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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
- Scott
Posted by Zyprexa on November 23, 2008, at 18:45:40
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
The effects get unberable. Effects, side effects. When I took it I did better on 5mg or less. The doctor kept pushing for more, I got up to 15mg and he wanted me on 30mg?! I told him I would not take it.
Posted by Zyprexa on November 23, 2008, at 18:49:10
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by Zyprexa on November 23, 2008, at 18:45:40
Regardless I would never go back on Abilify.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on November 23, 2008, at 18:56:46
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
I took 10mg for a while, many many months. I told pdoc that I was feeling kinda sluggish. Well, that was *kind* of true, I suppose, but I was quite functional. He said to stop taking it. cold turkey. um? WTF? So, I took 5mg for a month and then quit. I had racing thoughts whenever I reduced/discontinued the med. The last time it toom 4 weeks for the racing thoughts to slow down to a jog/trot.
Overall, not many side effects at all on this med. I have experience with seroquel, geodon, zyprexa and abilify is BY FAR my preferred.
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2008, at 19:52:41
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » SLS, posted by llurpsienoodle on November 23, 2008, at 18:56:46
Just no ap's for me. Personal choice. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2008, at 19:54:07
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » llurpsienoodle, posted by Phillipa on November 23, 2008, at 19:52:41
Sorry Lurpsie for Scott. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 20:58:27
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by Zyprexa on November 23, 2008, at 18:45:40
> The effects get unberable. Effects, side effects.
Can you describe some of the side effects you experienced?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on November 23, 2008, at 23:47:40
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » Zyprexa, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 20:58:27
Even 5 mg was too much for me. I felt like a darkness came over me, sucking all life out of me. Hated it. I just layed on teh floor couldn't move. Didn't feel dysphoric so much as just like a corpse.
In studies for schizophrenia, 5mg was best for negative symptoms. More would be for psychosis or mania more.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 24, 2008, at 1:50:09
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
> I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
>
>
> - ScottMy son was a zombie on it. Paranoid. He was on higher dose for mania. What does 10mg Abilify do for you? If very small amount turned out to be excellent augment for say, Parnate, I wouldn't be adverse to trying it if I knew why.
~Jade
Posted by Tomatheus on November 24, 2008, at 2:07:25
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
> I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
Increased depression prevents me from taking more than 5 mg/day of Abilify. The depression that I had at 7 mg/day was even intolerable.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on November 24, 2008, at 6:20:46
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on November 24, 2008, at 1:50:09
> > I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> My son was a zombie on it. Paranoid. He was on higher dose for mania. What does 10mg Abilify do for you? If very small amount turned out to be excellent augment for say, Parnate, I wouldn't be adverse to trying it if I knew why.I am still amazed when two people react to the same drug in opposite ways.
I addressed questions regarding my experience with Abilify here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20081123/msgs/864879.html
I don't know at what dosage Abilify occupies enough postsynaptic dopamine D2 receptors so as to produce sufficient agonism to obtain an antidepressant effect. Perhaps it is this agonism that produces too much activation and agitation for some people. An alternate explanation is that the increase in DA release due to presynaptic blockade reverses the agonistic properties of Abilify postsynaptically. This might explain the sensations of numbness and cognitive slowing some people experience.
Maybe one needs to start right at 10-20mg to produce a balance more quickly and avoid side effects. I know that's a big "maybe", but I have seen fewer side effects on people begun at 10-20mg than those being reported here at 5mg. The population I observed was at a partial hospitalization program with 100-150 patients.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on November 24, 2008, at 12:51:42
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on November 24, 2008, at 1:50:09
Hi Scott,
Not to oversimplify, but he was a kid at the time, being treated for active aggressive mania, on other medications (large dose of Depakote). Really, as (I think) they are prescribing off label, I'd be surprized to see the same reactions in most people. So many variables with dosage and usage. I'm quite sure a small dose, just as an augment, would have entirely different effect on me.
~Jade
>
>
Posted by Roslynn on November 24, 2008, at 15:33:34
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
Hi Scott,
I haven't heard of the increased depression with a higher dose, have you?
I'm on 2.5 per day, now I am scared to increase.
Thought there was someone here who swore by 30 mg??
Scott, are you on it and is it for depression augmentation? (Mine is.)
Posted by desolationrower on November 24, 2008, at 16:25:17
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by Roslynn on November 24, 2008, at 15:33:34
Scott, have you seen this study: http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=607
thats what i was looking at. The 10mg a day shows significantly better on PEC score, but worse on negative symptoms. Now, generalizing to other disorders from schizophrenia might not work, but if anyhting i'd htink a lower dose would be required for non-schizo people. Thats how it seemed to work for me: i suffer from insufficient aggression, drive, etc. If that dimension of one's personality is in excess, it can cause problems, and 10-20mg abilify might be good. These higher doses are just numbing, and i think this was the case even at 5mg for me as i believe i have a truly sh*t dopaminergic system. For the agitated forms of anxiety 10-20 might help.
-d/r
Posted by bleauberry on November 24, 2008, at 17:55:51
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
Looking at websites where people rate and review their medication experiences, most of the people who rated abilify badly complained of one or more of...akathisia, fatigue, cognitive fog, or worsened depression.
Only about half the people noted their dose size though, so that isn't much help. But I think it is safe to assume most were in the 5mg to 10mg range, as that is where most doctors start at. My doctor said he starts people at 30mg from day 1. Holy cow.
What prevents me from taking 10mg-20mg? Well let's see. I have to get up at 3:45am tomorrow to be at work at 5:00, which is unusual because I usually start work at 7:00. Band rehearsal on Wednesday night, can't afford any intolerable frieky reaction that night. It is hard enough just to drag myself out of the house and try to put a totally fake decent attitude on for a few hours. Have to get up the next day early again. Then back to a normal routine.
I have to pick and choose my moments of diving into a new med, because job, outside activities, children, wife, grocery shopping, woodstove, bills, cooking, dishes, laundry, car gas, and well, ya know, I have to remain functional enough to be able to do all these things. I've fought my way through some horrible moments where I knew most of the people at the nearby psychiatric hospital were in better condition than I was, even though I was at work and they were locked up. I have to pick and choose my moments of trying a new med. Abilify is on the list. I just need that safe window of 3 or 4 days where if I become suicidal or totally frieked out with akathisia, I can ride it out.
Another problem is sensitivity. While most people could for example handle 5mg lexapro without much trouble, just maybe some annoying side effects, 5mg is like a sledge hammer and a dump truck to me. As is 5mg prozac, or 75mg wellbutrin, or 12.5mg zoloft. I mean, I would have to be hospitalized in handcuffs to be able to somehow withstand the massive undescribable toxic poisoning feeling of those doses. So obviously, yeah, a bit of hesitation at talk of 10mg-20mg abilify.
I like the sound of Parnate a lot better. Abilify or Zyprexa later maybe. I haven't seen any pubmed abstracts that showed abilify good for depression as monotherapy. I have seen a few scattered reports of it being good, and I'm sure that in those pubmed studies where abilify did not beat placebo, there had to be a few people that responded very well.
Based on anecdotal observations, I think abilify and lexapro have some kind of magic together. Not sure about its combination with other antidepressants.
Posted by Zyprexa on November 24, 2008, at 18:19:08
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » Zyprexa, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 20:58:27
Lack of sleep, quality of sleep. Low blood sugars. Inability to think clearly. Iritated. Psychotic thoughts, thinking people talking about me. Made the zyprexa not work at all. For a while there I was taking 2-3-4-5 times the usual dose of zyprexa, with little effect.
Posted by Jeroen on November 25, 2008, at 11:46:26
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » Zyprexa, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 20:58:27
:(
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2008, at 7:40:15
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by Roslynn on November 24, 2008, at 15:33:34
> Hi Scott,
>
> I haven't heard of the increased depression with a higher dose, have you?
>
> I'm on 2.5 per day, now I am scared to increase.
>
> Thought there was someone here who swore by 30 mg??
>
> Scott, are you on it and is it for depression augmentation? (Mine is.)My ex-girlfriend is taking Abilify 30mg along with Seroquel and Wellbutrin. At this point, it would be difficult to guess how she might get along with a reduced dosage of Abilify. Her mixed-manias are severe, and her doctor cannot justify making any changes right now.
I take Abilify 20mg for the depressive phase of bipolar disorder. I don't have manic episodes unless a drug triggers them. Twice, I discontinued Abilify to see if I really needed it. Both times, I relapsed quite hard into depression, and consequently restarted the drug.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 26, 2008, at 7:41:27
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by desolationrower on November 24, 2008, at 16:25:17
> Scott, have you seen this study: http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=607
>
> thats what i was looking at. The 10mg a day shows significantly better on PEC score, but worse on negative symptoms.
Thanks for this...
- Scott
Posted by Roslynn on November 26, 2008, at 17:43:18
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg? » Roslynn, posted by SLS on November 26, 2008, at 7:40:15
Hi Scott,
Thanks for your reply. It seems to be helping my depression too. Do you have any cognitive side effects?
> My ex-girlfriend is taking Abilify 30mg along with Seroquel and Wellbutrin. At this point, it would be difficult to guess how she might get along with a reduced dosage of Abilify. Her mixed-manias are severe, and her doctor cannot justify making any changes right now.
>
> I take Abilify 20mg for the depressive phase of bipolar disorder. I don't have manic episodes unless a drug triggers them. Twice, I discontinued Abilify to see if I really needed it. Both times, I relapsed quite hard into depression, and consequently restarted the drug.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by bleauberry on November 26, 2008, at 19:06:19
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
I've been studying abilify all day on the net at several dozen different websites and pharmacological book excerpts. I've seen so much I can't remember exactly where I saw everything. But one thing that stuck out in my mind was how one prominent psychopharmacologist in New York has success with very low doses of abilify, at 2.5mg per day, or 2.5mg every other day or once every 3 days, primarily for the depressive side of things.
Posted by Phillipa on November 26, 2008, at 19:39:33
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by bleauberry on November 26, 2008, at 19:06:19
The North East has great docs in my personal opinion as originally from Ct. Love Phillipa
Posted by Roslynn on November 27, 2008, at 12:01:42
In reply to Re: Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by bleauberry on November 26, 2008, at 19:06:19
Hi bleauberry,
Yes, the 2.5 mg of Abilify in combo with my other meds seems to do something. A small boost, in mood or motivation. Not sure why, or if the effect will last, though i'm praying it does since things are hard for me this time of year with early darkness.
> I've been studying abilify all day on the net at several dozen different websites and pharmacological book excerpts. I've seen so much I can't remember exactly where I saw everything. But one thing that stuck out in my mind was how one prominent psychopharmacologist in New York has success with very low doses of abilify, at 2.5mg per day, or 2.5mg every other day or once every 3 days, primarily for the depressive side of things.
Posted by JadeKelly on December 2, 2008, at 15:30:38
In reply to Abilify - What prevents you from taking 10-20mg?, posted by SLS on November 23, 2008, at 17:33:51
> I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
>
>
> - ScottScott, hope I'm allowed to do this! Just in case you missed it, forget who actual poster was (recent):
~Jade
In reply to Re: Abilify as Monotherapy for Depression? » Maria3667, posted by bleauberry on November 29, 2008, at 16:16:29
"Abilify monotherapy has worked well for me. I take 2.5 mg. Within three days I had less depression AND anxiety, more social impulse, less anhedonia. Can't complain...."
Posted by SLS on December 2, 2008, at 19:16:42
In reply to Re: Abilify -SCOTT HAVE A LOOK » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on December 2, 2008, at 15:30:38
> > I am curious as to what prevents people from taking 10-20mg of Abilify.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott, hope I'm allowed to do this! Just in case you missed it, forget who actual poster was (recent):
>
> ~Jade
>
> In reply to Re: Abilify as Monotherapy for Depression? » Maria3667, posted by bleauberry on November 29, 2008, at 16:16:29
>
> "Abilify monotherapy has worked well for me. I take 2.5 mg. Within three days I had less depression AND anxiety, more social impulse, less anhedonia. Can't complain...."
My doctor has seen similar results using low dosage Abilify. I was really hoping that people who were inadequately treated with low dosages would find success at higher dosage the way I have.Thanks for the citation of a previous post. It was quite helpful. The most recent FDA approved indication for Abilify is as an adjunct to traditional antidepressants.
- Scott
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