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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 3:04:51
I tried both toghether, and the Dex diminished Ritalins effects, probably due to it's Dop/Norph releasing/blocking effinities?
Posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 7:50:55
In reply to Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect, posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 3:04:51
You are correct sir.
Or you just didnt take enough ritalin (dont kill yourself in the name of science). This has been one of those theoretical combos people have argued about forever.
Also i think part of ritalins effectiveness relies on DBH changing dopamine to NE, amphetamine somewhat inhibits DBH.
Posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 9:03:04
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect, posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 7:50:55
> You are correct sir.
>
> Or you just didnt take enough ritalin (dont kill yourself in the name of science). This has been one of those theoretical combos people have argued about forever.
>
> Also i think part of ritalins effectiveness relies on DBH changing dopamine to NE, amphetamine somewhat inhibits DBH.I don't what the f*ck you are saying. Dex releases Dopamine and Norepinephrine from pre synaptic neurons+inhibits their reuptake:
-amphetamine
(d-amphetamine) Dexedrine, DextroStat, Benzadrine ADD, ADHD, narcolepsy, obesity, depression 5-30mg
(40mg max) 10-25 hrs
CYP-2D6 * psychostimulant:
NE release +++
DA release ++
DA reuptake inhibition +
NE reuptake inhibition +Methylphenidate prevents Nor/Dop reuptake only:
-methylphenidate Ritalin, Concerta, Metadate, Methylin, Methylphen ADD, ADHD, depression, CFS 20-30mg
(60mg max) 2.9 hrs * psychostimulant:
DA reuptake inhibition
NE reuptake inhibition
NE releaseSo Amphetamines release AND block the reuptake of Dopamine/Norepinephrine-basically canceling Ritalins effects.
My life has been f*cked up thanks to a psych who thought i had ADD 3 years ago, started at 20mgs, went to 80mgs IR daily, and the only way i am able to type this is cos i'v plugged 60mgs Ritalin-and it's 4am, and i can't sleep.
i recently went three weeks without any Methylphenidate and felt brain dead.
Now he has given me Dextroamphetamine Sul, (Dexedrine-USA) 20mgs daily, and it's stronger.
I now need Xanax+/-Valium, Risperdal, Propranolol, Alcohol in crisis times, to stay sane.
Thank you Psychiatry.
I wish i had never started stimulants.
Posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 10:16:13
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect » dbc, posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 9:03:04
Amphetamine doesnt show any reuptake inhibition. It basically hijacks the DA/NE transporter cells before they get to the receptor and causes them to expell neurotransmitters into the neuronal cleft. But it does do other things like partially inhibiting the DBH enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting DA to NE).
Ritalin probably relies on this enzyme for some of its NE release.
Posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 10:26:30
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect, posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 10:16:13
"Amphetamine doesnt show any reuptake inhibition"
yes it does.
Posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 13:52:12
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect, posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 10:16:13
I've taken Wellbutrin 450mg when i was prescribed it many years ago, with adderall, it increases its effect a little but not much.
Posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 14:03:08
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine diminishes Ritalins effect, posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 13:52:12
> I've taken Wellbutrin 450mg when i was prescribed it many years ago, with adderall, it increases its effect a little but not much.
>
>Where i live you get 5 different diagnoses from Psydocs.
One Doc reccommended Wellbutrin-but i'd have to pay full price for it, while Rit and Dex are subsidised.
I tried Ritalin and it was ok, but harsh, so we went with low dose Dex.
I'll let you know, it's only been a week.
Posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 17:29:38
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine DOES prevent reuptake!! » dbc, posted by kelv on March 9, 2007, at 10:26:30
You will find no study on pubmed that says amphetamine is a reuptake inhibitor.
Posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 18:29:49
In reply to Re: Dexamphetamine DOES prevent reuptake!!, posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 17:29:38
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1234761&dopt=Abstract
Posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 18:39:59
In reply to Amphetamine is a releaser not a reuptake inhibitor, posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 18:29:49
Because methylphenidate and amphetamines are by far the most widely used agents for ADHD, most treatment-refractory patients will have already tried at least one of them. However, Dr. Wilens noted that methylphenidate and amphetamines exert their effects via somewhat different mechanisms: Methylphenidate binds fairly selectively to the dopamine transporter (thereby blocking reuptake) but does have some affinity for the norepinephrine transporter; amphetamines block reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine as well but, more importantly, also facilitate release of these neurotransmitters from presynaptic storage granules. These mechanistic differences may explain why a patient who doesn’t respond to methylphenidate may benefit from amphetamine, and vice versa.
http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com/march02/adhd.html
There where some more out there i am still looking up............i was on this, well i researched amphetamines 2 years so, im just now starting to rerember what i've posted back in time.
My old screen name was rjlockhart98.
Posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 18:51:40
In reply to Re: Amphetamine is a releaser a reuptake inhibitor, posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 18:39:59
Huh that doesnt seem to be a peer reviewed study and is just some random guys webpage.
Posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 18:54:20
In reply to Re: Amphetamine is a releaser a reuptake inhibitor, posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 18:39:59
another source.
http://corp.aadac.com/other_drugs/the_basics_about_other_drugs/amphetamines_beyond_abcs.asp
"Amphetamine enters nerve terminals and displaces neurotransmitter molecules (noradrenaline, dopamine) from storage areas within the nerve terminal. This results in an increase in the release of transmitter from the terminal during periods of rest. It is not necessary for the nerve itself to be stimulated for this sort of release to take place. Such release increases the activity of the organ system serviced by that nerve even when this activity is not needed.Amphetamine also prevents re-uptake of neurotransmitters (noradrenaline, dopamine) into the nerve terminal after release. Typically, nerves recycle transmitter substances, releasing them in response to a nerve impulse and taking the transmitter back into the terminal during rest periods. Thus, the action of released neurotransmitters is made more powerful by decreased neuronal reuptake, producing exaggerated cellular responses.
Because nerves have efficient re-uptake mechanisms, they normally do not need to synthesize large amounts of transmitter; thus, the ability of these nerves to synthesize new transmitter is limited. If the re-uptake mechanism is inhibited by amphetamine, transmitter that cannot get back into the nerve terminal will ultimately be destroyed. If high doses of amphetamines are taken over an extended period, the nerve terminal can become depleted of transmitter. Recovery after long periods of amphetamine use cannot occur until these nerve terminals synthesize enough transmitter to fulfill their functional duties. "
Posted by linkadge on March 9, 2007, at 19:14:29
In reply to Re: Amphetamine is a releaser a reuptake inhibitor, posted by rjlockhart on March 9, 2007, at 18:54:20
I think it has been established that amphetamine is both a release of catecholamines, and a reuptake inhibitor.
Linkadge
Posted by alohashirt on March 9, 2007, at 22:46:54
In reply to Amphetamine is a releaser not a reuptake inhibitor, posted by notfred on March 9, 2007, at 18:29:49
I couldn't take much Deedrine w/o getting high blood pressure so I mixed with Concerta and it was very effective.
Posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 23:35:44
In reply to Dex + Concerta worked fine for me, posted by alohashirt on March 9, 2007, at 22:46:54
The term reuptake inhibitor is being misused for amphetamine. it doesnt block the receptor like an SSRI it co-opts the DAT cells and causes them to release their dopamine before they're reuptaked.
Its just a misunderstanding of what reuptake inhibitor means.
Posted by linkadge on March 10, 2007, at 9:08:13
In reply to Re: Dex + Concerta worked fine for me, posted by dbc on March 9, 2007, at 23:35:44
But, amphetamine is still functionally inhibiting the ability of dopamine transporter to metabolize endogenious dopamine.
Linkadge
Posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 5:05:21
In reply to Re: Dex + Concerta worked fine for me, posted by linkadge on March 10, 2007, at 9:08:13
> But, amphetamine is still functionally inhibiting the ability of dopamine transporter to metabolize endogenious dopamine.
>
> LinkadgeThats what i'v read-Here Psych Drug Chart:
Dextroamphetamine
(d-amphetamine) Dexedrine, DextroStat ADD, ADHD, narcolepsy, obesity 5-30mg
(40mg max) 10-25 hrs
CYP-2D6 * psychostimulant:NE release +++
DA release ++
DA reuptake inhibition +
NE reuptake inhibition +Hence a double whammy effect, as opposed to Methylphenidates:
DA reuptake inhibition +
NE reuptake inhibition +
I know Ritalins not giving the same sharpened effects when i'v taken Dex.
Posted by linkadge on March 12, 2007, at 11:49:08
In reply to Re: Dex + Concerta worked fine for me » linkadge, posted by kelv on March 12, 2007, at 5:05:21
I know what DBC is referring to.
There is a difference in the way that amphetamine and ritalin affect the dopamine transporter. But the net effect, I believe, is still less DAT to suck up excess dopamine.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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