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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 9, 2006, at 0:19:06
In reply to Re: Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CA, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 8, 2006, at 22:46:55
Doug:
My heart goes out to you. One thing you will quickly learn about the real world if you haven't already is that ... everyone has issues. One person may have depression, while another is an alcoholic, another has no self-esteem while abused as a child, or another may have an eating disorder and on and on.
You have to tranform your thinking. Instead of perceiving that you wasted four years of a college education while on AD's, you have to realize many people on no meds are unable to finish college in four years like you. Look how strong you are, perservering to get it done like you did.
You should be very proud of yourself.
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 0:42:04
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 9, 2006, at 0:19:06
Well said!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 0:42:31
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 9, 2006, at 0:19:06
I agree, you should feel very proud of yourself. Let me tell you my story (the condensed version.) I am 48 years old and have been on an MAOI for 25 years. When I was first put on it I was so depressed I had no desire to do anything. I would wake up every morning and cry because it meant another day of pain. Plus I was a hypochondria and suffered debilitating panic attacks. Then I finally got on medication. 3 little boys later I thank the med gods that be that I took that medicine. If not, I would be long gone.
I hope you find the peace without medication, I really do.JH
Posted by minimal on April 9, 2006, at 0:57:45
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 0:42:31
Funny thing: my situation is exactly the opposite. I look back on my undergrad days and my severe major depressive disorder and wish I would have had the insight to take medication and seek therapy then. I sometimes feel that I wasted my college years with severe depression. Since I graduated, I have sought therapy and medicine, helping me to reach my full potential and the upper echelons of apprenticeship for my profession. SSRI's (while they come with major side effects that I constantly struggle with) have given me the ability to function and perform at an optimal level. And believe me, I am not apologist for the meds. I wish there was a better option and I am always in search of one. I do not doubt your experience with the meds, but I want to state for any third parties that this experience is the opposite of my own. Off medicine, for me, it is depression that zaps motivation and even a will to exist: depression is the overwhelming preoccupation. The medication gives me the ability to preoccupy myself with academic work or a job that otherwise would be impossible. It does not come without its side effects but at least I am here.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 1:51:50
In reply to Re: Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CAREER » Doug_Saving_The_Team, posted by gardenergirl on April 8, 2006, at 22:59:18
> But you are graduating, right?
>
> ggyes, I should be graduating barring a failure of a class this semester, which I don't expect to happen
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 1:58:52
In reply to Re: Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CAREER, posted by bipolarspectrum on April 8, 2006, at 23:55:00
bps,
thank you for your thoughtful post, especially your points about this giving me the urgency to live. i will definitely check out your recommended reading. you are amazingly lucky that medication made you concentrate more and perform really well in school. I really wish that was the case with me. unfortunately, it's been nothing but poor performance after poor performance. i've reached a point where i want my old self, anxiety/depression and all. for me, achievement is EVERYTHING, and I'm DYING inside that I have not been the very best in school. It's KILLING my psyche -- my confidence has been shattered, and as I said, college WASTED. i have been more social on ADs than I otherwise would have been, but i want my old shy, semi-timid life back. i want all of the weird quirks i had because that's what made me unique and ultimately what made me so successful!! WOW THIS SUCKS!! If only the ADs did not destroy my academics and overall performance. Here are the effects I've had on AD's:
*poor concentration
*poor memory
*low motivation
*high apathywhich have all led to poor grades, despite large amounts of extra studying.
4 YEARS WASTED... i should be at some big ibank or prv equity firm... instead, what? wasted, nothing. s***...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:03:29
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on April 9, 2006, at 0:19:06
for me, it's like i know i have all this potential -- hell, i have the test scores and all the academic performance I could want pre-AD's. so getting a pathetic mid 2 GPA is like a pro athlete waking up one day and having the skills of a beginner!! SO PAINFUL! psychologically TERRIBLE! so i am supposed to be at a big private equity firm or ibank at this stage -- i'm not everybody else. if i was a stock, my price was compounding at 50% for 18 years of my life, until suddenly it lost 90% of its value over night and I've been on the OTC bulletin board on the edge of bankruptcy. I'M A MESS. F*** me... THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME!! HOW can some people get 4.0 level grades on ADs, but I GET SCREWED and get mid 2's? so unfair. i just can't believe people could do well on ADs given how terribly I've done academically while on ADs!
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:05:48
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by JaclinHyde on April 9, 2006, at 0:42:31
JH, thank you very much for your post. I am glad you have found peace on ADs. God, i wish i had peadce on ADs. but I feel so weak on them. I have lost all my confidence in my academic ability. I've gone from the trajectory of being a CEO at a fortune 500 company to unable to get a job!!! that's like being lebron james in high school, but getting in a car accident that ruins his career so he makes $0, no endorsements, no NBA, no nothing. THAT'S ME!!! oh, the anguish.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:09:07
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by minimal on April 9, 2006, at 0:57:45
the ADs have ruined my life. i'm very happy for you that ADs have helped you concentrate. but i would gladly take depression and anxiety back in order to perform well academically and in life. taking an AD but being a nobody vs. having depression and anxiety and being a fortune 500 CEO is not even a question. I take the latter every time. life is about fulfillment, and like i've said, i have NO CONFIDENCE. totally lost. why? b/c as I've said, the AD's have destroyed my cognitive abilities to the extent I can no longer perform academically. academic performance is a great predictor of work performance b/c it's really just a continuation. my ability to retain information is not there. it is TERRIBLE!! oh me... what a curse. i feel like my heart has been ripped out or turned ice cold.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:12:10
In reply to Re: Meds HAVE RUINED MY 4 YEARS IN COLLEGE, and CAREER » Doug_Saving_The_Team, posted by gardenergirl on April 8, 2006, at 22:59:18
where are the people who can really relate to me? the people who on ADs have performed poorly in school and/or work? I know those people exist, I've seen posts about it. I have read stories of young people and how ADs screwed with their memory and caused poor concentration.
oh s*** me...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
In reply to Re: There are plenty of successful people on ADs, posted by minimal on April 9, 2006, at 0:57:45
are there any others? seems like a lot of posters are lifestyle AD-takers. what about the large majority of AD users who are transitional -- do they not exist on this board? I've been on ADs for 4 years. that's 3.5 years too long in my book!! this medicated insanity for me must stop! it's ruined me and i've wasted my last 4 years.
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:44:09
In reply to ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
You are not alone.
Some antidepressants have made me feel worse instead of better. Some produced a syndrome of amotivation and apathy as a side effect.
What did your doctor say to you when you first told him about how you felt?
I like what Bipolarspectrum had to say.
You really are young, and you do have a long life ahead of you to build anew. People go back to school and switch careers in their 40s and 50s. In the meantime, try to live in the moment and not dwell on the past or project into the future. Take things one step at a time and try to compartmentalize your issues so that you can work on them one at a time.
It will take some time to grieve for the time lost, and it is healthy that you should. However, there will arrive a point where you will accept the loss and move forward. In the meantime, if you are depressed, you should understand that depression influences one's thoughts, feelings, and perceptions. It tends to make one think and feel negatively and perceive things as being catastrophic. That doesn't mean that you don't have anything to be be upset about. It just means that you might perceive things to be worse than how they would seem if you were not depressed.
How much anxiety are you experiencing?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:57:31
In reply to ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
I forgot to mention that, despite having had some antidepressants make me feel worse, I have had others make me feel better and bring me into a remission that allowed me to feel wonderful and to function at my very best. The difference was quite dramatic. I won't bore you with the whole story, but suffice it to say that it can take quite a few drug trials before you encounter a treatment that is a good match for your unique psychobiology.
Of course, I don't even know what specific mental illness, if any, you are suffering with. Perhaps you don't need medication at all. Had you tried psychotherapy?
For me, it has been a good decision to continue searching for the right medication regime, despite many years of treatment failures. I suffer from an uncommon type of bipolar disorder.
- Scott
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 7:07:57
In reply to ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
Hey there Doug.
Well, erm, I have lots of things to say! Okay, so well, I'll start with my experiences.
I can fully appreciate your situation. I took a semester off in my last year at university (I also went to a very good uni) because I was diagnosed with depression. Prior to that, well looking back I must have been depressed for a good 2-3 years before. Yep, I was also unable to concentrate, and I had no motivation, although that was without the drugs. I somehow managed to get myself through with a high 2:1 (I have no idea what that translates to in the US! I live in the UK).
Well, anyway I took ADs (prozac, effexor) whilst in the final stages of my degree, and I wasn't exactly very motivated, but it was my last semester and luckily my academic record was so strong that it didn't matter how I did. I then weaned myself off them, started teacher training, but got severly depressed so dropped out.
Then I worked for a year and a half - whilst on celexa. Boy that was a mistake. I didn't realise but the celexa made be exactly as you decribe - apathic, no contrentation etc. I feel like I wasted that year.
Now, I'm unemployed because I have moved areas to be with my boyfriend. I'm looking for work.
I also, like you, feel as if I should be somehow 'more successful' than I am at the moment - my fellow classmates are off in top jobs, doing PhDs, in law school. And I can't even find myself a low level admin job.
BUT there are a few things that help me feel somewhat better -- some days they work, others they don't!!
1) Remember that you have an illness. You are not weak -- its not your fault you are depressed. Would you be so hard on someone if they stuggled through college with a serious illness or disability? I think we do the best we can for ourselves. But remember this is a disease, an illness. Its not a charactor flaw.
2) Okay, so you don't have a job now or whatever. But remember that you are still so young!! There is plenty of time to get a decent job. Plus didn't most of the CEOs or whatever start out as the mail person, and worked their way up? Or they are entreperors who didn't even get a uni education. My eldest brother didn't even finish his A-levels (16-18 age qualifications here in the UK) and he is now a successful self made businessman -- if you measure success as a pay packet, then he makes himself £100,000/year, which is erm, around $150,000 I think. My second eldest brother didn't go to uni either until much later in life, and that was at nightschool. He's now working for Nokia as an development engineer. There are many paths to your chosen profession!!
3) I know its hard to not compare yourself to others in your class (hell, I do it all the time!) but remember that sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind. I mean, when you're 70, do you think it will matter that much to you that you didn't go straight into a high flying job? And as for your classmates, well, they might get fired at any time, they might get cancer when they're thirty, there might be a global recession...... so although you might view them as being 'ahead' now, later on, they might not.
4) There are many other ways of measuring 'success' in life as opposed to getting a good job. Are you a nice person? Have you travelled alot? etc etc. Actually, have you thought about travelling abit to broaden your horizons -- maybe now would be a good time to?
I honestly understand your frustations, I really do. I share some of them -- mostly, I feel as if I should be further along in my career, or at least, to not have dropped out for a semester, have a decent job etc. Its very frustrating, espically when you see your fellow classmates in really good jobs, and you know that you were just as good as they were.
To be honest, when you're depressed you can't concentrate anyway, whether you're on medication or not. In some people the right medication can help and increase concentration, but unluckily (and it seems you were too) it wasn't the case with me. Have you ADD/ADHD?
I think the bottom line is (and I'm trying to follow this advice myself) try not to be so hard on yourself. I understand your frustration, but when you're much older, is it really going to matter that much? Try and view depression as an illness (well it is anyway), and you are going home to recuperate for a while. I mean, I bet most of those people who are hedge fund managers or whatever will burn out anyway!!
Take care
Meri
Posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
In reply to ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 2:44:22
Hi Doug,
I'm in my 30's, and no where near the academic acheiver you are [i feel i had potential academically, but that is another story], but i totally understand everything you are saying, i am in the process of weaning off prozac, [on to st. johns wort, much milder], i too am frustrated with the apathy, loss of concentration, and just lack of drive in general.i have dysthmia, [low grade, "unrelenting" depression] and moderate ocd, but i am willing to take the chance of being med free, to reclaim my former self, i feel at times robotic, and also i have gone from being somewhat timid,[although very social] to a person with a distant, somewhat cocky attitude.
i agree with alot of the posters, meds can save lives, and for some create them, but i honestly, after 4 years also on meds, prefer my pre-medicated, driven self. i am not anti-med by any stretch, i still take klonopin and if neccessary i will return to an non-ssri med, but i think it is such a personal matter, only you can know and evaluate what is best for you,
i would try, [ with the help of a caring professional,] to do what you know makes you your most ambitious and creative self , but please keep all options open, don't feel you have failed if you must return to meds for awhile, you have a long and bright future ahead.but i just want to wish you the best of luck, and please know i understand everything you are saying, if given the chance to walk out of the pharmacy, [like i was about to]the night i filled my first prozac prescription, i would walk without looking back, take care.....john
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD? » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
I can say that medications had a definate impact on my cognitive skills and abilities.
I am suffering permanant side effects from the usage of certain medications.
On the other hand, univeristy can be tough, and a lot of very smart people struggle very hard in their final years. Its not as simple as to say that I was a genious in high school, what happened.
On the other hand, I know what you are talking about since I am taking 5.5 years to finish a 4 year program while by highschool peers are done.
Meds can fry your brain. The noradrenergic meds probably punch holes in your grey matter like the stimulants can via excitotoxicity (unsubstatiated suspicion :))
I've been off meds for a year (which is a scary thing do undertake all of a sudden in your final year of university), cognition can improve.P.S. you're probably freaking out cause its right near exam time ?? (but yes, I don't disagree with you)
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 11:41:25
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
"Its not as simple as to say that I was a genious in high school, what happened."
Sorry, that did not come out the way I wanted it to :) I guess I meant to say that I think it is a common thing for students in upper years to wonder why things are increasingly difficult.
(But on the other hand, I do believe that drugs can make significantly dull certain subtleties of learning and cognition.)
Linakdge
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:56:47
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:44:09
hi Scott, thank you very much for your thoughtful post. I am not experiencing any anxiety right now; basically the ADs have caused me to be more numb and out of touch than I ever thought possible.
Regarding AD combinations, I've been hearing that the "magic bullet" will come for 4 years now. People have told me it's all about what combination of medication and gave me hope by saying I will eventually find it. So what did I do? I kept changing medications for 4 years now and I still know I wasted the last 4 years.
There's no guarantee things will get better. The ADs might have permanently impaired my ability to perform. Thinking about it from the perspective of when I'm much older doesn't help now. Depression may influence my thoughts, but I've had four years to develop an objective perspective of what has gone on, and unquestionably I have wasted these four years. Four years makes up almost 20% of my entire life -- what a catastrophic loss!! And now I'm going home a failure, an education that with another semester would push it to $200,000, and so many goals left unfulfilled. People should know about the destruction ADs can wreak. They should know that there is not always a "magic combination" -- I've been in school and have an objective measure to follow performance by grades and there has been no improvement on different combinations, only worse and worse as it CHIPS AWAY AT MY PYSCHE and destroys my confidence and self-worth over time.
My pain...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:57:52
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by SLS on April 9, 2006, at 6:57:31
I have tried psychotherapy, and it worked for my OCD, but my OCD has been brought on by the ADs itself. It's a vicious cycle of seeking out new AD combinations, then getting a host of new destructive side-effects.
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 12:01:29
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 11:57:52
Sounds a bit like me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:06:23
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 9, 2006, at 7:07:57
Meri,
You have by far been the most helpful post. It is wonderful to hear from someone who truly understands what I have been going through because you have experienced the exact same thing. I know if I continue on ADs, I will only further waste my life away in NO achievement, NO progress and COMPLETE apathy. I am saving your advice and will keep it close to mind as I fight this WAR as I go off the EVIL ADs and try to REBUILD my life. It's SO PAINFUL -- I should be so many places right now that involve high achievement. But now where am I? I am forced to half-lies to fit in with my friends about where they are going to work after school. They are going to great training programs at ibanks, private equity shops and VC firms, but me? I tell a half-truth. I have to in order to save face. But that only reinforces how difficult all of this is because I have to deal with seeing people who I know I should be WAY more accomplished than, and know that I cannot get a job that some person with half the talent could get. I'M A SLAVE TO THE AD's, I'm TRAPPED in a life I should NEVER have led these last 4 YEARS!! Thinking about the perspective of being 70 is all great, but what about NOW? NOW is the worst part, and the most CRITICAL. It sounds like you and I will be going through similar things rebuilding our lives. I want to be BETTER NOW! In fact, I want to skip graduation ceremonies so I have an extra WEEK to get off ADs faster! f*** me...
But thank you Meri. You are the first who can really understand. Please stay on this board. I plan to be posting throughout the next year. Let's FIGHT this together!!
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:10:04
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD? » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by john berk on April 9, 2006, at 7:32:48
John,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. We are in the same boat in that we both would take back filling that first prescription. Oh the ANGUISH I feel and PAIN reliving that decision. I just KNEW this would happen. When I made the decision, I had an INTENSE MOMENT when I told myself this was a long-term decision, and it has turned into that, and a very destructive one at that. I have wasted a hugely expensive education at a top 5 university. Now I cannot go on to higher education at another top 5 education because I have the brains but my grades in university undergrad have been so poor there is NO WAY they could look past that. I have to LIVE with that! I have to LEARN all that I could have learned on MY OWN that I SHOULD have learned these past 4 years! I should know finance, statistics and accounting to an ADVANCED extent, but I do not because the ADs have handicapped me.
My destruction...
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by AD?, posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 8:40:59
Thank you for your post. A lot of smart people may struggle in their university years, but it was not supposed to be ME. It's one thing to struggle when not handicapped by ADs, but I AM handicapped by ADs, and I HAVE been STUNTED by the ADs, and there is NO RECOVERING the 4 YEARS I have LOST. I hope your cognition continues to improve now that you are off ADs. Can you quantify the improvement you have seen in cognitive performance by considering your academic achievement improvement while off ADs?
Doug
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:13:44
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by » Doug_Saving_The_team, posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2006, at 12:01:29
For me, the ONLY solution is to break out of this destructive cycle of choosing new ADs and BE MYSELF. I want MYSELF BACK! I want to have FEELINGS again, and the DRIVE, AMBITION and DETERMINATION I once had. F*** ADs!
Oh me...
Posted by greywolf on April 9, 2006, at 12:23:26
In reply to Re: ADs have ruined me. whom else has been HURT by, posted by Doug_Saving_The_team on April 9, 2006, at 12:12:29
" . . . but it was not supposed to be ME."
I think we've all had that thought at times. But I think you have to remember that old stock portfolio warning: past success is not an indicator of future performance.
I know straight A students who went on from high school to mediocrity in college. Whether it was low high school standards, heightened college standard, partying, or mental illness, no one really knows. I also know certified genius students in college who flamed out there or floundered in the business world. Every instance turns on individual circumstances.
You may be entirely right to blame ADs for your predicament. And someone else might correctly be thankful for the same ADs allowing them to do well in school, excel at a job, etc.
All I know is that you have to write off the past, concentrate on the moment, and fight to get ahead. If that means trying new meds or going it alone without meds, so be it. But you have many years ahead of you, and surrendering now because you believe ADs ruined it for you would be selling yourself short.
Good luck.
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