Posted by okydoky on June 7, 2008, at 23:03:13
In reply to Re: Medications and choices, posted by bulldog2 on June 7, 2008, at 15:17:29
Interesting discussion. It takes into account only one modality to change or at the very least to initiate change, medications. Of course this is the medication site.
I have had discussions with my brother who is a Naturopathic Doctor. He does not believe in any medication at all even though in the quotes I am posting he refers to medication. It is his way of making a point, of convincing me of his views. He believes that it is each individuals "choice" how or whether to be active in their lives. This necessitates the belief of self determination regardless of ability. IF this is the case than how I feel and who I am is entirely my fault. IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT, IT IS NOT MY FAULT
I believe that for many with depression (not depressed because of life or anything to do with lifes circumstances) the mind is not able to make that choice and be an active participant in ones life and/or the healing of it. That ability has been limited by disease. Many times I believe only medication is able to change the chemistry enough in the brain so that small healing that takes place allows me to become active, to live. What he is describing to me is life itself, not depression or overcoming depression. What he describes was my life at times when I was not Depressed Perhaps dealing with the effects of years of depression but not actively depressed. I could still feel very depressed about things or life in general but without even thinking about it I actively made choices to try and change my life for the better. Sometimes I faltered but I just got up and dusted off and went on. I lived. Learned to cope, was able to practice many new skills and old ones
It is as though in depression we are determined, that is existentially there is no choice.
He is talking about gene expression because I had just sent him an article about it on one of the threads.
The hopeful thing is that new experiences and thinking and even changes in food (food as medicine) can have profound effects again on this very same brain and biochemisry. i.e. hope. One needs to significantly alter the interstitial fluid in the body, the fluid that comes from the blood and thereby bath the cells in a highly chemically altered fluid, which will then alter the internal cellular fluids, and hence gene expression. This can be done with medicines, foods, breathing, sleep, exercise, medicated baths, changes in thinking and meditation, and of course combinations of all of the above, and myriads of things that I have not mentioned or do not even know about. But they all amount to just one thing...Change. To get change, you need to create change, one way or another, with help or by yourself. The same thing every day generally gets you the same results every day. Meds are a change, but the whole world is awash in change possibilities as well. Breathe different and feel different.
As a doctor, I see a lot of depressed people. What I observe is that most people, depressed or not, are passive in their lives. I try to motivate them to be an active participant. Of course this takes a little more than just a change in attitude. Though this is the place to start. Takes also, determination and persistence and just as importantly learning of some skills, call them coping/social/interpersonal skills. It is a bit of trial and error learning. One of the skills you might call failure acceptance though another may call it humility; trying and failing miserably many times, but accepting and learning along the way.So as a naturopathic doctor, I find this is maybe my most important treatment modality...to teach active participation in life. It truly makes a difference. And I'm sure I have said enough.
My brother explained where I would be now if something changed in my brain perhaps, because of medication, perhaps something else, and allowed me to have a starting place to live and heal the damage that the depression had caused, to fail, to succeed to learn new skills and remember old ones
He describes in great detail aparently without knowng it our personal upbringing.
I do believe that depression is a cluster of symptoms so what helps one does not necessarily help another. To me medication is poison we put in our bodies. What we call side effects are just the effects the chemical is having on our bodies. They are the ones we would prefer not to have as apposed to the effect of alleviating our depression to some degree or whatever we are taking the medicine for.
This was much longer so I shortened it up. I think it still has some continuity.
oky
poster:okydoky
thread:832871
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080606/msgs/833559.html