at home and take it easy...for a change...lol
Change of subject here...I think I will up my dose at 30 mg tomorrow...i'm not suppose but after 6 days at 20mg, I feel ready to do it, I hope everything will be fine...Should I take 20mg in one shoot in the morning and 10mg in the middle of the afeternoon, or I should take the 10mg pill before, like at the 12 PM?... I should ask how many times you leave between your doses ?
Well, thanks for you answer ;-)You're a really good source of informations as well a nice person ;-)
Posted by desolationrower on December 21, 2008, at 12:36:52
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Vincent_QC on December 21, 2008, at 0:00:11
> > Yes, I do know what you mean. We worry alot about sleep because if we dont sleep were worried about being tired the next day and axious or worse.
> > Remeron shouldn't be used but maybe a small dose is ok.. depends on you.
> > Hopefully the insomnia gets better. Right now its really bad. I slept good last night on 50mg trazodone, 50mg seroquel. Im still a bit tired but Ill be fine in an hour or 2. I didnt take those pills until 2 am last night.
> > I quit zopiclone and dont like it at all. It used to be good with Nardil at 1 pill but now I need like 6 pills and the taste is disgusting, I cant stand it the next day.
> >
> > Does Unisom actually work for you for more then a couple days?
> > For me, any over the counter antihistamine looses effectiveness in 3 days about. gravol/unisom/nytol etc.
> > Its really good once in a while.
> > Im just hoping insomnia will get better as time goes by.
> > Right now im cycling back and forth between Trazodone, seroquel and Diphenhydramine hydrochloride(1-2x a week)
> > Good to hear your feeling a bit better.
> > Im doing good too at 70mg's a day.
> >
> Hummm ok...so you are now at 70mg/day of Parnate...is it worse for insomnia at this stage...or insomnia begin at a low dose like the one I take (20mg/day)...
>
> Well i'm really confuse about sleep pills...I mean, my psychiatrist or my family doctor don'T want to prescribe Trazodone, they always talk about serotonin syndrome possibilites...I'm sure a low dose is safe no? But I can't get it...
>
> Do you find the "zombie" sensation the next day to be less strongh with trazodone or with seroquel? I was on 50mg of seroquel but the XR version and it was crazy as hell the next day...I was completly pass out and lost. Maybe I should ask just for regular seroquel?that sucks, i def. think regular seroquel would be better, stronger at night and wears off quicker.
> For what I know and for the answers I get from my pharmacist, Remeron is not safe at all with Parnate, even at a low dose...but at the same time, he told me also that Unisom, Gravol or any pills make with diphenhydramine hydrochloride are dangerous with the Parnate ???
Hey vincent. Remeron with MAOI is sort of like selegiline with and ssri...it can be dangerous if you happen to be one of those people who metabolizes the drug VERY slowly, maybe .5% of the population. But its the kind of problem you'll know RIGHT AWAY, when your heart tries to jackhammer its way out of your chest. Still, i would recommend cyproheptadine, maybe even 15-20mg. There is also doxepin which is technically a TCA but is one of the strongest antihistamines. cyproheptadine is OTC in canada, and you're in quebec right, so that would be a possibility if you haven't tried. There is only one 'antihistamine' that isn't safe, i forget the name, its some old, rare one.
> On other side, i'm sure the pharmacist don't know what he talk about, for the MAOI'S at least... he just take a website about drugs and read the interractions to me...He was not aware that the Parnate was still a prescribe drug in these day...I was the first one to had a prescription of Parnate in more than 14 years at this place.hahaha.
> I never find the diphenhydramine hydrochloride effective, in fact, it tend to make me more anxious and agited, so I don't use it often, I was using it the day after I had drink too much at the time lol
>
> As a kid, I had STRONG allergy seasonal problems in the summer, and I took a lot of Chlorphenamine (Chlor-Tripolon), for that reason, I think the sedation effect have lost is action on me since a long time.oh hey, thats the one you can't take with an maoi, it is an sri as well as a antihistamine. and also with a similar name, bropheanamine i think
> Aparently, Unisom 2, made with doxylamine succinate is a more potent drug to help people sleep...I have to command one box this week at my drugstore because they never have it in stock... I will try it...I have nothing to loose...
>
> What I can say...I feel a little bit well but at the same time no...I find the Parnate to be more hard for the system than the Nardil. I'm a lot tired between the dose in the day, at night it's worse... My blood pressure is often high, and at the same time I have orthostatic hypotension...I will have to be more carefull with what I eat and what I drink...slow down the coffee a little bit.
>
> IF you don't count these 3 side-effects, Parnate is a wonderfull drug, for now. and show some promising success on me. But I feel so tired sometimes, I hope it will be more stimulating at a more high dose and I hope the hypertension or the hypotension problems will not get worse...
>
> Well that's all for now... When I will have my box of Unisom 2, I will inform you , just to let you know if it's working more well than regular sleep pills...
>
> Have a nice day ;-)
>
>good luck
-d/r
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on December 21, 2008, at 14:43:41
In reply to Re: Whats your sleep med? If bad Med induced insom » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Vincent_QC on December 21, 2008, at 0:00:11
> > Yes, I do know what you mean. We worry alot about sleep because if we dont sleep were worried about being tired the next day and axious or worse.
> > Remeron shouldn't be used but maybe a small dose is ok.. depends on you.
> > Hopefully the insomnia gets better. Right now its really bad. I slept good last night on 50mg trazodone, 50mg seroquel. Im still a bit tired but Ill be fine in an hour or 2. I didnt take those pills until 2 am last night.
> >
> > I quit zopiclone and dont like it at all. It used to be good with Nardil at 1 pill but now I need like 6 pills and the taste is disgusting, I cant stand it the next day.
> >
> > Does Unisom actually work for you for more then a couple days?
> > For me, any over the counter antihistamine looses effectiveness in 3 days about. gravol/unisom/nytol etc.
> > Its really good once in a while.
> > Im just hoping insomnia will get better as time goes by.
> > Right now im cycling back and forth between Trazodone, seroquel and Diphenhydramine hydrochloride(1-2x a week)
> > Good to hear your feeling a bit better.
> > Im doing good too at 70mg's a day.
> >
> Hummm ok...so you are now at 70mg/day of Parnate...is it worse for insomnia at this stage...or insomnia begin at a low dose like the one I take (20mg/day)...
>
> Well i'm really confuse about sleep pills...I mean, my psychiatrist or my family doctor don'T want to prescribe Trazodone, they always talk about serotonin syndrome possibilites...I'm sure a low dose is safe no? But I can't get it...
>
> Do you find the "zombie" sensation the next day to be less strongh with trazodone or with seroquel? I was on 50mg of seroquel but the XR version and it was crazy as hell the next day...I was completly pass out and lost. Maybe I should ask just for regular seroquel?
>
> For what I know and for the answers I get from my pharmacist, Remeron is not safe at all with Parnate, even at a low dose...but at the same time, he told me also that Unisom, Gravol or any pills make with diphenhydramine hydrochloride are dangerous with the Parnate ???
>
> On other side, i'm sure the pharmacist don't know what he talk about, for the MAOI'S at least... he just take a website about drugs and read the interractions to me...He was not aware that the Parnate was still a prescribe drug in these day...I was the first one to had a prescription of Parnate in more than 14 years at this place.
>
> I never find the diphenhydramine hydrochloride effective, in fact, it tend to make me more anxious and agited, so I don't use it often, I was using it the day after I had drink too much at the time lol
>
> As a kid, I had STRONG allergy seasonal problems in the summer, and I took a lot of Chlorphenamine (Chlor-Tripolon), for that reason, I think the sedation effect have lost is action on me since a long time.
>
> Aparently, Unisom 2, made with doxylamine succinate is a more potent drug to help people sleep...I have to command one box this week at my drugstore because they never have it in stock... I will try it...I have nothing to loose...
>
> What I can say...I feel a little bit well but at the same time no...I find the Parnate to be more hard for the system than the Nardil. I'm a lot tired between the dose in the day, at night it's worse... My blood pressure is often high, and at the same time I have orthostatic hypotension...I will have to be more carefull with what I eat and what I drink...slow down the coffee a little bit.
>
> IF you don't count these 3 side-effects, Parnate is a wonderfull drug, for now. and show some promising success on me. But I feel so tired sometimes, I hope it will be more stimulating at a more high dose and I hope the hypertension or the hypotension problems will not get worse...
>
> Well that's all for now... When I will have my box of Unisom 2, I will inform you , just to let you know if it's working more well than regular sleep pills...
>
> Have a nice day ;-)
>Hi, Most of the time gravol/unisom/diphenhydramine are all safe with Parnate... Im sure most people can take remron or a sedating TCA at bedtime for a sleep aid while taking Parnate.. The risk of serotonin syndrome is small. Pharmacists/doctors dont want to be in trouble if they perscribe a medication that 'might' interact. There have been no tests to see if Parnate is safe with most other drugs.. for some people it may be risky, it all depends on your brain chemestry. I react to Parnate differently then you and another person on this site who I talk to..
I dont get tired between dosing at all, my blood pressure is always perfect and I can eat anything so far including very very old cheese.. dont tell anyone to try it because they might react alot differently then me. Nardil I did notice if I ate Tyramine, my heart would start beating very fast and hard and I went to the Emergency twice. On Parnate I dont get those symptoms. Trazodone is the most widely perscribed sleep aid for long term with MAOI's and it is quite safe. But there is a risk to everything. Every drug says dont combine it with a MAOI... so it is a decision and risk you'll have to take if your desperate enough to do so.
I dont find Trazodone as sedating as seroquel for the next day.. seroquel is worse.
I find My insomnia is much worse now at 70mg's a day because it is really starting to work for me..
you might have just as bad insomnia at 30mg's if that dose works as strong for you as 70 does for me.
I guess Ill buy some doxylamine aswell to use once in a while,,
Do the over the counter antihistamines loose their effectiveness with you very fast?
Even Doxilamine succinate I could couly take for 3-4 days and then I become immune and I have to quite for a week or two..
thanks for the info,
aurevoire ton ton
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