Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 767860

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by Shaner on July 5, 2007, at 12:57:06

In the last month I've been taking Parnate and had some success at first with 10-20mg, followed by going downhill as I increased the dose to 40mg. My fatigue and anxiety actually increased. Now back down to 20mg for the last few days I feel somewhat better. This has often been the pattern for me with other meds before. Should I be satisfied with a partial success or try Nardil? It sounds like Nardil is usually better for anxiety and social anxiety, which sounds appealing to me. I thought Parnate would be better since it's often more stimulating and fatigue and lack of motivation are a major part of my problem. But I haven't had any miracles in that area yet. For those of you who have read these sites often, would you say you've noticed many who have a much better success with Nardil after a partial success with Parnate?

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by missjulie on July 5, 2007, at 14:06:28

In reply to Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by Shaner on July 5, 2007, at 12:57:06

Can't exactly answer your question about whether people do better on Nardil after parnate... but I am in same boat as you... about one month on Parnate with very limited response... lots of side efx no relief of depressive symptoms. It certainly is not energizing as I too had hoped. I'm going to stick with it awhile longer because someone helpful here advised they got a great effect w/ parnate after one full month. I stayed away from nardil because I'd read about so many people who say Nardil is no longer effective since they changed the formula in 2003 plus weight gain. That being said if nothing improves on Parnate -- after fair trials on every reasonable dose -- I AM going to try switching to Nardil... why not... some people love it... esp. for SA which isn't my problem, but... going to give both MAIOs a fair trial before giving up on them. They're pretty much my last shot, and it can't hurt. That's my 2 cents. Do post and again let me know if you switch how it goes.

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by Justherself54 on July 5, 2007, at 14:24:23

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by missjulie on July 5, 2007, at 14:06:28

I've been on Parnate for a little over a month and it's been close to 10 days that I increased the dose to 20 mg. I was very bothered by the fatigue and was beginning to feel it wasn't going to work but lo and behold, today I have energy, did some fairly heavy yardwork and even went for a walk..so that's encouraging for me..

It sounds like you went up in dosage very quickly..do you think it might help to stay at the 20 mg for awhile and let your system get used to it before upping the dosage..maybe it was too much too soon..

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by Shaner on July 5, 2007, at 15:09:52

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by Justherself54 on July 5, 2007, at 14:24:23

I think maybe I did go up too quickly on the dose. In fact, I think maybe that's been my problem with other meds (SSRI's) before. Paxil used to work for me well before but last time I tried it in January I went straight to 30mg because that was my previous dose. I probably should have slowly went from 10-30mg. After 8 weeks on it I felt much worse than before I started. Then I tried Effexor and went up fairly quickly on that dose and also felt worse. Even though some of the dosing instructions show a rather rapid increase, maybe some people need to very slowly increase. I'm just too impatient! I might still switch to Nardil. My appointment's today. Does anybody know how much of washout is needed to switch from one maoi to another? I've read some posts of people being on both at the same time (not recommended) so since I'm on a low dose I'm hoping I can switch after just a couple days, if I do switch.

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by Jedi on July 7, 2007, at 4:00:24

In reply to Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by Shaner on July 5, 2007, at 12:57:06

Hi,
I've been on MAOIs for most of the past ten years(mostly Nardil). I would give the Parnate at least six weeks. When I was taking 80mg of Parnate it took eight weeks for the afternoon tiredness to wear off. Many times I ended up taking two hour naps, which really didn't help the evening insomnia.

Even though they are both MAOIs, Parnate and Nardil are very different medications. Some people will respond to one while the other does nothing for them. Then there is augmentation. Many PDOCS really hate to mix anything with a MAOI, but in the right hands a lot of combinations are possible. I've taken nortriptyline, bupropion, and other non-serotonergic medications with Nardil. Many people here have used stimulants with MAOIs. Lithium is probably the most researched of the augmentation medications, and helps many unipolar as well as bipolar patients. There are always options.
Be well,
Jedi


> In the last month I've been taking Parnate and had some success at first with 10-20mg, followed by going downhill as I increased the dose to 40mg. My fatigue and anxiety actually increased. Now back down to 20mg for the last few days I feel somewhat better. This has often been the pattern for me with other meds before. Should I be satisfied with a partial success or try Nardil? It sounds like Nardil is usually better for anxiety and social anxiety, which sounds appealing to me. I thought Parnate would be better since it's often more stimulating and fatigue and lack of motivation are a major part of my problem. But I haven't had any miracles in that area yet. For those of you who have read these sites often, would you say you've noticed many who have a much better success with Nardil after a partial success with Parnate?

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?

Posted by Shaner on July 7, 2007, at 17:23:40

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by Jedi on July 7, 2007, at 4:00:24

Thanks for the advice. I just went to the pdoc on Thursday and we decided for me to stay on 20mg Parnate for now and make a chart showing moodswings. I asked about adding a small dose of klonopin which he gave me and warned me about the tolerance issue. He said to take on a as needed basis and take breaks. I've only taken twice 0.5mg and it may have helped with the tired, anxious, wanting to go to bed feeling but it's too early to tell. I was already starting to feel better at a lower dose 20mg Parnate but still mediocre so I'll see how it goes with time. Maybe I'll increase the Parnate as I get more used to it.

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by malcolm664 on July 7, 2007, at 20:37:05

In reply to Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardil?, posted by Shaner on July 5, 2007, at 12:57:06

> In the last month I've been taking Parnate and had some success at first with 10-20mg, followed by going downhill as I increased the dose to 40mg. My fatigue and anxiety actually increased. Now back down to 20mg for the last few days I feel somewhat better. This has often been the pattern for me with other meds before. Should I be satisfied with a partial success or try Nardil? It sounds like Nardil is usually better for anxiety and social anxiety, which sounds appealing to me. I thought Parnate would be better since it's often more stimulating and fatigue and lack of motivation are a major part of my problem. But I haven't had any miracles in that area yet. For those of you who have read these sites often, would you say you've noticed many who have a much better success with Nardil after a partial success with Parnate?

Well Parnate and Nardil are both MAOIS and you can expect substantial fatigue even if you switch from one to the other.

The good news (at least in my case) is that the fatigue greatly diminishes with time. I've been on both meds since th end of April 2007 (right now I'm on Parnate at 80 mgs) and the tremendous fatigue that I experienced for the first 2 1/2 months has slowly decreased. I still get tired and have to take afternoon naps, but there are many days when I don't. And 2-4 cups of VERY strong coffee throughout the day also helps enormously.

And you can also expect serious insomnia, which is still a problem for me, unless I take Lunesta (3 mgs) and Klonopin (50 mgs); since I started taking those meds for sleep, I've only had one sleepless night (and that was b/c I made the mistake of taking 1/4 of my daily dose of Parnate at the same time).

Overall, I've felt the Parnate has helped with depression, but less so for social anxiety.

Malcolm

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:48:31

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi, posted by malcolm664 on July 7, 2007, at 20:37:05

> > In the last month I've been taking Parnate and had some success at first with 10-20mg, followed by going downhill as I increased the dose to 40mg. My fatigue and anxiety actually increased. Now back down to 20mg for the last few days I feel somewhat better. This has often been the pattern for me with other meds before. Should I be satisfied with a partial success or try Nardil? It sounds like Nardil is usually better for anxiety and social anxiety, which sounds appealing to me. I thought Parnate would be better since it's often more stimulating and fatigue and lack of motivation are a major part of my problem. But I haven't had any miracles in that area yet. For those of you who have read these sites often, would you say you've noticed many who have a much better success with Nardil after a partial success with Parnate?
>
> Well Parnate and Nardil are both MAOIS and you can expect substantial fatigue even if you switch from one to the other.
>
> The good news (at least in my case) is that the fatigue greatly diminishes with time. I've been on both meds since th end of April 2007 (right now I'm on Parnate at 80 mgs) and the tremendous fatigue that I experienced for the first 2 1/2 months has slowly decreased. I still get tired and have to take afternoon naps, but there are many days when I don't. And 2-4 cups of VERY strong coffee throughout the day also helps enormously.
>
> And you can also expect serious insomnia, which is still a problem for me, unless I take Lunesta (3 mgs) and Klonopin (50 mgs); since I started taking those meds for sleep, I've only had one sleepless night (and that was b/c I made the mistake of taking 1/4 of my daily dose of Parnate at the same time).
>
> Overall, I've felt the Parnate has helped with depression, but less so for social anxiety.
>
> Malcolm

parnate actualy DECREASES GABA,in order to get a nardil type of response,parnate needs to be augmented,or it just is not gonna happen.

Best recomendations ive read are a benzo and nuerontion added to parnate.

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by Shaner on July 9, 2007, at 23:51:42

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi, posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:48:31

It seems like I'm feeling better the last 4 days at the 20mg dose of Parnate. It could also be the small dose of klonopin I've started with it. I'm going to not take any klonopin for a few days and see how I do. I just ordered Picamilon (GABA bonded with niacin) off the internet. It's suppossed to be similar to a benzo but without the sedation so I'm gonna try it with the Parnate. Has anybody ever tried it?

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by steel on July 10, 2007, at 5:41:35

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi, posted by Shaner on July 9, 2007, at 23:51:42

> It seems like I'm feeling better the last 4 days at the 20mg dose of Parnate. It could also be the small dose of klonopin I've started with it. I'm going to not take any klonopin for a few days and see how I do. I just ordered Picamilon (GABA bonded with niacin) off the internet. It's suppossed to be similar to a benzo but without the sedation so I'm gonna try it with the Parnate. Has anybody ever tried it?


Picamilion is not a substitute for a benzo.so many people just think gaba period is the case,but its not.

Benzos are unique in there affect on gaba,how they work,etc.

Gabaitril is a med that increases gaba,its hardly used for psych purposes,so if gaba alone was the case gabaitril would be making tons.

Picamilion is attatched to nicain so it will have both a calming/sedative effect,its an ok nutrient,fairly safe with parnate,but u will likl need to use klono now and then long as u r on parnate.

Good luck

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by malcolm664 on July 11, 2007, at 16:30:33

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi, posted by steel on July 9, 2007, at 8:48:31

> > > In the last month I've been taking Parnate and had some success at first with 10-20mg, followed by going downhill as I increased the dose to 40mg. My fatigue and anxiety actually increased. Now back down to 20mg for the last few days I feel somewhat better. This has often been the pattern for me with other meds before. Should I be satisfied with a partial success or try Nardil? It sounds like Nardil is usually better for anxiety and social anxiety, which sounds appealing to me. I thought Parnate would be better since it's often more stimulating and fatigue and lack of motivation are a major part of my problem. But I haven't had any miracles in that area yet. For those of you who have read these sites often, would you say you've noticed many who have a much better success with Nardil after a partial success with Parnate?
> >
> > Well Parnate and Nardil are both MAOIS and you can expect substantial fatigue even if you switch from one to the other.
> >
> > The good news (at least in my case) is that the fatigue greatly diminishes with time. I've been on both meds since th end of April 2007 (right now I'm on Parnate at 80 mgs) and the tremendous fatigue that I experienced for the first 2 1/2 months has slowly decreased. I still get tired and have to take afternoon naps, but there are many days when I don't. And 2-4 cups of VERY strong coffee throughout the day also helps enormously.
> >
> > And you can also expect serious insomnia, which is still a problem for me, unless I take Lunesta (3 mgs) and Klonopin (50 mgs); since I started taking those meds for sleep, I've only had one sleepless night (and that was b/c I made the mistake of taking 1/4 of my daily dose of Parnate at the same time).
> >
> > Overall, I've felt the Parnate has helped with depression, but less so for social anxiety.
> >
> > Malcolm
>
> parnate actualy DECREASES GABA,in order to get a nardil type of response,parnate needs to be augmented,or it just is not gonna happen.
>
> Best recomendations ive read are a benzo and nuerontion added to parnate.

This is the first time anyone on here has suggested adding neurotnin to treat social anxiety, no less. I thought that neurotnin was an antipsychotic med?

Care to elaborate? I'm not discounting what you're saying, but ultimately, I have to convince my doc since he's the only one who can write the scripts.

 

Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi

Posted by steel on July 13, 2007, at 20:50:17

In reply to Re: Decision about switching from Parnate to Nardi, posted by malcolm664 on July 11, 2007, at 16:30:33

Yeah there is a link,ughh i never post them,i can find it if u like,which gives social anxiety suggestions.

Nuerontion is actualy not a anti-psych med,RATHER a anti convulsant that is used for so much stuff ranging from pain,to sleep,to mood stablization,to anxiety,and so on.

Even used in cases of withdrawal.Pzifer made it and now has its cousin out lyrica which shares its properties.

Genarly nuerontion is safe,and usualy can go to a high dose if needed,many people discredit it for much in the mind field,however when used along side a benzo its known for many to offer greater anxiety relieaf and social enhancment.

It doesent directly increase gaba,but its effect overall ends up affecting gaba,umm wow i dont know where to even stop,lol id do a google keyword search.

But its definatly not a anti psych med,mots people get it for migraines etc.

Lyrcia is being pushed much harder now as more effective,however gabenptin neurontions now dirt cheap generic is concindently available as lyrcia made its way out,and well personaly i like gabenptin better,its milder and allows u to control its effect more.

Again so much info i dont know where to start or start,keyword search the term,SOCIAL ANXIETY INSTITUTE,on google,there is a page that recomends both parnate and nardil as main anti depression meds for social anxiety,with xanax or klonopin as main benzos,then goes on to speak of third options such as neurontion,lamictal,etc


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