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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 8:44:37
Hello everyone!!
Ive suffered with chronic insomnia for about 5-6 years and have tried many medications to treat it. My main problem being I only get about 4-5 hours of sleep per night and seem to constantly dream all the way through then wake up feelin like I did'nt even sleep. That was until I discovered Klonopin 2mg. I take it about 9pm and go to bed about 11-11.30pm sleep all the way through with very little or no dreams and get up with the help of my alarm clock at 7am and Im ready to go to work feeling refreshed and in a positive mood. I have been taking klon for about 1 week but I just know some thing has gotta give. I have read alot of things regarding tolerance and addiction and dont wanna keep ramping up the dose to get the same effect for sleep then become addicted, but at the same time I dont wanna go back to being a depressed insomniac!. Does anyone else use klonopin on a daily basis for sleep?, how are you tolerating it? and how long have you been using it for?.
Many thanx
Starfox.
Posted by laima on February 12, 2007, at 9:25:59
In reply to Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 8:44:37
I used it for a couple years before getting into problems- if it's working out now, give it a run.I personally wouldn't consider it a "king of insomnia" though, because of the eventual backlash, including early wakenings and effects of sleep cycle disturbance catching up with me. I started with .5, ended up at 2mg. One thing I wish in retrospect is that I would have combined it with other measures as I had been advised to.
Good luck!
> Hello everyone!!
>
> Ive suffered with chronic insomnia for about 5-6 years and have tried many medications to treat it. My main problem being I only get about 4-5 hours of sleep per night and seem to constantly dream all the way through then wake up feelin like I did'nt even sleep. That was until I discovered Klonopin 2mg. I take it about 9pm and go to bed about 11-11.30pm sleep all the way through with very little or no dreams and get up with the help of my alarm clock at 7am and Im ready to go to work feeling refreshed and in a positive mood. I have been taking klon for about 1 week but I just know some thing has gotta give. I have read alot of things regarding tolerance and addiction and dont wanna keep ramping up the dose to get the same effect for sleep then become addicted, but at the same time I dont wanna go back to being a depressed insomniac!. Does anyone else use klonopin on a daily basis for sleep?, how are you tolerating it? and how long have you been using it for?.
>
> Many thanx
> Starfox.
Posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2007, at 9:56:24
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia? » starfox, posted by laima on February 12, 2007, at 9:25:59
Maybe try lunesta first? Or a regular sleeping pill? Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on February 12, 2007, at 10:19:16
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2007, at 9:56:24
Geez, I didn't mean to sound skeptical. I am happy you found some relief to a long standing problem with insomnia. That's a big deal. And there are tons of testimonials that indicate people's results vary.I feel I should elaborate a little about why I think klonopin didn't work out for me. First of all, I never heard of benzo tolerance or withdrawal until after about 4 years of use- I thought my worsening anxiety was just that, and no one offered a clue otherwise. As my dose kept going up, and at times other sedating meds were also piled on, the doctor I had at the time eventually put me on an awful lot of daytime stimulants to compensate. I mean a lot- like 80mg ritalin on top of antidepressentrs like effexor and wellbutrin, for example. On top of that I'd drink excessive coffee. Meanwhile, not understanding the drug effects well, I eventually did take on too many excessively stressful projects, no doubt creating excess stress for myself. I figured I could always turn off the effects of overstimulation at night with the more sedating meds. I also didn't relax enough or take much downtime. I really started using medications to adjust my energy levels artificially. When another doctor began suggesting I re-examine my lifestyle choices and excessive use of stimulating substances and common drinking, I resisted, because I didn't comprehend that there was any problem. And again, when tolerance began to show up, since I had never heard of it, I just kept compensating by piling on meds. By the time I became better informed, I was in pretty deep. (And switched doctors.) Being more aware than I was, no doubt your experience should be better. I still use a daytime stimulant, but it's a microscopic fraction of what I used to use. I'm sleeping not perfect, but alright for now.
Posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 13:01:13
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by laima on February 12, 2007, at 10:19:16
Thanks for the replys, most interesting and appreciated.
Starfox.
Posted by med_empowered on February 12, 2007, at 15:41:16
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 13:01:13
Klonopin really isn't the best benzo for sleep. Its high-potency, so after a while you're going to lose the sedation and be left with anti-anxiety/mood-stabilizing effects. 1mg Klonopin=20mgs/valium, but 20mgs Valium makes a better sleeping pill, since it causes more drowsiness. Even xanax, which is also high potency, is better for sleep (IMO) than klonopin. The real benefit of nite-time Klonopin is that its super-long half-life can give patients anxiety relief during the day and calm down (hypo)manic patients long-term even after the sedation has worn off.
If you're in the BZD thing for insomnia long-haul, I think you should check out Restoril or maybe Dalmane..depending on where you live, Dormicum might also be an option. The non-BZD "z" hypnotics (sonata and ambien) plus Lunesta and Rozerem might also be useful.
Posted by rjlockhart on February 12, 2007, at 17:37:12
In reply to Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 8:44:37
I used to take Klonopin many months ago for sleep and panic attacks. Klonopin makes me, well in general its mind numbing. It makes me depressed.
I switched to Xanax. Which has kept me stable. Xanax only lasts 2 hours is the only thing. So that sucks.
Klonopin is very good for sleep.
Posted by randermin on February 12, 2007, at 22:57:10
In reply to Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by starfox on February 12, 2007, at 8:44:37
benzos have helped me alot as well, really I'd say they are the only viable sleep meds out there for many folks. 2mg is a high dose, I would get quite a hangover from that, I wonder if the "refreshed" feeling is actually just a benzo high as you wake up, which is nice, but just not exactly a sign of good health.
for me tolerance is always the problem whith klonopin, but more so with xanax, even though it was very effective for me.
the best way to go I think is to have two benzos with different profiles to alternate betwean or occasionally combine. one long-lasting, like Klonopin, and another shorter-acting one, like ativan. I cant get xanax prescribed from any doctor, but maybe the extended release one would make a good ativan subsitute. anyway, hang in there, but make sure you dont get into high tolerance mode, which can affect your sleep and sleep habits. having both an A and B benzo to rely on seems to do the trick for me, its also really important to not take anything on some nights. good luck
Posted by laima on February 13, 2007, at 11:09:11
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia?, posted by randermin on February 12, 2007, at 22:57:10
The thing I keep stumbling over most regarding benzos and sleep is their disruption of deep sleep, diminishing stages 3 and 4- which are said to be crucial for mental health. I had two sleep studies while on clonazapam, and indeed, these stages were pretty lacking- especially on higher dose. As for waking up after taking a benzo, I think that "high" you mention could be rebound stimulation or anxiety after it wears off. As I developed tolerance, my awakenings became earlier and earlier, panickier and panickier. I also had problems with short acting benzos and sleep for this very sort of reason- waking up as soon as they wore off, an effect that would become increasingly pronounced. At least clonazapam is a long acting benzo-plausably still longer acting than something like xanax after tolerence developes to either/both? Your thought about taking breaks to preserve efficacy seems a good one.
Posted by jonathanupr on February 13, 2007, at 21:55:10
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia? » randermin, posted by laima on February 13, 2007, at 11:09:11
I was struggling with only being able to sleep for 5 to 6 hours .... took 1 mg of Klon for a few months, went down to .5mg .... and am now at .25mg.
I'd say it's fairly decent. Pros were that it wasn't too habit forming, it did help out a lot at first.... Now it's just a bit helpful, not much (but I am at the .25mg dose).
Cons involve it being a bit emotionally numbing, insidiously a creeper on this one, as I didn't notice it until I came off of it.
If it's working for you then you may want to stick with it. There really is no wonder drug out there that works for everyone.
You may want to give Gabitril a thought.... that's helped me a ton with sleep. Cons on that involve one side effect, that being it can paralyze the mental functionability if dose is too high, but titrating the dose is easy.
Posted by randermin on February 14, 2007, at 3:57:21
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia? » randermin, posted by laima on February 13, 2007, at 11:09:11
I'm lucky in the fact that panic is not really an with me, or staying asleep, as long as I'm not on an AD like effexor, so the shorter-acting ones work well for me since there is less hangover, and often more knockout power. still nothing resists tolerance better than k in my exoerience. I think you right about deep sleep though, even though Ive never had a sleep study (where they didnt kick me out just as I was falling asleep at 5). some doctors have told me that the resorative sleep idea is not really an issue, but I'm sure it is, now I know its not just me, hopefully gaboxadol will be out soon, the only other (pleasent) deep sleep drug is ghb, which is kind of a giant gun... if gvl or dvl where legal again I bet theyd be useful in that respect.
Posted by Greif on February 17, 2007, at 20:24:56
In reply to Re: Klonopin king of Insomnia? » starfox, posted by laima on February 12, 2007, at 9:25:59
All benzos prevent deep sleep. I have been taking 2mg of Klon for 2 years and am tapering off. Tolerance builds with all benzos. Klon takes a bit longer. I can take a 2mg pill in the daytime and not feel it, A normal person would be knocked out. Benzos should be used for no longer than 14 days if you experience a life altering event. Otherwise take as needed if you hav panic attacks. I have taken all the benzos. This is the 3rd time Ive developed a dependence. Its not bad tapering if you take it slow.
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