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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on December 28, 2006, at 14:44:55
I always appreciate the non-judgemental advice from everyone here, which makes me comfortable to ask the following question (understanding it does not constitute medical advice):Practically speaking, are there any serious problems that could occur from having 2-3 drinks (beer--not liquor) with 1 mg Ativan (in a healthy person)? I would not expect significant disinhibition if the drinks were slowly spaced out.
I realize they shouldn't be mixed but sometimes the real world is just that.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:33:34
In reply to Ativan and Alcohol, posted by saturn on December 28, 2006, at 14:44:55
No, no problems to be expected. I drank loads when I was taking benzos (often 8mg Klonopin) including spirits and took other CNS depresants like GHB and barbiturates with no problems.
Q
Posted by saturn on December 28, 2006, at 16:08:57
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » saturn, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:33:34
Thanks Quintal for sharing your experience. Much appreciated...Peace...Saturn
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 17:42:39
In reply to Thank Q » Quintal, posted by saturn on December 28, 2006, at 16:08:57
Saturn same for me until the pdoc put me on chloral hydrate end of drinking. Love Phillipa ps off it now but not drinking
Posted by yxibow on December 28, 2006, at 18:20:07
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » saturn, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:33:34
> No, no problems to be expected. I drank loads when I was taking benzos (often 8mg Klonopin) including spirits and took other CNS depresants like GHB and barbiturates with no problems.
>
> QOh boy -- I didn't want to have another argument but 8mg of Klonopin (that's 160mg of Valium), and hard liquor, and GHB, and barbiturates is a setup for instant respiratory depression and a coma unless you happen to be 6'9 and weigh 280lbs, and even then I'm not sure.
But 1mg of lorazepam and a few drinks every now and then isn't an issue -- just enhances the effect of the benzodiazepine and sort of makes it superfluous. High dosages of benzodiazepines and stiff amounts of alcohol though can lead to respiratory depression, something that normally does not happen very often with pure benzodiazepines and nothing else. That's why they were made and have a high solo LD50.
-- Jay
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:41:47
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » Quintal, posted by yxibow on December 28, 2006, at 18:20:07
>Oh boy -- I didn't want to have another argument but 8mg of Klonopin (that's 160mg of Valium), and hard liquor, and GHB, and barbiturates is a setup for instant respiratory depression and a coma unless you happen to be 6'9 and weigh 280lbs, and even then I'm not sure.
If they were taken all at the same time I imagine that would be true, but that would be crazy and suicidal. I took 8mg (more actually) and drank alcohol (lager, beer or wine) and GHB (occasionally at the same time in low doses). I also took 65mg Phenobarbital with 4mg Klonopin and just felt a little drowsy.
I *did* have respiratory depression (almost failure) however with 20mg Klonopin and 800mg tramadol. I'm well aware of how astronomical those figures are and I also know I took that amount and survived. I'm a mere 5'9" and weigh something in the region of 180lb but I've always needed high doses of meds except with stimulants. Tolerance can develop rapidly to both opiates and benzos and I had been taking both for many months (years in the case of benzos). I also seem to be a fast metaboliser - those are the only explanations I can offer.
Q
Posted by yxibow on December 28, 2006, at 20:13:17
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » yxibow, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:41:47
>
>
> >Oh boy -- I didn't want to have another argument but 8mg of Klonopin (that's 160mg of Valium), and hard liquor, and GHB, and barbiturates is a setup for instant respiratory depression and a coma unless you happen to be 6'9 and weigh 280lbs, and even then I'm not sure.
>
> If they were taken all at the same time I imagine that would be true, but that would be crazy and suicidal. I took 8mg (more actually) and drank alcohol (lager, beer or wine) and GHB (occasionally at the same time in low doses). I also took 65mg Phenobarbital with 4mg Klonopin and just felt a little drowsy.
>
> I *did* have respiratory depression (almost failure) however with 20mg Klonopin and 800mg tramadol. I'm well aware of how astronomical those figures are and I also know I took that amount and survived. I'm a mere 5'9" and weigh something in the region of 180lb but I've always needed high doses of meds except with stimulants. Tolerance can develop rapidly to both opiates and benzos and I had been taking both for many months (years in the case of benzos). I also seem to be a fast metaboliser - those are the only explanations I can offer.
I was going to say you had to be a fast metabolizer -- 20mg of clonazepam is not normally taken except in epileptic settings. But I understand, I am too -- I don't like some levels of medications I have to take but that is one explanation for it. Although I don't have OCD particularly (well technically I do slightly at the moment, you do for life), it can fall in "the spectrum" and people with OCD can apparently also be fast metabolizers with medication.Please be careful :( -- respiratory depression with benzodiazepines and most definately with barbiturates can be fatal and requires things like flumazenil and heroic efforts in the ER.
Anyhow.. on a more upbeat tone, tie the new year in safely.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 21:30:30
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » Quintal, posted by yxibow on December 28, 2006, at 20:13:17
Jay really OCD creates fast metabolizers explains why the valium doesn't last all day. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 22:40:31
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » Quintal, posted by yxibow on December 28, 2006, at 20:13:17
>I was going to say you had to be a fast metabolizer -- 20mg of clonazepam is not normally taken except in epileptic settings.
Yes, I assume that's why I aslo have trouble gaining weight and easily 'overheat'. I'm the only person my pdoc has seen lose 3lb on Zyprexa (partly due to an aggressive counter attack on my part with a diet of fruit and vegetables plus glucophage tablets).
>But I understand, I am too -- I don't like some levels of medications I have to take but that is one explanation for it. Although I don't have OCD particularly (well technically I do slightly at the moment, you do for life), it can fall in "the spectrum" and people with OCD can apparently also be fast metabolizers with medication.
There's also psychological tolerance to consider - you'll probably have heard of heroin addicts overdosing on their normal hit simply because they've taken it in a different setting. The dose that's just enough to get high in their apartment bathroom is enough to cause respiratory arrest if taken in the park. I guess an extremely anxious person often has a higher tolerance to sedatives/anxiolytics than an easygoing character of the same bodyweight?
>Please be careful :( -- respiratory depression with benzodiazepines and most definitely with barbiturates can be fatal and requires things like flumazenil and heroic efforts in the ER.
I'm now off all benzos etc., but I do often take some OTC codeine products - not enough to cause any respiratory depression. I'd never mix barbs and alcohol, or barbs and GHB. I did mix Phenobarbital with Klonopin because I had developed tolerance to that dose. Oddly Phenobarbital had a stronger effect during benzo withdrawal - it was like being extremely drunk but I didn't find that when I took it with benzos.
Q
Posted by saturn on December 29, 2006, at 1:52:46
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » yxibow, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 22:40:31
Thanks everyone. I'm certainly not making a habit of it, but for a single occasion 1 mg Ativan with 3 spaced out drinks was for me personally no problem whatsoever. Peace...Saturn.
Posted by invisiblemanpa on January 1, 2007, at 8:31:51
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » yxibow, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:41:47
it stinks....but I found out again that Ativan plus antidepresants (remeron,lexapro).....and alcohol do not mix.....not even one beer.....it is a setup for disaster....I drank on my meds after not drinking for over a year and I ended up a raving idiot and in the ER, then the mental health unit for 5 days of hell..........I still would love the taste of beer or a glass of Merlot.....but it just doesn't mix.......I learned the hard way......Don't drink on meds!
Posted by yxibow on January 2, 2007, at 1:04:50
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol..Don't Do It!!, posted by invisiblemanpa on January 1, 2007, at 8:31:51
> it stinks....but I found out again that Ativan plus antidepresants (remeron,lexapro).....and alcohol do not mix.....not even one beer.....it is a setup for disaster....I drank on my meds after not drinking for over a year and I ended up a raving idiot and in the ER, then the mental health unit for 5 days of hell..........I still would love the taste of beer or a glass of Merlot.....but it just doesn't mix.......I learned the hard way......Don't drink on meds!
While I sympathize with your situation, and yes, the general instruction from pharmacies, doctors, and the CYA protection in drug monographs, one drink or a glass of merlot -- and I mean one, even with Ativan and lexapro unless you're on 40mg of lorazepam and sky high doses of lexapro or cannot process the cytochromes that the two go through, which I forget offhand but a small number of people have low tolerance for CYP2D6 I believe, the average person is not going to get more than a headache at worst.
This is not open season on ethanol, but danger will robinson is not warranted for half a milligram of lorazepam, a good liver system, and a minimal amount of lexapro or remeron and an average adult -male- (females have different weight tolerance for alcohol, that does have to take into account) can certainly have a spot of bubbly to cheer in 2007.-- tidings
and best wishes for all for 2007
Posted by yxibow on January 2, 2007, at 8:06:23
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 21:30:30
> Jay really OCD creates fast metabolizers explains why the valium doesn't last all day. Love Phillipa
While its not a causal link I know but severe anxiety disorders may require a greater amount of medication -- its not necessarily an obsession per se over the medication itself.
I was trying to find an example in adults, this one pertains more to children
". Treatment response,including serotonergic specificity and the need for robust dosing, is another feature shared by early- and adult-onset OCD."
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2007, at 18:05:05
In reply to Re: Ativan and Alcohol » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on January 2, 2007, at 8:06:23
So more luvox????Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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