![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by yesac on December 8, 2006, at 11:53:06
I'm just wondering about people's experiences with tricyclics. I've been on practically every other antidepressant. The one class that I still have left are tricyclics. I tried desipramine for about 3 weeks and found that it made my heart race and I couldn't pee. After that I pretty much wrote off the whole class of drugs.
But now that I'm down to the wire, I'm considering revisiting tricyclics.
I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts or experiences or recommendations.
Thanks.
Posted by lymom3 on December 8, 2006, at 12:07:51
In reply to Tricyclics, posted by yesac on December 8, 2006, at 11:53:06
Nortriptyline in combination with Lexapro worked for me for a while. No weight gain or any negative side effects that I can remember.
Posted by Quintal on December 8, 2006, at 14:17:43
In reply to Re: Tricyclics, posted by lymom3 on December 8, 2006, at 12:07:51
My second AD was dothiepin/dosulepin. Helped me sleep better and lifted my mood quite quickly. Side effects were dizziness, chest pain, tachycardia, difficulty peeing.
I also tried imipramine which didn't seem to do much for me in terms of mood. I didn't give it much chance to be fair because the side effects of flushed cheeks, sweating, constipation and dry mouth were hard to tolerate. I was going through benzo withdrawal at the time though, so that probably screws the results.
In general I prefer the TCA side effect profile to the SSRIs. I get the impression a sedating TCA taken as a singe dose at night can be very effective and fast acting for depression associated with anxiety and insomnia. It's something I would consider doing again myself.
Q
Posted by med_empowered on December 8, 2006, at 18:28:55
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » lymom3, posted by Quintal on December 8, 2006, at 14:17:43
I didn't really like Tofranil. With Adderall, it did act quickly (2 weeks or so) to diminish symptoms, but even w/ the adderall I had weight gain and sedation, and the side effects got to be intolerable. Plus, after the 2 weeks of fairly rapid improvement, I kind of hit a plateau of not-quite-so depressed.
I hear Surmontil is good stuff, especially if you cant sleep..its kind of clozapine-ish, so if you've responded well to low dose atypicals, you might like it. If you hate neuroleptics..you migth want to leave it alone. It can actually improve the quality of sleep; most ADs suppress REM sleep.
Asendin is a classic for psychotic depression and treatment-resistant depression. The problem, of course, is that its basically a neuroleptic (loxapine-ish) w/ some AD properties, so you have the whole EPS/TD thing to contend with. But..in some depressed people, there have been rapid improvements. If it worked, I imagine you could stabilize and find something to switch over to. Also, antioxidants might be used to prevent TD--you can do a google on that.
Although I hated TCA+adderall, that kind of combo can be very, very powerful in people who respond to those meds, but partially...they play off each other to boost concentrations of both amphetamine and TCA in the brain and blood. Can be tricky, but potentially quite helpful. An MAOI+TCA combo can be helpful for some people; an MAOI+TCA+stimulant combo can also be helpful (although I think it would be easier to try out MAOI+stim or TCA+stim).
Good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2006, at 20:01:26
In reply to Re: Tricyclics, posted by med_empowered on December 8, 2006, at 18:28:55
Years ago I was given one for panic attacks the doc called it an upper/downer no idea what it was but I cried the whole night while my first husband walked the streets with me. So never again. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 8, 2006, at 20:35:07
In reply to Tricyclics, posted by yesac on December 8, 2006, at 11:53:06
>I hear Surmontil is good stuff, especially if you cant sleep..its kind of clozapine-ish, so if you've responded well to low dose atypicals, you might like it. If you hate neuroleptics..you migth want to leave it alone. It can actually improve the quality of sleep; most ADs suppress REM sleep.
You've got me thinking med_empowered. Surmontil (trimipramine) has been on my list for a while for this reason. I'm not convinced its much better than Remeron in any way though? I'm also worried about its D2 antagonism etc and the risk of EPS, which is absent with Remeron.
Anafranil (clomipramine) is the other TCA that stands out from the rest in my mind because of its strong seretogenic effects. It is licensed for social phobia in some countries and also for cataplexy (sudden attacks of sleep), which sounds interesting to me. It's supposed to be quite stimulating, though I've heard it helps with insomnia. Sexual dysfunction seems to be common and severe, probably due to clomipramine's strong inhibitory effect on serotonin reuptake? There are other meds such as cyproheptadine or Wellbutrin that can counteract that problem though.
Thinking about it, MAOIs often have fewer side effects and are more tolerable if you can live with the dietary restrictions, but I guess you've tried them already yesac? Have you tried augmentation strategies such as Lamictal, Wellbutrin etc?
Q
Posted by Maxime on December 8, 2006, at 21:42:25
In reply to Tricyclics, posted by yesac on December 8, 2006, at 11:53:06
Been on a few and they either knock me out or made my heart race ... except Desipramine. I just couldn't pee. :)
Maybe Pamelor?
Maxime
> I'm just wondering about people's experiences with tricyclics. I've been on practically every other antidepressant. The one class that I still have left are tricyclics. I tried desipramine for about 3 weeks and found that it made my heart race and I couldn't pee. After that I pretty much wrote off the whole class of drugs.
>
> But now that I'm down to the wire, I'm considering revisiting tricyclics.
>
> I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts or experiences or recommendations.
>
> Thanks.
Posted by yesac on December 9, 2006, at 13:47:21
In reply to Re: Tricyclics, posted by Quintal on December 8, 2006, at 20:35:07
> You've got me thinking med_empowered. Surmontil (trimipramine) has been on my list for a while for this reason. I'm not convinced its much better than Remeron in any way though? I'm also worried about its D2 antagonism etc and the risk of EPS, which is absent with Remeron.
Is Remeron something you're currently taking? That and Zoloft, aside from the TCAs, are the only two ADs that I haven't tried. My psychiatrist keeps mentioning Remeron (mainly because it's one of the only things left). I'm afraid of it though because of the possible weight gain and sedation. I was thinking of first trying Zoloft or a TCA and only trying Remeron if those don't work. But I don't know.... What do you think of Remeron?
> Anafranil (clomipramine) is the other TCA that stands out from the rest in my mind because of its strong seretogenic effects.Yeah, I was thinking about that or nortriptyline as my top TCA choices. Of course I haven't yet discussed this with my psychiatrist, so I want to hear what he thinks too.
> Thinking about it, MAOIs often have fewer side effects and are more tolerable if you can live with the dietary restrictions, but I guess you've tried them already yesac?Yes, Parnate and EMSAM. Parnate made me even more depressed. I didn't think EMSAM worked, but since I've been off it I've noticed that I feel worse, so now I'm wondering if it was actually doing something. If it did work, it certainly didn't do much, but I'm thinking if I went back on it I could possibly push the dose up. However, it did give me severe insomnia. And I'm not terribly keen on going back on the diet.
> Have you tried augmentation strategies such as Lamictal, Wellbutrin etc?
I've tried Lamictal. I've tried Wellbutrin. But not really as augmentors. I guess it seems to me that something has to work at least a little bit first before augmenting it with something else. What's the point of augmenting if the drug isn't doing anything in the first place?
Posted by Quintal on December 9, 2006, at 14:16:50
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 9, 2006, at 13:47:21
>Is Remeron something you're currently taking? That and Zoloft, aside from the TCAs, are the only two ADs that I haven't tried. My psychiatrist keeps mentioning Remeron (mainly because it's one of the only things left). I'm afraid of it though because of the possible weight gain and sedation. I was thinking of first trying Zoloft or a TCA and only trying Remeron if those don't work. But I don't know....
I took Remeron first a few years ago with Klonopin and I took it again last month as a remedy for insomnia. Nardil, EMSAM and a few of the more obscure TCAs are the only ADs I haven't tried either.
>What do you think of Remeron?
Not much. It made me very drowsy and heavy - physically and mentally. Remeron did help me deal with stressful situations a bit like a benzo, but I'm not sure it's worth the cognitive impairment and other side effects that were worse then benzos. As for mood, it's hard to tell. I don't remember having moods as such with Remeron, mainly because I was so heavily sedated all the time? There's a thread just started about combining Remeron and Effexor by Borderliner86 called 'California Rocket Fuel'. Apparently they can be very stimulating.
Zoloft was much like the others when I tried it once. I couldn't handle the diarrhea and vomiting though. It was the worst SSRI for me with those side effects.
>I guess it seems to me that something has to work at least a little bit first before augmenting it with something else. What's the point of augmenting if the drug isn't doing anything in the first place?
I agree, but if you're treatment resistant it sounds like a good idea to think about combining Lamictal with the most effective AD you tried. I wonder what the Effexor, Remeron and Lamictal cocktail would be like?
Q
Posted by Quintal on December 9, 2006, at 14:19:43
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 9, 2006, at 13:47:21
Here's a link to the thread I mentioned: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061206/msgs/711848.html
Q
Posted by yesac on December 10, 2006, at 12:24:21
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 9, 2006, at 14:16:50
> Nardil, EMSAM and a few of the more obscure TCAs are the only ADs I haven't tried either.
I haven't tried Nardil either. Mainly because I had such a bad response to Parnate (it made me more depressed and very flat and dull). I don't know how similar they are. But I'm not excited about the diet so I guess I'd rather try other things first.
> Zoloft was much like the others when I tried it once. I couldn't handle the diarrhea and vomiting though. It was the worst SSRI for me with those side effects.Of the SSRIs, Celexa and Paxil basically did nothing. I mean I didn't even have any side effects. It was like I wasn't taking them at all. Prozac made me very agitated, homicidal, and revved up.
> I agree, but if you're treatment resistant it sounds like a good idea to think about combining Lamictal with the most effective AD you tried.
Hmmm... most effective AD.... ?? I'm honestly not sure that there is one that was effective at all. Maybe Cymbalta. Maybe EMSAM. But neither did enough that I felt like I actually felt much better. But I'm curious... why do you suggest combining an ineffective AD with Lamictal, which was also ineffective for me?
I'm a bit puzzled by this whole drug combination/augmentation concept. I mean, I understand it if a drug is helping a little bit, or if there are some side effects that another drug might counteract, or if there are some symptoms that don't improve on just the one drug. But is it really possible that taking two drugs that didn't work in the first place and putting them together could be effective?
Posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 13:41:42
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 10, 2006, at 12:24:21
>I haven't tried Nardil either. Mainly because I had such a bad response to Parnate (it made me more depressed and very flat and dull). I don't know how similar they are. But I'm not excited about the diet so I guess I'd rather try other things first.
Parnate also made me feel much more depressed and anxious at low doses (30mg). I only began to feel a positive response in the 80-120mg dose range after a few weeks - in combo with Klonopin. Having a bad response to Parnate doesn't necessarily predict a poor result with Nardil. Nardil has quite a different profile and may be beneficial.
>Of the SSRIs, Celexa and Paxil basically did nothing. I mean I didn't even have any side effects. It was like I wasn't taking them at all. Prozac made me very agitated, homicidal, and revved up.
Perhaps try Zoloft up to the max dose then?
>But I'm curious... why do you suggest combining an ineffective AD with Lamictal, which was also ineffective for me?
I did not suggest combining an *ineffective* AD with Lamictal, I believe that was your own suggestion yesac. I put forward the idea of combining Lamictal with the AD you found the *most effective* (assuming of course you had found any AD beneficial in some way) on the grounds of Lamictal being widely recognised as an augmenter. I was hoping you would find a greater response that AD (I was assuming of course you had found at least *some* small benefit from at least one AD in the pharmacopoeia).
>I'm honestly not sure that there is one that was effective at all. Maybe Cymbalta. Maybe EMSAM. But neither did enough that I felt like I actually felt much better.
Then as you say, the AD plus Lamictal combo is unlikely to be worthwhile. Please disregard it.
>I'm a bit puzzled by this whole drug combination/augmentation concept. I mean, I understand it if a drug is helping a little bit, or if there are some side effects that another drug might counteract, or if there are some symptoms that don't improve on just the one drug.
Lamictal has been effective as an augmenter for some treatment resistant patients. There are references I could find to support this, but it's a pain in the *ss to go and dig them out. I don't pretend to know the exact pharmacological mechanisms of this cocktail, I'm not sure anyone does know for sure, I'm just trying to provide what I think may be helpful suggestions to people who are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Obviously if you think a particular idea is rubbish feel free to disregard it.
Q
Posted by yesac on December 10, 2006, at 17:15:34
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 13:41:42
> Having a bad response to Parnate doesn't necessarily predict a poor result with Nardil. Nardil has quite a different profile and may be beneficial.
Well, I'll keep it in mind for the future then. I'll probably try something else first, because like I said, I'm not so excited about the diet. I feel like my psychiatrist has been the one to NOT mention Nardil, so I guess I just got the idea that if Parnate affected my badly, so would Nardil.
> Perhaps try Zoloft up to the max dose then?I guess Zoloft is what I'm leaning towards for my next trial, or a TCA. I've now gone off of Abilify (I have been trying it for the past few weeks, but it's causing some akathesia and extreme tiredness)... so I'm ready to move on to something new. Sigh...
> Lamictal being widely recognised as an augmenter. I was hoping you would find a greater response that AD (I was assuming of course you had found at least *some* small benefit from at least one AD in the pharmacopoeia).
Okay, I'll keep that in mind too. I've always liked the *idea* of Lamictal, always wished that it would work for me. It didn't cause any side effects. Sometimes I've wondered if maybe I didn't push the dose up high enough. I think I got up to 150mgs, but I've read about people going quite a bit higher than that.
> Lamictal has been effective as an augmenter for some treatment resistant patients. There are references I could find to support this, but it's a pain in the *ss to go and dig them out. I don't pretend to know the exact pharmacological mechanisms of this cocktail, I'm not sure anyone does know for sure, I'm just trying to provide what I think may be helpful suggestions to people who are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Obviously if you think a particular idea is rubbish feel free to disregard it.No, I didn't mean to suggest that I think it's a bad idea. On the contrary, I'm intrigued and your suggestions give me hope. I would love to be able to think that putting two drugs together that didn't work alone could be effective, because that would mean that I have a lot more options available. I guess I just don't understand it and I wonder about why my psychiatrist has never mentioned it... although he did mention the Effexor plus Remeron idea last week.
I'm just lost and confused because, like I've said, I've tried *most* antidepressants (and other types of drugs as well) by themselves. And I'm getting down to the wire, just trying to figure out what to do at this point. Trying to decide if I should try going back on things that I've already been on in the past and combining them with other things, or what. It's all so damn complicated. I just wish that I could get on something and stay on it and have it work and not have god-awful side effects. I've been going through this drug merry-go-round for years and I'm really sick and tired of it.
By the way, I'm currently on lithium and Seroquel, which is the drug combo that I've been on the longest: Seroquel for almost 2 years and lithium for about a year and a half. They help a tiny bit, but I'm dying to get off of Seroquel because it makes me sleep 10-12 hours a night. I tried to switch it with Geodon and now Abilify, but I can't tolerate either.
Anyways, thanks for your thoughts/suggestions.
Posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 19:50:33
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 10, 2006, at 17:15:34
>Okay, I'll keep that in mind too. I've always liked the *idea* of Lamictal, always wished that it would work for me. It didn't cause any side effects. Sometimes I've wondered if maybe I didn't push the dose up high enough. I think I got up to 150mgs, but I've read about people going quite a bit higher than that.
I was taking 200mg most of the time. I've been as high as 300mg and it made me very irritable and agitated. The 200mg dose also did this to me when I came off benzos. The effect of combining Lamictal with an AD may still be greater than either combined. Lithium is also an augmenter and I note you're already taking that. I'm not sure which has the greatest effect - a game of trial and error as ever I guess.
>I guess I just don't understand it and I wonder about why my psychiatrist has never mentioned it... although he did mention the Effexor plus Remeron idea last week.
Not all pdocs are aware of it, and of those that are not all use it for reasons known to themselves - my last pdoc was one of them. Encouraging to hear the pdoc speak of the Californian Rocket Fuel though. Sounds like it's worth a good try, especially with Lamictal if possible. The effects can be cumulative, and when used in a cocktail some ADs and mood stabilizers increase/decrease the sensitivity of certain receptors the other drug works on, thereby amplifying the effect of both drugs and possibly negating some unwanted effects.
>I'm just lost and confused because, like I've said, I've tried *most* antidepressants (and other types of drugs as well) by themselves. And I'm getting down to the wire, just trying to figure out what to do at this point. Trying to decide if I should try going back on things that I've already been on in the past and combining them with other things, or what. It's all so damn complicated. I just wish that I could get on something and stay on it and have it work and not have god-awful side effects. I've been going through this drug merry-go-round for years and I'm really sick and tired of it.
Same here and that's why I'm no longer pinning all my hopes on a pharmacological solution to my problems. I have other plans that interest me more right now, but I'm still keeping an eye on the meds scene in case I happen to need some chemical support in the future.
>They help a tiny bit, but I'm dying to get off of Seroquel because it makes me sleep 10-12 hours a night. I tried to switch it with Geodon and now Abilify, but I can't tolerate either.
Same here with Abilify - it gave me wicked akathisia too. Seroquel made me sleep the clock round when I was taking it with klonopin, but now it just seems to suffocate me with sedation and hardly helps sleep at all.
Good luck.
Q
Posted by yesac on December 11, 2006, at 13:00:50
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 19:50:33
> Lithium is also an augmenter and I note you're already taking that. I'm not sure which has the greatest effect - a game of trial and error as ever I guess.
I wonder about combining lithium with Lamictal and maybe also with an AD. I don't really plan on going off lithium. In fact, I wish I could take more. I only take 600mgs, which helps a little bit, especially with agitation, not depression so much. But 600mgs is about all I can handle. I tried taking 900mgs for a few days and I got really spaced out and cognitively messed up. Sometimes I think about trying to take 750mgs, as a desperate attempt at maximizing the positive effects.
> Encouraging to hear the pdoc speak of the Californian Rocket Fuel though. Sounds like it's worth a good try, especially with Lamictal if possible.Why Effexor plus Remeron though? I mean what about other combos? Like say, Wellbutrin plus Zoloft plus Lamictal or something? There are tons of possible combinations. I guess that's a good thing, but also a bit overwhelming.
> Same here and that's why I'm no longer pinning all my hopes on a pharmacological solution to my problems. I have other plans that interest me more right now, but I'm still keeping an eye on the meds scene in case I happen to need some chemical support in the future.
I'm curious-- what are your "other plans"? I too have started to try to come to terms with the fact that drugs might just not do it for me, and maybe I need to look more into alternative possibilities, not only for depression but also for ADD (drugs haven't helped me with that either).
I've been trying to meditation for the past couple of months, just a few minutes here and there, and also reading books and listening to tapes about meditation. It's supposed to be good for so many things, but so far I don't really notice any positive changes. Exercise is also supposed to help with many problems, but it's hard to exercise when you have no energy and feel exhausted most of the time, either from drugs or from depression or both. I've been in therapy for years and been in DBT for over a year. Neither of those seems to help me dramatically though-- just a little bit.
> Same here with Abilify - it gave me wicked akathisia too. Seroquel made me sleep the clock round when I was taking it with klonopin, but now it just seems to suffocate me with sedation and hardly helps sleep at all.
It's too bad because Seroquel is probably one of the best drugs I've taken. If only I could take like 1000 or 1200mgs. But I've been trying to get off it for the past 7 or 8 months because I just can't deal with the excessive sleeping anymore. Unfortunately, I haven't had any luck getting off it, and now I'm so depressed all the time that I find myself wanting to sleep a lot. In fact, it's the only thing I want to do. So there's this irony with the excessive sleeping situation.
Posted by yesac on December 11, 2006, at 13:08:08
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 10, 2006, at 19:50:33
Oh yeah... I've also been thinking lately about using Cytomel as an augmentor. But before doing that I guess I need to get on some antidepressant. Although, I've found myself wondering about its use alone, as in NOT augmenting an AD. You don't really hear anything about people using it by itself for depression, or in combination with other drugs that are not classified as antidepressants.
Posted by Quintal on December 11, 2006, at 18:43:27
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 11, 2006, at 13:08:08
>Why Effexor plus Remeron though? I mean what about other combos? Like say, Wellbutrin plus Zoloft plus Lamictal or something? There are tons of possible combinations. I guess that's a good thing, but also a bit overwhelming.
No reason that I know of not to combine Wellbutrin and Zoloft if you wish. Effexor and Remeron are just a more trendy combo I guess. The effects of Remeron on serotonin are quite mysterious and haven't been fully explained yet - maybe that's why pdocs are more eager to experiment with it?
>I'm curious-- what are your "other plans"? I too have started to try to come to terms with the fact that drugs might just not do it for me, and maybe I need to look more into alternative possibilities, not only for depression but also for ADD (drugs haven't helped me with that either).
I'm planning to go to Peru (or perhaps elsewhere) to take Ayahuasca. I'm very interested in it right now and I'm likely to get a lot out of the experience in my current frame of mind. This influences the medication I could take because the brew contains an MAOI.
>I've been in therapy for years and been in DBT for over a year. Neither of those seems to help me dramatically though-- just a little bit.
Isn't DBT mainly used for Borderline Personality Disorder? May I ask your diagnosis?
>Oh yeah... I've also been thinking lately about using Cytomel as an augmenter. But before doing that I guess I need to get on some antidepressant. Although, I've found myself wondering about its use alone, as in NOT augmenting an AD. You don't really hear anything about people using it by itself for depression, or in combination with other drugs that are not classified as antidepressants.
I have no experience with Cytomel but I did use Synthroid once to augment an AD without my pdoc's knowledge. I think it may have damaged my thyroid as the last test came back as being low, where it had always been normal before.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 19:41:44
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 11, 2006, at 18:43:27
Oh ANA antineuclearantibodies. Will say if the low thyroid is autoimmune or other things. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 11, 2006, at 19:57:07
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2006, at 19:41:44
Thanks for clearing that up Phillipa. I think that's what my GP tested me for when they came back normal. Maybe time for a re-test?
Q
Posted by yesac on December 12, 2006, at 13:54:21
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 11, 2006, at 18:43:27
> I'm planning to go to Peru (or perhaps elsewhere) to take Ayahuasca. I'm very interested in it right now and I'm likely to get a lot out of the experience in my current frame of mind. This influences the medication I could take because the brew contains an MAOI.
Ayahuasca? I guess I'll have to look that one up....
> Isn't DBT mainly used for Borderline Personality Disorder? May I ask your diagnosis?Yes, it was originally designed by Marsha Linehan for people with suicidal ideation and sometimes self-injury behaviors. But I guess someone decided that it needed to be associated with a diagnosis, and it therefore became known as a treatment specifically for BPD, even though that is not what she had intended. Many people still believe that it is a treatment only for BPD. This is not true. It can be useful for many diagnoses/symptoms, particularly those associated with depression, anxiety, bipolar, and trauma. But in all honesty, I really believe that some aspects of DBT could be useful for many many people, even those without a psychiatric diagnosis per se.
I guess you could say that my primary diagnosis is depression NOS. My psychiatrist and I don't like to get too hung up on diagnoses. I have a pretty severe, chronic, unremitting depression that also has some bipolar "features" if you will, such as extreme agitation and periods of hyped-up-ness and mind racing. I also have a lot of pretty severe attention problems and some social anxiety/uneasiness. Call it what you will. I just think that mental health/illness is much too complicated to try to reduce to a name or names, although I recognize that there is some use in diagnosing. Still-- there is just so much that we don't understand about the brain and nervous system. It bothers me to hear people oversimplifying mental illness, the way drugs work, etc.
Posted by Quintal on December 12, 2006, at 14:58:30
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » Quintal, posted by yesac on December 12, 2006, at 13:54:21
> Ayahuasca? I guess I'll have to look that one up....
There's some basic info here, although Erowid obviously isn't a medical site: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca.shtml
> Yes, it was originally designed by Marsha Linehan for people with suicidal ideation and sometimes self-injury behaviors. But I guess someone decided that it needed to be associated with a diagnosis, and it therefore became known as a treatment specifically for BPD, even though that is not what she had intended. Many people still believe that it is a treatment only for BPD. This is not true. It can be useful for many diagnoses/symptoms, particularly those associated with depression, anxiety, bipolar, and trauma. But in all honesty, I really believe that some aspects of DBT could be useful for many many people, even those without a psychiatric diagnosis per se.
>
> I guess you could say that my primary diagnosis is depression NOS. My psychiatrist and I don't like to get too hung up on diagnoses. I have a pretty severe, chronic, unremitting depression that also has some bipolar "features" if you will, such as extreme agitation and periods of hyped-up-ness and mind racing. I also have a lot of pretty severe attention problems and some social anxiety/uneasiness. Call it what you will. I just think that mental health/illness is much too complicated to try to reduce to a name or names, although I recognize that there is some use in diagnosing. Still-- there is just so much that we don't understand about the brain and nervous system. It bothers me to hear people oversimplifying mental illness, the way drugs work, etc.
>
>I have no fixed diagnosis either and I'm not a strong believer in it, though I know a 'label' can provide a feeling of security and belonging for some people - can also hope that there are effective recognized treatments I guess?
I've had CBT and counselling and I have wondered about DBT at times, but I doubt it's available in my area.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2006, at 18:22:16
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 12, 2006, at 14:58:30
Q so did you like the CBT? As that is used here the most. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 14, 2006, at 2:27:05
In reply to Re: Tricyclics » yesac, posted by Quintal on December 12, 2006, at 14:58:30
> > Ayahuasca? I guess I'll have to look that one up....
>
> There's some basic info here ...> I've had CBT and counselling and I have wondered about DBT at times, but I doubt it's available in my area.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding ayahuasca to Psycho-Babble Alternative and ones about CBT and DBT to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link to the latter:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20061210/msgs/713477.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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