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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 10:33:54
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers, posted by Polarbear206 on December 14, 2007, at 9:29:25
Took lamictal only got to 50mg and trileptal l50mg and no side effects from either so give it a go. Bet they work for you. Good luck. Phillipa
Posted by Bob on December 14, 2007, at 14:04:04
In reply to I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 7:54:20
I too am outrageously sensitive to these medicines. Your comment about sleeping all day on anything more than 5mg of Lexapro brought back bad memories from Effexor, Paxil, Zoloft and others. I honestly reached a point - especially on Paxil, of sleeping 18-20 hours per day. Then I said enough is enough and got off it, withdrawl and all.
I am currently trying to get on Cymbalta and it is just about killing me. I had a compounding pharmacist make me 5mg capsules and I can't even tolerate that. After 4 or 5 days it was becoming unbearable. Now I'm breaking them open and counting the little pieces inside. It's still not good. Unbelievable, my sister was able to go on the Cymbalta almost without any difficulty and started right out on 30mg. What is wrong with me???
Posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 16:18:36
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by Bob on December 14, 2007, at 14:04:04
> I too am outrageously sensitive to these medicines. Your comment about sleeping all day on anything more than 5mg of Lexapro brought back bad memories from Effexor, Paxil, Zoloft and others. I honestly reached a point - especially on Paxil, of sleeping 18-20 hours per day. Then I said enough is enough and got off it, withdrawl and all.
>
> I am currently trying to get on Cymbalta and it is just about killing me. I had a compounding pharmacist make me 5mg capsules and I can't even tolerate that. After 4 or 5 days it was becoming unbearable. Now I'm breaking them open and counting the little pieces inside. It's still not good. Unbelievable, my sister was able to go on the Cymbalta almost without any difficulty and started right out on 30mg. What is wrong with me???
>
Yikes, I was thinking of going on Cymbalta but someone on this forum told me about the nasty side effects. I am also very med sensitive so I changed my mind about the Cymbalta. Lexapro supposedly has one of the fewest side effects from the SSRI group, and I have noticed that (I've also tried Paxil, Effexor, Prosac, etc etc etc and the side effects were hell), but the sleeping my life away isn't that great either.I think I'm going to the crisis unit tomorrow at the local hospital. I really want to get on a mood stabilizer, I think Lamictal sounds the best to me at this point. Definately want to get off the Lexapro, unless it starts working with a mood stabilizer!!!!
I have diagnosed myself (Dr. Cynthia in the house.. lol) with bipolar!!! These never ending mood swings...
Posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 16:20:36
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 10:33:54
Hi Phillipa, thanks for you input! I will give the Lamictal another shot. Were you taking Lamictal and Trileptal at the same time? How did/does it work for you?
Thanks =O
Posted by bleauberry on December 14, 2007, at 16:52:26
In reply to I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 7:54:20
Yeah, it does sound bipolar.
Could easily be food intolerances, since chemical sensitivity is evident. They go together. The symptoms match.
The liver processes things in two phases. The first is to break stuff down, the second to eliminate that broken down stuff. In sensitivities, first phase is too fast compared to the second phase, so that the second phase is overflooded and dumps stuff back in your blood. The body doesn't recognize the stuff, confuses the immmune system, and then you've got full blown chemical/food sensitivities. There are ways to manipulate the liver with certain supplements, to either slow down first phase or speed up second phase. Lots of people at mercury chelation forums who have had terrible medication/chemical/food sensitivities have almost completely gotten rid of the problem with a few well chosen supplements in their diet.
For bipolar the top choices are lithium, depakote, lamictal, zyprexa, with zyprexa probably being the fastest.
Posted by garyengelm on December 14, 2007, at 17:57:33
In reply to I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 7:54:20
Can you give me your email. I have some thoughts for ya.
Posted by garyengelm on December 14, 2007, at 18:36:11
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.., posted by garyengelm on December 14, 2007, at 17:57:33
Like PolarBear, I have recently been diagnosed with Bipolar II. Never in a million years did I ever think I had bipolar. I'm still not sure, but after a week on Lamictal, the depression has almost completely lifted and I'm smiling again, the crying spells, and irritability are gone. I'm just having worsening anxiety from the Lamictal on only 25mg. I'm just a week in, so I hope it goes away so that I can go up on the dose. In the meantime, I'm using Xanax to deal with the worsening Anxiety I've had all along. go to http://www.psycheducation.org and read up on Bipolar II. There is much overlap between anxiety/depression and Bipolar II. It's impossible for a Dr. to make the call. You have to try a mood stabilizer to find out. If you've failed antidepressants, there is a good chance you have it.
Hope that helps....Gary
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 19:38:06
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by Bob on December 14, 2007, at 14:04:04
Bob the first time I went on cymbalta no side effects at all and got to 60mg where I stayed for three months no improvement ditched it without a taper just to 30mg and then off. Second time I couldn't tolerate 30mg felt like my head would explode it was horrible. Chemistry changing? Nothing is wrong with you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 19:42:07
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers))))Phillipa, posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 16:20:36
No didn't take them at the same time. I couldn't afford to up the trileptal from l50mg no side effects so stopped it. Lamictal strange uncommon side effect at 50mg of so much saliva in mouth and constant spitting the pdoc took me off. Even tried it a seond time same thing. Phillipa
Posted by Quilter on December 15, 2007, at 0:27:59
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers))))Phillipa » oldschool305, posted by Phillipa on December 14, 2007, at 19:42:07
One word of caution- Lamictal is very expensive.
You might be better off trying lithium first. It is probably the least expensive of the mood stabilizers.Quilter
Posted by Racer on December 15, 2007, at 16:34:39
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. help, posted by oldschool305 on December 14, 2007, at 16:18:36
> > > I have diagnosed myself (Dr. Cynthia in the house.. lol) with bipolar!!! These never ending mood swings...
>Actually, what you're describing doesn't sound like bipolar to me. It sounds more like borderline PD. A lot of doctors seem to use this diagnosis as a way to say "patient I don't like dealing with," but it's actually a legitimate diagnosis, and there are a lot of treatments that can be very helpful. The best, of course, is therapy, but there are also a lot of medications that are very helpful. Risperdal comes up a lot, and a lot of people I know do well with it. If you look at BPD as a problem with emotional impulse control, it might help with finding medications that will be surprisingly effective.
As for taking your mother's medications, which it sounds as though you're doing, don't do that with Lamictal. For Lamictal, more than almost any other medication, you really do need to have a doctor's supervision as you titrate up. It's never a good idea to diagnose and prescribe to yourself, using someone else's medications, but in the case of Lamictal -- it can cause some pretty devastating side effects, and it's important to have a doctor's supervision. (I won't comment beyond saying that there are some very good reasons to have a doctor prescribe medications for you, rather than guessing on your own and taking something prescribed for another individual.)
I'm always afraid that people will take it wrong is I suggest BPD, but if you read some of what Marsha Linehan has written about it, it might give you a very different picture -- she's very compassionate about it, and her descriptions of the sorts of childhood interactions that could be part of creating it really increased my compassion for those who have it. (And actually, even if you don't have BPD, some of Linehan's DBT exercises can still be very helpful...)
Good luck.
Posted by Phillipa on December 15, 2007, at 18:23:19
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers))))Phillipa, posted by Quilter on December 15, 2007, at 0:27:59
Quilter thanks I was given them to up the effects of an ad. As I don't get tired on them at all. Didn't get anxiety with either lamictal or trileptal. I know the trileptal cost about $200 for l50mg for a month. The lamictal was using the sample packs from the pdoc. Maybe my medicaire supplemental insurance I have now covers it don't know. Phillipa
Posted by oldschool305 on December 15, 2007, at 21:15:26
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. » oldschool305, posted by Racer on December 15, 2007, at 16:34:39
Wow, thanks Racer. That was great input and believe me, I am googling BPD now because I've never read or heard much about it before.
When I was diagnosed with Panic/Anxiety disorder, I didn't say much to the doctor, I forgot most of my "symptoms" and just thought he could see right through me and know what my problem was. I was young, I know there are more issues. I have alcohol problems, I have a horrid childhood past, but I wont get into that (you can read about it on the psychology board somewhere), and my mom is schiztophrenic. However, I don't hear things... I don't see things... I don't believe things are REAL such as the underground mafia is following me, and watching me and screaming things out to me on the jobs (my poor mom believes this).
My closest friend is a Therapist, he doesn't like to give therapy to "friends" but he does help me a lot. However, I see him when I am feeling good. When I feel like death and can't function, I lay in bed without calling him for weeks and he has NO idea whats going on with me. And when we talk, he trys to give me advice but he is so far off with how I'm feeling, that it actually aggravates me. Therapy to me is not an option at this point, because it actually creates arguments. He is a great talker, ofcourse, therapists are trained for this kind of stuff, but he doesn't really know what's going on. He believes that I am bipolar, but I've never been diagnosed. I will read about the BPD now, but again... I was A-OK until a drug overdose I had in 2001. I was in Marching band, and every after school music program, full paid music scholarship, then on St. Patricks day 2001 I went out with a friend and did cocaine, way too much. I was never the same after that night, went into a 30 day program, and was 6 months in bed, shaking, losing my mind. Went on all types of meds including Risperdal but one of my docs took me off because of all the weight I was putting on. I also took it with Remeron so who knows. Risperdal worked really well for me so I might give that a try again, who knows!!!
My mom has trazodone, a sleeping med (well an anti depressant) but I also read it might help with anxiety, depression, etc. I decided to NOT give that a go.... I am thinking mood stabilizers. I know Lamictal has to be slowly increased, and I heard it's expensive so I don't know about that, I am dead broke right now.
I need to see a doc next week, before I start my new job. I am going to this local gov hospital, it's free..... except for the meds. I will bring up BPD, and Bipolar disorder. See what meds they suggest. I know I need to lay low on the alcohol too. I just took a XANAX XR with 4 beers. Ya see, I also have substance abuse problems, and then I fell like crap for the next 4 days, lay in bed, then quit all my jobs!!!!!!!
I get bored, very bored, very easily. I seek a "high", a "buzz" to find my comfort. but the after effects are not worth it (but i keep doing it and i really want to stop).
Anywho, thank you so much Racer, I will read about that now. And will post next week after I see a doc about my progress/diagnoses/etc.
=O
> > > > I have diagnosed myself (Dr. Cynthia in the house.. lol) with bipolar!!! These never ending mood swings...
> >
>
> Actually, what you're describing doesn't sound like bipolar to me. It sounds more like borderline PD. A lot of doctors seem to use this diagnosis as a way to say "patient I don't like dealing with," but it's actually a legitimate diagnosis, and there are a lot of treatments that can be very helpful. The best, of course, is therapy, but there are also a lot of medications that are very helpful. Risperdal comes up a lot, and a lot of people I know do well with it. If you look at BPD as a problem with emotional impulse control, it might help with finding medications that will be surprisingly effective.
>
> As for taking your mother's medications, which it sounds as though you're doing, don't do that with Lamictal. For Lamictal, more than almost any other medication, you really do need to have a doctor's supervision as you titrate up. It's never a good idea to diagnose and prescribe to yourself, using someone else's medications, but in the case of Lamictal -- it can cause some pretty devastating side effects, and it's important to have a doctor's supervision. (I won't comment beyond saying that there are some very good reasons to have a doctor prescribe medications for you, rather than guessing on your own and taking something prescribed for another individual.)
>
> I'm always afraid that people will take it wrong is I suggest BPD, but if you read some of what Marsha Linehan has written about it, it might give you a very different picture -- she's very compassionate about it, and her descriptions of the sorts of childhood interactions that could be part of creating it really increased my compassion for those who have it. (And actually, even if you don't have BPD, some of Linehan's DBT exercises can still be very helpful...)
>
> Good luck.
Posted by Racer on December 15, 2007, at 22:22:03
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.., posted by oldschool305 on December 15, 2007, at 21:15:26
> I have alcohol problems, I have a horrid childhood past, but I wont get into that (you can read about it on the psychology board somewhere), and my mom is schiztophrenic.
>
> I just took a XANAX XR with 4 beers. Ya see, I also have substance abuse problems, and then I fell like crap for the next 4 days, lay in bed, then quit all my jobs!!!!!!!
>
> I get bored, very bored, very easily. I seek a "high", a "buzz" to find my comfort. but the after effects are not worth it (but i keep doing it and i really want to stop).All that sounds a lot more like Borderline than Bipolar. It's worth looking into, if it helps you find a more effective treatment.
>
> Anywho, thank you so much Racer, I will read about that now. And will post next week after I see a doc about my progress/diagnoses/etc.
>Here are a few links I've found:
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.html
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/cause.htm
http://www.priory.com/dbt.htm
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/myths.htmI hope those help you get a start. Good luck.
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 23:34:32
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.. » oldschool305, posted by Racer on December 15, 2007, at 22:22:03
Sounds like it could be bipolar. You may want to start with a mood stabilizer with proven efficacy. You would probably want to try either lithium, depakote, or tegretol which should all be affordable.
Other anticonvulsants have little proven efficacy in bipolar, and I would only try them after others have failed.
Posted by oldschool305 on December 17, 2007, at 16:53:56
In reply to Re: I have severe rage/anger/homicidal thoughts.., posted by linkadge on December 15, 2007, at 23:34:32
thanks everyone for the suggestions on meds. I am checking myself into the local hospital here, voluntarily. My mother called the police on my yesterday because she is sick of seeing me depressed, miserable, unable to function, lying in bed for weeks at a time. She they gave me 3 options. Go to local hospital voluntarily, un-voluntarily, or move out by next Sunday.
I chose option one, I have no insurance and they said they will accept me anyways. That's good, I will tell them I think I am bipolar or BPD. I need a better antidepressant (Lexapro wasn't doing it), and a mood stabilizer@!!!! I start my new job Jan. 7th and I need to get stabilized before then. I am sick of quiiting all my jobs because of my non-predicting mood swings/anger outbursts, etc.
I'll only be in the hospital for a couple of days to a week, I will post back here and let ya'll know how I'm doing.
Thanks all. Have a good week.
Posted by Bob on December 17, 2007, at 17:08:18
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient, posted by oldschool305 on December 17, 2007, at 16:53:56
> thanks everyone for the suggestions on meds. I am checking myself into the local hospital here, voluntarily. My mother called the police on my yesterday because she is sick of seeing me depressed, miserable, unable to function, lying in bed for weeks at a time. She they gave me 3 options. Go to local hospital voluntarily, un-voluntarily, or move out by next Sunday.
>
> I chose option one, I have no insurance and they said they will accept me anyways. That's good, I will tell them I think I am bipolar or BPD. I need a better antidepressant (Lexapro wasn't doing it), and a mood stabilizer@!!!! I start my new job Jan. 7th and I need to get stabilized before then. I am sick of quiiting all my jobs because of my non-predicting mood swings/anger outbursts, etc.
>
> I'll only be in the hospital for a couple of days to a week, I will post back here and let ya'll know how I'm doing.
>
> Thanks all. Have a good week.
Well, I'm with you in spirit. I've often thought about doing something like that, but I was under the impression that the hospital won't just admit you unless you're actively suicidal. At least that's what I've been told, that the only way I could get in was if I told them I was ready to commit suicide.Are you in the U.S.?
Posted by oldschool305 on December 19, 2007, at 0:19:11
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient » oldschool305, posted by Bob on December 17, 2007, at 17:08:18
Hi bob.. Well, they didn't admit me since I was not in crisis mode at the time, as many others were!! It is a government hospital, and they usually admit anyone even if you are not suicidal. It's free, and they have a detox unit, etc. I am in the U.S. (Florida). Anyways, they had no beds abailable and the visit didn't go too well, they wrote me a prescription for Wellbutrin after I told the psych doc several times that I've tried Wellbutrin before and it did NOTHINGGGG. I told her so many times, I have mood swings from HELL, I need a MOOD STABILIZER!!!!!!!
She obviously wasn't listening. I have all the bipolar II symptoms, to the TEE. So, this is why I end up self medicating myself. I have no insurance, I have access to meds (samples). I will continue taking the lexapro at night, and add a mood stabilizer myself. I am thinking either Lamictal or Abilify. (I have tons of Abilify so I hope I read something good about it... so far it's nothing but negative responses).
>
> Well, I'm with you in spirit. I've often thought about doing something like that, but I was under the impression that the hospital won't just admit you unless you're actively suicidal. At least that's what I've been told, that the only way I could get in was if I told them I was ready to commit suicide.
>
> Are you in the U.S.?
>
>
Posted by Bob on December 19, 2007, at 10:22:28
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient, posted by oldschool305 on December 19, 2007, at 0:19:11
> Hi bob.. Well, they didn't admit me since I was not in crisis mode at the time, as many others were!! It is a government hospital, and they usually admit anyone even if you are not suicidal. It's free, and they have a detox unit, etc. I am in the U.S. (Florida). Anyways, they had no beds abailable and the visit didn't go too well, they wrote me a prescription for Wellbutrin after I told the psych doc several times that I've tried Wellbutrin before and it did NOTHINGGGG. I told her so many times, I have mood swings from HELL, I need a MOOD STABILIZER!!!!!!!
>
> She obviously wasn't listening. I have all the bipolar II symptoms, to the TEE. So, this is why I end up self medicating myself. I have no insurance, I have access to meds (samples). I will continue taking the lexapro at night, and add a mood stabilizer myself. I am thinking either Lamictal or Abilify. (I have tons of Abilify so I hope I read something good about it... so far it's nothing but negative responses).
>
>Man, that really sucks. I don't know how people who are really struggling are supposed to find help. What are we supposed to do?
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2007, at 19:54:10
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient » oldschool305, posted by Bob on December 19, 2007, at 10:22:28
North Carolina 72 hours of hospital and then it's the state one horrible place unless you're the elite rich and can afford to pay for a private exclusive hospital. But why can't you go to a free clinic or one with a sliding scale. The hospital should have provided you with a list of available resources. Phillipa
Posted by metalblade on December 25, 2007, at 1:36:22
In reply to Re: Mood Stabilizers))))Phillipa, posted by Quilter on December 15, 2007, at 0:27:59
Hi Oldschool, let me offer you a little advice. If you are trying to get help from a hospital, you have to tell them that you are suicidal or they will not admit you. I went to get help at one for panic attracts I was having. It beats waiting 3 months for a doctor’s appointment.
You defiantly sound bipolar 2 to me. I use to cycle on a weekly basis similar to you. Also, my anger, nerves, and social phobia would get worse on the depressed days. The things your taking like xanax will only make you depressed and the anti-depressants can make you manic or give you that "buzz" that your looking for, but only for a while. Taking a mood stabilizer with them will help with that.
You mentioned that you have tried lamictal. Let me caution you about trying it again. Lamictal is more likely to cause an allergic reaction the second time you try it. If you do take it again, don’t do it without a doctor ready to give you predisone if you need it. Lamictal works good, but it’s dangerous stuff.
I take lithium for my depression, and since I started taking it about 5 years ago, I don’t need to drink anymore. I still have an anger problem but I learned a little trick that gets rid of that. There is an amino acid in eggs called Choline. If you only take 50mg of Choline, which will require you to open the capsule and take only part of it, your anger will go away. I know that sounds heard to believe, but I found a study on the Internet where this was tried on people in a study; it worked for them and it works for me. If you take too much of the choline then it will unfortunately make you depressed. So, make a trip to GNC or some place and give it a try.
Posted by nolegirl23 on December 25, 2007, at 19:07:14
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient, posted by oldschool305 on December 19, 2007, at 0:19:11
Hi there - I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with your attempt at going inpatient. I noticed that you said that you are in Florida? I am also in Florida and am going through the same thing you are. I think I need to go inpatient.. my depression is getting the better of me, especially on Christmas. Where in Florida are you? I'm in Bradenton (south of Tampa).
Good luck,
~S~
Posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 19:24:46
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient, posted by nolegirl23 on December 25, 2007, at 19:07:14
No way we looked at condos there three years ago was going to move there so husband could continue custom painting at Donzi. Only condo we could find new had a waiting list so long still haven't heard from them and they were the cheapest nice ones we could find. About $260,000. Wonder if prices down now since Florida crashed according to my Daughter who lives on east side? Phillipa
Posted by oldschool305 on December 26, 2007, at 0:08:44
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient » nolegirl23, posted by Phillipa on December 25, 2007, at 19:24:46
I live in Miami Beach, FL. I lived in Winter Haven for awhile, it was so darn boring hehe.
Thanks for the info about Choline. I will read about that.
So far, I am still on 12.5mg of Lamictal, 5mg of Lexapro, and 50mg Vistoril for sleep. I have been doing great the past week or so, no severe mood swings. But I am having a horrible time sleeping, I can't fall asleep until 4-5am which is NOT good!! I start a new job in less than 2 weeks which requires me to be up and out of the house at 8am. If I don't get atleast 7 hours of sleep, I feel like dying! I am not even exxagerating. I feel so horrible, my mind feels like depersonalization, I'm depressed, weak, depressed. Feel like I was out all night drinking. So, I hope this Vistoril helps with sleep. Trazodone, in my opinion, STINKS!!!! Does not even get me the bit least tired. Restoril, hahaha, same thing!!! Tonight is my first night taking 50mg of Vistoril so we'll see.
Hope you all are having a nice Christmas. I live alone with my mother, we didn't really celebrate this year... no tree or anything. That's kind of depressing but this past year has been so rough, we weren't really in the holiday spirit.
Good night (hopefully soon).
--CYN
Posted by KathrynLex on December 28, 2007, at 17:03:35
In reply to Re: I've decided to go inpatient, posted by oldschool305 on December 26, 2007, at 0:08:44
Lately I've been taking Klonopin to help me sleep. Another one to look in to is Xanax...that one can definitely help you get several hours of sleep. Good luck.
KL
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