![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Marty on June 4, 2008, at 12:20:38
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
It's called DEPRESSION/Psychogenic Sick Behaviour.
My guess it's that you feel it more now because you don't take or play around with your meds. Your brains is pretty much used to work with them and even if depression wasn't the primary reason you started taking them you will end up feeling depressed for a sometime (a couple weeks, months?) if you stop taking them.
I would advise you to take your med seriously from now on AND plan what you will try next because those meds ain't cutting it enough for you. .. when I say 'plan' I DONT mean think AND TALK about it forever on dr-bob on any other site. The fear to try new meds has already stole you enough good days/month/years of your life Philippa.
If you Pdoc doesn't want to try new thing with you, SWITCH your Pdoc ASAP.
Act now:
1- RESUME your meds and be responsible about it.
2- PLAN what you'll try next AND with which Pdoc.
3- TRY. .. failure ? back to Step #1 !Pardon me if you find me 'incisive'.
I play this game, fight this war for more than a decade now and know how nightmarish it is... but it's better than the OTHER alternative that you are living right now: NOT playing by the rules of this war and so be depressed.Trial & Error is better than inaction which brings you FULLY to your disorder.
What you do think ?
Can I ask you:
1. how many meds you tried ?
2. which one ?
3. Why are you so afraid of trying/switching them ?Hang on,
/\/\arty
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 12:33:50
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » Phillipa, posted by Marty on June 4, 2008, at 12:20:38
All SSRI's SNRI's a few TCA's all benzos two mood stabalizers. I don't like what is being said about meds and how they don't work for a lot of people. I think I may be one of them. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 12:41:53
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » Marty, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 12:33:50
Marty didn't stop my meds added pexeva low dose and just switched to paxil with luvox as can't afford pexeva and it's a different salt even though still considerd paxil. Love Phillipa
Posted by IAMtheWalrus on June 4, 2008, at 12:51:04
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
> I guess this is a question as I don't know but I just don't care anymore about taking meds or not taking them. If I don't take them I just fade away if I take them feel horrible and docs don't care. So what is this called I don't know nothing to do nowhere to go no one but the yelling and can't take it any more. Well I ranted I guess. Phillipa confused to the point of not caring. Find me a corner. Like a wounded animal I'll lay down. And see what happens nothing.
I know the feeling, it's awful, but with time and the right meds it'll pass. Best wishes.
-W
Posted by Marty on June 4, 2008, at 14:14:40
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » Phillipa, posted by IAMtheWalrus on June 4, 2008, at 12:51:04
Phillipa, are you very sensitive to side effects ? Did you ever tried Imipramine ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imipramine
/\/\arty
Posted by johnj on June 4, 2008, at 18:35:05
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » Marty, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 12:33:50
Phillipa:
You said you tried nortyptline for one day at 10-mg and it sedated you. You never gave it a chance as you seem to do with all meds and advice. You need a new direction and must decide on one and take it.
Best wishes
johnj
Posted by Molybdenum on June 4, 2008, at 18:40:05
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » IAMtheWalrus, posted by Marty on June 4, 2008, at 14:14:40
Hi Phillipa,
I agree with Marty, it's just called "depression". We all get used to feeling OK on the meds and then some days come along and it feels like you're back where it all started from. That's my take anyway.
And you have to keep taking your meds because you know that stopping will likely make things worse, maybe a lot worse.
And you should remember that you've felt this way before and gotten through it. Right? So swallow what you need to + anything that'll help it pass, pull the blinds down, put on a movie, pretend it's night-time if that'll help.
Tomorrow you WILL feel better. That's the only good thing about feeling bad Phillipa - that you've generally only got one direction to go, meaning UP..!
Take Care.
Me Be Damned. :)
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 20:52:01
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Molybdenum on June 4, 2008, at 18:40:05
Thanks guys will continue my meds. As far as a TCA is concerned in the 70's one was given to me that the pdoc called an upper downer and have never figured out what it was as it kept me up all night crying and walking the streets any idea this one might have been as it was supposed to be for panic attacks. Pamelor took. One other one with an L I think. But that one left me in the twilight zone and I had to work as was nursing then. Love Phillipa
Posted by elanor roosevelt on June 4, 2008, at 21:29:36
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling poorly
Was there a time you felt okay on this med combo?
Phillipa,
sometimes you have to regrouptry to remember that when the meds do work you do get a sense of future
hang in there
Posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2008, at 10:07:15
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
> I guess this is a question as I don't know but I just don't care anymore about taking meds or not taking them. If I don't take them I just fade away if I take them feel horrible and docs don't care. So what is this called I don't know nothing to do nowhere to go no one but the yelling and can't take it any more. Well I ranted I guess. Phillipa confused to the point of not caring. Find me a corner. Like a wounded animal I'll lay down. And see what happens nothing.
I don't think you can say meds don't work when you generally give them up within days of starting them. What you should say is you're not willing to put up with the side effects.
As i've said before if you stay with your present routine nothing will change.
How about a meditation course to help with your anxiety? If you can't find a class near you order a video or read a book. But meditation is being taught in many places now.
Inorder to change you must initiate change.You remind me of a car with the gear in neutral asking why am I not moving.
Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2008, at 12:08:17
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2008, at 10:07:15
The frozen and can't move fear that's what it is as I have added paxil with no side effect and feel no fear or anxiety more I just don't care attitude. Like if you die today why is it different from tomorrow? It's really the same. Phillipa
Posted by undopaminergic on June 5, 2008, at 14:24:29
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2008, at 12:08:17
> The frozen and can't move fear that's what it is as I have added paxil with no side effect and feel no fear or anxiety more I just don't care attitude. Like if you die today why is it different from tomorrow? It's really the same. Phillipa
>SSRIs can cause apathy. Maybe that is what you're experiencing?
Posted by Jeroen on June 5, 2008, at 14:35:58
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
depression and hope is the key to keep us going
someone told me this, IF IT CAN OR WOULD GO WRONG IT WILL
HE TOLD ME BEFORE I TOOK GEODON TO BE VERY CAREFULL WITH SUCH A NEW MEDICINE,
if it can go bad it will
he gets shorts impromen from this basatd doctor
the sane doctor now let me refuse to get therapy in the hospital
suns of bitatches
Posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2008, at 14:41:31
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
> I guess this is a question as I don't know but I just don't care anymore about taking meds or not taking them. If I don't take them I just fade away if I take them feel horrible and docs don't care. So what is this called I don't know nothing to do nowhere to go no one but the yelling and can't take it any more. Well I ranted I guess. Phillipa confused to the point of not caring. Find me a corner. Like a wounded animal I'll lay down. And see what happens nothing.
A question for you Jan. You have appealed for help on babble before. Will you follow anyone's advice? Are you just venting or do you want to change? Seems like I've read posts like this from you before and nothing changes. I'm not attacking you but what are you willing to do to help yourself?
Posted by okydoky on June 5, 2008, at 22:20:32
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by bulldog2 on June 5, 2008, at 14:41:31
Jan,
I have been on psychobabble on and off so I don't know if you have posted all or most of the med trials you have been on and if any of them helped in any way. This could be helpful to some on here to be able to make more informed suggestions as to what you might "need" to try medicinally.
I have no suggetions as I have gone day to day for about three months just trying to sleep until the next day. I did have some HOPE left else I would never have bothered posting here. I think or hope you do too.
oky
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2008, at 3:53:24
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
> I guess this is a question as I don't know but I just don't care anymore about taking meds or not taking them. If I don't take them I just fade away if I take them feel horrible and docs don't care. So what is this called I don't know nothing to do nowhere to go no one but the yelling and can't take it any more. Well I ranted I guess. Phillipa confused to the point of not caring. Find me a corner. Like a wounded animal I'll lay down. And see what happens nothing.
It's as others have called DEPRESSION. Its something that requires effort, more than the average person without a biochemical disorder, to carry their daily tasks.
"...find me a corner.." is retreat. The continual retreat just feeds upon itself. You also have to know that its NOT your fault.
I have similar ideations that my bedroom or my doctors' offices are somehow safe places. There are no safe places. This doesn't mean one needs to add that to a paranoia list, its just the way life is.
Life is never intrinsically safe, but there is always a way out sometime. If one continues to create circular arguments, it just ends up as "checkmate", and furthers decompensation, which is just a lowering of functionality -- the ability to carry out daily life and the increase of a mental disorder.
If you truly didn't care any more, you wouldn't be on here for help --- and I hope you continue to be on here and continue to try to fight the urge to retreat. If it sounds harsh it isn't meant to be.-- much wishes
Jay
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2008, at 4:23:05
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore » Marty, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 12:33:50
> All SSRI's SNRI's a few TCA's all benzos two mood stabalizers. I don't like what is being said about meds and how they don't work for a lot of people. I think I may be one of them. Love Phillipa
There is at times a lot of negativity towards medication because INDIVIDUALS who have gone through trials, and some of them may not have tried the combinations long enough, express frustration.I was sort of surprised by the almost complete negative response to the Newsweek article, not that anyone has to agree about medicating children -- it was an individual very tough case, because only a small number of BP cases have been seen in very young children. At any rate, that is a side tangent.
It is fine to compare illnesses and the struggles we go through, but you have to realize, and I think this is important to stress in general, besides the "don't believe all you hear", that each person's case, because they feel compelled to post their struggles, is different from anothers, and is different from yours and your body chemistry and your psychological makeup.
Though we have discovered a lot since the 1950s, psychiatry is still more an art than a science -- it is evidence and scientifically based as far as medication, but identifying traits and how to deal with roadblocks and obstacles is an art.
And it isn't all medication. One can't just take a pill or even polypharmacy and wait for it to do everything. Its work. Whether you can afford therapy or not (it really would benefit society if healthcare or a universal healthcare paid for more of that but that's just my soapbox...), there are legitimate books you can buy or check out from libraries on self-help.
Its what you put into it, and if you can imagine an image of glue being pulled off a wall, that is the struggle of moving forward and away from the dark corner.There are much more than two mood stabilizers, there might be another TCA you havent tried such as Clomipramine, there are the tetracyclics (Remeron).
Also, although there are those who have had fantastic results as they have described, there is also no reason to jump directly to an MAOI or ECT or more drastic steps either -- they require considerable thought, and the last one is expensive not to mention though at one university I am familiar with that has performed many thousands and not a single patient has died, there are memory risks.
As for the existential question as to what day is different from another -- we know our past, we live in our present -- there is no predicting the future, other than to say, why make it the blackest of the black. Does that serve an existential purpose either? There is always something to be gained from life -- its not always obvious, but its there.And it sounds like and please I hope not, it is just a resonating feeling because I go from one feeling to the next myself, just like countless with depression there are latent suicidal ideations perhaps. That's natural even for someone who isn't beset with mental illness but is so stressed to the brink. But don't go down further into that pit.
You may be medication sensitive. So am I, although not to all medications -- some, because at the same time I am a rapid metabolizer for a lot of them, doses may be higher than for other medications (rapid metabolism means faster elimination of a particular medication or medication pathway than the average curve.) Also age, genetics, all these things play into things.So all I can say is that there are a lot of postings you could say are "case studies", found in journals -- one or two patients mentioned by a doctor or set of doctors (e.g. Mr. A with a history of [illness] was admitted and .... responded to ...[medication]).
I invite you not to think, as hard as possible -- I do after a number of years battling an illness, as a case. NAMI used to consider someone a Consumer, now a person with a biochemical illness is a Client, as in you go to a business and they help you with doing something, so you're a client of theirs. This is a move to try to not make someone feel like The Patient.
Please continue to follow up with whoever you are working with and try to get out and do something, anything, even if it seems so incredibly boring. By doing, we strengthen ourselves and distract ourselves from our own tendency to be distracted by an ilness.
-- best wishesJay
Posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 10:18:11
In reply to Re: INDIVIDUAL cases, can't stress more » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on June 7, 2008, at 4:23:05
> > All SSRI's SNRI's a few TCA's all benzos two mood stabalizers. I don't like what is being said about meds and how they don't work for a lot of people. I think I may be one of them. Love Phillipa
>
>
> There is at times a lot of negativity towards medication because INDIVIDUALS who have gone through trials, and some of them may not have tried the combinations long enough, express frustration.
>
> I was sort of surprised by the almost complete negative response to the Newsweek article, not that anyone has to agree about medicating children -- it was an individual very tough case, because only a small number of BP cases have been seen in very young children. At any rate, that is a side tangent.
>
>
> It is fine to compare illnesses and the struggles we go through, but you have to realize, and I think this is important to stress in general, besides the "don't believe all you hear", that each person's case, because they feel compelled to post their struggles, is different from anothers, and is different from yours and your body chemistry and your psychological makeup.
>
>
> Though we have discovered a lot since the 1950s, psychiatry is still more an art than a science -- it is evidence and scientifically based as far as medication, but identifying traits and how to deal with roadblocks and obstacles is an art.
>
>
> And it isn't all medication. One can't just take a pill or even polypharmacy and wait for it to do everything. Its work. Whether you can afford therapy or not (it really would benefit society if healthcare or a universal healthcare paid for more of that but that's just my soapbox...), there are legitimate books you can buy or check out from libraries on self-help.
>
>
> Its what you put into it, and if you can imagine an image of glue being pulled off a wall, that is the struggle of moving forward and away from the dark corner.
>
> There are much more than two mood stabilizers, there might be another TCA you havent tried such as Clomipramine, there are the tetracyclics (Remeron).
>
> Also, although there are those who have had fantastic results as they have described, there is also no reason to jump directly to an MAOI or ECT or more drastic steps either -- they require considerable thought, and the last one is expensive not to mention though at one university I am familiar with that has performed many thousands and not a single patient has died, there are memory risks.
>
>
> As for the existential question as to what day is different from another -- we know our past, we live in our present -- there is no predicting the future, other than to say, why make it the blackest of the black. Does that serve an existential purpose either? There is always something to be gained from life -- its not always obvious, but its there.
>
> And it sounds like and please I hope not, it is just a resonating feeling because I go from one feeling to the next myself, just like countless with depression there are latent suicidal ideations perhaps. That's natural even for someone who isn't beset with mental illness but is so stressed to the brink. But don't go down further into that pit.
>
>
> You may be medication sensitive. So am I, although not to all medications -- some, because at the same time I am a rapid metabolizer for a lot of them, doses may be higher than for other medications (rapid metabolism means faster elimination of a particular medication or medication pathway than the average curve.) Also age, genetics, all these things play into things.
>
> So all I can say is that there are a lot of postings you could say are "case studies", found in journals -- one or two patients mentioned by a doctor or set of doctors (e.g. Mr. A with a history of [illness] was admitted and .... responded to ...[medication]).
>
> I invite you not to think, as hard as possible -- I do after a number of years battling an illness, as a case. NAMI used to consider someone a Consumer, now a person with a biochemical illness is a Client, as in you go to a business and they help you with doing something, so you're a client of theirs. This is a move to try to not make someone feel like The Patient.
>
>
> Please continue to follow up with whoever you are working with and try to get out and do something, anything, even if it seems so incredibly boring. By doing, we strengthen ourselves and distract ourselves from our own tendency to be distracted by an ilness.
>
>
> -- best wishes
>
> Jayjay you also have to realize that many of her trials were abandoned within a couple day. I wrote that above. So we can't conclude that meds don't work. It's a problem with side effects.
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2008, at 12:13:34
In reply to Re: INDIVIDUAL cases, can't stress more, posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 10:18:11
Im Phillipa and she hasn't felt a thing from meds for years hence the negative post. Added paxil to luvox and nothing. Agree getting out it the best medicine around. At least for me. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 12:56:10
In reply to Re: INDIVIDUAL cases, can't stress more » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2008, at 12:13:34
> Im Phillipa and she hasn't felt a thing from meds for years hence the negative post. Added paxil to luvox and nothing. Agree getting out it the best medicine around. At least for me. Phillipa
yes agreed..You should go on a nice cruise
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2008, at 14:09:07
In reply to Re: INDIVIDUAL cases, can't stress more, posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 10:18:11
>
> jay you also have to realize that many of her trials were abandoned within a couple day. I wrote that above. So we can't conclude that meds don't work. It's a problem with side effects.
I understand this, but also medication side effects can have a placebo effect too. I'm not suggesting that you stop something within a day because it has a dangerous rash, but at some point you either accept the side effects or you accept the disorder.That has to come with one's willingness to put up with some effect that may be annoying but not life threatening or put up with the disorder.
Its a choice with living with the illness because the side effects are worse or going forward because the illness is worse.
If one thinks that there are no side effect free medication combinations, I have to say there is some unrealistic expectation.
I put up with side effects every day. I still take the AP (not for schizophrenia) that probably caused a neurological tic because at the moment -- not forever......hopefully, it makes my anxiety and confusion less than it used to be and makes me able to have a stable life and get out the door for the most, and hopefully return me back to as much functionality as I can in life.
HIV+ patients put up with side effects every day, even harsher, not just nausea but neurological consequences. And there it is a matter of living, or being ever afraid of the real possibility of developing multiple side illnesses which are the cause of death.
Nobody really dies from HIV alone. Its a dramatic example but I know of someone who decided the opposite and I still remember him.
And depression can mean for some people, a dangerous condition in the sense that it leaves them vulnerable to thoughts of suicide, low self esteem and reduced functionality that makes it hard to get and go to work.
All I'm saying is that sure, if you take a drug and develop a rare rash all over your body or have a 104 degree fever, there is a rationality that says, this is definitely not a good thing.But if you take an SSRI and in the first few days to a week develop nausea -- it may and often does go away. The same can apply with some of the jitters and other effects as doses are raised.
Tossed bottles following a trail after 2 days are not medication trials -- 2 days isn't even the length of psychoactive activity at all.Psychoactive substances that are going to help someone will show up several weeks later, and is the reason why agents aren't just stacked on at the same time if possible and tried for a week and dumped.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm medication sensitive and there are certain medications I wish I hadn't took -- but, on the other hand, no treatment can have the same result as overtreatment.
In the end, since most all of us are discussing as voluntary patients, its a voluntary choice. Have some side effects and pay attention to your life, your hobbies, your work and try not to obsess over the side effects.....
.... or choose not to take medication and with a serious depressive disorder, end up with rapid mood swings, retreating, and yes, I don't want to say it or trigger the though, but with the most serious cases, the ideation of suicide -- and even worse, death.
I don't want to be on my combination "for life", but if I have to be it on an "indefinite" status, which I don't like either......the chances of really bad things are lessened if I choose to continue to work through task oriented goals to gain as much of my life back and be as much as on par with my peers...
...and hopefully gradually reduce my medication requirements.
"Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a starter home. Choose dental insurance, leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose your future. But why would anyone want to do a thing like that?..." ....and eventually "...but I chose life." (Trainspotting)As Yogi Berra said, when you see a fork, take it. That's all I can say.
Posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 15:17:29
In reply to Re: Medications and choices » bulldog2, posted by yxibow on June 7, 2008, at 14:09:07
> >
> > jay you also have to realize that many of her trials were abandoned within a couple day. I wrote that above. So we can't conclude that meds don't work. It's a problem with side effects.
>
>
> I understand this, but also medication side effects can have a placebo effect too. I'm not suggesting that you stop something within a day because it has a dangerous rash, but at some point you either accept the side effects or you accept the disorder.
>
> That has to come with one's willingness to put up with some effect that may be annoying but not life threatening or put up with the disorder.
>
> Its a choice with living with the illness because the side effects are worse or going forward because the illness is worse.
>
> If one thinks that there are no side effect free medication combinations, I have to say there is some unrealistic expectation.
>
>
> I put up with side effects every day. I still take the AP (not for schizophrenia) that probably caused a neurological tic because at the moment -- not forever...
>
> ...hopefully, it makes my anxiety and confusion less than it used to be and makes me able to have a stable life and get out the door for the most, and hopefully return me back to as much functionality as I can in life.
>
> HIV+ patients put up with side effects every day, even harsher, not just nausea but neurological consequences. And there it is a matter of living, or being ever afraid of the real possibility of developing multiple side illnesses which are the cause of death.
>
> Nobody really dies from HIV alone. Its a dramatic example but I know of someone who decided the opposite and I still remember him.
>
>
> And depression can mean for some people, a dangerous condition in the sense that it leaves them vulnerable to thoughts of suicide, low self esteem and reduced functionality that makes it hard to get and go to work.
>
>
> All I'm saying is that sure, if you take a drug and develop a rare rash all over your body or have a 104 degree fever, there is a rationality that says, this is definitely not a good thing.
>
> But if you take an SSRI and in the first few days to a week develop nausea -- it may and often does go away. The same can apply with some of the jitters and other effects as doses are raised.
>
>
> Tossed bottles following a trail after 2 days are not medication trials -- 2 days isn't even the length of psychoactive activity at all.
>
> Psychoactive substances that are going to help someone will show up several weeks later, and is the reason why agents aren't just stacked on at the same time if possible and tried for a week and dumped.
>
>
> Don't get me wrong -- I'm medication sensitive and there are certain medications I wish I hadn't took -- but, on the other hand, no treatment can have the same result as overtreatment.
>
>
> In the end, since most all of us are discussing as voluntary patients, its a voluntary choice. Have some side effects and pay attention to your life, your hobbies, your work and try not to obsess over the side effects.....
>
>
> .... or choose not to take medication and with a serious depressive disorder, end up with rapid mood swings, retreating, and yes, I don't want to say it or trigger the though, but with the most serious cases, the ideation of suicide -- and even worse, death.
>
>
> I don't want to be on my combination "for life", but if I have to be it on an "indefinite" status, which I don't like either...
>
> ...the chances of really bad things are lessened if I choose to continue to work through task oriented goals to gain as much of my life back and be as much as on par with my peers...
>
> ...and hopefully gradually reduce my medication requirements.
>
>
> "Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a starter home. Choose dental insurance, leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose your future. But why would anyone want to do a thing like that?..." ....and eventually "...but I chose life." (Trainspotting)
>
> As Yogi Berra said, when you see a fork, take it. That's all I can say.
>It's a very delicate balancing act. the pros and cons of sides versus mood enhancement. Now rashes and dangerous side effects are one thing. However people often stop ad's because of anxiety,insomnia or other sides that often pass. I guess one has to make the decision and weigh the pros and cons. Is my life better with the mood enhancement but annoying sides or are the sides so annoying that they negate any positive attributes. Also some have a greater ability to put up with sides. I read a book that said neurotic depressives have a hard time dealing with sides and have a tendency to abandon their meds.
Now if one was told they would die unless they took their meds what would their decision be? depression can be a slow death so maybe that has to be taken into account before discontinuing their meds. It's not an easy decision.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 7, 2008, at 20:35:35
In reply to What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2008, at 11:55:41
Think you need to get out! Do something, see other people.
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2008, at 20:54:29
In reply to Re: What Does It mean When you just don't care anymore, posted by Zyprexa on June 7, 2008, at 20:35:35
Drove To Burlington The other day and a week ago was pretty near you. I like the Peaches n Cream outlet store for ebay. Love Phillipa
Posted by okydoky on June 7, 2008, at 23:03:13
In reply to Re: Medications and choices, posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 15:17:29
Interesting discussion. It takes into account only one modality to change or at the very least to initiate change, medications. Of course this is the medication site.
I have had discussions with my brother who is a Naturopathic Doctor. He does not believe in any medication at all even though in the quotes I am posting he refers to medication. It is his way of making a point, of convincing me of his views. He believes that it is each individuals "choice" how or whether to be active in their lives. This necessitates the belief of self determination regardless of ability. IF this is the case than how I feel and who I am is entirely my fault. IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT
I believe that for many with depression (not depressed because of life or anything to do with lifes circumstances) the mind is not able to make that choice and be an active participant in ones life and/or the healing of it. That ability has been limited by disease. Many times I believe only medication is able to change the chemistry enough in the brain so that small healing that takes place allows me to become active, to live. What he is describing to me is life itself, not depression or overcoming depression. What he describes was my life at times when I was not Depressed Perhaps dealing with the effects of years of depression but not actively depressed. I could still feel very depressed about things or life in general but without even thinking about it I actively made choices to try and change my life for the better. Sometimes I faltered but I just got up and dusted off and went on. I lived. Learned to cope, was able to practice many new skills and old ones
It is as though in depression we are determined, that is existentially there is no choice.
He is talking about gene expression because I had just sent him an article about it on one of the threads.
The hopeful thing is that new experiences and thinking and even changes in food (food as medicine) can have profound effects again on this very same brain and biochemisry. i.e. hope. One needs to significantly alter the interstitial fluid in the body, the fluid that comes from the blood and thereby bath the cells in a highly chemically altered fluid, which will then alter the internal cellular fluids, and hence gene expression. This can be done with medicines, foods, breathing, sleep, exercise, medicated baths, changes in thinking and meditation, and of course combinations of all of the above, and myriads of things that I have not mentioned or do not even know about. But they all amount to just one thing...Change. To get change, you need to create change, one way or another, with help or by yourself. The same thing every day generally gets you the same results every day. Meds are a change, but the whole world is awash in change possibilities as well. Breathe different and feel different.
As a doctor, I see a lot of depressed people. What I observe is that most people, depressed or not, are passive in their lives. I try to motivate them to be an active participant. Of course this takes a little more than just a change in attitude. Though this is the place to start. Takes also, determination and persistence and just as importantly learning of some skills, call them coping/social/interpersonal skills. It is a bit of trial and error learning. One of the skills you might call failure acceptance though another may call it humility; trying and failing miserably many times, but accepting and learning along the way.So as a naturopathic doctor, I find this is maybe my most important treatment modality...to teach active participation in life. It truly makes a difference. And I'm sure I have said enough.
My brother explained where I would be now if something changed in my brain perhaps, because of medication, perhaps something else, and allowed me to have a starting place to live and heal the damage that the depression had caused, to fail, to succeed to learn new skills and remember old ones
He describes in great detail aparently without knowng it our personal upbringing.
I do believe that depression is a cluster of symptoms so what helps one does not necessarily help another. To me medication is poison we put in our bodies. What we call side effects are just the effects the chemical is having on our bodies. They are the ones we would prefer not to have as apposed to the effect of alleviating our depression to some degree or whatever we are taking the medicine for.
This was much longer so I shortened it up. I think it still has some continuity.
oky
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