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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jonathanupr on December 1, 2006, at 22:58:42
I've been taking ADHD meds for around 5 years now, the first 3 of those years I'd taken Wellbutrin and the last 2 I've switched to taking the CNS stims. The looming issue I've dealt with in taking ADHD meds has been a rise in an OCD disorder (with a bit of a raspy tinge of anger/irritability) that I have at times.... thus, to help with such I've tried the majority of SSRIs and a few anti-convulsants to ease such disorder.
What I've observed is, that the meds that inhibit reuptake of either nor-epinephrine or dopamine exacerbate the OCD disorder much more than meds that do not inhibit reuptake as much. Examples of this are: (1) the Wellbutrin made the OCD issue fly out of whack, thank god I found an SSRI or I'd have gone crazed with worry that I was something that I truly was not.......the Wellbutrin is noted to be such an NRI, (2)the first stim I took was Adderall, hah! the first day taking it I felt stimmed, and I drank a cup of coffee on top of that, and at the time I was not on any buffer med such as an SSRI or an AC, that was a 1 day trial where I felt a little too obsessive that a past drug addiction (mostly alcoholism) was going to come out full blown, so I flushed the meds, he heh. (3) I decided to give another stim a try a few months later after getting further diagnosed as having ADHD. This stim was Concerta, though before I went on it, I began taking an SSRI. This turned out decent and all went well until it started waning on me. There was a bit of OCD and irritability, but I was willing to deal with it. (4) due to the waning issue of the Concerta, I decided to switch over to Adderall again. This time I had a much different experience. After a few months of taking a 30 mg dose, I went down to 25 mgs on my request and things started to get done in my life (my interests in reading went up big time, and I was actually absorbing the material instead of reading a paragraph and having to go back and re-read it because I went to thinking of other things). Though, the Adderall was a bit more provoking on the worrisome side of the OCD, so I sought out another P-Doc, and began taking a GRI (in Gabitril) which helped immensely and still does in bringing down my irritability/anger that comes about from taking stims. (5) due to hearing a lot of good reviews on Dexedrine I figured I'd give it a try. Sad to say I felt immensely irritable and rageful on it, even at a low dose. I tried combinations of the Adderall at 20 mgs and the Dex at 5 mgs, but still the irritability and rage were ever lurking (I did feel like I was able to get my drive up to get things done, like writing and reading longer, but the trade-off wasn't worth it.......that's my brake in itself, the OCD/irritability are hellish deterents...and when over-doing a stim, ech!!! tis like a kid inhaling a whole pack of smokes, he never wants to touch them again). (6) next came Focalin, this was a good med, I felt creative again like I was on Wellbutrin, but I couldn't concentrate nearly to the extent that I could on an amphetamine. I've tried combos of the Adderall and the Focalin, just produces a bit of spaciness at the end of the day, and the OCD is a bit worse than just the usual dosing of the Adderall. (7)this is the biggest piece of luck I had, my P-doc gave me a script for a PM dose of Adderall, it happened to be a generic version, one produced by Barr. Since I've tried this, I've switched over to taking the generic version daily instead of the XR Adderall. Wow!! is all I can say in regards to the reduction of my irritability/anger/OCD that I had on the Adderall. The generic version is smooth riding without the piss and vinegar feeling that I get from the Shire version (Brand) of the Adderall. So pretty much I take around 20 to 30 mgs of the generic daily, depending on the day, 10 mgs in the morning, followed by 5 mgs every 2 to 3 hours (no drop-off and I don't have to worry about losing the concentration and focus that occurred during the 5th to 8th hrs of the Brand XR). I've tried the Brand SR and still the piss and vinegar (a bit more drive and it does last longer, so I'm thinking back to the Dexedrine, ah! it seemingly has more dextro-amphetamine than does the generic, as the l-amphetamine does not last as long...it seems to be a shoe-in to be more abundant within the generic version...just my take on it).
Now getting to the point of this thread I started, I'm thinking about trying Desoxyn. I've read up on it but really haven't found a whole lot of info of the long-term repercutions of its use on the dopamine neuronal network. Just a lot of negative info from propagandists out there. What I've come to see is, that the combination of dopamine/nor-epinephrine release with dopamine and nor-epinephrine reuptake inhibition aggravates the OCD/irritability issues that I have (which can be seen with the dextro-amphetamine, ritalin, wellbutrin, and other SSRI/NRIs I've taken along with the stims).
Now I was hoping some individuals may have info on Desoxyn's effects on the catecholamines (both release and reuptake inhibition, or just release), as well as experience with it, and so much the better if such individuals have a concomitant disorder such as OCD (I'd love to hear how the difference was between the Desoxyn and the other stims in aggravating such an issue).
Posted by notfred on December 2, 2006, at 19:14:08
In reply to Desoxyn for ADHD / OCD disorder, posted by jonathanupr on December 1, 2006, at 22:58:42
Desoxyn is metabolized into amphetamine. I never could tell a difference between dexadrine and
desoxyn, except length of action.
Posted by jonathanupr on December 5, 2006, at 22:50:37
In reply to Re: Desoxyn for ADHD / OCD disorder, posted by notfred on December 2, 2006, at 19:14:08
I took my first dose of Desoxyn today, and I must say that the difference between it and the other CNS stims is very positive. I've had very little rebound, no anxiety, more creativity and more energy. Very little irritability thus far (Dexedrine gave me the most irritability, piss and vinegar experience out of all the CNS stims). All of the other CNS stims exacerbated my OCD and irritability, but so far the Desoxyn has yet to do so.....I'll see after a week of taking it. I'm definitely glad I gave it a try.
Posted by psychobot5000 on December 7, 2006, at 15:36:55
In reply to Re: Desoxyn for ADHD / OCD disorder, posted by jonathanupr on December 5, 2006, at 22:50:37
I'm slightly amazed you could get desoxyn prescribed--most docs don't seem to want anything to do with it, if they're even aware it's a legal and effective treatment
My understanding is that it's supposed to have most of its effect from catacholamine release (and also serotonin release), as opposed to reuptake inhibition, but that for various technical reasons it's considered to (probably) have more toxicity than regular dexamphetamine. Some say it causes more mood-elevation with less cardiovascular stimulation and other side-effects, however. The relative lack of side-effecs allows abusers to take higher doses, though, which is part of why it can be more abusable, as I understand it. I've also heard it may have a longer half-life, making it more damaging to sleep than regular amphetamine.
I have no experience with it. I'm interested to hear it seems to be good for your creativity, since the other stims I've been prescribed seemed to me to suppress creativity, making my thinking more ordered and goal-oriented.
Best of luck!
Posted by jonathanupr on December 17, 2006, at 11:07:45
In reply to Re: Desoxyn for ADHD / OCD disorder » jonathanupr, posted by psychobot5000 on December 7, 2006, at 15:36:55
My experience with Desoxyn was mixed. It was very habit forming, I only took it 2 days to see the effects of it compared to those of other CNS Stims.
The positives:
-long lasting
-very talkative, easy to talk to people, easy to open up and converse about what I know.
-not very anxiety provoking at all during the dose, same with OCD.
*triggered a resurgence of a want to do things, and a resurgence of feelings from my past, resurgence of feeling alive. This mainly happened a few days after taking the Desoxyn. For a long while I've felt numb (partly I believe because of a D1 receptor antagonist in Zyprexa that I took a few years back, that zapped any feeling of life and excitement that I was having for it, my creativity and sense of aching went away.... Could be also because of other CNS stim use). Anyways its been shown that Methamphetamine with a single use can reactivate the D1 receptors.Negatives:
-after the effective dose wears off, the Desoxyn still sticks around, made me restless and I couldn't sleep until around 14 hours after the dose. Regular generic adderall has the advantage over the Desoxyn in this respect (as the generic Adderall wears off very quick and doesn't keep me awake even 3 hours after takin a dose that can allow me to concentrate).
-the irritability was exacerbated when the dose wore off, not good. So I was much more irritable during the PM hours than I was on the generic Adderall. (though the Desoxyn was better than the brand Adderall that had more dextroamphetamine in it, the brand Adderall made me more irritable than the Desoxyn, though I can't tell you about the long-run of using Desoxyn).
-the hang-up on the Desoxyn mainly was that irregardless of the negative side effects I was still wanting to take the Desoxyn because of the way it made me feel during the dose, a bit more habit-forming as I said earlier.
Overall: a very interesting and effective result of the Desoxyn was the reawakening I had with it (that is the reawakening of past feelings, and present feelings...felt like my soul was reawakened, spiritually that is). It is one of those drugs that I'd recommend taking one day per month to reactive the receptors possibly shut down by taking meds that would antagonize such receptors (which create lethargy and apathy). The major thing to watch for is to be very conscious of the habit forming effects of this drug, as it enabled me to perform at a very high level, and thus I wanted to keep taking it, regardless of the side effects.Sinceres.
This is the end of the thread.
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