![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 12:17:54
In reply to Please be civil. » Quintal, posted by yxibow on January 19, 2007, at 10:04:56
>No comment. Let's all freebase Cymbalta.
So you did comment afterall? I hope you don't take this as being uncivil, but I think you're being petty and childish there yxibow. Cocaine can cause a deviated septum because of its vasoconstrictor effect, which causes tissue damage when blood flow is reduced for long periods of time. I don't think ketamine is such a powerful vasoconstrictor.
>Yes... In medicine. Where there are trained doctors to do this, not watchers and Erowid Vault experiences.
The doctors in that scenario were using high anaesthetic doses of IV ketamine along with other substances. The guy still suffered a severe reaction that would have happened wherever he happened to take the ketamine. The 'k-hole' experience may be terrifying for some, others actually like it in a perverse thrill-seeking way, the same way some people like extreme sports, bungee jumping, hang gliding and mountain climbing.
>Please be civil in your conversations. I am offended and it seems you have a vendetta against my postings on the board.
Likewise yxibow. Rovers95 said he found your post aggressive. I could say you yourself have a vendetta against me and other posters who believe in the potential of some drugs of abuse in the treatment of psychiatric disorders, but that would be sulking. I feel you've attempted to silence me and stifle threads on these topics on several occasions.
>How do you know? This is just claimed.
I have no reason to distrust rovers95 on the amount of ketamine he is using and the argument is hypothetical - he may not be using ketamine at all, just opening the subject up for discussion. At least he's not advocating the use of large anaesthetic doses.
>Well, then take that bottle and go Robotripping if you want and vomit and have all the effects of downing a bottle of dextromethorphan, but please don't use my tax dollars to bail yourself out at the hospital.
I think you've been very rude to me (and to quote Squiggles) presumptuous of my intentions. I would not take DXM with the intention of going 'Robotripping', nor would I be foolish enough to admit myself to hospital with a simple case of nausea and vomiting. All drugs have side effects. Don't worry, I live in the UK so none of your precious tax dollars would be affected in any way even if I did. Treatment is free here in any case.
>Good heavens this board is going weird.
No it isn't. This board is simply exploring new and unconventional ways of treating depression. That may seem strange and offensive to you but you are under no obligation to read the threads or participate in the discussion. Please don't ruin the thread for people who would like to discuss the use of ketamine in depression.
Q
Posted by rovers95 on January 19, 2007, at 13:10:48
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » yxibow, posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 12:17:54
Why would i want to use it in anaesthetic doses??!!! I really am not a thrill seeker and not someone who generally dabbles in recreational drugs!!
Here is another follow up study currently recruiting treatment resistant depressives for ketamine injection, they are also studying the ability of lamictal to attentuate negative psychological effects, and also riluzoles ability as an antidepressant.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00419003
I really dont know what xyibow's issue is with this discussion, as we are talking about a drug that seems to be undoubtedly succesful in treating a number of treatment resistant individuals!!
mark
Posted by yxibow on January 19, 2007, at 13:17:42
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » yxibow, posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 12:17:54
> >No comment. Let's all freebase Cymbalta.
>
> So you did comment afterall? I hope you don't take this as being uncivil, but I think you're being petty and childish there yxibow. Cocaine can cause a deviated septum because of its vasoconstrictor effect, which causes tissue damage when blood flow is reduced for long periods of time. I don't think ketamine is such a powerful vasoconstrictor.
Fair enough. Still not a great route for drug entry.>
> >Yes... In medicine. Where there are trained doctors to do this, not watchers and Erowid Vault experiences.
>
> The doctors in that scenario were using high anaesthetic doses of IV ketamine along with other substances. The guy still suffered a severe reaction that would have happened wherever he happened to take the ketamine. The 'k-hole' experience may be terrifying for some, others actually like it in a perverse thrill-seeking way, the same way some people like extreme sports, bungee jumping, hang gliding and mountain climbing.
And we have society sometimes to protect us from ourselves, and business to protect us from others, like hang gliding school, rock climbing school, and bungee jumping experts -- and some people still die even with that.
> >Please be civil in your conversations. I am offended and it seems you have a vendetta against my postings on the board.
>
> Likewise yxibow. Rovers95 said he found your post aggressive. I could say you yourself have a vendetta against me and other posters who believe in the potential of some drugs of abuse in the treatment of psychiatric disorders, but that would be sulking. I feel you've attempted to silence me and stifle threads on these topics on several occasions.
I haven't attempted to stifle you, I have posed arguments which you have responded to and I have actually agreed with a few of the ideas, like the one in "a controlled setting."
> >How do you know? This is just claimed.
>
> I have no reason to distrust rovers95 on the amount of ketamine he is using and the argument is hypothetical - he may not be using ketamine at all, just opening the subject up for discussion. At least he's not advocating the use of large anaesthetic doses.
That's good. But while this is a worldwide discussion, these substances remain prescription and for limited purposes here, and ketamine is largely stolen and diverted from veterinary use, if it hasn't already been fabricated from scratch. This leaves this board unfortunately open for liability as well, even if it is protected speech.
> >Well, then take that bottle and go Robotripping if you want and vomit and have all the effects of downing a bottle of dextromethorphan, but please don't use my tax dollars to bail yourself out at the hospital.
>
> I think you've been very rude to me (and to quote Squiggles) presumptuous of my intentions. I would not take DXM with the intention of going 'Robotripping', nor would I be foolish enough to admit myself to hospital with a simple case of nausea and vomiting. All drugs have side effects. Don't worry, I live in the UK so none of your precious tax dollars would be affected in any way even if I did. Treatment is free here in any case.
I would love universal health care -- go tell our... well I'll leave politics elsewhere, legislators.
> >Good heavens this board is going weird.
>
> No it isn't. This board is simply exploring new and unconventional ways of treating depression. That may seem strange and offensive to you but you are under no obligation to read the threads or participate in the discussion. Please don't ruin the thread for people who would like to discuss the use of ketamine in depression.
How am I ruining the thread by expressing my opinion that one admitted having illicitly obtained ketamine? That's my only comment. I've seen people using it and at least one who went into a k-hole, I don't get the use of it, but I am entitled to my opinion.At any rate, I went off myself, but the both of you were making a mockery of me, and I quote:
> >I can't believe I'm actually typing this.
>
> That's alright. You may be having a dissociative reaction. Try to stay calm, take deep breaths and back away from the computer.Haha, can't stop laughing at this!! Thanks quintal!!
If you want to make comments about childishness, the schoolyard gangup of oh yeah, that's funny to mock yxibow as well, I consider just as childish.
Let's both be civil and I will agree to stay out of your alternative discussions as much as I can because we obviously both have very different opinions on things like Ketamine, PCP, DXM, which I would consider even more dangerous than the alternative use of codeine and morphine/morphine derivatives.And the "...to hear from people who have taken PCP and DXM (I have a bottle in my cupboard for that very purpose)"
I may have misinterpreted, but the reason that we have to sign poison pads for dextromethorphan and pseudoephedrine in the US, because they're restricted to sale and age, for their intended purpose, is because people do all sorts of things with them like.... make crystal meth and.... go on dissociative highs at 15 and use whatever they can get including Coricin which would contain dangerous levels of multiple substances at that rate.So I recant that -- if its not an issue in England, go ahead and use it for what you want, but know how debasing in the US it is to sign for poor quality cough syrup that was formerly purely OTC. And in England you also have the option of signing off for codeine -- that left the US a long time ago because people were using it for purposes unintended at doses unintended and getting ill among other reasons.
Let's leave it there and not make things personal.
-- Jay.
Posted by rovers95 on January 19, 2007, at 13:19:57
In reply to New ketamine study, posted by rovers95 on January 19, 2007, at 13:10:48
Here is the recent ketamine study.......im sure you will agree the results are very promising.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2007, at 17:19:31
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » yxibow, posted by Quintal on January 19, 2007, at 12:17:54
> I think you've been very rude to me
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if you yourself feel putdown or accused. As Dr. Bob has said, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action. If you wish, you can appeal this decision to him.
Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2007, at 17:26:43
In reply to Please be civil. » Quintal, posted by yxibow on January 19, 2007, at 10:04:56
> ...it seems you have a vendetta against my postings on the board.
Please don't jump to conclusions about others.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action. If you wish, you can appeal this decision to him.
Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2007, at 17:29:32
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences?, posted by rovers95 on January 18, 2007, at 21:13:21
> Thats the reason i came on here, not to have someone come on all agressive in reply!!Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if you yourself feel putdown or accused. As Dr. Bob has said, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action. If you wish, you can appeal this decision to him.
Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2007, at 17:32:19
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » Quintal, posted by yxibow on January 19, 2007, at 13:17:42
>
> Let's both be civil and I will agree to stay out of your alternative discussions as much as I can> Let's leave it there and not make things personal.
>
> -- Jay.Thanks for posting this, Jay.
gg
Posted by rovers95 on January 20, 2007, at 3:23:13
In reply to Thank you » yxibow, posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2007, at 17:32:19
n/m
Posted by djmmm on January 20, 2007, at 11:01:29
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences????? » rovers95, posted by Phillipa on January 17, 2007, at 19:59:00
> Is that the horse tranquilizer. Forgive me if I'm wrong. Love Phillipa
That is somewhat of a misnomer. Ketamine is used as an anesthetic in the young and elderly, because it lacks the cardiovascular depressive effects of other more popular anesthetics.
It is, however, one of the most popular anesthetics in veterinary medicine
Posted by tessellated on January 20, 2007, at 14:49:54
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences?????, posted by djmmm on January 20, 2007, at 11:01:29
i'm curious as to how one would differentiate the "psychological" from the "physiological" anti-depressant effect. the studies discuss the physiolgical NMDA antagonism in a rather novel fashion that seem to be pointing to a sub-psychedelic effect.
so how does one differentiate the altered ego awareness from the neurochemical alterations?
Posted by KayeBaby on January 22, 2007, at 2:42:28
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » Quintal, posted by yxibow on January 19, 2007, at 13:17:42
>>And in England you also have the option of >signing off for codeine -- that left the US a >long time ago because people were using it for >purposes unintended at doses unintended and >getting ill among other reasons.
Nope. That wasn't the reason.
It would not be very rational to hold everyone responsible for the actions of a few so I would say that the reason we cannot get certain substances on our signature it that we have allowed ignorant legislatures to pass unfair laws.
Let us know how the Ketamine experiment goes.
If I needed it and it seemed promising to me I would not allow society to protect me from myself.Good luck!
Kaye
Posted by yxibow on January 22, 2007, at 5:53:17
In reply to Re: Please be civil., posted by KayeBaby on January 22, 2007, at 2:42:28
> >>And in England you also have the option of >signing off for codeine -- that left the US a >long time ago because people were using it for >purposes unintended at doses unintended and >getting ill among other reasons.
>
>
> Nope. That wasn't the reason.
>
> It would not be very rational to hold everyone responsible for the actions of a few so I would say that the reason we cannot get certain substances on our signature it that we have allowed ignorant legislatures to pass unfair laws.
Perhaps -- there are a lot of unfair laws.It may not be rational, but you can't buy more than 3.2 grams of Sudafed per day today in the US, and you have to sign special new touch pads under penalty of federal law. The same goes for dextromethorphan, and neither are available for people under 18. So if you're an emancipated minor with bad allergies, you're s.o.l.
And the pharmacies are still so disorganized that you might as well go to the counter because the "cards" that used to be in the places where you could just pick up a 96 of pseudoephedrine are never updated with the behind the counter supply. In fact, you rarely see 96 any more, so you have to pay even more for your pseudoephedrine. And some of them aren't even aware that you can buy up to 3.2 grams until they run your multiple boxes of whatever they happen to have behind the counter.
And that is holding everybody for the actions of a few -- the sheer explosion in the midwest (literally sometimes in meth houses) of illicit methamphetamine production from pseudoephedrine destined for local and large cities, and the serious injuries and deaths of teenagers who have downed Coricidin for DXM s* and giggles.
So we now have phenylephrine (Sudafed PE), otherwise previously known as Neosynephrine, which has been touted as a "great substitute", which by various medical accounts doesn't work at all. And of all absurdity, people of any age, even obvious senior citizens, have to sign for dextromethorphan.
So, how's about them apples. Like it or lump it, the DEA/NIDA is here to stay whether I agree with them or not (which I don't.)-- tidings.
Posted by Declan on January 22, 2007, at 13:56:11
In reply to Re: Please be civil. » KayeBaby, posted by yxibow on January 22, 2007, at 5:53:17
You can't get Sudafed here without a script. Maybe not at all?
Posted by Quintal on January 22, 2007, at 14:08:56
In reply to Re: Please be civil., posted by Declan on January 22, 2007, at 13:56:11
We can buy it off the self at shops like Savers the last time I looked, though this might have changed.
Q
Posted by yxibow on January 22, 2007, at 19:56:53
In reply to Re: Please be civil., posted by Declan on January 22, 2007, at 13:56:11
> You can't get Sudafed here without a script. Maybe not at all?
You must be in one of the midwestern states that put it in C-V, which is absurd, having to bug your GP for a prescription for a cold or sinus problems and possibly paying for a visit even if they haven't seen you in a while
The only time I've ever gotten it as a script was Entex LA, which is a long acting formula with a considerable amount of guaifenesin. But you can duplicate that if its OTC + Mucinex or whatever.
This is what I was replying to the comment about the some affecting the others, indeed it has. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal a while ago about difficulty obtaining Sudafed for legitimate purposes and new laws even making it a prescription (again) which puts it back years.
Posted by yxibow on January 22, 2007, at 20:00:38
In reply to Sudofed » Declan, posted by Quintal on January 22, 2007, at 14:08:56
> We can buy it off the self at shops like Savers the last time I looked, though this might have changed.
>
> QI don't know that methamphetamine abuse is as prevalent in England as heroin addiction, but you would know better than I would. Maybe a reason why the Misuse of Drugs Act hasn't pushed it that way -- yet.
Posted by Declan on January 23, 2007, at 12:57:25
In reply to Re: Sudafed et al. » Declan, posted by yxibow on January 22, 2007, at 19:56:53
No, I'm in Australia Yxi. After a car was discovered by accident going over the Sydney Harbour Bridge with a boot full of Sudafed and after big drums of pseudoephedrine went missing, a decision was made to phase it out.
In the Northern Territory some Aboriginal people sniff petrol and they have made a special form of it that it is apparently impossible to use that way.
Posted by yxibow on January 23, 2007, at 13:11:28
In reply to Re: Sudafed et al., posted by Declan on January 23, 2007, at 12:57:25
> No, I'm in Australia Yxi. After a car was discovered by accident going over the Sydney Harbour Bridge with a boot full of Sudafed and after big drums of pseudoephedrine went missing, a decision was made to phase it out.
> In the Northern Territory some Aboriginal people sniff petrol and they have made a special form of it that it is apparently impossible to use that way.
Good grief. Yeah, I know there are a fair bit of restrictions and lack of avalability of some things that even the US hasn't banned in Australia -- a more strong central government like Canada but perhaps more so ? Anyhow, that's for the politics board I guess. So did they replace it with phenylephrine or are sinus sufferers just having to get scripts ?
Huffing gas and any substance has been time immemorial for just about anything volatile, so I find it hard to see how you can block everything. I mean glues have been changed here too but if you're really stupid you can cruise the aisles of that certain big box hardware store here and find volatiles that would be rather nasty.
-- Jay
Posted by Nolegirl323 on January 27, 2007, at 12:27:39
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences????? » rovers95, posted by Phillipa on January 17, 2007, at 19:59:00
> Is that the horse tranquilizer. Forgive me if I'm wrong. Love Phillipa
Right-O Phillipa, A horse tranq.Tons of fun in college, (watch the "K-hole"), great for 'floor surfing,' but I'm not so sure about BP tx.
Just my 3 cents.
Posted by Nolegirl323 on January 27, 2007, at 12:32:21
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences? » yxibow, posted by Quintal on January 18, 2007, at 20:28:20
> >Why are we discussing the risks of illicit Ketamine use by snorting it
>
> Probably because it has been found an effective treatment for depression, rovers95 has illicit access to it and is curious.
>
> >The risks first of all are a deviated septum from hucking freebase up your nose.
>
> Unlikely with ketamine at low doses.
>
> > And yes, a "k-hole" at some point could happen, it isn't predictable, you're not a cat or a horse, a child, or a special need patient
>
> Treatment isn't predictable for animals and children either. People still get stuck in K-holes when ketamine is used in medicine. I saw a programme a while ago where a guy was given ketamine for pain after breaking his leg as an alternative to morphine and he started having and out-of-body experience. The doctors calmed him with midazolam.
>
> >I can't believe I'm actually typing this.
>
> That's alright. You may be having a dissociative reaction. Try to stay calm, take deep breaths and back away from the computer.
>
> >being monitored by an anesthesiologist IN SURGERY
>
> Rovers95 isn't using anaesthetic doses of ketamine.
>
> >to prevent you from FORGETTING WHO YOU ARE with a dissociative substance.
>
> That may be part of the therapeutic action of dissociatives - temporarily being lifted out of ego games and returning to everyday life with fresh eyes. You seem to find the idea of breaking rules and transcending ego threatening yxibow but others may not. It is a good idea to have a 'sitter' to supervise while taking dissociative drugs like ketamine though.
>
> >While we're at it, why not discuss the use of Dextromethorphan or PCP for depression. Um... no I don't think so.
>
> Why on Earth not yxibow? We already have discussions on buprenorphine, Adderall, codeine, and Ritalin in the treatment of depression. I think it would be very interesting to hear from people who have taken PCP and DXM (I have a bottle in my cupboard for that very purpose).
>
> QHey, while were on the topic, why not mention cocaine??
I NEVER felt depressed when I was flying on the coke plane.
Till the next day, that is...
(BTW, I am being sarcastic)
Posted by yxibow on January 27, 2007, at 13:47:42
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences?, posted by Nolegirl323 on January 27, 2007, at 12:32:21
> > >Why are we discussing the risks of illicit Ketamine use by snorting it
> >
> > Probably because it has been found an effective treatment for depression, rovers95 has illicit access to it and is curious.
> >
> > >The risks first of all are a deviated septum from hucking freebase up your nose.
> >
> > Unlikely with ketamine at low doses.
> >
> > > And yes, a "k-hole" at some point could happen, it isn't predictable, you're not a cat or a horse, a child, or a special need patient
> >
> > Treatment isn't predictable for animals and children either. People still get stuck in K-holes when ketamine is used in medicine. I saw a programme a while ago where a guy was given ketamine for pain after breaking his leg as an alternative to morphine and he started having and out-of-body experience. The doctors calmed him with midazolam.
> >
> > >I can't believe I'm actually typing this.
> >
> > That's alright. You may be having a dissociative reaction. Try to stay calm, take deep breaths and back away from the computer.
> >
> > >being monitored by an anesthesiologist IN SURGERY
> >
> > Rovers95 isn't using anaesthetic doses of ketamine.
> >
> > >to prevent you from FORGETTING WHO YOU ARE with a dissociative substance.
> >
> > That may be part of the therapeutic action of dissociatives - temporarily being lifted out of ego games and returning to everyday life with fresh eyes. You seem to find the idea of breaking rules and transcending ego threatening yxibow but others may not. It is a good idea to have a 'sitter' to supervise while taking dissociative drugs like ketamine though.
> >
> > >While we're at it, why not discuss the use of Dextromethorphan or PCP for depression. Um... no I don't think so.
> >
> > Why on Earth not yxibow? We already have discussions on buprenorphine, Adderall, codeine, and Ritalin in the treatment of depression. I think it would be very interesting to hear from people who have taken PCP and DXM (I have a bottle in my cupboard for that very purpose).
> >
> > Q
>
> Hey, while were on the topic, why not mention cocaine??
> I NEVER felt depressed when I was flying on the coke plane.
> Till the next day, that is...
> (BTW, I am being sarcastic)
You are being sarcastic and we shelved this topic if you did not read the posts before. So I would appreciate some decorum. But post to your hearts content about some really awful alkaloid if you wish, its your (mostly free) speech.
Posted by nolegirl23 on January 27, 2007, at 20:57:29
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences? » Nolegirl323, posted by yxibow on January 27, 2007, at 13:47:42
> > > >Why are we discussing the risks of illicit Ketamine use by snorting it
> > >
> > > Probably because it has been found an effective treatment for depression, rovers95 has illicit access to it and is curious.
> > >
> > > >The risks first of all are a deviated septum from hucking freebase up your nose.
> > >
> > > Unlikely with ketamine at low doses.
> > >
> > > > And yes, a "k-hole" at some point could happen, it isn't predictable, you're not a cat or a horse, a child, or a special need patient
> > >
> > > Treatment isn't predictable for animals and children either. People still get stuck in K-holes when ketamine is used in medicine. I saw a programme a while ago where a guy was given ketamine for pain after breaking his leg as an alternative to morphine and he started having and out-of-body experience. The doctors calmed him with midazolam.
> > >
> > > >I can't believe I'm actually typing this.
> > >
> > > That's alright. You may be having a dissociative reaction. Try to stay calm, take deep breaths and back away from the computer.
> > >
> > > >being monitored by an anesthesiologist IN SURGERY
> > >
> > > Rovers95 isn't using anaesthetic doses of ketamine.
> > >
> > > >to prevent you from FORGETTING WHO YOU ARE with a dissociative substance.
> > >
> > > That may be part of the therapeutic action of dissociatives - temporarily being lifted out of ego games and returning to everyday life with fresh eyes. You seem to find the idea of breaking rules and transcending ego threatening yxibow but others may not. It is a good idea to have a 'sitter' to supervise while taking dissociative drugs like ketamine though.
> > >
> > > >While we're at it, why not discuss the use of Dextromethorphan or PCP for depression. Um... no I don't think so.
> > >
> > > Why on Earth not yxibow? We already have discussions on buprenorphine, Adderall, codeine, and Ritalin in the treatment of depression. I think it would be very interesting to hear from people who have taken PCP and DXM (I have a bottle in my cupboard for that very purpose).
> > >
> > > Q
> >
> > Hey, while were on the topic, why not mention cocaine??
> > I NEVER felt depressed when I was flying on the coke plane.
> > Till the next day, that is...
> > (BTW, I am being sarcastic)
>
>
> You are being sarcastic and we shelved this topic if you did not read the posts before. So I would appreciate some decorum. But post to your hearts content about some really awful alkaloid if you wish, its your (mostly free) speech.
You are right, my sarcasm is something I'm working on in therapy. It's my defense mechanism.
Sorry everybody.
I was out of line.
Posted by yxibow on January 28, 2007, at 0:46:02
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences?, posted by nolegirl23 on January 27, 2007, at 20:57:29
> > > > >Why are we discussing the risks of illicit Ketamine use by snorting it
> > > >
> > > > Probably because it has been found an effective treatment for depression, rovers95 has illicit access to it and is curious.
> > > >
> > > > >The risks first of all are a deviated septum from hucking freebase up your nose.
> > > >
> > > > Unlikely with ketamine at low doses.
> > > >
> > > > > And yes, a "k-hole" at some point could happen, it isn't predictable, you're not a cat or a horse, a child, or a special need patient
> > > >
> > > > Treatment isn't predictable for animals and children either. People still get stuck in K-holes when ketamine is used in medicine. I saw a programme a while ago where a guy was given ketamine for pain after breaking his leg as an alternative to morphine and he started having and out-of-body experience. The doctors calmed him with midazolam.
> > > >
> > > > >I can't believe I'm actually typing this.
> > > >
> > > > That's alright. You may be having a dissociative reaction. Try to stay calm, take deep breaths and back away from the computer.
> > > >
> > > > >being monitored by an anesthesiologist IN SURGERY
> > > >
> > > > Rovers95 isn't using anaesthetic doses of ketamine.
> > > >
> > > > >to prevent you from FORGETTING WHO YOU ARE with a dissociative substance.
> > > >
> > > > That may be part of the therapeutic action of dissociatives - temporarily being lifted out of ego games and returning to everyday life with fresh eyes. You seem to find the idea of breaking rules and transcending ego threatening yxibow but others may not. It is a good idea to have a 'sitter' to supervise while taking dissociative drugs like ketamine though.
> > > >
> > > > >While we're at it, why not discuss the use of Dextromethorphan or PCP for depression. Um... no I don't think so.
> > > >
> > > > Why on Earth not yxibow? We already have discussions on buprenorphine, Adderall, codeine, and Ritalin in the treatment of depression. I think it would be very interesting to hear from people who have taken PCP and DXM (I have a bottle in my cupboard for that very purpose).
> > > >
> > > > Q
> > >
> > > Hey, while were on the topic, why not mention cocaine??
> > > I NEVER felt depressed when I was flying on the coke plane.
> > > Till the next day, that is...
> > > (BTW, I am being sarcastic)
> >
> >
> > You are being sarcastic and we shelved this topic if you did not read the posts before. So I would appreciate some decorum. But post to your hearts content about some really awful alkaloid if you wish, its your (mostly free) speech.
>
>
> You are right, my sarcasm is something I'm working on in therapy. It's my defense mechanism.
> Sorry everybody.
> I was out of line.It's okay, I understand. Don't worry. I wasn't trying to stifle any useful information in this topic, it just got to be a contention that you weren't a party to. I hope you can get the most out of therapy.
-- tidings
Posted by rovers95 on January 28, 2007, at 4:46:44
In reply to Re: Ketamine for depression.......any experiences? » nolegirl23, posted by yxibow on January 28, 2007, at 0:46:02
Unlike cocaine, ketamine's AD effects are apart from its recreational effects. For example, kets half-life is around 2 hours, but its AD effects can last for over a week (about 5-6 days for me).
There have been legitimate studies done very recently, and more are in the pipeline. Google it if u want verification.
Anyway, with this not being a viable long-term option (risk of pyschosis - now that would make my docs think they were right all along!!), i am aiming to trial riluzole 50mg x 2 from later this week. Friday obtained some from an online source, so waiting to arrive. Will let everyone know how i get on - hopefully the benefits will exceed the cost (£60 per week)!!
mark
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