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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 83. Go back in thread:
Posted by desolationrower on November 30, 2008, at 1:39:06
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 29, 2008, at 8:27:34
I don't think an MAOi switch should take more than a day or two, but some pdocs really fear MAOIs and are cautious. They have very short half lives, couple hours. Why would you let MAO regenerate, just to inhibit it again? The only thing i could think of would be the other amine oxidase enzymes that these drugs may inhibit might do something? I switched from deprenyl to parnate, just stopped taking the deprenyl one morning and took parnate instead.
-d/r
Posted by Vincent_QC on November 30, 2008, at 4:18:42
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r, posted by desolationrower on November 30, 2008, at 1:39:06
> I don't think an MAOi switch should take more than a day or two, but some pdocs really fear MAOIs and are cautious. They have very short half lives, couple hours. Why would you let MAO regenerate, just to inhibit it again? The only thing i could think of would be the other amine oxidase enzymes that these drugs may inhibit might do something? I switched from deprenyl to parnate, just stopped taking the deprenyl one morning and took parnate instead.
>
> -d/r
That's what I think also. No danger cause they can only destroy type A or B enzymes...since Parnate have a really short half-life (5 hours max), it seem to destroy more the type B enzymes, and Nardil have a 12 hours half-life and destroy the same amount of the Type A and B enzymes + act on the gaba receptors, that's the only difference...but the effect of Nardil on the destruction of the enzymes seem to last a couple of weeks but not for the Parnate...so what is the difference, switching from one to another, it can't be fatal! You don't need a washout period. I switch from Parnate to Nardil after 1 day without any problem at all...If the Nardil fail to show some positive relief effects of my social phobia and anxiety after 3 months , I will switch to Manerix (Moclobemide) without a whasout period also...I know it's not as powerfull than Nardil or Parnate, but it's the only one I never try...
My pdoc told me to wait a couple of days before switching from Parnate to Nardil...but I don't listen to him. He seem to fear the MAOI a little bit...but at the same time he said that he is open minded on that question...??? I think he is not so open minded...since he don't want to prescribe at the same time a little dose of Trazodone for my insomnia...but for god seek, I need it!!! lol I don't sleep more than 2 hours in a row since 1 week or so...and I begin to feel really tired...
Posted by JadeKelly on November 30, 2008, at 19:33:10
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r, posted by desolationrower on November 30, 2008, at 1:39:06
> I don't think an MAOi switch should take more than a day or two, but some pdocs really fear MAOIs and are cautious. They have very short half lives, couple hours. Why would you let MAO regenerate, just to inhibit it again? The only thing i could think of would be the other amine oxidase enzymes that these drugs may inhibit might do something? I switched from deprenyl to parnate, just stopped taking the deprenyl one morning and took parnate instead.
>
> -d/rHi d/r,
Yeah, when I switched from Emsam to Parnate, PDoc made me wait 2-4 weeks? can't remember. But I've been seeing a lot of people on board do it all the time (switch from one to another). So "that guy" will be happy, he has a back-up plan, and nobody wants to come off an MAOI to wait 4 weeks to start next. Just so we're clear tho, switching to an A/D other than another MAOI could be dangerous with out waiting, correct?
Thanks! Jade
Posted by desolationrower on November 30, 2008, at 19:52:56
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » desolationrower, posted by JadeKelly on November 30, 2008, at 19:33:10
> Hi d/r,
>
> Yeah, when I switched from Emsam to Parnate, PDoc made me wait 2-4 weeks? can't remember. But I've been seeing a lot of people on board do it all the time (switch from one to another). So "that guy" will be happy, he has a back-up plan, and nobody wants to come off an MAOI to wait 4 weeks to start next. Just so we're clear tho, switching to an A/D other than another MAOI could be dangerous with out waiting, correct?
>
> Thanks! Jade
>
yup, no antidepressant (and not even getting to at least try one) for a few weeks sucks. Generally, you do need to wait, although basically the same rules for what you can combine with MAOIs apply. NRIs are less of a problem, but an sri you really do need to wait 2 weeks (4 weeks seems excessive, except maybe a pensioner with really slow body or something.) now i've seen some say 'wait two weeks to start an MAOI,' and that just depends on the halflife of what you were on before, but for most sris maybe 5-7 days is enough.-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 30, 2008, at 22:23:47
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on November 28, 2008, at 19:11:23
Hey Shawn!
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, had my brother and niece here from North Carolina, just left today. And yes, I'm in the US. I think you mentioned New Foundland, I geuss I forgot. Anyway, thats so cool you got some work done, that always makes me feel better, sounds like you really went to town tho! So you had an adrenaline rush, too. I'm jealous. My sons have a dirt bike, maybe I'll take that out and go for a ride tomorrow. aha. Somehow I don't think it would be the same!
Anyway, down to business. A couple of good sources tell me that should Nardil not work out for you, you should be able to switch right over to another MAOI (Parnate?) See other poster here, d/r, he knows lots, just ask him. Ah, about the best augmentation, again d/r would probably know, he's on Parnate I believe but knows alot about meds. Just send him a quick post on this thread, tell him you're looking to augment Nardil, what all you take, your history, and that you want ritalin, but if not what would be best AND fairly fast acting. Neurontin and Lyrica, from almost everything I've read, are great for a short time and you develop quick tolerance. I would geuss not good choices with your history. In my opinion, Provigil stinks. I tried it once and it made my mind race, not in a good way, but it gave me zero energy. If you end up going for a stim Ritalin is 100 times better, again in my opinion. So out of the four you chose before, Neurontin, Lyrica, Provigil and Ritalin, I would say Ritalin. I believe Adderall is considered to be dangerous with MAOI's and I wouldn't even consider it.
So you want to work in the mines? With your brains, couldn't you pick something a little safer? I know you live for danger, but jeez!
OK, well get back to me about your Doc situation. And remember, I know you've put a lot into Nardil but if in the end it just isn't cuttin it, I believe you can go right over to Parnate. Its more stimulating, too. It wouldn't be starting over either, a lot of the "work" will have been done by Nardil, is my understanding. I think you'd need to see the "generous" Doc for that.
Hope to hear from you soon,
~Jade
PS-Read d/r's posts above me.
Posted by that_guy23 on December 1, 2008, at 1:05:27
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 30, 2008, at 22:23:47
hey jade!
Why appollogize, remenber, enough apollogies. So you had family from north corolina, hope you enjoyed yourself. I'm not that familiar with the states locations, but I can probably name like over 10.lol. So which state are you from. your right I am from Newfoundland, just the one word, but I guess, that's how people would say it. Lot's of very beautiful scenery, but not alot of work but they say that will change in the next 5-10 years, unuless you have a trade or degree. Even with a trade, many of us get flew out west, to ontario, or alberta to work in mines or on construction of mines, because we are known for are hard work. My brother and father are into the mining, and it intrigues me for one reason, $$$$$. Don't get me wrong, thats not everting, I was planning on just doing it for a year or 2, just to get back on my feet real good, after my sh*tty past. Then get into music, performing and recording. But thats just my small dreams, I will do that evenif it isn't professionally. You could make as much in the mines as lawyer would back here. My father dosen't want me to get into it because it's a hard life, and once you get used to the money you won't want to go back, he be's away for 3 weeks and back for 3 weeks, thats considered alot of time home.
Oh yeah that day, on bike made me feel like a million $, unfortunately, Adrenaliene doesn't last forever, but thats ok, I'm stickin it out and have it planned pretty good, i'll get back into that.
I did read the thread that d/r posted for you, it made allot of sence, I guess, as in I didn't understand all of what he was saying, but I knew what he meant. I am gonna stay on nardil for now since I hear nardil is better for SA and parnate depression, but if it doesn't work out I am definately giving the switch right over a try.
So how have you been going on the parnate, your at 40 right? And you still haven't told me if you got an augmentation. I hope it works for you. Does parnate work faster, I believe I heard that somewhere. But maois I also heard take longer than most other A/D's.
So yeah, here's my pdoc plan. I am gonna call both available pdocs. tommorrow, well their secretaries, and find out how soon, once they get a referral, could I get an appointment. I think I can get in quicker with the "Drug Pusher".lol. So anyway I have a doc. appt. this wednesday, and I'm gonna try to get a refferall sent to both available pdocs. And current pdoc. shoudn't have to know anything untill I get an ok and appt. set. If I can't send referalls to both pdocs., I'll go with drug guy, because I'm more likely to get what I want. In the mean time I still have 2 appts. with current pdoc. One on the 11 of this month, and the other isn't until jan 19. So if she doesn't give the ok for up dose, dosn't matter, already checked pill situation, and with the up to 90 that day, I will have enough nardil to last til the 7th of jan. I am gonna tell her how I am sticking with nardil regardless, and I feel I need augmentation,since I won't see her for over a month. If she says yes, everything else can be cancelled, if no, bye bye pdoc. and wait for appt., hopefully before christmas but unliekly, from other pdoc. or pdocs. And I shoud get my augmentation with some patience. SO I think that for now the drug guy would be best choice, and I really hope my plan works,all i'm doing is what I think is best, so why not? What do you think? Oh and I already did my research on stims, and thats why I am saying ritalin other than adderall, or any other amphetamines.
Lastly, you think I should make a shout out to d/r on this thread? Also include past meds and effects right?
hit me back when your available, BUT MAKE IT FAST!.........JK.lol.
shawn.
Posted by that_guy23 on December 1, 2008, at 1:54:20
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by that_guy23 on November 17, 2008, at 14:46:20
Hey d/r,
I gueuss you don't know me but I saw some post's that you've written and you really seem to know your stuff, I was actually recommended to ask youfor some advice by Jade. I think you may have told me before that augmentation would have something to do with previous medication, and maybe but i'm not sure, about what diagnosis may be the one targeting. Well here is a list of previous meds I've used and how I found them:
1)effexor xr(madde me much worse)
2)paxil(generic)(helped with anxiety alittle, but couldn't handle sexual SE's)
3)prozac(generic)Made me very agitated, almost paranoid. and shakey. very horrible!)
4)zoloft(generic) (just made anxiety worse)
5)wellbutrin(augmented with other ssri's for sexuall SE's, very helpful for sexuall SE's,was almost like it was reversed)
6)nortriptyline(didn't find any differnce, cant remember any bad SE's)
7)seroquel(very horrible, don't want to try antispsychotics anymore!Paranoid. used it with the nortriptyline)
8)remeron(Actually helped alot withdepression, especially motivation. didn't hlp with SA. dropped this drug feeling that I was just getting better on my own, depression factor, But it also wasn't enough.
9)clonazepam(klonopin)(Amazing at a high enough dose)
10)Aprasolam(xanax)(been a while but remember being similar to clonazepam, but I would say clonazepam is best)
11)diazepam(valium)(sucked, Didn't get anything at 45 mg's. Even abusing over 100mg's while drinking( this was at harsh times) didn't get that bad, remember everything, BAD HANGOVER!)
12)lorazepam(ativan) Also found good at high enough doses, 10 and up)Here is a list of nardil aumentations I got through others, and then research. I will put in order by my choice. Keep in mind I don't know allot of other meds, so any suggestions would be great. I feel that the first one is what I found would be best, because it helps with sexuall side effects, and hypotension. coudn't get any before , but I think I am changing my pdoc. so here they are:
1)methylphenidate(ritalin)
2)modafinil(provigil)
3)Pregabalin(lyrica)
4)gabapentin(neurontin)I was also wondering about mood stabilizers. Are they effective whit nardil?
here are a couple I picked up on this board a couple days ago for sexuall SE's:
1)bethanechol
2)cyproheptadineany advice would be appretiated.
Hope to here from you soon.
That guy
Posted by desolationrower on December 1, 2008, at 14:25:29
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION? SHOUT OUT TOd/r, posted by that_guy23 on December 1, 2008, at 1:54:20
hey, yeah i can mention some things you can think about and suggest to your pdoc. i read part of this thread and i think some others you posted on, but could you say specifically what diagnosis you have, symptoms you still have and what side effects you still have, and of all those whats most important? not sure what you were wanting from the augmentation. did you have plasma level tested of nort - you said you didn't feel much from it right? were you teh one saying you've had addictoin problems in the past? what area of sexual disfunction - desire, erection(guy=male?), orgasm?
-d/r
Posted by that_guy23 on December 1, 2008, at 18:48:17
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION?, posted by desolationrower on December 1, 2008, at 14:25:29
Hey man, that would be great. I'm sending referall to new pdoc. and secretary says I can get set up for an appt. as soon as she gets the referall. I have a doctors appt. on the wednesday, she said if I get the referall out that day I may get in as early as december 8th. This guy is apparently more for medications, which right now I feel that I need! and I'm pretty sure my current pdoc. doesn't know enough about maoi's. Won't even up my nardil now to 90 from 75, been there for almost 7 weeks in all, after before upping it to 105 from 75.
Anyway my diagnosis is Social Annxiety disorder, general anxiety disorder, and depression. My social anxiety is what is most severe in my case. I don't do much, and lost contact with all my friends, basically getting more close to family, but really being stuck with no job, very little motivation, and with a lost lisence, I find it harder, depending on everyone. I lost it through a dui, and also wrecked too vehicles that were mine, one was very hard to see go, it was a 98 honda prelude, very fast car. All these things have gave me low self esteem and self confidence, as well as becoming an alcoholic but stopped myself before it was to late and alcoholism kicked in. Lately I try to occupy my time fixing a snowmobile engine, which I'm very interested in, but only have basic skills, and know how.
I have had addiction problems, mainly alcohol, but also which I have been free of for 13 weeks, would have been 18 weeks if I didn't relapse the first 5 weeks in.
My depressin I think routes from, not being able to get out aroud much because of how severe my sa is. I am on nardil because of the success stories i've heard, and it actually being #1 med. for SA.
What I want from the augmentation is anxiety relief, especially socially, I feel that nardil can still do me good, and I plan on sticking with it for 4-6 months, but I feel that from what i've read, an augmentation can speed up the nardil, or at least give you releif from the combo. I did not have plazma levels tested.
My side effects has mostly all disipated, except for the sexual se's wich would be the inability to orgasm for like 3 months. And yes I am a male. not being able to orgasm I think makes me lose desire quicly, but desire is there. but no trouble with erection. I also have the ocassional orthoostatic hypotension. Only when I sleep through the day, and get up and it dosn't last long, but I do have low blood pressure, it ranges from as low as 80/50-110/60-65. This is why I chose ritalin as my first choice, and I also done some research saying it can be very useful with nardil.
I guess that's pretty much it, sorry about the rant, but I wanted to try to cover everything.
If you need anymore info just let me know.
thanks for the help.
hope to hear from you soon
Posted by that_guy23 on December 2, 2008, at 19:42:22
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION? » desolationrower, posted by that_guy23 on December 1, 2008, at 18:48:17
symptoms:
social anxiety:
1) worry excessively what people think of me
2)try not too seem anxious but seems to make it worse
3)blush sumtimes when somone puts me in center of attention, or when I'm in the middle of a sentence
4)racing heart entering social interactions
5)feel as someone will point out i'm nervous
6)become very quite and nervous when around people I don't know
7)fear the worst is that people would know I feel this way
8)Total frustration knowing that I shoudn't feel this way, but with allot of battling myself turned to failure.depression:
1)obviously after a social situiation I feel very down and hate myself for it
2)low self esteem and confidence(could be the SA)
3)wnating to sleep more
4)able to just sleep longer
5)feelings of guilt from my past and just any little thing.
6)not caring about the things I used to(on days don't even feel like playing guitar!!that is a bad day for me!!)
7)suicidal thoughts brought on by inner pain that I try to fight on my own, but meds are my answer!
8)feeling blank and just nothing feels right.genaralized anxiety:
1) I would guess that it's just the worrying when I'm not in social sitiation, about my future, my failing, how i gotta change it. how I gotta get better.
I have used alcohol to self medicate, so thats why I think that the SA/depression needs to be dealt with first, not vice versa.
thanks for any help.
hope to hear from you soon.
that guy.
Posted by desolationrower on December 3, 2008, at 23:54:49
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION?))d/r, posted by that_guy23 on December 2, 2008, at 19:42:22
You say that kpins worked really well in the past for you, increasing that might be an option? gabaergics are probably the best thing for anticipatory anxiety.
Since you have low blood pressure, and have been prone to addictive behavior, an NRI might be a good choice to augment. It might help more with the depression than a stimulant would, and reduces risk of tyramine problem. And not addictive/scheduled. It sounded like you tolerated nortryptiline well, but didn't get a sufficient dose; i also like nortriptyline as a drug since it is rather potent 5ht2 blocker. There is less case report of moai & bupropion, but i'd be interested in how that would work. i agree methylphenidate is probably easier than amp, but i think its a toss up if it would be better than just a pure nri - it might make stuff more natural, or it could make you feel more like people are focused on you. I don't think a mood stabilizer would be a good idea yet, you don't have any history of mania, no?Bechtenol is a cholinergic, i think it would be more helpful if it were a anticholinergic tca that were causing your sexual problems; its more likely the serotonergic nature. My sexual function gradually returned on parnate, but i'd think cyproheptadine is worth trying first, as its quite safe and cheap. And if it doesn't work, you can still use it as a sleep aid. The other main thing would be alpha1 agonism, unfortunatly most tcas are alpha1 antagonists even though they increse availible norepinepherin. And you can't use something like ephedrine. So this is part of why an nri or stimulant might help. Of course its hard to predict in teh context of an MAOI.
I think you have number of conventional options yet, just a matter of trying them. You only need medication that works well enough for the therapy and practice to start to make things easier, not harder. And i'd probably stick with the better known treatments, as there is less risk that way and doctors are more familiar with them. Reboxetine is nice if you can get it, desipramine is the cleanest of tcas, but nortrip has advantages especially if the maoi gives you some insomnia. there is attomoxetine too, but it doesn't seem so good. For methylphenidate, make sure to get a long-acting version. IF your doc is not willing for either option, modafinal could help, although it seems to be weaker for most people, i think it would help more in terms of energy than anxiety.
-d/r
Posted by that_guy23 on December 4, 2008, at 0:09:37
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION d/r » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 30, 2008, at 22:23:47
hey jade,
I read the post saying you doing well on the parnate. I am very happy for you. I geuss it helps when you have someone experienced that is right in your area and you can follow his advice.I haven't heard from you lately, but thats cool, I'm just happy to here of the parnate working, it;s actually making me want to start it.
No not yet, theres just something about the nardil, I can't give it up! But parnate would definately be the next on my list.Today I upped my nardil to 90, which I did on my own. I was sick of waiting, and I might up clonazepam to 1 mg 4x a day, see how that works out. Because as of now I'm not sure of my pdoc. situation. Today I seen my gp, got my blood pressure checked, and it was low, also have a loen of a brand new electronic one, it showed the same as the doctors, from 75-80/45-55. I also got him to send off a referall through fax, to the new pdoc., I called to confirm and she said they may have recieved it at the main office, and would notify me when she gets it. She said it could be january before I see him, but the other day she said if she recieved soon enough I would probaly get in before christmas. I don't know if she thought I was a different person, or maye they got booked up. Once she receives my file she'll relize maybe(HOPEFULLY) that I'm not a new customer to psychiatry, and fit me in. I guess either way I'll see my current pdoc, just tell her I want augmentation, or thats as far as we go.
So I shall see now, at least going for another month with the nardil, baybe just with clonazepam. Then if I get augmentation I'll try that for so long, now I'm hoping for success, because isn't nardil better for genaralized social anxiety disorder? That is my most sever diagnosis, possibly a cause to allot of my depression, but I can't be sure. It sure seems like allot of people are swithcing to parnate though. Not me I'm sticken with what I said 4 months at least! I'm even think ing more now, if I can't get augmentation till after christmas.
If I can't get it then, I think the switch right to parnate would be it. That is possible right? just start taking parnate instead of nardil? Still wish me luck with the nardil, I mean especially seeing ace or "the Nardil King" and how well it's working for him, plus that other guy clipper40, he said just a touch of stims. But I would never go with amphetamines! Only methylphenidate.Oh also today started of alright, and then I just kind of started to lose my cool because of the phone call about the new pdoc. I started thinking about drinking, so my cousin took me for a ride, and guess who I meant up with. My best friend/brother who has been back from ontario and was gonna surprise me I think. I must have mentiond him, Nate, my future drummer, anyway I gave him agreat big hug and a kiss, and we were both stoked to see each other. We had such a laugh, another buddy of mine was there to, I wasn't so close to him but he's a pretty good friend. Nate asked me to go out to supper with his family, which was pretty cool, because it was his 19th b-day, that's the legal drinking age here. He always used my I.D and got away with it cause aparently we look so much alike. but I mean that's how close we are, I got my cousin to chase him down, and the happieness that was there was amazing.
So I told nate and ryan, the other guy, they can drop down the garage and have a beer or somthing, and I 'd just play some guitar. But nate told me to head to his hometown, 15 mins away, for supper.
So we'll see what tommorrow brings
Posted by that_guy23 on December 4, 2008, at 1:39:32
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION?))d/r, posted by desolationrower on December 3, 2008, at 23:54:49
Hey d/r,
Yeah I was think increasing the benso a bit would help as well. Bbt my current pdoc. won't change anything, unless I drop MAOI's, which I do not plan on, I think that she just doesn't know enough about them! Will have to research all these, but thats alright, print out's give me more options. You say for gabaergics are best for anticipatory anxiety, I guess tou mean generalized anxiety?
I guess that does make sense, and quite a possibility, but i'm more concerned for anxiety, which I think comes first and would probably releive depression allot afterwards. I know I am gonna be careful with stims, but I get my blood pressure checked, which is quite low, and stims. also helps this. Although I will check your suggestion because of the addiction.
I can't remember nortriptyline, but as you said maybe i didn't give it the right amount time or dose, but also I am looking for something fast acting right now, such as provigil or ritalin. Do you think concerta would be better than ritalin, or ritalin with longer acting tabs? I've heard of easier come downs, but also that it is gonna be discontinued.
I agree I would never go with an amphetamine with maoi's!And bupropion I just found good for sex se's and think I'll check out the one you
mentioned.Did you mean a pure nri could make you feel people are focused on you, or the methylphenidate?
No I don't have a history of mania, so does that mean a mood stabilizer wouldn't be helpful to me, or just leave as a later resort?
My sexuall function is the only se right now that I can't tolerate. So I think I will check out the cyproheptadine, especially since it's cheap and safe.
The other main thing would be alpha1 agonism, unfortunatly most tcas are alpha1 antagonists even though they increse availible norepinepherin. And you can't use something like ephedrine. So this is part of why an nri or stimulant might help. Of course its hard to predict in teh context of an MAOI.
yes, I will be researching that stuf as well, this is great, I love having options.
Roboxetine, heard of that, din't here of desipramine. Attomoxetine, I will still have to check it out for more options, this would show my new doc. that I have done the proper reserch and that I know, pretty much what I want
Well as I noted in the last post, that my second choice after methylphenidate, would be modafinil. I am planning on doing reserach on all these you have mentioned.
Thanks allot d/r, I really appretiate the helpOh one more thing. If the nardil didn't work out, is it true that I can start another maoi right aawy?
anyway thanks again.
hope to here back. I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted by desolationrower on December 4, 2008, at 13:22:04
In reply to Re:BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION?)))d/r, posted by that_guy23 on December 4, 2008, at 1:39:32
>You say for gabaergics are best for anticipatory anxiety, I guess tou mean generalized anxiety?
well, i mean the anxiety that occurs ahead of time, not during social interaction. Here is a description:
->>>Clinically, an early differentiation between brain systems that contribute to panic
attacks and those that generate anticipatory anxiety was based on the observation that
first-generation BZ antianxiety agents (e.g., chlordiazepoxide and diazepam) were not
as effective for controlling either panic attacks or separation anxiety as tricyclic antidepressants
(e.g., imipramine and chlorimipramine). Although such tricyclics turned out
to be excellent antipanic agents, they had comparatively modest effects on anticipatory
anxiety (Klein and Rabkin, 1981). This pharmacological distinction no longer holds for
the newer and more potent BZs. For instance, alprazolam and oxazepam are effective
antipanic agents (Schweizer et al., 1993), but BZs are also effective inhibitors of separation
distress in some species (Panksepp, 2003). It is not yet certain whether these
effects are due to direct BZ receptor influences, or perhaps alternative paths such as
the facilitation of serotonin transmission or reduced beta adrenoreceptor activity. Of
course, the ability of some new antianxiety agents to reduce panic may also indicate
that the fear and separation distress systems also share certain inhibitory influences.
The massive interactions of highly overlapping emotional systems, (Panksepp, 1982)
highlight difficulties we must confront in brain research as well as clinical practice.
Since quite a bit is known about the brain localizations of the separation distress/PANIC
and FEAR systems, such issues could be empirically disentangled.> I guess that does make sense, and quite a possibility, but i'm more concerned for anxiety, which I think comes first and would probably releive depression allot afterwards. I know I am gonna be careful with stims, but I get my blood pressure checked, which is quite low, and stims. also helps this. Although I will check your suggestion because of the addiction.
>
> I can't remember nortriptyline, but as you said maybe i didn't give it the right amount time or dose, but also I am looking for something fast acting right now, such as provigil or ritalin. Do you think concerta would be better than ritalin, or ritalin with longer acting tabs? I've heard of easier come downs, but also that it is gonna be discontinued.Well, the nri would help with blood pressure, but in a more consistant way, which might be beneficial. And might be a bit less likely to get tolerance. I guess i think some of anxiety is ibhibition and lack of energy around people. At least it is for me, and it sounds like we have some of the same symptoms. I didn't notice adrafinil (very similar to modafinil) until i had been on it a week. A week or two doesn't seem like too long to wait, and getting scheduled drugs refilled can get expensive long-term because you have to see the doc every month.
I'm not totally sure how well the longer-lasting methylphenidate preperations work, or what is generic. There are a few newer options that are not generic that might be best, the daytrana patch, and concerta has the longest release of the pills. The other thing is usually at least for me, I have time to try to socialize after work, in the evening, so having stimulant work in evening is important. I'm not sure if racemic methylphenidate is different as far as blood pressure the way that racemic AMP has more effect on blood pressure.
> I agree I would never go with an amphetamine with maoi's!And bupropion I just found good for sex se's and think I'll check out the one you
> mentioned.Well, my impression is that AMP is much better at increasing extroversion than methylphenidate is, so if the mpd doesn't work, consider amp.
> Did you mean a pure nri could make you feel people are focused on you, or the methylphenidate?
dopaminergics can cause paranoia. i don't think this is common in uncomplicated social phobics, but something to keep in mind.
> No I don't have a history of mania, so does that mean a mood stabilizer wouldn't be helpful to me, or just leave as a later resort?
theres not much evidence for most of them wrt unipolar. so i would leave them until you've tried otehr options, like nris, t3, stimulants
> My sexuall function is the only se right now that I can't tolerate. So I think I will check out the cyproheptadine, especially since it's cheap and safe.
I think its good to have around if you're on an MAOI in case of serotonin syndrome. if you haven't look up the sypmtoms and memorize them so you know if you are having it. its probably less likely than a hypertensive crisis, but still dangerous.
> yes, I will be researching that stuf as well, this is great, I love having options.
>
> Roboxetine, heard of that, din't here of desipramine. Attomoxetine, I will still have to check it out for more options, this would show my new doc. that I have done the proper reserch and that I know, pretty much what I wantdesipramine is the cleanest of the tcas. its a very nice antidepressant. There is some slight concern it could be related to breast cancer risk, but the risk is small, and theoretical. Still, it woudl make me consider desipramine a second choice after nort or reboxetine despite its good side effect profile and being cheap.
> Oh one more thing. If the nardil didn't work out, is it true that I can start another maoi right aawy?there was a report of someone having a stroke after directly switching, i think that is why many pdocs want people to wait a week or two. Keep in mind there is always risk of hypertensive crisis unprovoked by tyramine (i had my only one like this) so the new MAOI if dose is too high can cause this; i think this is more of a risk at the begining of treatment before the body adjusts to the drug. But i think as long as you start at low titration it is not a risk, and have a hypertensive antidote, i like clonidine personally; i haven't found any good evidence for which one is best, i think nifedipine is common, but with that one rebound hypotension is a problem, and is actually more dangerous. So i would personally say go right to 10mg of TCP for a few days, but you doc might want a washout. I did selegiline->TCP directly.
good luck. we have some very similar issues so its always nice to hear what works.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on December 4, 2008, at 19:47:13
In reply to Re: no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION ))JadeKelly, posted by that_guy23 on December 4, 2008, at 0:09:37
Hi Shawn from Newfoundland!
No I haven't deserted you, hah. Timing has been perfect here cause as you can see, d/r can offer you the technical med stuff that I can't. I think he's taken an interest (cool) cause you two have some things in common. Usually he just ignores me...ah, jk. Anyway, haven't been feeling to great as of late, not sure if its flu (from wonderful son) or result of 6/7 day NE high after new dose, 40mg now. Nardil2007 warned me about it so all is as it should be!!! Now its waiting time. I now know how you felt having no one to talk to, to guide the way! I probably would have quit this had I not been ready for all the curves in the road!! But I'm stickin with it and so are you, right? I've been following your med talks with d/r he'll steer you in the right direction. There's so much to learn about meds, I'm afraid I'm still quite ignorant about the whole thing. But thats ok, I do feel sure that we're on the right type of meds (MAOI's) and like you, I'm giving it every chance. I keep reading that Nardil takes a little longer to respond, but it also is the one for social anxiety. So stick it out if you can before Parnate trial. I also read your post about your friend/brother Nate showin up thats so great. Just make sure you stay away from the bad stuff!!! Anyway, I'm gonna catch up with you soon about all of it, when I can make good sense! Btw-good for you for getting on that doc thing. Who did you go with for appt? Pusher? haha. Take Care, I'll probably send you a decent post tomorrow. Again, really glad you hooked up with d/r.
Your friend,
~Jade
Posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 2:16:36
In reply to Re: no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!! » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on December 4, 2008, at 19:47:13
> Hi Shawn from Newfoundland!
>
> No I haven't deserted you, hah. Timing has been perfect here cause as you can see, d/r can offer you the technical med stuff that I can't. I think he's taken an interest (cool) cause you two have some things in common. Usually he just ignores me...ah, jk. Anyway, haven't been feeling to great as of late, not sure if its flu (from wonderful son) or result of 6/7 day NE high after new dose, 40mg now. Nardil2007 warned me about it so all is as it should be!!! Now its waiting time. I now know how you felt having no one to talk to, to guide the way! I probably would have quit this had I not been ready for all the curves in the road!! But I'm stickin with it and so are you, right? I've been following your med talks with d/r he'll steer you in the right direction. There's so much to learn about meds, I'm afraid I'm still quite ignorant about the whole thing. But thats ok, I do feel sure that we're on the right type of meds (MAOI's) and like you, I'm giving it every chance. I keep reading that Nardil takes a little longer to respond, but it also is the one for social anxiety. So stick it out if you can before Parnate trial. I also read your post about your friend/brother Nate showin up thats so great. Just make sure you stay away from the bad stuff!!! Anyway, I'm gonna catch up with you soon about all of it, when I can make good sense! Btw-good for you for getting on that doc thing. Who did you go with for appt? Pusher? haha. Take Care, I'll probably send you a decent post tomorrow. Again, really glad you hooked up with d/r.
>
> Your friend,
>
> ~Jadewell, i don't know how to talk to nice people. its too confusing.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on December 5, 2008, at 15:08:48
In reply to Re: no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!!, posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 2:16:36
> > Hi Shawn from Newfoundland!
> >
> > No I haven't deserted you, hah. Timing has been perfect here cause as you can see, d/r can offer you the technical med stuff that I can't. I think he's taken an interest (cool) cause you two have some things in common. Usually he just ignores me...ah, jk. Anyway, haven't been feeling to great as of late, not sure if its flu (from wonderful son) or result of 6/7 day NE high after new dose, 40mg now. Nardil2007 warned me about it so all is as it should be!!! Now its waiting time. I now know how you felt having no one to talk to, to guide the way! I probably would have quit this had I not been ready for all the curves in the road!! But I'm stickin with it and so are you, right? I've been following your med talks with d/r he'll steer you in the right direction. There's so much to learn about meds, I'm afraid I'm still quite ignorant about the whole thing. But thats ok, I do feel sure that we're on the right type of meds (MAOI's) and like you, I'm giving it every chance. I keep reading that Nardil takes a little longer to respond, but it also is the one for social anxiety. So stick it out if you can before Parnate trial. I also read your post about your friend/brother Nate showin up thats so great. Just make sure you stay away from the bad stuff!!! Anyway, I'm gonna catch up with you soon about all of it, when I can make good sense! Btw-good for you for getting on that doc thing. Who did you go with for appt? Pusher? haha. Take Care, I'll probably send you a decent post tomorrow. Again, really glad you hooked up with d/r.
> >
> > Your friend,
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> well, i don't know how to talk to nice people. its too confusing.
>
> -d/rAh d/r, you are so funny. Well, we make a good team then cause all the niceness in the world isn't gonna help Shawn/that_guy with choosing the best list of augments. Thanks for steppin in!
~Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on December 6, 2008, at 11:58:45
In reply to Re: no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!! » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on December 4, 2008, at 19:47:13
Hey jade from ?,
I know you didn't desert me, I just felt like messaging you, I do enjoy our coversation. If you did tell me where your form, sorry, but I seem to have a bad memory.lol.
You are right about d/r, hw is a big help. hes pretty damn smart! Somone I feel I can really trust for advice. He seems to understand my situation, well I guess he's in a similar one, so thats cool. I do feel lucky to have people who are so helpful, and concerned with my problems. I mean I try to give simple advice, but I don't know allot, and don't want to give out false info. My cousin I told you about though has a good book about all the bio meds, she thinks I would enjoy, because I really like to know about meds more, and use for my benefit and help others as well.
I hope you feel better, but at least you know now what to expect, I read the post about nardil2007, and he's just ahead of you, thats pretty lucky, you can pretty much know ahead of time.
MAOI's are something I have faith in, theres just something that won't let me stop it. Oh about the friend/brother thing, i have a great story.
I probably mentioned that it was nates birthday(my best frind) and as I say we get each other like knowonw else would understand. Any way I was supposed to go out for supper with him but he called and said reservations were in like an hour and I had no ride. I assured him though I would meet up with him later.Oh I was on facebook, which I never be, and my female friend who I haven't seen for a while, which I am very fond of and think about all th time, she's like the girl in the rain, like seriously, I always said I would marry her. Any way I messaged he back, not realizing she was online saying she can call or come see me anytime. She asked me what I was doing tonight, I told her about nates b-day later, she said what about right now, since she was in town, I was like nervous as hell, but said just give me like 20 mins to shower and drop down.
So she walked in the door and my heart skipped a beat, like always, she's beatiful, smart, sweeter than sugar, just perfect, in my eyes. So we sat down and started talking, at first I was nrvous, then I started opening up to her, we taked for like 4 1/2 hours, she missed basketball, I and was a little late catching up with nate, but I knew he would understand. Anyway she was so understanding, and I was sure she still felt something for me, because we almost got something on the go a couple years ago, but i'm glad we didn't, cause we would not be like we are now. She does have a boyfriend but she told me she dosn't know what she wants relationship wise, but has the rest of her life kinda planned out. Then she said, "why are you single shawn?". I told her for one thing, right now I choose to be, and also I haven't found the right person. So long story short, I came out and told her taht I think about her all the time, and that she was the girl I wanted, I then added but not yet because I have a long way to go. She also said if we were together I coudln't handle it if you fell back to your old ways, I said hey, don't worry I mean in 6 months to 5 years, I will look you up, and maybe, most likely our lives will be gone in different directions, so I asked her what she thought ,she said, get to the place you want to be, and then we'll talk. I just know it's meant to be. Any way she's gonna vist me at least once a week, and I'm gonna teach her guitar, and have her sing, but she said I will never here her sing, I was like we shall see. That made me so happy.Later on she dropped me off with my buddies, who were all loaded, I gave her a hug and kiss on the cheek and tol her to call me when se got back from st. Johns. Then the first time I exposed myself to all my buddies drinking, it was hard at first, but then I just had such a laugh watching a bunch of drunken fools, it's weird being on the other side of it, and just drank away at my water. They were all asking me, how the f*ck did you do it shawn? I was like it's not easy, I just force myself. It was amaizing, they actually told me they wanted to do it too. I told them, listen, you don't have a drinking problem like me, and don't feel like just cause I have to do it, you guys don't. So that was that night. Last night I hung out with my friend kyle, and he had recently had a bad breakup, and had his heart broke. So we had some deep conversations, I told him that I had been through allot buddy, and I'm hear. He said something to me that made me fell so much better. He said shawn, like you didn't only quit drinking, you quit smoking, we were so worried because you were doing ex and blow, everyday, and your face was white a sunk in, and everbody says they've never seen someone as strong as me. I just dropped it, and he had quit pot, which he smoked all day everyday, but he replaced it with alcohol. We dropped him at the bar, and I told him me and him are gonna chill tommorrow(today), without the booze and, he can talk to me about anything, and I realized even in the last couple of days, just don't keep anything inside, which I realized more last night, I seen so many people who were so happy to see me, and so proud of me saying how strong I was. It was a mjor boost, and when I got around people who I'm usually shy with, I coud'nt shut up. I don't know if it was the meds, or just the the feeling of strength people made me see I had. I definately feel happier when I'm with my friends, just being ther and getting out, but I still always have that initial nervousness, but like you said, I am staying with this nardil, maybe for longer then I said before especially it I get augmentation.
I told the doctor to fax my referall, but of course they mailed it. It should get there tuesday or wednesday. So hopefully they see I've been a regular patient for years and maybe will get me in before chritmas. And yes it's the "pusher" lol.
Well thats my last couple of days, I'm getting out more, and enjoying, with my close friends. Hopefully I can keep it up.
Hope to hear back soon.
your friend,
thatSHWANguy
Posted by JadeKelly on December 7, 2008, at 12:30:00
In reply to Re: no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!!, posted by that_guy23 on December 6, 2008, at 11:58:45
> Hey jade from ?,
Haha, Hey Shawn, from US, beyond that I'll tell ya anything you want to know if you want to babblemail me. Just find one of my posts and click on the blue name, then follow prompts to send. Actually I'll send you one, then if you want to use it you can! This post first! So how are things? I know the're good, already read to bottom!!!
>
> I know you didn't desert me(Never!!!) Just trying to figure some stuff out.
, I just felt like messaging you, I do enjoy our coversation. If you did tell me where your form, sorry, but I seem to have a bad memory.lol.
*(SAME!)I enjoy our conversations too. Message me anytime. I'll do same. Like I know with friend and girl in town it may be a while till I hear from you! But you have to tell somebody, right!!
>
> You are right about d/r, he is a big help. hes pretty damn smart! Somone I feel I can really trust for advice. He seems to understand my situation, well I guess he's in a similar one, so thats cool.Yeah, please ask d/r if you ever aren't sure about a med, dose, etc. I would, even if prescibed by Doc.
I do feel lucky to have people who are so helpful, and concerned with my problems. I mean I try to give simple advice, but I don't know allot, and don't want to give out false info.
Well, first, people like to help people who are helping themselves. You're a young adult, and taking charge of your life. Keep doing that and I have the feeling you'll have all the help you need.
Second, lets face it, we both came here for help! But we both have things to offer, some guy is probably following your story right now and gaining hope from it. Maybe he won't self medicate cause he sees a better way.
Yeah, me too! I found that any "bad" info I give out is going to be erring on the side of caution, AS YOU WELL KNOW!!! People don't want to hear that. Now,I just post what are my personal experiences. Or someone close to me.
My cousin I told you about though has a good book about all the bio meds, she thinks I would enjoy, because I really like to know about meds more, and use for my benefit and help others as well.Exactly. Me too. I want that book the Doc's use, but in English. I don't discount personal experience here tho either. I had 15 minutes with my PDoc to explain MAOI's. That's just not enough time to use them safely. It's up to us.
>
> I hope you feel better, but at least you know now what to expect, I read the post about nardil2007, and he's just ahead of you, thats pretty lucky, you can pretty much know ahead of time.Yeah, if not for him, I may have quit by now. Either way, at least I wont second geuss myself. I'm really glad for the help, too!
>
> MAOI's are something I have faith in, theres just something that won't let me stop it.I feel the same way.
Oh about the friend/brother thing, i have a great story.
>
> I probably mentioned that it was nates birthday(my best frind) and as I say we get each other like knowonw else would understand. Any way I was supposed to go out for supper with him but he called and said reservations were in like an hour and I had no ride. I assured him though I would meet up with him later.Oh I was on facebook, which I never be, and my female friend who I haven't seen for a while, which I am very fond of and think about all th time, she's like the girl in the rain, like seriously, I always said I would marry her. Any way I messaged he back, not realizing she was online saying she can call or come see me anytime. She asked me what I was doing tonight, I told her about nates b-day later, she said what about right now, since she was in town, I was like nervous as hell, but said just give me like 20 mins to shower and drop down.
> So she walked in the door and my heart skipped a beat, like always, she's beatiful, smart, sweeter than sugar, just perfect, in my eyes. So we sat down and started talking, at first I was nrvous, then I started opening up to her, we taked for like 4 1/2 hours, she missed basketball, I and was a little late catching up with nate, but I knew he would understand. Anyway she was so understanding, and I was sure she still felt something for me, because we almost got something on the go a couple years ago, but i'm glad we didn't, cause we would not be like we are now. She does have a boyfriend but she told me she dosn't know what she wants relationship wise, but has the rest of her life kinda planned out. Then she said, "why are you single shawn?". I told her for one thing, right now I choose to be, and also I haven't found the right person. So long story short, I came out and told her taht I think about her all the time, and that she was the girl I wanted, I then added but not yet because I have a long way to go. She also said if we were together I coudln't handle it if you fell back to your old ways, I said hey, don't worry I mean in 6 months to 5 years, I will look you up, and maybe, most likely our lives will be gone in different directions, so I asked her what she thought ,she said, get to the place you want to be, and then we'll talk. I just know it's meant to be. Any way she's gonna vist me at least once a week, and I'm gonna teach her guitar, and have her sing, but she said I will never here her sing, I was like we shall see. That made me so happy.Wow Shawn!!! Is this the girl with the eyes, haha!!! You didn't tell me you had a girl in mind! Well, see what good comes when you help yourself! She sounds like a real sweetheart and something to really look forward to when you are ready! Sounds like she's interested in you, also! What timing for her to show up, and your friend! You must be feeling pretty good right now!
>
> Later on she dropped me off with my buddies, who were all loaded, I gave her a hug and kiss on the cheek and tol her to call me when se got back from st. Johns. Then the first time I exposed myself to all my buddies drinking, it was hard at first, but then I just had such a laugh watching a bunch of drunken fools, it's weird being on the other side of it, and just drank away at my water. They were all asking me, how the f*ck did you do it shawn? I was like it's not easy, I just force myself. It was amaizing, they actually told me they wanted to do it too. I told them, listen, you don't have a drinking problem like me, and don't feel like just cause I have to do it, you guys don't. So that was that night. Last night I hung out with my friend kyle, and he had recently had a bad breakup, and had his heart broke. So we had some deep conversations, I told him that I had been through allot buddy, and I'm hear. He said something to me that made me fell so much better. He said shawn, like you didn't only quit drinking, you quit smoking, we were so worried because you were doing ex and blow, everyday, and your face was white a sunk in, and everbody says they've never seen someone as strong as me. I just dropped it, and he had quit pot, which he smoked all day everyday, but he replaced it with alcohol. We dropped him at the bar, and I told him me and him are gonna chill tommorrow(today), without the booze and, he can talk to me about anything, and I realized even in the last couple of days, just don't keep anything inside, which I realized more last night, I seen so many people who were so happy to see me, and so proud of me saying how strong I was. It was a mjor boost, and when I got around people who I'm usually shy with, I coud'nt shut up. I don't know if it was the meds, or just the the feeling of strength people made me see I had.Gosh, Shawn, this is so great!!!! continue, haha
I definately feel happier when I'm with my friends, just being ther and getting out, but I still always have that initial nervousness, but like you said, I am staying with this nardil, maybe for longer then I said before especially it I get augmentation.
Sounds like maybe you are already getting results, Shawn. You're so much better than when I first met you. They say sometimes others notice first! Has your family noticed/said anything? Course thats harder cause they see you everyday.
>
> I told the doctor to fax my referall, but of course they mailed it. It should get there tuesday or wednesday. So hopefully they see I've been a regular patient for years and maybe will get me in before chritmas. And yes it's the "pusher" lol.He scares me a little, but it seems this is the only way. What did you decide on? PLEASE be careful. You have so much going for you now. How are you feeling on the Nardil by the way? Give me some details when you have time. Also, let me know what the new Doc says when that happens. What I've done in past that sometimes works, is call to see if there are any cancelations, you may get in sooner.
>
> Well thats my last couple of days, I'm getting out more, and enjoying, with my close friends. Hopefully I can keep it up.And a GREAT couple of days it was!! You WILL Keep it up. You're a strong guy. You're becoming MY inspiration!
>
> Hope to hear back soon.
>
> your friend,
thatjadegirl!
>
>
Posted by that_guy23 on December 9, 2008, at 14:42:51
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!! » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on December 7, 2008, at 12:30:00
Hey Jade, I have some more great news, Ive been getting out around more and seeing everybody, that I hadn't seen in a while, they all do see a big change, and I beleive I am feeling better, and want to get out more often. I'm actually told that i'm the strongest person some people have seen. These are the people that know haow bad into it all i was.
Heres the greatest news, sunday, I was stuck home alone, but it wasn't that big a deal, I talked to one of my female friends on the internet, and she said sh had nothing to do and missed me. This wasn't the same one I had mentioned before. Any way, she ended up coming over. One thing led to another, we talked and talked and talked. Se has an acute case of bipolar, but she deals with it on her own, and she is very strong, I seen her come a long way!! It turned out she had feelings for more for a like 6 or 7 months. I had always kinda thought of her that way as well, but she never showed me signs. One thing led to another and we hooked up. I am starting to fall for her already too, and we now go out. She was pretty bad into drugs, and she's giving it up, for me, and has one chance, if shes falls back, thats as far as it can go. But I beleive in her. I stll have low blood pressure ansd sexuall as effects, which she knows, but I am still planning on getting that augmentation.
well I must go and get ready, I'm waitiing on my girlfriend.
hope to hear from you soon.
your friend,
Shawn
Posted by JadeKelly on December 9, 2008, at 16:14:18
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION-Hi that guy!!!, posted by that_guy23 on December 9, 2008, at 14:42:51
> Hey Jade, I have some more great news, Ive been getting out around more and seeing everybody, that I hadn't seen in a while, they all do see a big change, and I beleive I am feeling better, and want to get out more often. I'm actually told that i'm the strongest person some people have seen. These are the people that know haow bad into it all i was.
>
> Heres the greatest news, sunday, I was stuck home alone, but it wasn't that big a deal, I talked to one of my female friends on the internet, and she said sh had nothing to do and missed me. This wasn't the same one I had mentioned before. Any way, she ended up coming over. One thing led to another, we talked and talked and talked. Se has an acute case of bipolar, but she deals with it on her own, and she is very strong, I seen her come a long way!! It turned out she had feelings for more for a like 6 or 7 months. I had always kinda thought of her that way as well, but she never showed me signs. One thing led to another and we hooked up. I am starting to fall for her already too, and we now go out. She was pretty bad into drugs, and she's giving it up, for me, and has one chance, if shes falls back, thats as far as it can go. But I beleive in her. I stll have low blood pressure ansd sexuall as effects, which she knows, but I am still planning on getting that augmentation.
>
> well I must go and get ready, I'm waitiing on my girlfriend.
>
> hope to hear from you soon.
>
> your friend,
> ShawnGood grief shawn!
You've turned into the poster child for Nardil! You sound happy, do you attribute that to Nardil, or just good timing and people getting in touch, etc? Doesn't sound like social Phobia to me! If thats social phobia, give me some. Also, was wondering what you're BP has been like. I'm wondering if thats whats making me so tired all the time. Has your's evened out, and you have more energy?
Well anyway, so glad to hear about your new social life. Seems you've become a social butterfly, all your friends want some of what you have, which is strength. Good for you. Once again, you inspire me. Okay, have fun on your date and we'll talk again soon. Want to hear about your "girls" haha, but also about what you're feeling on Nardil. This gives me new faith.
>
Posted by that_guy23 on December 10, 2008, at 12:01:36
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on December 9, 2008, at 16:14:18
hey jade!
haha, thtas a good one, but I wouldn't go that far with it. I am happier and I can attribute that to nardil, but it's also allot of pushing myself, but the nardil pushed me, and like you said everything happened at once. Before danielle came over, this girl added me to msn, and it was like the first time iv'e been on it for about 2 years. I asked her if I new her, it turned out that she put in the wrong email adress, but she was like, your cute, I told her she was pretty fine herself. SHe was from St. Johns, and we had plans to meet up the next time I was in there, but thats just an example of how things are happening, I'm getting close to my girlfriend, which just happened out of know where. She has to quit the prty scene, and she wants to, she says she wouldn't do anything like that ,which dosen't compare close to having me. So this friday the 2 of us are actually babysitting my cousin.
I can see how you would say it dosen't sound like SP, but it's still there and I find maybe the depression has relieved more, but both have changed, and yes through the nardil. I upped the dosage on my own to 90, and see old pdoc. tommorrow, because the hospital mailed my referall, instead of faxing it, and they still didn't recieve it, after specifacally telling them 2-3 times That i would appretiate getting it faxed, and they are expecting it. But I guess thats all you can do. I figur just so I don't screw myself over I should go to my appointment. But I feel that the nardil will have more effect yet.
My BP is actually pretty low, even lower than it was when I had hypotension, and I have a machine to keep track of it. it's been as low as 70's/40's to 90's/50's-low 60's. My energy dosn't actually seem so bad, although it's not top notch. Its the cold that I can't handle at all.
Thank you I have been more social, but far from a social butterfly. It has been much easier just being more open with people, so yes the nardil, is something I still have faith in, and If I were you, I would definately stick out that parnate, I beleive theres just something about these MAOI's. Parnate is supposed to be better for depression, but I have Sp + depression so maybe nardil would be better for me. Only time will tell. So tell me all about the parnate, and how you've been, but remember, unless you have to stop, stick with it.
Thanks, it's amazing that I inspire you, but I do have a ways to go.
hope to hear from you soon.
Your good friend shawn
Posted by JadeKelly on December 12, 2008, at 17:59:07
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION, posted by that_guy23 on December 10, 2008, at 12:01:36
> hey jade!
>
> haha, thtas a good one, but I wouldn't go that far with it.Hi Mr. Popularity!
Eveyone wants to have what Shawn has! Btw-I think my last post got cut off for som reason. Don't remember how long it was, but oh well.
>I am happier and I can attribute that to nardil, but it's also allot of pushing myself, but the nardil pushed me, and like you said everything happened at once.
Shawn, the Nardil helped, but YOU made all this happen. Take the credit, guy!>Before danielle came over, this girl added me to msn, and it was like the first time iv'e been on it for about 2 years. I asked her if I new her, it turned out that she put in the wrong email adress,
(I doubt that seriously, haha)
but she was like, your cute, I told her she was pretty fine herself. SHe was from St. Johns, and we had plans to meet up the next time I was in there, but thats just an example of how things are happening, I'm getting close to my girlfriend, which just happened out of know where. She has to quit the prty scene, and she wants to, she says she wouldn't do anything like that ,which dosen't compare close to having me. So this friday the 2 of us are actually babysitting my cousin.
Girlfriend? Shawn, you stud, haha. What about the other girl, I thought she was "the one" Well, you'll have to figure out all these girls showin up I geuss. Word must be spreading!! Shawn's clean!!!
>
> I can see how you would say it dosen't sound like SP, but it's still there and I find maybe the depression has relieved more, but both have changed, and yes through the nardil. I upped the dosage on my own to 90, and see old pdoc. tommorrow, because the hospital mailed my referall, instead of faxing it, and they still didn't recieve it, after specifacally telling them 2-3 times That i would appretiate getting it faxed, and they are expecting it. But I guess thats all you can do. I figur just so I don't screw myself over I should go to my appointment. But I feel that the nardil will have more effect yet.Oh, don't forget, if you need earlier appt with new doc, just call every so often, sound a little desperate haha, and they will remember you if a cancellation comes up.
No, I'm sure SP can be debilitating, it just shows how much strength you have. You have overcome so much I'm amazed. Later, when you want, we'll look at old posts, cause you are a new man! What has your family been saying? They must be so proud of you.
>
> My BP is actually pretty low, even lower than it was when I had hypotension, and I have a machine to keep track of it. it's been as low as 70's/40's to 90's/50's-low 60's. My energy dosn't actually seem so bad, although it's not top notch. Its the cold that I can't handle at all.Yeah, mine got down to 63/48, thought I was going to faint more than once! I've been eating salt tablets, drinking gatorade (electrolites), coffee, I even recently read Ibuprefen is good for low blood pressure. Oh, and drinking LOTS of water.
>> Thank you I have been more social, but far from a social butterfly. It has been much easier just being more open with people, so yes the nardil, is something I still have faith in, and If I were you, I would definately stick out that parnate, I beleive theres just something about these MAOI's. Parnate is supposed to be better for depression, but I have Sp + depression so maybe nardil would be better for me. Only time will tell. So tell me all about the parnate, and how you've been, but remember, unless you have to stop, stick with it.
Well, I have no intention of quitting . I've come this far, right? I have that same feeling you do. I think you have to go all the way and see what you've got. And thats what I'm going to do. If I don't get the result I want, I'll augment. I'm thinking of adding Lamictal. I'd rather have Ritalin, but I can't imagine any PDoc's prescribing it. Hey, wait! What about the Pusher?? haha. Get his number for me and we can do some business. JK of course!
> > Thanks, it's amazing that I inspire you, but I do have a ways to go.Well you DO inspire me now, so I can't wait to see what a "ways to go" looks like!! Oh, did you get that book? I think your cousin mentioned it?
Glad to hear you and your girl are babysitting. I think thats cool.>
> hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Your good friend shawnHope to hear from YOU soon,
Your good friend,
~Jade.....Tag, your it!
Posted by kenny7 on December 14, 2008, at 1:49:24
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on December 12, 2008, at 17:59:07
Thanks so much jade for starting this thread. I've been lazy about many things and one has been posting/reading on this site. I always have finals this week. About three weeks ago I had syncope twice during a day (I was on 90mg, titrated up there too fast) in two different locations. First, when I woke up and hopped(not really) out of bed to get my girlfriend out of the house before the roommates (parents) woke up. Withing seconds my vision got blurry and my head got painfully (moderate) hot and I lost consciousness for a few seconds...Thus falling face forward onto a wooden chair (with the seat facing the other way)
Posted by kenny7 on December 14, 2008, at 1:55:27
In reply to Re: BEST NARDIL AUGMENTION, posted by kenny7 on December 14, 2008, at 1:49:24
(I am going to post this in intervals as to not lose anything like people on here have been)
I regained consciousness as soon or a half of a second after I had fainted. The second time was when I went to my primary care to ask for and eventually receive Cialis (oh yeah). I sat down for a few waiting for them to call me only to remember I had to go sign in and all that (I'm new to this place, I wasn't delirious....yet). I got up walked four feet over and as I was waiting for the receptionist
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