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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on March 1, 2006, at 12:02:18
Im pretty amazed at your success even with parnate usualy being iniatily successful,im at awe as too how well for you and wondering if someone is slipping me placebo.
No it works still the same,but want i wanted to ask is what exactly did you take on Nutrient wise i remember u mentioniong this the other day.
Also what i notice for myself with parnate is this........the drug acts superfast,i mean 30-40 mg in minutes can stop major depressive episodes.Now my my big drawback,this drug is becomming more and more resembalant for ME as recreational because of its half life,i mean its so short that if i fall asleep on a dose i wake up and very soon if not immediately after im looking for a next dose,and im not CRAVING a next one,im needing it meaning my sympomsts return full swing,trust me i tried will powering longer and i just suffer.
Id say its about 4 hrs of optimal effectivness,i cant have this i cant and donnt want to take these pills round the clock,or worry i have enough,i have to dose too much,and this is a good day,its like an aspirirn to a headache i feel relieaf from my symtpoms upon ingestion of parnate,but it fades in a few hrs and im feeling of course like a junkie of sorts needing to have this drug around me so much.
I know obviously this is the best im gonna get,but until the patch comes out literal on shelves i have no other choice,i used to use caffiene tabs to prolong the active life of parnate but i began to notice opposite effect and worsen depression so i stopped that.
how am i ever gonna break this circle of hell when everything stays the same,im on my way to my docs now having for the first time in my entire life finihsed almost all my meds too early due to a trip to ny,i felt good and again as usual got cocky,something i keep promising i wont do,im putting a rubber band on my arm next time to keep myself remebering how bad the BAD times can feel and to slow down always and take it slow and careful no matter how well or "normal" i feel.I have no idea how she is gonna react now,wish me luck.
Posted by TylerJ on March 1, 2006, at 16:19:06
In reply to Tyler....., posted by willyee on March 1, 2006, at 12:02:18
I do wish luck! I've been worried about you man. I and I pray for you and other here daily. I'm hoping you can get on the patch soon.
I'm still doing very well...it's been 3 wks now. I'm even sleeping good. This is by far the best I've felt since last time on Parnate back in '97.
As far as supplements go i'm taking:A high potency multi vit. w/ 100 mgs of all the B vits., high potency chelated multi mineral, Magnesium glycamine, niacin, zinc, chromium, vit E, vit C, omega 3 fish oil, ginko biloba , in the early afternoon I take more niacin, b compex 50 mgs. And at night I take a high pot. chelated cacium/magnesium..Supposed to help you sleep. Hey, i know one thing for sure they're not hurting anything and my doc is cool with them also. Let me know how your doc appoint. went. I wish you well my friend..you've helped me a lot, damn i wish i could help you.Tyler
Posted by tessellated on March 2, 2006, at 15:47:50
In reply to Tyler....., posted by willyee on March 1, 2006, at 12:02:18
Will,
I had a rather similar experience with parnate.
I found it hard to find balance with it.
I think a sustained release version would help greatly.
I think I found it to slow down a bit by ingesting with food.
But it ran away with me twice.
Initially I kept upping it from 60-100mg/day.
Initially 60mg was quite potent, but then I think some self regulatory part of me brain kicked in around 6mo's in. But I was pushing it. And found the withdrawl very similar to stimulant w/drawl-i.e. not fun. And man, i was chained to those little red pills/buttons.The drive, purpose, and passion was brilliant.
I was able to start a biz, file a patent, and turn others on with the emotion I felt and could share. It was a huge release. A fresh breath...Toaday I'm about as chemically balanced (only some traz) as I've been for about five, and I debate about riding the merrygoround again.
I think the most frustrating part of any psychoactive med is balance. On them it always seems to be a work in progress. Pushing here, pulling there, not knowing what tomorrow will bring. I'm 31 and wonder if its time for round 4 (started desipramine at age 13), or to just say no. I can barely remember a time when I didn't have the absolute need for chemical support. I do remember it was different not better, but the problems did seem less abstract as say carrying around 9-12 pills at all times like disapearing red buttons. Had to do with ambition, girlfriends, peer competition....
Willy, take this casually, but it did appear that you had a line up that was hitting the dopamine triggers pretty heavy. The problem is that nature screws us by making that one of the most volatile self regulatory systems. With any excess there is likely to be down regulation (tolerance). I suppose it keeps us hungry evolutionarily.
Aside from taking care of all the basics of nutrition, I might think about simply weaning or forcing yourself on breaks to inhibit your bod from over compensating. You know all this I'm sure... If that's impossible then think about doing something more drastic and cut some out of your regimine. You've got a lot of dopamine and gaba going: a great combo for me too, but heavy to get out from under. I think about taking tolerance breaks a lot myself and one option I did find to work was seroquel. This med antagonizes a lot of the receptors parnate excites. And though I found it to be stupefying at first, I had the reverse reaction coming off of it. Almost the opposite of coming off parnate(down regulate dopamine)-coming off seroquel seemed to up regulate those circuits. I'm only talking about a short period -a week-10 days. I find wdrawl always the worst over the first 4days, and then the sun starts showing itself again-a little.
When in the thick of it, its hard to know what is and what is not triggering the depression/anxiety? Often I took the med to help me function, but then after the major exogenous trauma had passed, I saw that the med itself created the anxiety/depression. And then it's like a chickn/egg routine, you cant stop because you fear going even lower etc. And parnate can be a pretty sour m&m.
It is a personal choice. What battles do you want to fight. I'm not myself settled; simply to stick with 5HTP/trazadone/supplements, or jumping back on the P-machine.
Regardless, it is sometimes good to come up for air.
Even just to try to remember who that happy kid once was...
8ed
ps:xyrem and parnate in my experience both activated my empathy trigger to the point i could fall apart at the site of any living being in pain. it drove me on some crazy wild fun filled escapades, and a lot of self awareness. but i must say not feeling responsible for worlds woes (not using empathogens) helps to reduce the intensity of life and my part in it.
> Im pretty amazed at your success even with parnate usualy being iniatily successful,im at awe as too how well for you and wondering if someone is slipping me placebo.
>
> No it works still the same,but want i wanted to ask is what exactly did you take on Nutrient wise i remember u mentioniong this the other day.
>
>
> Also what i notice for myself with parnate is this........the drug acts superfast,i mean 30-40 mg in minutes can stop major depressive episodes.
>
> Now my my big drawback,this drug is becomming more and more resembalant for ME as recreational because of its half life,i mean its so short that if i fall asleep on a dose i wake up and very soon if not immediately after im looking for a next dose,and im not CRAVING a next one,im needing it meaning my sympomsts return full swing,trust me i tried will powering longer and i just suffer.
>
> Id say its about 4 hrs of optimal effectivness,i cant have this i cant and donnt want to take these pills round the clock,or worry i have enough,i have to dose too much,and this is a good day,its like an aspirirn to a headache i feel relieaf from my symtpoms upon ingestion of parnate,but it fades in a few hrs and im feeling of course like a junkie of sorts needing to have this drug around me so much.
>
>
> I know obviously this is the best im gonna get,but until the patch comes out literal on shelves i have no other choice,i used to use caffiene tabs to prolong the active life of parnate but i began to notice opposite effect and worsen depression so i stopped that.
>
>
> how am i ever gonna break this circle of hell when everything stays the same,im on my way to my docs now having for the first time in my entire life finihsed almost all my meds too early due to a trip to ny,i felt good and again as usual got cocky,something i keep promising i wont do,im putting a rubber band on my arm next time to keep myself remebering how bad the BAD times can feel and to slow down always and take it slow and careful no matter how well or "normal" i feel.I have no idea how she is gonna react now,wish me luck.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 2, 2006, at 18:28:55
In reply to Tyler....., posted by willyee on March 1, 2006, at 12:02:18
If you have not tried Nardil + dexedrine you cannot say that parnate is the best you are going to get.
I sympathize with your plight; I had the same experience with parnate. Basically what you are looking for is a mild psychostimulant effect, and parnate is lousy for that because of its half-life.
Did you ever manage to try nardil for 6-8 weeks? I know you say it doesn't help or you don't like it initially, but I'll bet it would (especially with a stimulant) given enough time. Is suffering all this time really worth it?
Posted by tessellated on March 2, 2006, at 18:51:43
In reply to Re: Tyler..... » willyee, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 2, 2006, at 18:28:55
Mr. MAOI,
I think you have no nonsense logic, but you must admit, those are rather potent agents. Effective, I'm sure. Like a highball.
But don't you feel like it's periodically good to lay off hitin all em receptor complexes?
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 14:08:05
In reply to Re: Tyler....., posted by tessellated on March 2, 2006, at 18:51:43
I am not sure what principles dictates what the "good" receptor complexes are. Consciousness is the sum total of all neural activity. You cannot discretely isolate anything; that is a neuropsychiatric fiction.
SSRIs/SNRIs etc are just as "potent" as MAOIs and stimulants. They simply produce lackluster effects with a constellation of side effects that is often just as bad or sometimes worse than MAOIs or stimulants.
"Drugs and dosages are good if they make you well" --Dear psychopharmacologist academic friend of mine at prominent university
Posted by tessellated on March 3, 2006, at 16:28:17
In reply to Re: Tyler..... » tessellated, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 14:08:05
good receptors are active and alive and plastic, rather than decayed, dying, and brittle. specifically? science is likely to never fully understand.
consciousness is different from "mood", and is probably even something "more" than receptor activity, microtubule and such. other...mood/emotion is much easier to grasp as a subject than self/consciousness or dare i say spirit?
now the only other critique would be: re neuroplasticity, and though I know most AD's, now recently THC as well, assist in neural/dendritic growth and regeneration, i've yet to see such a study for opiates.
i do agree that narcotic w/d is prob easier than SSRI w/d.
so you think discontinuation syndrome is just a more appealing term?and yes, when survival is at stake, you must do what's necessary.
>>I am not sure what principles dictates what the "good" receptor complexes are. Consciousness is the sum total of all neural activity. You cannot discretely isolate anything; that is a
neuropsychiatric fiction.
>
> SSRIs/SNRIs etc are just as "potent" as MAOIs and stimulants. They simply produce lackluster effects with a constellation of side effects that is often just as bad or sometimes worse than MAOIs or stimulants.
>
> "Drugs and dosages are good if they make you well" --Dear psychopharmacologist academic friend of mine at prominent university
This is the end of the thread.
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