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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 5:15:25
I reposted this here from the psych board cause this one's so much more busy.
look, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I fully realize that many have internalized the idea that anyone who has a drinking problem needs AA/complete abstinence, and anything less will result in "rock bottom" and they have to find that out for themself. ultimately everyone has to figure these things out for themselves. So: I'm interested in hearing from people who have learned to control their drinking w/o having to quit or resort to AA. If you are an AA die-hard, I appreciate your comments also, but you are preaching to the wrong audience. I'm not there yet. In way of background, I had my drinking down to a really manageable level several years ago, to where I was really only drinking on the weekends, when I was on wellbutrin. long story short, lost my insurance, got priced out of meds, relapsed into depression, can't afford it now, etc. american dream, yada yada. my drinking hovers between manageable to problematic, never bad enough to really screw things up unfixable like, just enought to make me want to change. need to get a handle on it. really just need a substitute, really. used to use weed intermittently as a substitute, but not really feasible now, plus weed anymore is even more of a problem for me than alcohol is once i get started back onto it. wouldn't be if i could buy in small amounts, like dimes or something. can't. any advice appreciated (and sorry if any AA members are offended : ) don't mean to be abrasive, just very distrustful, plus other issues, like i'm an atheist and don't think a program that requires you to recognize a higher power could possibly work for me. plus not ready to quit drinking.) thanks for all responses.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 9:31:40
In reply to legal substitute for acohol????, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 5:15:25
I responded to your post on the Substance board:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20070626/msgs/784289.html
There ARE alternatives to AA out there!
ClearSkies
Posted by rjlockhart on September 21, 2007, at 13:26:22
In reply to Re: legal substitute for acohol????, posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 9:31:40
hey! well sometime in my past i have been in a NA meets before.
But you know i've heard what doctors prescribe for alcohol with drawl, is belive lorazepam.
But im sorry, life can just really make you just want to make things go away.
Kava Kava is good recipe for relaxation.
Posted by back4abit on September 21, 2007, at 20:47:05
In reply to legal substitute for acohol????, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 5:15:25
In italy,the drug alcover,which was you got it pure pharm grade GHB was a prescription drug for aclholol withdrawal.
The other one was gamma oh in germany,again pharm pure ghb used as a secondary anesthic aid.
Google images for alcover and youll see the product,as well as gamm oh.
Upon xyrems arrival,ghb pharm grade for sleep,the u.s presented a mass media campaign forcing italys and germanys ghb off the marker making xyrem not the first but 3rd prescription version of ghb,now the only single source of pure ghb in the world.
For aclholol withdrawal alcover used ghv in very small doses of 0.5 mg opposed to xyrems sleep dose of 6 - 8 grams.
Posted by cactus on September 21, 2007, at 22:50:53
In reply to Re: legal substitute for acohol????, posted by back4abit on September 21, 2007, at 20:47:05
If you're not ready to give up then you are the only person that can help yourself. I have been sober for 150+ days now and I used valium. I went to AA for 2 months but it gave me the sh*ts so I haven't been in the last 3 months and I still haven't picked up a drink. My pdoc has put me on Zoloft and clonazepam and I'm doing fine. I know a lot of AA people out there would scoff at that but one of the first things they say is that,"if something is working for you then don't change it". So I don't plan on changing a thing at this point in time. I have to admit though 2 months of AA gave me some excellent coping skills, take what you need and leave the rest. I wish you all the best. I'm agnostic but they don't really preach the god factor in Australia, it's just a word
Posted by Dragon Black on September 22, 2007, at 0:23:37
In reply to Re: legal substitute for acohol????, posted by ClearSkies on September 21, 2007, at 9:31:40
hi, i responded to your post super thoroughly but it didn't show up... : (
I'll repost it tomorrow. thanks for your reply.
> I responded to your post on the Substance board:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20070626/msgs/784289.html
>
> There ARE alternatives to AA out there!
>
> ClearSkies
Posted by Dragon Black on September 22, 2007, at 0:25:17
In reply to Re: legal substitute for acohol????, posted by rjlockhart on September 21, 2007, at 13:26:22
thanks for your reply. i'm going to wait to respond until i'm sober...(insert crazy emoticon)...
> hey! well sometime in my past i have been in a NA meets before.
>
> But you know i've heard what doctors prescribe for alcohol with drawl, is belive lorazepam.
>
> But im sorry, life can just really make you just want to make things go away.
>
> Kava Kava is good recipe for relaxation.
Posted by blueboy on September 24, 2007, at 15:55:02
In reply to legal substitute for acohol????, posted by Dragon Black on September 21, 2007, at 5:15:25
I went to AA and did other stuff for like 15 or 20 years, off and on. At one point I got so I'd have one or two beers every night and not even want any more. Then I fell off the edge and I had to have 1-2 pints of hard stuff every day. I started showing signs of liver and brain damage, cuts and bruises from falling down, shaking hands every morning. I went back to AA and I've been sober for about 3 1/2 years now.
IMO, you can't substitute another chemical for booze. You have to figure out how to cope with the addictive personality problem. It is such a huge blessing to be sober, I wake up every morning and thank God. Even with my depression and anxiety, I have this basic happiness that comes from sobriety and the lessons I learned getting sober.
I don't think I know everything about anything, including booze. I do know that the woman who started the "controlled drinking" AA-alternative society killed someone while driving drunk. I know everything else failed for me, and I know what AA gave to me is something I enjoy the hell out of and appreciate, every single day of my life.
Personally, I'd be dead now if it wasn't for that organization and it wouldn't have been a pretty death. I wish it had stuck 15 years earlier so I had back some of my health and money it cost me, but at least I didn't ever commit a felony.
Best of luck to you buddy. I'm sorry, I know you didn't want another AA story, LOL, but I just felt like I had to tell you what happened to me.
Posted by Dragon Black on September 25, 2007, at 13:39:05
In reply to Re: legal substitute for acohol????, posted by blueboy on September 24, 2007, at 15:55:02
I hear ya, thanks for sharing. Maybe I'll come to that point but for now I'm still set on trying to learn to control it. My feeling is, I have to get a handle on everything else that's wrong with me, my drinking will take care of itself. for example, when i'm not depressed, i exercise pretty regularly and quickly become obsessed with it. in the past i've basically been able to use exercise as a substitute, in part b/c it is so incompatible with heavy drinking, but also because i hate the calories in alcohol more than anything. plus if i can get back into morning cardio, i basically can't have more than a couple of beers at night, which i think is healthy within moderation. so i've been asking myself, what exactly am i doing when i drink? stimulating the release of GABA and serotonin, right? so i'm trying some l-theanine and GABA at night to try to address some of my anxiety and help me get so sleep without needing more than a drink or two. i've also found that melatonin works wonders as a substitute b/c i get too tired to stay up and drink, plus i can fall asleep. problem is, it makes it harder to wake up. not sure what to do about that yet. thanks again.
> I went to AA and did other stuff for like 15 or 20 years, off and on. At one point I got so I'd have one or two beers every night and not even want any more. Then I fell off the edge and I had to have 1-2 pints of hard stuff every day. I started showing signs of liver and brain damage, cuts and bruises from falling down, shaking hands every morning. I went back to AA and I've been sober for about 3 1/2 years now.
>
> IMO, you can't substitute another chemical for booze. You have to figure out how to cope with the addictive personality problem. It is such a huge blessing to be sober, I wake up every morning and thank God. Even with my depression and anxiety, I have this basic happiness that comes from sobriety and the lessons I learned getting sober.
>
> I don't think I know everything about anything, including booze. I do know that the woman who started the "controlled drinking" AA-alternative society killed someone while driving drunk. I know everything else failed for me, and I know what AA gave to me is something I enjoy the hell out of and appreciate, every single day of my life.
>
> Personally, I'd be dead now if it wasn't for that organization and it wouldn't have been a pretty death. I wish it had stuck 15 years earlier so I had back some of my health and money it cost me, but at least I didn't ever commit a felony.
>
> Best of luck to you buddy. I'm sorry, I know you didn't want another AA story, LOL, but I just felt like I had to tell you what happened to me.
This is the end of the thread.
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