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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 16:10:57
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » tecknohed, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 15:26:50
I looked up L-methylfolate;
I found about 6 articles on PubMed,
one by a well-recognized researcher,
Dr. Stahl. It seems that its efficacy
as found in clinical trials comparing
schizophrenics, depressives against controls,
is based on the theory that folate acid
may be lower in such. And so, this addition
is an enhancement of an already existing
antidepressant. The vitamin B12 is related.
This sounds like a new direction in psychiatry.
That's all i can say.I hope i got that right.
Interesting variation in countries' origin
of research: Britain, US, and Greece.It is approved by the FDA as a supplement to
enhance ADs.Any feedback, would be appreciated. It sounds
fishy to me.
Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 17:53:37
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » Squiggles, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 16:10:57
Squiggles it's definietly a med to boost antidepressants nothing to do with psychology. I have the info . Trying to figure out how to post it without a confidentiality problem.Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on October 23, 2007, at 18:32:17
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » tecknohed, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 15:26:50
> Well, i don't know.... i will have to
> look up "deplin". Lithium is not a micronutrient;
> though it is found in the body in extremely tiny
> amounts.
>
> SquigglesThink you just contradicted yourself.
:)
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 18:40:55
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » Squiggles, posted by tecknohed on October 23, 2007, at 18:32:17
Squiggles and everyone the link I said I would post. Phillipa
http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1267
Posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 18:48:05
In reply to Re: Here's the Link!, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 18:40:55
> Squiggles and everyone the link I said I would post. Phillipa
>
>
> http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1267Well, it can't hurt to try; one advantage would be
that you may be able to lower the dose of a very toxic AD.I am a bit concerned about the massive pharmaceutical banquet, and that it is
only checked by the FDA and approved, not
examined. I may be wrong about that.
There's not much written on it except for the
group working on this new direction.Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 19:28:47
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 18:48:05
More options now for teatment resistant depression has to be a good thing. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 10:33:17
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 19:28:47
Very important . Asked to pass along the info that deplin is a drug not a supplement. Phillipa
Deplin is a DRUG and not a nutrient.
It is not found in natural foodstuffs. Folic acid is a nutrient and is the
natural form of folate available to the body in its diet. Folic acid must
be transformed into L-methylfolate in the liver and muscle tissue
before it can penetrate the brain readily and participate in chemical
there.
Posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2007, at 10:48:45
In reply to Re: Here's the Link!, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 10:33:17
> Very important . Asked to pass along the info that deplin is a drug not a supplement. Phillipa
>
>
> Deplin is a DRUG and not a nutrient.
>
> It is not found in natural foodstuffs. Folic acid is a nutrient and is the
> natural form of folate available to the body in its diet. Folic acid must
> be transformed into L-methylfolate in the liver and muscle tissue
> before it can penetrate the brain readily and participate in chemical
> there.
I thought it did not cross the blood-brain barrier; anyway, do you think it's related at
all to what Dr. Preskorn refers to as certain
enzymes which change the metabolism of some
SSRIs? I think that is how he explained the
adverse reaction to Serzone (liver metabolism)
of some people and not others.Squiggles
Posted by tecknohed on October 24, 2007, at 11:55:34
In reply to Re: Here's the Link!, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 10:33:17
> Very important . Asked to pass along the info that deplin is a drug not a supplement. Phillipa
>
>
> Deplin is a DRUG and not a nutrient.
>
> It is not found in natural foodstuffs. Folic acid is a nutrient and is the
> natural form of folate available to the body in its diet. Folic acid must
> be transformed into L-methylfolate in the liver and muscle tissue
> before it can penetrate the brain readily and participate in chemical
> there.Not sure about it NOT being a nutrient. Its still Folate wich has been 'activated', which is what happens naurally in the body anyway. You wouldn't call serotonin a drug, which is made from tryptophan, a naturally occuring nutrient, would you?
Don't worry though, I'm NOT disagreeing with YOU, just with whoever asked you to pass the info on. And its just an oppinion, not an argument.
:)teck
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 12:37:34
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on October 24, 2007, at 11:55:34
Tech I know no argument at all. Now it's up to the pass along person to pick it up. I should clarify that it is not a blocked person just someone I know. Love Jan
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 19:05:26
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2007, at 10:48:45
Squiggles I have no idea someone sent me the info that is very smart. Phillipa
Posted by KayeBaby on October 24, 2007, at 22:11:41
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » Squiggles, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2007, at 17:53:37
I can confirm that my depression is gone since I started it. It coincided with my 6th week on 9mg Emsam so it could be coincidental but My energy levels have improved remarkably and I have been on EMSAM at some level since early April and have never gotten that effect from it.
I felt the boost in energy and motivation from the first day.
Kaye
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 22:18:52
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!!, posted by KayeBaby on October 24, 2007, at 22:11:41
Kaye is it expensive? May ask for it next time see my pdoc. What are the side effects? Phillipa
Posted by tecknohed on October 25, 2007, at 4:20:48
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!!, posted by KayeBaby on October 24, 2007, at 22:11:41
> I can confirm that my depression is gone since I started it. It coincided with my 6th week on 9mg Emsam so it could be coincidental but My energy levels have improved remarkably and I have been on EMSAM at some level since early April and have never gotten that effect from it.
>
> I felt the boost in energy and motivation from the first day.
>
> KayeThats great! I thought there must be something to it! Why else would 'Deplin' be prescription only?
Buy the way, are you actually taking brand name 'Deplin' or are you taking another brand/non-branded form of L-methylfolate (ie.Metafolin)? And what dose are you on?Thanx.
Posted by KayeBaby on October 26, 2007, at 0:11:03
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » KayeBaby, posted by tecknohed on October 25, 2007, at 4:20:48
I started off with Deplin for about two weeks. It has a whopping 7.5mg od l-methylfolate.
I am now taking 3.2 mg of Metafolin by Source Naturals is also l-methylfolate.
I had a little bit of trouble finding it but it was only 10 bucks for a bottle of 60 800mcg. I got two to hold me over till my insurance kicks in in November.
Kaye
Posted by Zyprexa on October 26, 2007, at 14:55:59
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!!, posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 10:13:58
My doctor prescribed it for me, to raise my folate and lower homocysine. She said it was also an anti-depressant. I never took it because no one sold it and was not covered by insurance, besided B-vitamins are cheep, like folic acid, so I'm trying that first.
Posted by Ron Hill on October 26, 2007, at 20:38:40
In reply to Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!!!!!!, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2007, at 23:33:28
Note: I posted this to a thread above, but it looks like Dr Bob is (or was) redirecting the thread to PB-Alt. At any rate, I will repost it here in case it disappears above:
------
Kaye,I've been taking Deplin (L-methylfolate) for the past five days and, so far I am enjoying a remarkable benefit in the tx of my bipolar depressive phase. It has completely eliminated my depression.
I am currently taking 15 mg/day.
Will it last? Time will tell. But in the meantime, I'm enjoying life without depression.
What is your response to Deplin?
For those reading this post, here is the URL for the Deplin home page:
http://www.deplin.com/
Click through all the links.-- Ron
Bipolar II with ultra rapid cycling (15 day cycle), and mild Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
875 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
15 mg/day Deplin
Posted by Ron Hill on October 26, 2007, at 20:57:12
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!! » KayeBaby, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2007, at 22:18:52
Jan,
> Kaye is it expensive?
My pharmacy charges my insurance company $54 for thirty 7.5 mg tablets of Deplin. So, it is very inexpensive, compared to other meds. For example, my insurance company pays more than $1,000 per month for my other four meds.
-- Ron
Bipolar II with ultra rapid cycling (15 day cycle), and mild Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
875 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
15 mg/day Deplin
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2007, at 21:27:42
In reply to Cost of Deplin » Phillipa, posted by Ron Hill on October 26, 2007, at 20:57:12
Ron do you know if it will also boost other antidepressants? Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on October 26, 2007, at 21:50:49
In reply to Re: Now Considered a Prescription Med Good News!!!, posted by KayeBaby on October 24, 2007, at 22:11:41
Kaye/Ron and others.
Keep posting your experiences on Deplin.
I have TRD and need to knowif this is something that might help me. I just told my pdoc about it today and he thinks it may be worth trying.
Thanks for your feedback on this.
Stargazer
Posted by Ron Hill on October 26, 2007, at 22:16:44
In reply to Re: Cost of Deplin » Ron Hill, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2007, at 21:27:42
> Ron do you know if it will also boost other antidepressants? Love Phillipa
Yes. It is used for pts that do not fully respond to the antidepressant(s) the pt has on board.
Or maybe you mean; Will it work for antidepressants other than Nardil? If so, the answer is still yes.
However, Deplin is not going to be beneficial to everyone 'cause, as you know, we are all different.
-- Ron
Bipolar II with ultra rapid cycling (15 day cycle), and mild Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
875 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
15 mg/day Deplin
Posted by Ron Hill on October 26, 2007, at 23:23:34
In reply to Keep posting successes on deplin or methylfolate, posted by stargazer2 on October 26, 2007, at 21:50:49
Star,
> I have TRD and need to knowif this is something that might help me. I just told my pdoc about it today and he thinks it may be worth trying.I'd say, give it a try. L-methylfolate is endogenous in your brain already. Deplin just raises the level of L-methylfolate substantially. Side effects are rare, but Deplin can cause insomnia, irritability and a few other things. If it doesn't work for you, simply discontinue it.
I find that 7.5 mg/day is not enough for me. I take 7.5 mg first thing in the morning with the rest of my meds. I can feel the Deplin working about 15 minutes after taking it. However, it begins to wane after about six hours. So, I take another 7.5 mg dose about six hours after taking the morning dose.
The dose-response curve for the plasma level of 6(S)-MTHF (Deplin) verses time is presented at the bottom of this web page:
http://www.deplin.com/HealthcareProfessionals,DeplinPlease notice that at the six hour mark, the plasma level of Deplin is only about a fourth of what it is at the peak. My hunch is that this is why I need a second dose at about the six hour mark.
For those interested, here is the document from which this dose-response curve was originally taken: http://www.nature.com/bjp/journal/v141/n5/pdf/0705446a.pdf
Stargazer, remember that I have only been taking Deplin for five days. And, although I am getting absolutely excellent results so far, it is way too early to know if the benefits will last. Time will tell.
Research followed by trial-and-error is the name of the game when it comes to finding the p-meds that work the best for each particular patient.
-- Ron
Bipolar II with ultra rapid cycling (15 day cycle), and mild Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)
600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
875 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil
15 mg/day Deplin
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 27, 2007, at 19:36:18
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Phillipa, posted by Squiggles on October 24, 2007, at 10:48:45
> > Very important . Asked to pass along the info that deplin is a drug not a supplement. Phillipa
> >
> >
> > Deplin is a DRUG and not a nutrient.
> >
> > It is not found in natural foodstuffs. Folic acid is a nutrient and is the
> > natural form of folate available to the body in its diet. Folic acid must
> > be transformed into L-methylfolate in the liver and muscle tissue
> > before it can penetrate the brain readily and participate in chemical
> > there.
>
>
> I thought it did not cross the blood-brain barrier; anyway, do you think it's related at
> all to what Dr. Preskorn refers to as certain
> enzymes which change the metabolism of some
> SSRIs? I think that is how he explained the
> adverse reaction to Serzone (liver metabolism)
> of some people and not others.
>
> SquigglesI'm a little baffled by what you're asking. The liver enzymes (cytochrome P450) *are* the metabolic processors. There is substantial inter-individual variability in the processing capacity of the various enzymes.
Deplin (L-methylfolate) is an enzyme cofactor. It is consumed during the synthesis of the major neurotransmitters. Thus, the supply of neurotransmitters is dependent on L-methylfolate availability.
Some drugs interfere with the multi-step process by which dietary folate is converted/activated to the L-methylfolate form (e.g. Lamictal/lamotrigine). Some people are genetically weak in this transformative process, also, predisposing to artery disease, depression, etc.
Folate supplements have long been known to improve antidepressant responsiveness. I just think it's sad that this bioactive folate derivative has been "patented", and access to it is thereby restricted.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2007, at 21:51:25
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on October 27, 2007, at 19:36:18
Larry but it means that insurance will cover it and your doc will monitor you. I think it's a good thing. As too many people take megadoses of vitamins and don't know lets say that C and B's are eliminated if there is excess hence really yellow uring. But others should not be taken in access. Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 28, 2007, at 8:48:51
In reply to Re: Here's the Link! » Larry Hoover, posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2007, at 21:51:25
> Larry but it means that insurance will cover it and your doc will monitor you. I think it's a good thing.
Instead of the product being available for under $10, it now costs about $50. It needs no direct monitoring. If you're depressed, you should be monitored in any case. The problem is, folate is not commonly monitored in the first place, even in depression, despite massive evidence of deficient folate metabolism in depressives.
> As too many people take megadoses of vitamins and don't know lets say that C and B's are eliminated if there is excess hence really yellow uring.
It's not true that they're eliminated in excess. The kidneys aren't that smart. The water-soluble nutrients are simply eliminated in urine, period. What most people don't consider is that prior to being dumped in urine, the nutrients *must* have been present in the blood. But only if the nutrients are in the blood can the tissues and organs obtain their requirements.
> But others should not be taken in access. Phillipa
Says who? As a treatment, doses above the RDA are required. For maintenance, even the RDA is insufficient for many people. The definition of RDA is such that 5% of the normal healthy population will show overt symptoms of deficiency, at the RDA. That totally ignores the issue of the requirement for those not normal and healthy.
Vitamin toxicosis is a truly rare occurrence. The appearance of risk has been grossly exaggerated, while truly risky OTC drugs get ignored. It's estimated that 20,000 Americans will die this year from GI bleeds caused by NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs). Why the dichotomy? Bias. Plain and simple.
Lar
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